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by gus
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Author Topic: Spiritual tourism and consume  (Read 209 times)

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Online Johann

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Spiritual tourism and consume
« on: September 26, 2018, 11:48:02 AM »

Aramika   *

Dieses neue Thema (bzw. diese/r Beitrag/e) wurde  aus abgetrennten Beiträgen, ursprünglich in [Wat] Forest Monasteries in Sri Lanka , hinzugefügt. Für ev. ergänzende Informationen zur sehen Sie bitte das Ursprugsthema ein. Anumodana!
[Original post:]



Here is a comprehensive document on the subject.
Buddhist Forest Monasteries and Meditation Centres in Sri Lanka

Rakkhantu sabba devata!

Sadhu for the effort, Nyom gus .

Actually Bhante Nyanatusita Bhikkhu has been often "harshly" criticized by my person for his destructive social engagements and encouraging to spiritual consuming and tourism. Last here . Neither is it proper for a Bhikkhu to engage in social and enviromental activism, nor to serve for householders visa and travel issues. That's a paper for increasing the heat on earth. No need to speak about maintaining ones livelihood by using the stories of the sages and increase paper industries and forest-cutting as well. Dhammic protection looks different: Dhammischer Klimaaktivismus .

Upasaka Mohan Gnanathilake , btw., has surely much gain to get Nyom gus known, and maybe, since he is a German teacher, he has also the generosity to translate you and others certain things, either into Sinhalese or English.

* Johann : One, btw. , is of course also open to write in Sinhalese and to develope the place to be more accessible in this language.

It's possible necessary to tell that the long western influence had a lot of not so beneficial impacts on Sri Lanka, having brought it a lot of Miccha Ditthi, marxistic ideologies...

There is without much doubt a certain German/European/Jewish, merely scholar elite strongly marketing and controlling huge areas, not for the ease of those walking rightouse, not to speak of their marxistic and jewish/liberalistic idealogies they infuence huge parts mainly with what the Buddha called the Uposatha of the Jains which fits great to modern Nihilism and materialism.

At least this group has introduced selling of Dhamma into this world and make the Juwels their deal. Nothing to praise at all., especially of what the youngsters and yuppies are doing, still clinging on mothers skirt.

Anandajoti Bhikkhu has build up his own Dhamma trade.

Who ever does not play their games would have no chance to reach modern/western world, not to speak of practicing there with ease and without marketing, serving for householders enjoyments. Either they become the same (those are those who dwell in the west) or they return to places where the holly life still can be lived without corruption.

It was just some days ago that my person came accross similar ideas arising here in Cambodia and seeing the danger and effects clear, it was public adressed so that it reaches those in charge: Ministries pray to attract religious tourism .

Nyom my wonder about certain extrem seeming statements and might never had met someone speaking very openly. Doing such is at all of no personal benefit at all, but there are less having certain freedom and independency to do such. And it is not for the bad for those who are hardly rebuked but simply a matter of compession so that possible many may come to mind of what they are actually doing in whos name and with a punsh of apparent authority (Anscheinsvollmacht) to impose their ways as even standards of the Noble Ones.

Yet there are some sages and wise behind them, one would not easy met, since they are well imprisoned of them serving as income for those dealing with the Juwels.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2018, 12:26:46 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline gus

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Re: Spiritual tourism and consume
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2018, 06:54:30 AM »
Okasa,
 
In my opinion, if one engaged with both Dhamma practice and dhamma trade, then he accumulate big merits and big demerits at the same time, like the ancient Buddhist kings who engaged in dhamma practice and war both.

Yet, Dhamma trade seems a serious offence.

I remember venerable bhikkhu Nanananda had to resign even from some of his free publishers, several times, in order to abstain from an indirect relationship with Dhamma trade.

He stresses the below in his Dhamma talks.

"Dhammena na vanijam care"

Online Johann

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Re: Spiritual tourism and consume
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2018, 07:37:36 AM »
Short before late Bhantes Death (did not know him more near and his state) my person tried to get in contact with him and told his servant to ask him, if his Dhamna-gifts may be taken and shared for the Sangha and the good following. Althought my person was told that he is very sick but they will try, it's not sure if it was brought to him, but sure is that the heritage of great "Gurus" is usually use by the near "family" to make there own further livelihood out of it.

One may let my person know if having overseen something. That's the problem of many good teacher who thing that accepting certain dependency othside the Sangha and tend more on laypeople who possible take more care and a longer time. That's abig failure and the reason why great teachers lineages last mostly just one generation: why? they give the heritage to householder (to look for householders of them) and with it it's gone.

That is why even in a high state possition one should not make sacrifices downwardly in an improper amout. Compassion is good as long as proper. If compassion is put higher as ones duties (sila) than, what ever not timely gift either increases attachments or is of harm for many.

And it's not so that someone when doing a little goid and a little bad, even in balance, goes upwardly for long terms, not to speak of being worthy to be praised.

Making a livelihood by sharing Dhamma is most corrupt and destructive, yet not dependig on ones clothes (think on the many priests) but actually even more destructive for the Sasana is monks have no shame to do themselves, telk to do, or show signs of agreement, praise... They kill the juwels for their belly and are the most shameful subjects this fellowship may carry with it. (platant or subtile: see trade Trade with Dhamma, exchange "Dhamma-Dana" . If incapable to tread them not to harm themselves and many, then one should reject gifts of corruptions, live on real alms, possible not so pleasing and wish them well? Issa would be most worng here, or aversion toward those people. They are weak and do not understand of what they actually do, leading many downwardly, thinking that's compassion and good to preserve.

What ever Dhamma does not come along with dana, sila... this Dhamma is good for the oven to heat Samsara and an enemy for release of those who would have possibilities.

May this often repeated sharp words bring many to mind.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline gus

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Re: Spiritual tourism and consume
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2018, 06:43:12 PM »
Okasa bhante,

That's the problem of many good teacher who thing that accepting certain dependency outside the Sangha and tend more on laypeople who possible take more care and a longer time.

That's a big failure and the reason why great teachers lineages last mostly just one generation: why? they give the heritage to householder (to look for householders of them) and with it it's gone.

That is why even in a high state possition one should not make sacrifices downwardly in an improper amount.
I have thought many times why great teachers lineages last mostly just one generation. What I suspected as the reasons were the below.
  • Many great teachers had developed themselves in the path through an considerably independent practice but the student is highly dependent. So the student doesn't have the real experiences of the teacher.
  • Cunning students and dependents live with him extended periods and capture the power within the teacher's establishment. Real successor students have to step back.
  • Dependency on lay people. - some times for security and some times for gain.
  • Not having (impossible) the Buddha's Asayanusaya Gnana. - Difficulty of seeing the correct successors to convey power.
  • Non forest tendency. - Village monasteries are susceptible to the powers of the government, lay people and country's main sangha leaders/councils.
  • Not stressing the vinaya related to lay connections strongly. - Students little by little start comforting.
  • Expecting a extravagant obedience or dependency from students for every opinion of the teacher - Some good students leave then.

Are these acceptable?

Vandami.

Tags:
 

Plauderbox

 

Johann

Today at 09:00:29 AM
Nyom Roman.
 

Johann

October 20, 2018, 02:52:14 AM
Atma leaves for alms round, Nyom Villa.
 

Johann

October 17, 2018, 06:01:23 PM
May all spend meritorious/good and higher last hours of this Sila-day.

Sokh chomreoun (may well being be developed [by everyone])
 

Johann

October 16, 2018, 03:15:10 PM
Nyom Roman.
 

Johann

October 12, 2018, 04:13:16 PM
Good to see Nyom Norum.
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 10:38:10 AM
Maybe of support for lasting satifaction: Seeds of Becoming .
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 06:57:38 AM
When ever love arises, dislike will be it's end. Who ever seeks out for friends, will get his enemy. Why? Because not willing to leave home. May wanderer gus find the way to never return. Mudita

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:38:58 AM
Vandami.

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:38:22 AM
Nevertheless my courage of active participation  has been fallen down. Anyway I hope to come time to time.
Okasa dwarattayena katam sabbam accayam khamata me bhante.

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:37:11 AM
Okasa bhante,

I didn't accepted Dymitros invitation to start a Theravada forum, because I thought this forum is pure Theravada. Now I regret about it, yet think this forum is comparatively good.  I learnt many valuable things from you and grateful to you. Nevertheless my courage of active partici
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 02:20:29 AM
What ever one searches for, that he/she will find. Less are those seeing the nature of combined thing, leaving home and go beyond Maras domain.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:45:18 PM
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:39:12 PM
When one is born in outer regions ... your island has drifted away.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:30:00 PM
macchariya, a boarder hard to cross to the middle way, abounding home, sakayaditthi, doubt and rituals.

gus

October 06, 2018, 02:33:02 PM
However much one say, West is West, East is East.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 02:28:29 PM
Where ever there is east, there is west. And vici versa. Where ever there is nama, there is rupa. Where ever one seeks for a home, there he will suffer.

gus

October 06, 2018, 02:03:31 PM
West is West

gus

October 06, 2018, 09:56:42 AM
belief of kamma, gratitude, independence, honesty, devotion : These are hard to find in people
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 05:49:14 AM
Again, a latin proverb mit be useful: Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi , patisota is always harmful if not just one own defilements or having a proper stand to help. Sota is the virtue required to resist in borderlands.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 05:41:52 AM
If in a borderland it's better to simply serve and support the Sangha. It's not smart to seek for other householders to nurish on traced imperfections of something required to uphold, wanderer gus.

gus

October 06, 2018, 04:54:48 AM
Okasa, happy to hear such things reagarding kamma. Many monks I have met don't directly speak about kamma because they have been tired after practicing some years and now bit relaxed.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 04:17:26 AM
Such can be total kusala and total akusala or simply defuse. Set your mind right and be mindful, that nothing will be of harm for yourself and others.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 04:15:27 AM
There is nothing not permitted. Merits or demerits are the actors responsibility. One is full in charge of ones action in this Domain here, wanderer gus.

gus

October 06, 2018, 03:50:00 AM
Bhante, is it permitted to ask questions or post things on behalf of other/future people ?

gus

October 05, 2018, 09:19:32 AM
We have been advised like this:
"No matter however much monks reject you,
Never leave the place."
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 09:09:37 AM
It's good when wanderer gus takes a rest, turns to a lonly place, enjoys the merits done and find a good place for his mind and fixes possible open wholes when clear where he likes to go some hours later.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 08:59:03 AM
Wanderer Gus knows how foolish this statement is. That is not the way to get out of a hole.

gus

October 05, 2018, 08:42:59 AM
okasa,
falling down from a status is suffering.
So, if I could stay in the hell-being status from the beginning, then no suffering.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 07:33:20 AM
From a state of a young Bhikkhu equal tradition...to householder... ...asura (now) on the border to animal, peta, hell-state. It can go quick if not having firm nissaya.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 07:29:27 AM
Aniccam vatta samsara...

gus

October 05, 2018, 06:56:28 AM
Evolution:
Bhante subhuti =>
Upasaka gus =>
Deva gus =>
Asura gus.

In the future:
Asura gus =>
Peta gus =>
Animal gus =>
Hell-being gus ???

gus

October 05, 2018, 05:51:42 AM
Okasa, I think bhante thinks me as a patriot because of some content of my posts. But it is not.
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 05:41:33 AM
What ever one likes to, not touched like the moon, does not mean to praise what is blameworthy and vici-versa and to have metta not to let people run into hell if ways can be pointed out. Yet other choices at least are their. Be quick, your island drifts away!

gus

October 05, 2018, 05:34:15 AM
Okasa,
As long as I don't do exactly what you say, I think I'll not be able to make you happy or satisfied.
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 02:12:55 PM
If thinking that this is for sure, if delighting in believing that connected things are a refuge and give space to rest: one may do so. Ones own choice. When ever one stops to nurish inwardly, ouwardly path and fruits die. Good as well as bad.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:28:51 AM
If bhante didn't let the weak person to live in avatar/deva mode, then he will lose both openness and connection. Up to now I have secured at least the connection.
Vandami.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:22:24 AM
Yet I appreciate and pay vandana for your care and advice on openness.
Vandami.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:19:56 AM
Please forgive me  bhante if I have made you tired. I don't like to accumulate akusala by making a monk tired in expecting a naughty chicken to be a good duck.
Okasa dwarattayena katam sabbam accayam Khamtu me bhante!
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 11:07:06 AM
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 11:01:00 AM
Differnt asked "why is Bhante not happy, dwell not in outwardly seeming being not touched?" Because it would not only confirm and show sign of aggreement of unwise acts, but also very incompassionate and cruel. Also place for suspecting corrupt ways and invite others to follow the comfortable dwelli
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:54:12 AM
No one is able to make my person angry, which does not mean that he would not appear angry so to possible prevent from doing what is not conductive for liberation, even lead in lower states. Nothing to worry, but also no invitation to test it foolish since it could hurt one self and others.

gus

October 04, 2018, 10:46:39 AM
Okasa bhante, Isn't there at least single way to stay anonymous without making you angry?
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:33:12 AM
corr: "it's, the domain of the Noble Ones, is nobody's personal domain" there are no wards around fields for merits and no tickets to pay
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:29:31 AM
What ever Deva gus feels inspired. It's oneones personal domain and all giving is good in the distance of the brigh cool moon. One should not fear, should not be shy to do what is good and praised by the wise but be quick!

gus

October 04, 2018, 10:21:39 AM
Bhante, is that mean you don't like me to talk about higher subjects and like to talk about basics only?
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:02:12 AM
It would be more than good if teaching others a lot on the topic vandami (paying respect) and khamatu (asking for forgiviness) since unknown and not practiced here around this field of merits in compassion to former relatives, Deva gus.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:55:38 AM
...total no problem to dwell and lay down in the cool shadow to heal at all and no need to ask for pardon when intended for progressing and to get fit for the battles so hard to win.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:52:39 AM
But they would not feed them in ways which might look as nurishing relations for wordly sake directly, for people not understanding would think "look, he is herding, carry for his cattle, he wasts the gift of the land, the heritage of the Gems for his becoming and own gain. Understood? Total no prob
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:45:29 AM
Never would people of integrity send away pets, petas or sick, for they are not able to change for now but possible can gain of what they need to change.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:42:28 AM
If, just to think about, one lives deliberatly with sign showing a rejection of firm trust in kamma, one lives in nurishing the danger of falling into grave wrong views and give ways that others follow what is improper to do. Just to reflect. How ever wishing to do.

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