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Author Topic: Where are matured Sangha?  (Read 187 times)

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Offline gus

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Where are matured Sangha?
« on: September 27, 2018, 04:18:21 AM »
Dear Venerables and Upasakas,
I would like to raise a question which seems like silly but not really silly.

What is the sub-tradition/country-region where considerable number of elderly teacher sangha live in, in present days?

The Blessed One has said that the company of admirable-friends (kalyana mitta) is not a part but the whole of the holy life.

I wish even to reside in such a place/sub-tradition, if following qualities of the monks are met.

1.Considerable number of practicing elderly bhikkhus
2.Good Vinaya
3.Sangha Samaggi (meetings and compliance with each other)

May you all find a society of Kalyana Mittas !

Online Johann

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Re: Where are matured Sangha?
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2018, 06:28:54 AM »
Sadhu!

That is a very kusala desire if the desire is toward performing causes. If the desire is toward fruits it will cause nothing but pain. It's actually in accordiance the first lesson a disciple would receive. The foundation to grow in Dhamma.

If my person remembers right (one can reflect on the Maha Mangala Sutta as well):

1. Coming in touch with the good teachings (living in a period a Buddha and his heritage is present in ones (!) world.
2. to live in an Area where Dhamma is flourishing, e.g people at large follow right view (kamma, gratitute, generosity, parents, elders...)
3. being in accociation with admirable friends, not with Balas.
4. having done merits in the past.

At large, to answer, my person fears that the Savaka Sangha has possible left this world, possible still able to rescue and the less departing are not easy to see or to meet even if standing in front.

It's how ever wrong view to believe that the world is void of Arahats and similar.

Once, and only then, one has gained the change of ancestorship one self, one, and only then, one is able to consciously meet the ideal Sangha. Being part of the world it's always merely guessing, hope, desire, luck to meet the Noble Ones or "Mara".

Does Nyom gus understands the message?
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline gus

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Re: Where are matured Sangha?
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2018, 07:16:09 AM »
Okasa Bhante,

Actually I'm not seeking for Arahants at once. I know it is impossible to distinguish ariyas by a puthujjana.

I just need to be in a good sangha society in which there is space for Ariya sangha if there are any (or at least good sangha).

Briefly: To live on a Ariya ground.

Metta.

Online Johann

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Re: Where are matured Sangha?
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2018, 07:32:38 AM »
In short Nyom gus : Without leaving home, such is not possible. Does Nyom understand the whole of this repeated message? A matter of upanissayapaccayena (strong condition causes), which is of course not determined but always open to change. Leaving house is required to see the Tathagata (his Dhamma and his Sangha). Seeing the Dhamma/Tathagata one has left house. Ready or still not?

One being in the middle of a "Buddhafield", if still maintaining house, one is not able to recognize. Giving it a try, to abond all 5 (6) kinds of maccharia is the prerequisite to be able to see the Ariya Ground and dwell in it.

If Nyom might give up his fine-material being and try to return here in a human existence, it's easier to understand Dhamma, easier to penetrate Dukkha and easier not being under the leader of the Devas, Mara.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2018, 07:52:20 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline gus

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Re: Where are matured Sangha?
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2018, 07:51:43 AM »
Okasa Bhante,

If one is ready to leave home, then ?

If he ordains in a wrong place or observes nissaya under a wrong upajjhaya, then he will have to spend 5 years to be independent and go to a good place.

Shouldn't one think before leap?

Vandami !

Online Johann

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Re: Where are matured Sangha?
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2018, 09:29:48 AM »
Nyom gus ,

leaving a house to another is what most do when the ordain. Only if Seeing another, they leave.
Also leaving house might be not proper understood. (Aside of this one might be right, but remember the story of Maha Kassapa)

Let my person explain it later verbal and maybe Nyom is able to appear as human and in proper ways here as well till then.

A housholder will/would take refuge/ordain under householders, a pabbajita is of course not able to ordain under householders, and yes it's difficult to find a complete Sangha of Savakas who are not fallen into the live of householders. Very difficult. Nevertheless, leaving home under the Tripple Gems is still possible and this fist step requires just a single proper person and yes, the risk that no new house will ever be reacged anymore. Ready to leave home (taking the sense and their objects and all arising with it for real)?
« Last Edit: September 27, 2018, 10:09:30 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline gus

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Re: Where are matured Sangha?
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2018, 05:24:07 PM »
Okasa,
Only if Seeing another, they leave.
Also leaving house might be not proper understood.

the risk that no new house will ever be reacged anymore.
I think I should keep strengthening the full-faith in kamma in order to maintain the readiness of mind for facing anything.

Vandami.

Online Johann

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Re: Where are matured Sangha?
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2018, 06:30:56 PM »
Yes. It's only about gaining right view. Effort (samma) turns around speech, deeds, livelihood and right view. Not samadhi. Makes no sense. That comes by it self one virtue is complete. As a householder generosity, all what works against the 5 (6) kinds of macchariya, is in addition importand.

May Nyom tries to give such simple things as given face (vanna macchariya) and Name (family macchariya), th
ake on a human birth here (leave the states of low Devas and Asuras of common internet-places), and it might be a first step of being able to get the heart open to hear pabbajito-Dhamma, having sacrificed this thought but useless protection.

It's now late and Atma leaves it to Nyom gus and nearly no internet-connection (hard to open a page and post). It's surfingtime in the cities...

Only short on "What should we do when dying": That's propably to late, but good to reflect that it could be next moment, to get not hold back by things that will be lost anyway and to start to learn "dying".

There is by the way a good place to formal request Dhamma-talks. This "silas" help a lot. Don't forget, as my person things he knows well, this world here is not different as to come to a monastery in more material ārāmaṃ/world/vihāre.

* Johann : (May Nyom guide other lay people who really do not know things at all with that what he had learned by his traditional ancestors, of what is proper, not usuall, cool, or modern. If Nyom is prepared, Atma will talk 48h till it may be understood. No problem.)
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Tags:
 

Plauderbox

 

Johann

October 12, 2018, 04:13:16 PM
Good to see Nyom Norum.
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 10:38:10 AM
Maybe of support for lasting satifaction: Seeds of Becoming .
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 06:57:38 AM
When ever love arises, dislike will be it's end. Who ever seeks out for friends, will get his enemy. Why? Because not willing to leave home. May wanderer gus find the way to never return. Mudita

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:38:58 AM
Vandami.

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:38:22 AM
Nevertheless my courage of active participation  has been fallen down. Anyway I hope to come time to time.
Okasa dwarattayena katam sabbam accayam khamata me bhante.

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:37:11 AM
Okasa bhante,

I didn't accepted Dymitros invitation to start a Theravada forum, because I thought this forum is pure Theravada. Now I regret about it, yet think this forum is comparatively good.  I learnt many valuable things from you and grateful to you. Nevertheless my courage of active partici
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 02:20:29 AM
What ever one searches for, that he/she will find. Less are those seeing the nature of combined thing, leaving home and go beyond Maras domain.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:45:18 PM
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:39:12 PM
When one is born in outer regions ... your island has drifted away.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:30:00 PM
macchariya, a boarder hard to cross to the middle way, abounding home, sakayaditthi, doubt and rituals.

gus

October 06, 2018, 02:33:02 PM
However much one say, West is West, East is East.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 02:28:29 PM
Where ever there is east, there is west. And vici versa. Where ever there is nama, there is rupa. Where ever one seeks for a home, there he will suffer.

gus

October 06, 2018, 02:03:31 PM
West is West

gus

October 06, 2018, 09:56:42 AM
belief of kamma, gratitude, independence, honesty, devotion : These are hard to find in people
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 05:49:14 AM
Again, a latin proverb mit be useful: Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi , patisota is always harmful if not just one own defilements or having a proper stand to help. Sota is the virtue required to resist in borderlands.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 05:41:52 AM
If in a borderland it's better to simply serve and support the Sangha. It's not smart to seek for other householders to nurish on traced imperfections of something required to uphold, wanderer gus.

gus

October 06, 2018, 04:54:48 AM
Okasa, happy to hear such things reagarding kamma. Many monks I have met don't directly speak about kamma because they have been tired after practicing some years and now bit relaxed.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 04:17:26 AM
Such can be total kusala and total akusala or simply defuse. Set your mind right and be mindful, that nothing will be of harm for yourself and others.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 04:15:27 AM
There is nothing not permitted. Merits or demerits are the actors responsibility. One is full in charge of ones action in this Domain here, wanderer gus.

gus

October 06, 2018, 03:50:00 AM
Bhante, is it permitted to ask questions or post things on behalf of other/future people ?

gus

October 05, 2018, 09:19:32 AM
We have been advised like this:
"No matter however much monks reject you,
Never leave the place."
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 09:09:37 AM
It's good when wanderer gus takes a rest, turns to a lonly place, enjoys the merits done and find a good place for his mind and fixes possible open wholes when clear where he likes to go some hours later.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 08:59:03 AM
Wanderer Gus knows how foolish this statement is. That is not the way to get out of a hole.

gus

October 05, 2018, 08:42:59 AM
okasa,
falling down from a status is suffering.
So, if I could stay in the hell-being status from the beginning, then no suffering.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 07:33:20 AM
From a state of a young Bhikkhu equal tradition...to householder... ...asura (now) on the border to animal, peta, hell-state. It can go quick if not having firm nissaya.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 07:29:27 AM
Aniccam vatta samsara...

gus

October 05, 2018, 06:56:28 AM
Evolution:
Bhante subhuti =>
Upasaka gus =>
Deva gus =>
Asura gus.

In the future:
Asura gus =>
Peta gus =>
Animal gus =>
Hell-being gus ???

gus

October 05, 2018, 05:51:42 AM
Okasa, I think bhante thinks me as a patriot because of some content of my posts. But it is not.
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 05:41:33 AM
What ever one likes to, not touched like the moon, does not mean to praise what is blameworthy and vici-versa and to have metta not to let people run into hell if ways can be pointed out. Yet other choices at least are their. Be quick, your island drifts away!

gus

October 05, 2018, 05:34:15 AM
Okasa,
As long as I don't do exactly what you say, I think I'll not be able to make you happy or satisfied.
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 02:12:55 PM
If thinking that this is for sure, if delighting in believing that connected things are a refuge and give space to rest: one may do so. Ones own choice. When ever one stops to nurish inwardly, ouwardly path and fruits die. Good as well as bad.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:28:51 AM
If bhante didn't let the weak person to live in avatar/deva mode, then he will lose both openness and connection. Up to now I have secured at least the connection.
Vandami.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:22:24 AM
Yet I appreciate and pay vandana for your care and advice on openness.
Vandami.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:19:56 AM
Please forgive me  bhante if I have made you tired. I don't like to accumulate akusala by making a monk tired in expecting a naughty chicken to be a good duck.
Okasa dwarattayena katam sabbam accayam Khamtu me bhante!
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 11:07:06 AM
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 11:01:00 AM
Differnt asked "why is Bhante not happy, dwell not in outwardly seeming being not touched?" Because it would not only confirm and show sign of aggreement of unwise acts, but also very incompassionate and cruel. Also place for suspecting corrupt ways and invite others to follow the comfortable dwelli
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:54:12 AM
No one is able to make my person angry, which does not mean that he would not appear angry so to possible prevent from doing what is not conductive for liberation, even lead in lower states. Nothing to worry, but also no invitation to test it foolish since it could hurt one self and others.

gus

October 04, 2018, 10:46:39 AM
Okasa bhante, Isn't there at least single way to stay anonymous without making you angry?
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:33:12 AM
corr: "it's, the domain of the Noble Ones, is nobody's personal domain" there are no wards around fields for merits and no tickets to pay
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:29:31 AM
What ever Deva gus feels inspired. It's oneones personal domain and all giving is good in the distance of the brigh cool moon. One should not fear, should not be shy to do what is good and praised by the wise but be quick!

gus

October 04, 2018, 10:21:39 AM
Bhante, is that mean you don't like me to talk about higher subjects and like to talk about basics only?
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:02:12 AM
It would be more than good if teaching others a lot on the topic vandami (paying respect) and khamatu (asking for forgiviness) since unknown and not practiced here around this field of merits in compassion to former relatives, Deva gus.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:55:38 AM
...total no problem to dwell and lay down in the cool shadow to heal at all and no need to ask for pardon when intended for progressing and to get fit for the battles so hard to win.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:52:39 AM
But they would not feed them in ways which might look as nurishing relations for wordly sake directly, for people not understanding would think "look, he is herding, carry for his cattle, he wasts the gift of the land, the heritage of the Gems for his becoming and own gain. Understood? Total no prob
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:45:29 AM
Never would people of integrity send away pets, petas or sick, for they are not able to change for now but possible can gain of what they need to change.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:42:28 AM
If, just to think about, one lives deliberatly with sign showing a rejection of firm trust in kamma, one lives in nurishing the danger of falling into grave wrong views and give ways that others follow what is improper to do. Just to reflect. How ever wishing to do.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:36:03 AM
What ever one does, holds as refuge or abounds, either good or bad refuge, one does for one self. Ones own choices, ones own fruits, ones own limitations, hindrences.

gus

October 04, 2018, 09:28:15 AM
Khamatu me bhante!
My previous  post was this.
"Please forgive me and give birth to kindness ao as to let me live here anonymous "
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:21:35 AM
... doing so based on gratitude without just trading in giving, or out of duty in a relation one resits, one is able to get not only to the borders, but into Noble ones domain.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:19:27 AM
And to put much into such sacrifies of giving ones honor, ones dwelling, ones source of food (family), one possession (even intelectual), the Dhamma one has made his own

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