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Author Topic: Don't say that, Ananda, don't say that !  (Read 115 times)

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Offline gus

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Don't say that, Ananda, don't say that !
« on: September 29, 2018, 10:05:39 PM »
If a great person like venerable Ananda didn't fully understand the value of Kalyana Mittas, then how can present day people do?

Offline Johann

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Re: Don't say that, Ananda, don't say that !
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2018, 12:43:27 AM »
Thought there are those who have the quality of being hearing, totaly greatful on advices and having much trust.

This ability in it's form also requires the path winning, only then doubt falls. Something to consider. And leaving all of which limits effort behind to gain even higher paths.

Ven. Ananda, for the most, appeared merely as someone with saddha-carita. Someone how for the most needs to lose his "refuge", and no other outside to find, fist so that starting to not only honor, but put the taught into action.

Path and Fruits, require that both come together, Dhamma & Dukkha. Only when both is graspable, then one actually follows, having a reason and a way to escape.

Many people have a lot of merits and don't feel dependend, having such as google and Mara as their friends, feel fine in artificially rescure-nets, feeling fine not to know who feeds them and what intentions are behind, are grateful just for kāmaguṇa.

May Deva gus not forgets that this path is akāliko, independend of time, and that tendency away from babbamittas tiward kalyāṇamittas is a matter of nurishment, a matter of upanissayapaccayena.

To find association with good friends, reqires sacca. But if not willing to leave home, house (refuge in kama and bhava), how possible ever meet such relations, visting one house after another, fear in loosen the relations to poision, althought knowing by intellect.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline gus

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Re: Don't say that, Ananda, don't say that !
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2018, 01:08:17 AM »
Okasa,

Actually I posted above to show our gratitude to the Buddha's perfect advises, and the way the Buddha had corrected the ideas of great disciples.

The 'kalyana mitta samsevana' is not actually a necessary part, but the whole.

Vandami.

Offline Johann

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Re: Don't say that, Ananda, don't say that !
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2018, 01:11:39 AM »
The first and fundamental protection, blessing for ways upward and beyond:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

Asevanā ca bālānaṃ paṇḍitānaṃ ca sevanā,
Pūjā ca pūjanīyānaṃ etaṃ maṅgalamuttamaṃ.


Not consorting with fools,
consorting with the wise,
paying homage to those worthy of homage:
   This is the highest protection.

Quote from: Deva Gus
The 'kalyana mitta samsevana' is not actually a necessary part, but the whole.

 If otherwise, the Buddha would have founded google, books and would not had that much burden to establish his religion by forming the Sangha.

Yes.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline gus

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Re: Don't say that, Ananda, don't say that !
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2018, 01:28:03 AM »
Yet many practitioners have a difficulty in distinguishing between when to depend and when to be independent, or how to depend and how to be independent.

Offline Johann

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Re: Don't say that, Ananda, don't say that !
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2018, 02:11:24 AM »
Religion, a word borrowed from west, mean re-binding. Refuge means binding. To "ordinate" means bind.

There is nearly no possibility without strong binding, strong dependency of what pulls toward liberation.

Today there are many advertising for their livelihood with pseodo-liberalism, selling people "you can", make people depending with truth of those actually having won the path, why they are fare from it, consuming in houses, by "make your self a island". That's the trick of Mara, to bind people all the more.

For a householder it's difficult, since this religion has no formal dependency between Bhikkhus and householders. Why? Because it brings troubles if bond at house and bond to liberation at the same time. Yet there are many traditions formal householders have adopted to bind themselves, which is not an formal obligation, to the Sangha, formost by putting nurishment into this relation. Yet serial rules protect Monks and the Sangha to get not pulled into households.

Now, as many desire such bondage and that there are many monks overestimate their liberality and independency, lighten respect toward Vinaya, which protects them not to fall back in the bondage of houselive, nearly the whole heritage has already given up for mainatining households, keeping sensuality and becoming to highest.

Once having reached stream, and only then, one has become independent from all other refuges. Only once one has reached Arahataphala, one has become independent of all refuges, even of admirable friends and the Buddha.

That is something one should think with much sacca about.

This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline gus

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Re: Don't say that, Ananda, don't say that !
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2018, 03:19:10 AM »
Turn away from everything. Develop nibbidā (dispassion) from day to day – we have to develop this from the beginning – to learn to delight in solitude – if one is to die alone, one has to learn to live alone. Study, stay in a suitable place under a teacher.

There is a danger in solitude wrongly grasped, if one is unhappy or happy to receive visitors, or if one is unhappy or happy not to receive visitors, learn to see that all these mental states as dukkha.

Living in solitude in the forest is very good because one feels close to the Buddha and his early disciples. Having had the good kamma to live in such conditions, one has to reflect wisely and strive while one is young. Soon one will be old and not able to practise in the same way. If any internal disturbances arise, don’t neglect to consult with a kalyāṇamitta. Sometimes things are locked up inside and it needs discussion to bring it out.

In the first years, there must be solitude and the chance for complete application to practice so that one can fulfil indriyasaṁvara (sense restraint) and also to leave nothing incomplete in one’s vinaya training and duties to one’s teacher. One’s present residence is a result of one’s kamma, so one has to work out ways and means to overcome one’s problems.

The Saṅgha is in decline, so one has to make the effort oneself. As long as one is making the effort, paṭisota (against the stream), one is doing the proper thing as a member of the Saṅgha. Even if the whole Saṅgha is corrupt, one knows at least one person is making the effort.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 03:24:20 AM by gus »

Offline Johann

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Re: Don't say that, Ananda, don't say that !
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2018, 11:36:07 AM »
Does Deva gus know the teaching to Ven. Upāli, who desired to dwell alone?

Only for one who already developed samma samadhi, only for one who has abound home and who will not return to this material world, solitude 8s sutiable, of benefit.

Who ever turns away from kalyanamitta before this time will possible end like the rabbit who thought to follow the elephant.

As Bhante said. There are "many" who run away form their duties toward teacher, Sangha, fellows, frustrated, angry... some of the seek refuge in lay people, some become hermits (full of desire, aversion and still much ignorance).

If one still depends on ones society, nurishes from this community, has duties. If not doing them but receive the fruits, one is like someone missusing the compassion of others, like a citizen who do not pay tax.

The same counts for those how could not develop the path to a degree where ther is no more raw desire after sensuality, after becoming.

Defilements can also lead into solitude. So one should not think that Noble One are only fond far away in the forest, but possible far away from ones Upanissaya, even if next and near.

And one more thing, if faith into a tradition breaks down, if people think it makes no sense to care about something old and soon to decay, wouldn't it not like is abounding ones parents as soon as they might no more help directly but now require help?

So one should be careful to do not develope ingraditute and ignorance, because ones own sankharas or resolves are actually the same. Look at modern states who cares about old thing... nobody likes to abound one possibility for pleasure, or lets say less...

Better serve laypeople, better serve solitude... laypeople and their monks are equal, have same inclinations, are possible some of gratitude, or some who just consume their merits away and call others to join the food given through parents heritage.

It's easy to turn away from decaying, but if the duty is not done, one actually stays caught, grasp something else that is likewise or even more worse.

As the Buddha said, and the monks didn't enjoy this talk at all: nibbidā needs to be devoloped in regard of the percepition of nibbana as well.

If no desire toward this or that, where does one takes a stand, where does one dwell, go or leave?
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Re: Don't say that, Ananda, don't say that !
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2018, 11:56:05 AM »

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa


'Wenn da irgend welche sich gut verhaltenden Gefährten und Anhänger des schlichten Lebens sind, die jetzt kommen sollten, mögen sie kommen; und mögen die sich gut verhaltenden Gefährten und Anhänger des schlichten Lebens, die gekommen sind, in Behaglichkeit leben'

There is a reason why this place does not carry the name, this domain does not have the name saṅgha, but saṅghaṁ. For only what is sacrified toward release bring one the fuits. If ārammaṇaṃ is towards the fruits rather than causes, one focus on being, results rather then giving the conditions, how should it ever appear for one?

Wouldn't one not grasps after what he knows, be able to indentify? Sign, sound, smel... idea where neither Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha can be found...

And what if sacrificing this? Wouldn't Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha not suddenly appear?

Only one who has left home behind would know.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Tags:
 

Plauderbox

 

Johann

October 12, 2018, 04:13:16 PM
Good to see Nyom Norum.
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 10:38:10 AM
Maybe of support for lasting satifaction: Seeds of Becoming .
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 06:57:38 AM
When ever love arises, dislike will be it's end. Who ever seeks out for friends, will get his enemy. Why? Because not willing to leave home. May wanderer gus find the way to never return. Mudita

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:38:58 AM
Vandami.

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:38:22 AM
Nevertheless my courage of active participation  has been fallen down. Anyway I hope to come time to time.
Okasa dwarattayena katam sabbam accayam khamata me bhante.

gus

October 07, 2018, 03:37:11 AM
Okasa bhante,

I didn't accepted Dymitros invitation to start a Theravada forum, because I thought this forum is pure Theravada. Now I regret about it, yet think this forum is comparatively good.  I learnt many valuable things from you and grateful to you. Nevertheless my courage of active partici
 

Johann

October 07, 2018, 02:20:29 AM
What ever one searches for, that he/she will find. Less are those seeing the nature of combined thing, leaving home and go beyond Maras domain.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:45:18 PM
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:39:12 PM
When one is born in outer regions ... your island has drifted away.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 11:30:00 PM
macchariya, a boarder hard to cross to the middle way, abounding home, sakayaditthi, doubt and rituals.

gus

October 06, 2018, 02:33:02 PM
However much one say, West is West, East is East.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 02:28:29 PM
Where ever there is east, there is west. And vici versa. Where ever there is nama, there is rupa. Where ever one seeks for a home, there he will suffer.

gus

October 06, 2018, 02:03:31 PM
West is West

gus

October 06, 2018, 09:56:42 AM
belief of kamma, gratitude, independence, honesty, devotion : These are hard to find in people
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 05:49:14 AM
Again, a latin proverb mit be useful: Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi , patisota is always harmful if not just one own defilements or having a proper stand to help. Sota is the virtue required to resist in borderlands.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 05:41:52 AM
If in a borderland it's better to simply serve and support the Sangha. It's not smart to seek for other householders to nurish on traced imperfections of something required to uphold, wanderer gus.

gus

October 06, 2018, 04:54:48 AM
Okasa, happy to hear such things reagarding kamma. Many monks I have met don't directly speak about kamma because they have been tired after practicing some years and now bit relaxed.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 04:17:26 AM
Such can be total kusala and total akusala or simply defuse. Set your mind right and be mindful, that nothing will be of harm for yourself and others.
 

Johann

October 06, 2018, 04:15:27 AM
There is nothing not permitted. Merits or demerits are the actors responsibility. One is full in charge of ones action in this Domain here, wanderer gus.

gus

October 06, 2018, 03:50:00 AM
Bhante, is it permitted to ask questions or post things on behalf of other/future people ?

gus

October 05, 2018, 09:19:32 AM
We have been advised like this:
"No matter however much monks reject you,
Never leave the place."
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 09:09:37 AM
It's good when wanderer gus takes a rest, turns to a lonly place, enjoys the merits done and find a good place for his mind and fixes possible open wholes when clear where he likes to go some hours later.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 08:59:03 AM
Wanderer Gus knows how foolish this statement is. That is not the way to get out of a hole.

gus

October 05, 2018, 08:42:59 AM
okasa,
falling down from a status is suffering.
So, if I could stay in the hell-being status from the beginning, then no suffering.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 07:33:20 AM
From a state of a young Bhikkhu equal tradition...to householder... ...asura (now) on the border to animal, peta, hell-state. It can go quick if not having firm nissaya.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 07:29:27 AM
Aniccam vatta samsara...

gus

October 05, 2018, 06:56:28 AM
Evolution:
Bhante subhuti =>
Upasaka gus =>
Deva gus =>
Asura gus.

In the future:
Asura gus =>
Peta gus =>
Animal gus =>
Hell-being gus ???

gus

October 05, 2018, 05:51:42 AM
Okasa, I think bhante thinks me as a patriot because of some content of my posts. But it is not.
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 05, 2018, 05:41:33 AM
What ever one likes to, not touched like the moon, does not mean to praise what is blameworthy and vici-versa and to have metta not to let people run into hell if ways can be pointed out. Yet other choices at least are their. Be quick, your island drifts away!

gus

October 05, 2018, 05:34:15 AM
Okasa,
As long as I don't do exactly what you say, I think I'll not be able to make you happy or satisfied.
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 02:12:55 PM
If thinking that this is for sure, if delighting in believing that connected things are a refuge and give space to rest: one may do so. Ones own choice. When ever one stops to nurish inwardly, ouwardly path and fruits die. Good as well as bad.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:28:51 AM
If bhante didn't let the weak person to live in avatar/deva mode, then he will lose both openness and connection. Up to now I have secured at least the connection.
Vandami.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:22:24 AM
Yet I appreciate and pay vandana for your care and advice on openness.
Vandami.

gus

October 04, 2018, 11:19:56 AM
Please forgive me  bhante if I have made you tired. I don't like to accumulate akusala by making a monk tired in expecting a naughty chicken to be a good duck.
Okasa dwarattayena katam sabbam accayam Khamtu me bhante!
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 11:07:06 AM
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 11:01:00 AM
Differnt asked "why is Bhante not happy, dwell not in outwardly seeming being not touched?" Because it would not only confirm and show sign of aggreement of unwise acts, but also very incompassionate and cruel. Also place for suspecting corrupt ways and invite others to follow the comfortable dwelli
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:54:12 AM
No one is able to make my person angry, which does not mean that he would not appear angry so to possible prevent from doing what is not conductive for liberation, even lead in lower states. Nothing to worry, but also no invitation to test it foolish since it could hurt one self and others.

gus

October 04, 2018, 10:46:39 AM
Okasa bhante, Isn't there at least single way to stay anonymous without making you angry?
Vandami.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:33:12 AM
corr: "it's, the domain of the Noble Ones, is nobody's personal domain" there are no wards around fields for merits and no tickets to pay
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:29:31 AM
What ever Deva gus feels inspired. It's oneones personal domain and all giving is good in the distance of the brigh cool moon. One should not fear, should not be shy to do what is good and praised by the wise but be quick!

gus

October 04, 2018, 10:21:39 AM
Bhante, is that mean you don't like me to talk about higher subjects and like to talk about basics only?
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 10:02:12 AM
It would be more than good if teaching others a lot on the topic vandami (paying respect) and khamatu (asking for forgiviness) since unknown and not practiced here around this field of merits in compassion to former relatives, Deva gus.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:55:38 AM
...total no problem to dwell and lay down in the cool shadow to heal at all and no need to ask for pardon when intended for progressing and to get fit for the battles so hard to win.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:52:39 AM
But they would not feed them in ways which might look as nurishing relations for wordly sake directly, for people not understanding would think "look, he is herding, carry for his cattle, he wasts the gift of the land, the heritage of the Gems for his becoming and own gain. Understood? Total no prob
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:45:29 AM
Never would people of integrity send away pets, petas or sick, for they are not able to change for now but possible can gain of what they need to change.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:42:28 AM
If, just to think about, one lives deliberatly with sign showing a rejection of firm trust in kamma, one lives in nurishing the danger of falling into grave wrong views and give ways that others follow what is improper to do. Just to reflect. How ever wishing to do.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:36:03 AM
What ever one does, holds as refuge or abounds, either good or bad refuge, one does for one self. Ones own choices, ones own fruits, ones own limitations, hindrences.

gus

October 04, 2018, 09:28:15 AM
Khamatu me bhante!
My previous  post was this.
"Please forgive me and give birth to kindness ao as to let me live here anonymous "
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:21:35 AM
... doing so based on gratitude without just trading in giving, or out of duty in a relation one resits, one is able to get not only to the borders, but into Noble ones domain.
 

Johann

October 04, 2018, 09:19:27 AM
And to put much into such sacrifies of giving ones honor, ones dwelling, ones source of food (family), one possession (even intelectual), the Dhamma one has made his own

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