Recent Topics

[Today at 10:39:34 AM]

[Today at 07:17:31 AM]

[Today at 04:51:23 AM]

[Today at 01:58:24 AM]

[June 23, 2019, 04:31:10 PM]

[June 23, 2019, 08:31:21 AM]

[June 23, 2019, 05:45:24 AM]

[June 22, 2019, 06:24:16 AM]

[June 22, 2019, 05:04:59 AM]

[June 21, 2019, 06:57:43 AM]

[June 20, 2019, 09:14:19 AM]

[June 17, 2019, 07:50:33 PM]

[June 16, 2019, 01:11:35 PM]

[June 16, 2019, 05:18:24 AM]

[June 16, 2019, 04:34:53 AM]

[June 15, 2019, 12:43:56 PM]

[June 15, 2019, 11:04:03 AM]

[June 15, 2019, 11:02:12 AM]

[June 15, 2019, 06:57:16 AM]

[June 15, 2019, 06:08:53 AM]

[June 13, 2019, 06:09:19 AM]

[June 12, 2019, 10:30:41 AM]

[June 12, 2019, 06:13:12 AM]

[June 12, 2019, 05:32:58 AM]

[June 12, 2019, 05:04:05 AM]

[June 12, 2019, 03:27:40 AM]

[June 11, 2019, 03:17:28 PM]

[June 11, 2019, 01:50:14 PM]

[June 11, 2019, 12:35:13 PM]

[June 11, 2019, 11:45:49 AM]

[June 09, 2019, 12:47:01 PM]

[June 09, 2019, 06:08:40 AM]

[June 06, 2019, 06:25:19 AM]

[June 06, 2019, 05:40:23 AM]

[June 06, 2019, 04:52:49 AM]

[June 06, 2019, 04:35:16 AM]

[June 04, 2019, 03:34:05 PM]

[May 31, 2019, 02:10:34 PM]

[May 31, 2019, 11:18:24 AM]

[May 31, 2019, 10:00:56 AM]

[May 31, 2019, 07:33:31 AM]

[May 30, 2019, 04:34:37 AM]

[May 29, 2019, 01:23:15 PM]

[May 29, 2019, 10:32:44 AM]

[May 29, 2019, 05:37:30 AM]

[May 29, 2019, 05:33:43 AM]

[May 29, 2019, 05:23:07 AM]

[May 29, 2019, 02:13:33 AM]

Talkbox

2019 Jun 23 19:01:54
Vithou:  _/\_

2019 Jun 17 10:19:29
Johann: Bhante Khemakumara. Everything fine, health? Can he walk like before already?

2019 Jun 17 06:34:44
Johann: Sadhu, Sadhu

2019 Jun 17 03:56:38
Cheav Villa: សាធុ សាធុ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jun 17 00:46:14
Khemakumara: May all have a joy-full and fruit-full  Uposatha full-moon day

2019 Jun 15 17:53:43
Cheav Villa: កូណាព្រះអង្គទាំងអស់គ្នាសុខទុក្ខធម្មតា ទាំងសុខភាពឈឺ ជា មិនទៀងទាត់  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ ស្រីមុខក្រញ៉ូវ គាត់មានសុខភាពល្អជា

2019 Jun 15 13:03:21
Johann: All health?

2019 Jun 15 13:02:56
Johann: Nyom Muk-kamau?

2019 Jun 15 13:01:36
Johann: And own well-being, family?

2019 Jun 15 12:48:22
Johann: Maybe all busy like most at this times.

2019 Jun 15 12:44:14
Cheav Villa: បងពុទ្ធី និងវិធូរ ខ្ញុំកូណាមិនបានជួបគ្នា និងទាក់ទងគ្នាទេ ប៉ុន្មានខែចុងក្រោយនេះ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jun 15 12:42:16
Cheav Villa: ថ្វាយបង្គំព្រះអង្គ  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jun 15 04:21:08
Johann: Nyom Villa. All fine? Nyoms fellows, like Nyom Buddhi... havn't been seen since longer. All fine with friends and family?

2019 Jun 10 04:05:23
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jun 10 01:47:04
Johann: Sadhu, Sadhu

2019 Jun 10 01:28:53
Khemakumara: May all have a fruitful waxing moon Uposatha!

2019 Jun 10 01:26:44
Khemakumara: Silena sugatiṁ yanti. Through virtue they go to a good destination.  Silena bhoga-sampadā.  Through virtue is wealth attained.  Silena nibbutiṁ yanti. Through virtue they go to Unbinding.  Tasmā silaṁ visodhaye. Therefore we should purify our virtue.

2019 Jun 06 14:52:24
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ kana,  Bhante. The wound heals fast and good.

2019 Jun 06 13:46:02
Johann: Bhante is fine, at least better?

2019 Jun 05 11:53:33
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jun 05 05:19:35
Johann: "N'atthi santi param sukham", there is no peace equal the hail of release

2019 Jun 04 10:25:51
Johann: Nyom Villa

2019 Jun 04 05:13:11
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jun 02 12:03:42
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jun 02 00:29:09
Johann: May all enjoy the bliss of the fruitful observing of the Uposatha

2019 May 31 14:40:02
Cheav Villa: សាធុ​ សាធុ  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 31 13:47:09
Johann: Sadhu and Anumodana Nyom.

2019 May 31 12:40:14
Cheav Villa: សូមអោយព្រះអង្គឆាប់ជាសះស្បើយ  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 31 12:39:05
Cheav Villa: ព្រះអង្គKhemakumara ត្រូវបានពុទ្ធបរិស័ទនិមន្តទៅគ្លីនីកនៅជិតវត្តកាលពីម៉ោង​2 និងបានវះកាត់ព្យាបាល រួចត្រឡប់ទៅវត្ត

2019 May 31 12:36:20
Cheav Villa: ថ្វាយបង្គំ​ ព្រះ​អង្គ​ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 29 09:03:01
Johann: Had overseen Bhante here. Bhante Ariyadhammika  _/\_

2019 May 29 02:19:33
Khemakumara: Bhante Johann  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 28 04:18:48
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 27 10:03:55
Johann: Much in German, Nyom, currently. Atma will try to translate as much as possible, step by step.

2019 May 26 03:04:21
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 26 03:04:06
Cheav Villa: សាធុ​

2019 May 26 01:02:17
Johann: Sadhu

2019 May 26 00:44:22
Khemakumara: May all have a meritful Uposatha day. Meeting some good friends (kalyanamitta) and som(e) sil(a) សំម សីល!

2019 May 24 14:13:29
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2019 May 24 13:28:52
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 May 24 05:23:33
Johann: Venerable

2019 May 24 05:22:57
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Johann

2019 May 24 02:08:29
Johann: Nyom Moritz, Nyom Villa.

2019 May 24 01:55:56
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 24 01:54:14
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2019 May 24 01:49:43
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 May 24 01:06:04
Johann: Venerable Ariyadhammika  _/\_

2019 May 20 04:14:26
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 20 01:31:27
Johann:  _/\_ Bhante Indannano

2019 May 19 11:28:39
Khemakumara: Nyom Cheav Villa

2019 May 19 11:27:48
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Johann  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 18 23:55:08
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 May 18 10:34:49
amanaki: Thank you Johann  _/\_

2019 May 18 09:59:33
Johann: Nyom Amanaki. Mudita that you may have possible found what searched for on a special day.

2019 May 18 09:24:56
Maria:  _/\_

2019 May 18 09:24:35
Maria: werter Bhante!

2019 May 18 09:22:43
Johann: Nyom Mizi

2019 May 18 09:21:31
Johann: Nyom Sophorn, Nyom Villa... may all here but also there rejoice in own and others goodness.

2019 May 18 05:03:47
Cheav Villa: សាធុ​សាធុ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 18 02:16:49
Moritz: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 14 07:51:30
Vithou:  _/\_

2019 May 14 05:40:54
Johann: As long as not using telefon while riding. Sokh chomreoun, Nyom.

2019 May 13 18:38:46
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ (sitting in Taxi)

2019 May 12 15:44:32
Johann: But better ask Nyom Chanroth, since Atma does not walk that far these days.

2019 May 12 15:04:01
Johann: not teally, Nyom Vithou. Still less water in the streams here. Some still dry. Needs a while down from the mountains and not that much rain yet.

2019 May 12 14:54:37
Vithou: how is the road Bhante? Is it float at the mountain leg?

2019 May 12 14:51:59
Vithou:   _/\_

2019 May 12 14:40:43
Johann: Nyom Vithou. Nothing special. Yes, rain is present every afternoon since some days.

2019 May 12 14:38:33
Vithou: Bhante, how is everything at Asrum? Is it raining everyday?

2019 May 12 07:05:30
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 12 03:58:19
Johann: a joyful day in merits on this Sila-day

2019 May 11 17:04:10
Cheav Villa:  :) _/\_

2019 May 11 16:16:56
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2019 May 11 05:35:39
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 11 00:52:44
Johann: an meritful Uposatha, those keeping it today

2019 May 10 17:14:43
Moritz: Chom reap leah, I am going to work. _/\_

2019 May 10 17:09:07
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2019 May 10 17:07:14
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 May 10 16:19:14
Moritz: Chom reap sour, bong Villa _/\_

2019 May 07 19:12:10
Johann: Nyom Vithou. Just some hours ago, thought of him.

2019 May 05 04:26:53
Chanroth:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 04 11:41:08
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 04 10:27:38
Khemakumara: Nyom Cheav Villa

2019 May 03 10:08:09
Khemakumara: Sadhu, sadhu, sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 03 01:17:53
Johann: A meritful new moon Uposatha those celebrating it today.

2019 May 03 01:16:05
Johann: Talk box is buggy and lines love to jump. Better not editing.

2019 May 03 01:14:19
Johann: U Chanroth: "ថ្ងៃនេះខ្ញុំបាទ បានទទួលនៅសម្ភារៈមួយចំនួន សម្រាប់កសាងអាស្រមថ្មទូកសូមជូនបុណ្យដល់ពុទ្ធបរិសទ័ទាំងអស់គ

2019 May 02 15:15:58
Cheav Villa:   <.I.> _/\_

2019 May 02 15:15:17
Cheav Villa: Sorry because of kh font doesn't run well on my phone. Kana go to edit  to see the right  shout but  was wrong by deleting Pou  Chanroth 's  shout

2019 May 02 15:01:04
Cheav Villa: Mudita  :) _/\_

2019 May 02 13:47:17
Moritz: Anumodana puñña kusala! _/\_

2019 May 01 14:49:38
Johann: Now some monks are so close to many, that they can be visited even by feet.

2019 May 01 06:27:25
Johann: Thats accoss the whole city and hot (but cloudy  :) ) Best wishes and greatings.

2019 May 01 06:22:36
Cheav Villa: Get lost in the jungle of Phnom Penh from 2pm till 6pm

2019 May 01 05:40:26
Cheav Villa: Bhante Khemakumara arrived at Wat Sophea Khun in late evening  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Apr 29 09:19:56
Johann: Meister Moritz

2019 Apr 29 08:51:27
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Apr 29 03:07:40
Moritz: Chom reap leah _/\_ I am going to sleep.

2019 Apr 29 02:59:19
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

Tipitaka Khmer

 Please feel welcome to join the transcription project of the Tipitaka translation in khmer, and share one of your favorite Sutta or more. Simply click here or visit the Forum: 

Search ATI on ZzE

Zugang zur Einsicht - Schriften aus der Theravada Tradition



Access to Insight / Zugang zur Einsicht: Dhamma-Suche auf mehr als 4000 Webseiten (deutsch / english) - ohne zu googeln, andere Ressourcen zu nehmen, weltliche Verpflichtungen einzugehen. Sie sind für den Zugang zur Einsicht herzlich eingeladen diese Möglichkeit zu nutzen. (Info)

Random Sutta
Random Article
Random Jataka

Zufälliges Sutta
Zufälliger Artikel
Zufälliges Jataka


Arbeits/Work Forum ZzE

"Dhammatalks.org":
[logo dhammatalks.org]
Random Talk
[pic 30]

[Buddha]

Author Topic: Should One Avoid Shameless and Immoral Monks?  (Read 524 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline gus

  • Sanghamitta
  • Full Member / Vollmitglied
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +17/-0
Should One Avoid Shameless and Immoral Monks?
« on: September 30, 2018, 02:52:57 AM »
Should One Avoid Shameless and Immoral Monks?

“Should those who know the truth about shameless and immoral monks refrain from associating with and paying respect to them? Does this agree with the verse in the Maṅgala Sutta that advises one to avoid the foolish? Is a lay person who shows disregard by shunning immoral and shameless monks following the Maṅgala Dhamma? We would like to hear evidence and case histories from the scriptures regarding good or bad results from this act.”

“Should those who know the truth about shameless and immoral monks continue to pay respect and offer requisites? Are they following the Maṅgala Dhamma that advises us to associate with the wise? Is this behaviour following the advice given in the Maṅgala Sutta or not? Kindly give evidence and case histories regarding good or bad results from this act.”


Offline Johann

  • Samanera
  • Very Engaged Member
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +362/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
Re: Should One Avoid Shameless and Immoral Monks?
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2018, 06:52:16 PM »
Actually such advices like late Ledi Sayadaw gave here, are not the world of the Buddha, brought out of context, added with personal conjugation, and if taught like that, indeed cause harm for many.

Who would not regard this what known and seen, understood as right? How many would judge right? How many would see it as a charter to act modern: shameless in reaction of dislike, not understanding, not knowing.

If Deva gus likes it to be just this teaching, good. But what if providing certain teachings (even if knowing not really correct in ways and meaning, words and deeds) and others (aside of his own possible mistake) would think he knows, follow it, possible judge wrong, following Devas advice like provided, harm themselves by harming others, cause a lot of harm out of bias, having it taken as approve?

Finding that out or not, wouldn't he fall into regret, remorse, hell by placing cetain bias? Possible totally wrong as well?

My person is not sure, not well-versed, but would wonder if there ever was an advice toward lay people ("children") to act against their parents, act against ones leader (being in dependency, using his goodness, nourishes on it), against Brahmans and Contemplatives?

Yet, on the otherside he gave planty on teaching toward his monks of what will be the effect of their actions, like in Potthakasuttaṃ

When poeple focus on the duties other might have, fall into wrong view and start to claim, missing to fullfill their duties in their own relation fist and but the outward and not the inward as their problem, when people missuse blind followes, slaves, people depending on others, having no freedom actually to use them for his/here personal objectives, politic, aim, revange... that such really causes much pain, for oneself and others.

As told in another topic: Ledi Sayadaw has certain some good teachings, but he has not overcome sakaya ditthi, spreads a lot of improper discrimination, speaks improper and not informed about other religions and uses householders for things which are not really their business. Layman/housholder-Vipassana/or Jhana-teaching-movement has not brought much good over all and has destructed the Sangha and proper livelihood very much, increased tendency to seek refuge into improper living in householder-dependency under monks, has leaded to increase of social activism, politic involvement, and in all countries where householders have been strongly encouraged to be able to make it equal or even better, conflicts, racism, religion conflicts, instability... have increased.

Once things have been taken over by householder-traditions prosperty, balance and long lasting is gone...

One is not smart in following those desiring judge and punishment.

So in this regard it's good to show disapprovement, at least no signs of approve toward this teaching, or isn't it, following simply of what the Buddha adviced?

Not so much one possible living in not so proper dependency, making gain in many regards in a relation where teaching is traded for food. Being nurished by disciples.

That's how corrupt teachings starts to arise: by giving certain favors for certain gains.

Let my person now step back a little here. Actually there is, are some willing to leave home, follow good and proper behaviour, do not hide, living open, direct and without carry houses for protection. It would be not proper to put so much time and effort into directions and toward those not willing to give up at first place but are used to pay later when the show gave them desired satisfaction.

That's housholder-economy but not the costume of those having left house.

Are there really those who think that it is proper to take side? Are there those who know the long stream of kamma back and forward over long long time?

It's probably good to stress the topic here with fundamentals, leaving this here behind to possible think and reflect about ones motivation and target aims in raising topics: Wisdom over Justice .

Helping your self fist means to let go, to learn to give (up) youself fist.

The are enought places to spread and argue about this or that householding-tradition and householder-teacher of this or that sort.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 07:03:53 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

  • Samanera
  • Very Engaged Member
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +362/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
Re: Should One Avoid Shameless and Immoral Monks?
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2018, 07:17:18 PM »
Better to ask: How would one possible know for sure that this person is "Shameless and Immoral "?

Paṭisalla Sutta: Seclusion and having certain faith in:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

"Monks, could a person of no integrity know of a person of no integrity: 'This is a person of no integrity'?"

"No, lord."

"Good, monks. It's impossible, there's no way, that a person of no integrity would know of a person of no integrity: 'This is a person of no integrity.'

"Could a person of no integrity know of a person of integrity: 'This is a person of integrity'?"

"No, lord."

"Good, monks. It's impossible, there's no way, that a person of no integrity would know of a person of integrity: 'This is a person of integrity.'"...

"Now, monks, could a person of integrity know of a person of no integrity: 'This is a person of no integrity'?"

"Yes, lord."

"Good, monks. It is possible that a person of integrity would know of a person of no integrity: 'This is a person of no integrity.'

"Could a person of integrity know of a person of integrity: 'This is a person of integrity'?"

"Yes, lord."

"Good, monks. It is possible that a person of integrity would know of a person of integrity: 'This is a person of integrity.'

"A person of integrity is endowed with qualities of integrity; he is a person of integrity in his friendship, in the way he wills, the way he gives advice, the way he speaks, the way he acts, the views he holds, & the way he gives a gift....

May it give release, may it give cause to increase Saddha by the touch of it.

May it cause the end for meaningless fight for something one like to make his home. May it help to leave it, go beyond and face real refuge for oneself as long one has not destructed all doors out by oneself for long long time, thinking it's possible to be secure within just another one.

Anumodana!
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 07:24:23 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Tags: