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Talkbox

2019 Feb 21 03:15:02
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2019 Feb 20 15:56:46
Johann: see here

2019 Feb 20 13:33:02
Cheav Villa: ពូចាន់រ័ត្ន សុំអោយសួរព្រះអង្គ តើម្សិលមិញ រឺ​ម្សិលម្ង៉ៃ​ មានមនុស្ស​ប្រុសម្នាក់ស្រីម្នាក់ ឡើងទៅលើភ្នំ ឬទេ?

2019 Feb 20 13:31:37
Cheav Villa: ថ្វាយបង្គំ​ព្រះអង្គ  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 18 14:34:39
Johann: Meister Moritz

2019 Feb 18 13:29:24
Moritz: Leaving. May Bhante and all have a good day. _/\_

2019 Feb 18 13:18:25
Moritz: _/\_

2019 Feb 18 09:31:39
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2019 Feb 18 08:19:34
Johann: Where and what to practice?

2019 Feb 18 08:15:08
Johann: Where and when ever good inspired and worthy to give into.

2019 Feb 18 08:14:03
Johann: That place here is not that different, and Nyom did already a lot here. And don't forget: Punna iomething that arises in ones heart, not outwardly.

2019 Feb 18 07:34:01
Cheav Villa: ជាមួយនឹង​ក្រុម​​លោកម្ចាស់​ស្រេង​   _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 18 07:32:56
Cheav Villa: កូណាមិនបានទៅចូលរួមមាឃបូជានៅឱរ៉ាល់ឆ្នាំនេះ តែសង្ឃឹមនឹងបានទៅចូលរួម​ពិធីឡើងកុដិនៅខែ3 

2019 Feb 18 03:52:46
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 18 01:21:42
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2019 Feb 18 01:21:10
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 18 01:16:11
Johann: Bhante. Nyom Villa.

2019 Feb 18 01:14:29
Johann: Nyom Moritz. Sokh chomreoun

2019 Feb 18 00:34:02
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Feb 15 04:14:01
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 15 03:43:29
Johann: Another day, another possibility. We don't know what tomorrow might be

2019 Feb 15 03:43:01
Johann: ថ្ងៃ ថ្មី មួូយ ជា ឳកាស ថ្មី មួយ ទៀត។ យើង មិន អាច ដឹង មុន នូវ អ្វី ដែល នឹង កើតឡើង ថ្ងៃ ស្អែក

2019 Feb 12 05:47:26
Johann: Nyom Chanroth

2019 Feb 11 07:35:04
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 11 07:01:15
Johann: Bhante

2019 Feb 10 15:18:50
Vithou: Hope Preah Ang doing well too.. Thanks Preah Ang

2019 Feb 10 15:17:51
Vithou: Nhom kuna doing well so far.

2019 Feb 10 12:29:57
Johann: Nyom Vithou. But Nyom is well so far?

2019 Feb 10 12:02:00
Vithou: Actually they put in the kidnee. :)

2019 Feb 10 12:01:26
Vithou:  take it out on 20 Feb

2019 Feb 10 12:01:25
Vithou:  take it out on 20 Feb

2019 Feb 10 12:01:12
Vithou: the doctor put it for one month . I will

2019 Feb 10 12:00:28
Vithou: Kuna Tvay Bongkom Preah Ang  nyom kuna is fne now but still have a pipe inside mybody

2019 Feb 10 11:47:41
Johann: Sokh chomreoun Nyom Buddhi

2019 Feb 10 11:44:41
Ieng Puthy: ករុណាខានបានចូលមកក្នុងវេបសាយអានព្រះធម៌អស់ប៉ុន្មានថ្ងៃ

2019 Feb 10 11:41:53
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻ករុណាថ្វាយបង្គំុ Vandami Bhante

2019 Feb 09 14:43:21
Cheav Villa: សួស្តី​ពូចាន់រ័ត្ម _/\_

2019 Feb 09 14:42:08
Johann: ញោម Chanroth

2019 Feb 09 11:32:48
Johann: ខ្លះ ... how ever, good to here

2019 Feb 09 10:30:33
Cheav Villa: វិធូថាគាត់បានធូរខ្លះហើយ គាត់នឹងរកពេលទូលព្រះអង្គ តាម​Talk box  _/\_

2019 Feb 09 02:49:21
Cheav Villa: កូណាបានសួរគាត់ដែរ តែមិនទាន់មានការឆ្លើយតបទេ ប្រហែលជាគាត់រវល់ខ្លាំង  _/\_

2019 Feb 08 15:24:14
Johann: How is Nyom Vithou doing, Nyom Villa? Nyom Chanroth told that he still has burden after the hospital.

2019 Feb 07 13:07:06
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 07 13:04:40
Johann: Nearly out of power("suns gift") for today again. May all give into good deeds with their power left.

2019 Feb 07 13:04:33
Johann: Nearly out of power("suns gift") for today again. May all give into good deeds with their power left.

2019 Feb 05 13:35:45
Johann: Meister Vinodh

2019 Feb 05 08:45:20
Johann: មុដិតា

2019 Feb 05 07:46:50
Cheav Villa: អរព្រះគុណ​ ព្រះអង្គ  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ ពួកខ្ញុំកូណា បានធូរស្បើយ​ច្រើន​ អំពីបញ្ហាសុខភាពរាងកាយ​  _/\_

2019 Feb 05 07:25:29
Johann: Nyom Villa. Family, all healthy and well?

2019 Feb 05 03:34:18
Johann: Mr. Nathan

2019 Feb 04 13:42:11
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2019 Feb 04 04:25:07
Cheav Villa: កូណា​ត្រេកអរ​ ដែលបានឃើញផ្លូវទៅមុខ ឧបនិស្ស័យ​ការបដិបត្តិ​ឧបោសថ​យឺតយូរ​  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 04 04:22:09
Cheav Villa: ការហាត់ធ្វើឧបោសថបានបន្តិចបន្តួួច ដោយវិធីស្រាយចំណងដែលជាប់មាំ

2019 Feb 04 04:18:58
Cheav Villa: ព្រះអង្គ​ _/\_ ចិត្តនឿយណាយចន្លោះពេលបានសុខ និងបានទុក្ខ

2019 Feb 04 04:04:13
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ កូណាព្រះអង្គ

2019 Feb 04 03:55:36
Johann: English iti 49

2019 Feb 04 03:51:37
Johann: Importand teaching in regard of wishing for becoming or not-becoming! ទិដ្ឋិគតសូត្រ (១២.)

2019 Feb 04 03:37:57
Johann: It can be observed free of all Sakaya ditthi as well.

2019 Feb 04 03:25:52
Johann: Uposatha is a good tradition to take on.

2019 Feb 04 03:24:53
Johann: This, the Buddha told, can not be archived by just wishing, Nyom, the end of suffering.

2019 Feb 04 02:23:26
Cheav Villa: May​ all possibilities in a rebirth has decreased  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 04 02:18:49
Cheav Villa: Since my grandmother, my dad, I kana has not taken on the traditional of Chinese new year

2019 Feb 04 01:28:26
Johann: An insightful Chines New Year and new moon day, a rebirth of another round of possibility in chosing ways with every action.

2019 Feb 03 16:08:02
Ieng Puthy: ករុណាថ្វាយបង្គំុព្រះអង្គvandami 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

2019 Feb 03 12:20:05
Cheav Villa:  កូណាព្រះអង្គ  _/\_ 

2019 Feb 03 12:10:00
Johann: Nyom Villa

2019 Feb 03 07:06:33
Johann: Nyom Buddhi

2019 Feb 02 16:53:13
Johann: All a matter of leaving house and not searching for the next, Nyom.

2019 Feb 02 16:51:36
Johann: Editing post here is not so good since there is a software issue, cutting away all to 200 characters.

2019 Feb 02 16:18:35
Ieng Puthy: ព្រះអង្គករុណានឹករលឹកភ្នំឱរា៉ល់ណាស់ សង្ឃឹមថាថ្ងៃណាមួយករុណានឹងបានទៅថ្វាយបង្គំុព្រះអង្គដោយផ្ទាល់ ។ បេីបុណ

2019 Feb 02 15:52:20
Johann: Nyom Buddhi

2019 Feb 02 15:35:54
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻ករុណាថ្វាយបង្គំុVandami Bhante.

2019 Feb 02 15:33:38
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

2019 Feb 02 10:35:46
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 02 08:36:16
Johann: Atma will then make a "sun-break" for today

2019 Feb 01 11:36:30
Ieng Puthy: ករុណាថ្វាយបង្គំ🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻Vandami Bhante

2019 Jan 31 15:55:14
Johann: Bhante Muni

2019 Jan 30 15:40:30
Johann: Nyom Buddhi

2019 Jan 30 05:24:55
Johann: "sreng" is really "nasty" if becoming. It's also easy to get by sweeping dusty group and dry gras.

2019 Jan 30 04:35:46
Cheav Villa: កូណាព្រះអង្គ  _/\_

2019 Jan 30 04:11:18
Johann: It's possible not "sreng", Nyom, it's autumn diseas, and infection not to be healed. The origin why the Buddha allowed tonics ("food" at "wrong" time), weakness of the body.

2019 Jan 30 03:27:08
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jan 30 01:12:39
Sophorn: Bhante Khemakura, kana hofft, Bhante geht es besser!  _/\_

2019 Jan 30 01:12:10
Sophorn: Vandami Bhante Khemakura  _/\_

2019 Jan 30 01:11:53
Sophorn: Vandami Bhante Indannano  _/\_

2019 Jan 30 01:11:38
Sophorn: Vandami Bhante Johann _/\_

2019 Jan 29 10:12:10
Johann: Bhante. Wie geht es der Unterlippe?

2019 Jan 27 04:59:09
Johann: Nyom Vithou

2019 Jan 26 14:38:07
Cheav Villa: Vandāmi Bhante Indaññāno  _/\_

2019 Jan 25 16:12:30
Cheav Villa:  :o _/\_

2019 Jan 25 16:04:02
Johann: There are two, actually. Something to be careful about.

2019 Jan 25 15:39:25
Cheav Villa: Vilāsa  :D karuṇā found this meaning in Pāḷi Dictionary  _/\_

2019 Jan 25 15:24:52
Johann: No vaṇṇa-macchariya: rejoicing that other appear as vilasa as oneself... Sadhu!

2019 Jan 25 15:17:51
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jan 25 14:29:43
Johann: If Ñoma Buddhi likes to wear the color of an ārāmikinī, to be able to edit, add translations, corrections, it should be no problem. Ñoma Vīḷa might help to get known the "power and responsibility" of goodness.

2019 Jan 25 14:22:02
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏼អរព្រះគុណព្រះអង្គ

2019 Jan 25 11:55:49
Johann: No problem Nyom, that was clear (word prediction...). Only moderator and admin can edit text in the shoutbox.

2019 Jan 25 11:04:42
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻ព្រះអង្គករុណាសរសេរអក្សរខុស ករុណារកកន្លែងលុបអក្សរដែលខុសមិនឃេីញទេ ។ ករុណាចង់សរសេរVandami Bhante មិនមែន vandalism Bhante ទេ។

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Author Topic: Should One Avoid Shameless and Immoral Monks?  (Read 418 times)

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Offline gus

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Should One Avoid Shameless and Immoral Monks?
« on: September 30, 2018, 02:52:57 AM »
Should One Avoid Shameless and Immoral Monks?

“Should those who know the truth about shameless and immoral monks refrain from associating with and paying respect to them? Does this agree with the verse in the Maṅgala Sutta that advises one to avoid the foolish? Is a lay person who shows disregard by shunning immoral and shameless monks following the Maṅgala Dhamma? We would like to hear evidence and case histories from the scriptures regarding good or bad results from this act.”

“Should those who know the truth about shameless and immoral monks continue to pay respect and offer requisites? Are they following the Maṅgala Dhamma that advises us to associate with the wise? Is this behaviour following the advice given in the Maṅgala Sutta or not? Kindly give evidence and case histories regarding good or bad results from this act.”


Offline Johann

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Re: Should One Avoid Shameless and Immoral Monks?
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2018, 06:52:16 PM »
Actually such advices like late Ledi Sayadaw gave here, are not the world of the Buddha, brought out of context, added with personal conjugation, and if taught like that, indeed cause harm for many.

Who would not regard this what known and seen, understood as right? How many would judge right? How many would see it as a charter to act modern: shameless in reaction of dislike, not understanding, not knowing.

If Deva gus likes it to be just this teaching, good. But what if providing certain teachings (even if knowing not really correct in ways and meaning, words and deeds) and others (aside of his own possible mistake) would think he knows, follow it, possible judge wrong, following Devas advice like provided, harm themselves by harming others, cause a lot of harm out of bias, having it taken as approve?

Finding that out or not, wouldn't he fall into regret, remorse, hell by placing cetain bias? Possible totally wrong as well?

My person is not sure, not well-versed, but would wonder if there ever was an advice toward lay people ("children") to act against their parents, act against ones leader (being in dependency, using his goodness, nourishes on it), against Brahmans and Contemplatives?

Yet, on the otherside he gave planty on teaching toward his monks of what will be the effect of their actions, like in Potthakasuttaṃ

When poeple focus on the duties other might have, fall into wrong view and start to claim, missing to fullfill their duties in their own relation fist and but the outward and not the inward as their problem, when people missuse blind followes, slaves, people depending on others, having no freedom actually to use them for his/here personal objectives, politic, aim, revange... that such really causes much pain, for oneself and others.

As told in another topic: Ledi Sayadaw has certain some good teachings, but he has not overcome sakaya ditthi, spreads a lot of improper discrimination, speaks improper and not informed about other religions and uses householders for things which are not really their business. Layman/housholder-Vipassana/or Jhana-teaching-movement has not brought much good over all and has destructed the Sangha and proper livelihood very much, increased tendency to seek refuge into improper living in householder-dependency under monks, has leaded to increase of social activism, politic involvement, and in all countries where householders have been strongly encouraged to be able to make it equal or even better, conflicts, racism, religion conflicts, instability... have increased.

Once things have been taken over by householder-traditions prosperty, balance and long lasting is gone...

One is not smart in following those desiring judge and punishment.

So in this regard it's good to show disapprovement, at least no signs of approve toward this teaching, or isn't it, following simply of what the Buddha adviced?

Not so much one possible living in not so proper dependency, making gain in many regards in a relation where teaching is traded for food. Being nurished by disciples.

That's how corrupt teachings starts to arise: by giving certain favors for certain gains.

Let my person now step back a little here. Actually there is, are some willing to leave home, follow good and proper behaviour, do not hide, living open, direct and without carry houses for protection. It would be not proper to put so much time and effort into directions and toward those not willing to give up at first place but are used to pay later when the show gave them desired satisfaction.

That's housholder-economy but not the costume of those having left house.

Are there really those who think that it is proper to take side? Are there those who know the long stream of kamma back and forward over long long time?

It's probably good to stress the topic here with fundamentals, leaving this here behind to possible think and reflect about ones motivation and target aims in raising topics: Wisdom over Justice .

Helping your self fist means to let go, to learn to give (up) youself fist.

The are enought places to spread and argue about this or that householding-tradition and householder-teacher of this or that sort.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 07:03:53 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Re: Should One Avoid Shameless and Immoral Monks?
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2018, 07:17:18 PM »
Better to ask: How would one possible know for sure that this person is "Shameless and Immoral "?

Paṭisalla Sutta: Seclusion and having certain faith in:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

"Monks, could a person of no integrity know of a person of no integrity: 'This is a person of no integrity'?"

"No, lord."

"Good, monks. It's impossible, there's no way, that a person of no integrity would know of a person of no integrity: 'This is a person of no integrity.'

"Could a person of no integrity know of a person of integrity: 'This is a person of integrity'?"

"No, lord."

"Good, monks. It's impossible, there's no way, that a person of no integrity would know of a person of integrity: 'This is a person of integrity.'"...

"Now, monks, could a person of integrity know of a person of no integrity: 'This is a person of no integrity'?"

"Yes, lord."

"Good, monks. It is possible that a person of integrity would know of a person of no integrity: 'This is a person of no integrity.'

"Could a person of integrity know of a person of integrity: 'This is a person of integrity'?"

"Yes, lord."

"Good, monks. It is possible that a person of integrity would know of a person of integrity: 'This is a person of integrity.'

"A person of integrity is endowed with qualities of integrity; he is a person of integrity in his friendship, in the way he wills, the way he gives advice, the way he speaks, the way he acts, the views he holds, & the way he gives a gift....

May it give release, may it give cause to increase Saddha by the touch of it.

May it cause the end for meaningless fight for something one like to make his home. May it help to leave it, go beyond and face real refuge for oneself as long one has not destructed all doors out by oneself for long long time, thinking it's possible to be secure within just another one.

Anumodana!
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 07:24:23 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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