Recent Topics

[Today at 01:00:38 PM]

[Today at 05:11:33 AM]

[February 22, 2019, 07:21:36 PM]

[February 21, 2019, 08:13:15 AM]

[February 18, 2019, 04:55:41 PM]

[February 18, 2019, 04:38:28 PM]

[February 18, 2019, 12:23:02 PM]

[February 16, 2019, 06:05:42 AM]

[February 15, 2019, 03:38:13 PM]

[February 13, 2019, 12:00:55 PM]

[February 13, 2019, 05:22:18 AM]

[February 12, 2019, 02:15:37 PM]

[February 12, 2019, 04:26:10 AM]

[February 12, 2019, 04:13:27 AM]

[February 12, 2019, 01:53:55 AM]

[February 11, 2019, 04:40:30 PM]

[February 11, 2019, 04:16:53 PM]

[February 11, 2019, 07:13:26 AM]

[February 11, 2019, 07:08:33 AM]

[February 10, 2019, 02:18:43 AM]

[February 09, 2019, 11:05:33 AM]

[February 08, 2019, 02:57:40 PM]

[February 08, 2019, 03:43:23 AM]

Talkbox

2019 Feb 21 03:15:02
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2019 Feb 20 15:56:46
Johann: see here

2019 Feb 20 13:33:02
Cheav Villa: ពូចាន់រ័ត្ន សុំអោយសួរព្រះអង្គ តើម្សិលមិញ រឺ​ម្សិលម្ង៉ៃ​ មានមនុស្ស​ប្រុសម្នាក់ស្រីម្នាក់ ឡើងទៅលើភ្នំ ឬទេ?

2019 Feb 20 13:31:37
Cheav Villa: ថ្វាយបង្គំ​ព្រះអង្គ  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 18 14:34:39
Johann: Meister Moritz

2019 Feb 18 13:29:24
Moritz: Leaving. May Bhante and all have a good day. _/\_

2019 Feb 18 13:18:25
Moritz: _/\_

2019 Feb 18 09:31:39
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2019 Feb 18 08:19:34
Johann: Where and what to practice?

2019 Feb 18 08:15:08
Johann: Where and when ever good inspired and worthy to give into.

2019 Feb 18 08:14:03
Johann: That place here is not that different, and Nyom did already a lot here. And don't forget: Punna iomething that arises in ones heart, not outwardly.

2019 Feb 18 07:34:01
Cheav Villa: ជាមួយនឹង​ក្រុម​​លោកម្ចាស់​ស្រេង​   _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 18 07:32:56
Cheav Villa: កូណាមិនបានទៅចូលរួមមាឃបូជានៅឱរ៉ាល់ឆ្នាំនេះ តែសង្ឃឹមនឹងបានទៅចូលរួម​ពិធីឡើងកុដិនៅខែ3 

2019 Feb 18 03:52:46
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 18 01:21:42
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2019 Feb 18 01:21:10
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 18 01:16:11
Johann: Bhante. Nyom Villa.

2019 Feb 18 01:14:29
Johann: Nyom Moritz. Sokh chomreoun

2019 Feb 18 00:34:02
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Feb 15 04:14:01
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 15 03:43:29
Johann: Another day, another possibility. We don't know what tomorrow might be

2019 Feb 15 03:43:01
Johann: ថ្ងៃ ថ្មី មួូយ ជា ឳកាស ថ្មី មួយ ទៀត។ យើង មិន អាច ដឹង មុន នូវ អ្វី ដែល នឹង កើតឡើង ថ្ងៃ ស្អែក

2019 Feb 12 05:47:26
Johann: Nyom Chanroth

2019 Feb 11 07:35:04
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 11 07:01:15
Johann: Bhante

2019 Feb 10 15:18:50
Vithou: Hope Preah Ang doing well too.. Thanks Preah Ang

2019 Feb 10 15:17:51
Vithou: Nhom kuna doing well so far.

2019 Feb 10 12:29:57
Johann: Nyom Vithou. But Nyom is well so far?

2019 Feb 10 12:02:00
Vithou: Actually they put in the kidnee. :)

2019 Feb 10 12:01:26
Vithou:  take it out on 20 Feb

2019 Feb 10 12:01:25
Vithou:  take it out on 20 Feb

2019 Feb 10 12:01:12
Vithou: the doctor put it for one month . I will

2019 Feb 10 12:00:28
Vithou: Kuna Tvay Bongkom Preah Ang  nyom kuna is fne now but still have a pipe inside mybody

2019 Feb 10 11:47:41
Johann: Sokh chomreoun Nyom Buddhi

2019 Feb 10 11:44:41
Ieng Puthy: ករុណាខានបានចូលមកក្នុងវេបសាយអានព្រះធម៌អស់ប៉ុន្មានថ្ងៃ

2019 Feb 10 11:41:53
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻ករុណាថ្វាយបង្គំុ Vandami Bhante

2019 Feb 09 14:43:21
Cheav Villa: សួស្តី​ពូចាន់រ័ត្ម _/\_

2019 Feb 09 14:42:08
Johann: ញោម Chanroth

2019 Feb 09 11:32:48
Johann: ខ្លះ ... how ever, good to here

2019 Feb 09 10:30:33
Cheav Villa: វិធូថាគាត់បានធូរខ្លះហើយ គាត់នឹងរកពេលទូលព្រះអង្គ តាម​Talk box  _/\_

2019 Feb 09 02:49:21
Cheav Villa: កូណាបានសួរគាត់ដែរ តែមិនទាន់មានការឆ្លើយតបទេ ប្រហែលជាគាត់រវល់ខ្លាំង  _/\_

2019 Feb 08 15:24:14
Johann: How is Nyom Vithou doing, Nyom Villa? Nyom Chanroth told that he still has burden after the hospital.

2019 Feb 07 13:07:06
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 07 13:04:40
Johann: Nearly out of power("suns gift") for today again. May all give into good deeds with their power left.

2019 Feb 07 13:04:33
Johann: Nearly out of power("suns gift") for today again. May all give into good deeds with their power left.

2019 Feb 05 13:35:45
Johann: Meister Vinodh

2019 Feb 05 08:45:20
Johann: មុដិតា

2019 Feb 05 07:46:50
Cheav Villa: អរព្រះគុណ​ ព្រះអង្គ  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ ពួកខ្ញុំកូណា បានធូរស្បើយ​ច្រើន​ អំពីបញ្ហាសុខភាពរាងកាយ​  _/\_

2019 Feb 05 07:25:29
Johann: Nyom Villa. Family, all healthy and well?

2019 Feb 05 03:34:18
Johann: Mr. Nathan

2019 Feb 04 13:42:11
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2019 Feb 04 04:25:07
Cheav Villa: កូណា​ត្រេកអរ​ ដែលបានឃើញផ្លូវទៅមុខ ឧបនិស្ស័យ​ការបដិបត្តិ​ឧបោសថ​យឺតយូរ​  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 04 04:22:09
Cheav Villa: ការហាត់ធ្វើឧបោសថបានបន្តិចបន្តួួច ដោយវិធីស្រាយចំណងដែលជាប់មាំ

2019 Feb 04 04:18:58
Cheav Villa: ព្រះអង្គ​ _/\_ ចិត្តនឿយណាយចន្លោះពេលបានសុខ និងបានទុក្ខ

2019 Feb 04 04:04:13
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ កូណាព្រះអង្គ

2019 Feb 04 03:55:36
Johann: English iti 49

2019 Feb 04 03:51:37
Johann: Importand teaching in regard of wishing for becoming or not-becoming! ទិដ្ឋិគតសូត្រ (១២.)

2019 Feb 04 03:37:57
Johann: It can be observed free of all Sakaya ditthi as well.

2019 Feb 04 03:25:52
Johann: Uposatha is a good tradition to take on.

2019 Feb 04 03:24:53
Johann: This, the Buddha told, can not be archived by just wishing, Nyom, the end of suffering.

2019 Feb 04 02:23:26
Cheav Villa: May​ all possibilities in a rebirth has decreased  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 04 02:18:49
Cheav Villa: Since my grandmother, my dad, I kana has not taken on the traditional of Chinese new year

2019 Feb 04 01:28:26
Johann: An insightful Chines New Year and new moon day, a rebirth of another round of possibility in chosing ways with every action.

2019 Feb 03 16:08:02
Ieng Puthy: ករុណាថ្វាយបង្គំុព្រះអង្គvandami 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

2019 Feb 03 12:20:05
Cheav Villa:  កូណាព្រះអង្គ  _/\_ 

2019 Feb 03 12:10:00
Johann: Nyom Villa

2019 Feb 03 07:06:33
Johann: Nyom Buddhi

2019 Feb 02 16:53:13
Johann: All a matter of leaving house and not searching for the next, Nyom.

2019 Feb 02 16:51:36
Johann: Editing post here is not so good since there is a software issue, cutting away all to 200 characters.

2019 Feb 02 16:18:35
Ieng Puthy: ព្រះអង្គករុណានឹករលឹកភ្នំឱរា៉ល់ណាស់ សង្ឃឹមថាថ្ងៃណាមួយករុណានឹងបានទៅថ្វាយបង្គំុព្រះអង្គដោយផ្ទាល់ ។ បេីបុណ

2019 Feb 02 15:52:20
Johann: Nyom Buddhi

2019 Feb 02 15:35:54
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻ករុណាថ្វាយបង្គំុVandami Bhante.

2019 Feb 02 15:33:38
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

2019 Feb 02 10:35:46
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 02 08:36:16
Johann: Atma will then make a "sun-break" for today

2019 Feb 01 11:36:30
Ieng Puthy: ករុណាថ្វាយបង្គំ🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻Vandami Bhante

2019 Jan 31 15:55:14
Johann: Bhante Muni

2019 Jan 30 15:40:30
Johann: Nyom Buddhi

2019 Jan 30 05:24:55
Johann: "sreng" is really "nasty" if becoming. It's also easy to get by sweeping dusty group and dry gras.

2019 Jan 30 04:35:46
Cheav Villa: កូណាព្រះអង្គ  _/\_

2019 Jan 30 04:11:18
Johann: It's possible not "sreng", Nyom, it's autumn diseas, and infection not to be healed. The origin why the Buddha allowed tonics ("food" at "wrong" time), weakness of the body.

2019 Jan 30 03:27:08
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jan 30 01:12:39
Sophorn: Bhante Khemakura, kana hofft, Bhante geht es besser!  _/\_

2019 Jan 30 01:12:10
Sophorn: Vandami Bhante Khemakura  _/\_

2019 Jan 30 01:11:53
Sophorn: Vandami Bhante Indannano  _/\_

2019 Jan 30 01:11:38
Sophorn: Vandami Bhante Johann _/\_

2019 Jan 29 10:12:10
Johann: Bhante. Wie geht es der Unterlippe?

2019 Jan 27 04:59:09
Johann: Nyom Vithou

2019 Jan 26 14:38:07
Cheav Villa: Vandāmi Bhante Indaññāno  _/\_

2019 Jan 25 16:12:30
Cheav Villa:  :o _/\_

2019 Jan 25 16:04:02
Johann: There are two, actually. Something to be careful about.

2019 Jan 25 15:39:25
Cheav Villa: Vilāsa  :D karuṇā found this meaning in Pāḷi Dictionary  _/\_

2019 Jan 25 15:24:52
Johann: No vaṇṇa-macchariya: rejoicing that other appear as vilasa as oneself... Sadhu!

2019 Jan 25 15:17:51
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jan 25 14:29:43
Johann: If Ñoma Buddhi likes to wear the color of an ārāmikinī, to be able to edit, add translations, corrections, it should be no problem. Ñoma Vīḷa might help to get known the "power and responsibility" of goodness.

2019 Jan 25 14:22:02
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏼អរព្រះគុណព្រះអង្គ

2019 Jan 25 11:55:49
Johann: No problem Nyom, that was clear (word prediction...). Only moderator and admin can edit text in the shoutbox.

2019 Jan 25 11:04:42
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻ព្រះអង្គករុណាសរសេរអក្សរខុស ករុណារកកន្លែងលុបអក្សរដែលខុសមិនឃេីញទេ ។ ករុណាចង់សរសេរVandami Bhante មិនមែន vandalism Bhante ទេ។

Tipitaka Khmer

 Please feel welcome to join the transcription project of the Tipitaka translation in khmer, and share one of your favorite Sutta or more. Simply click here or visit the Forum: 

Search ATI on ZzE

Zugang zur Einsicht - Schriften aus der Theravada Tradition



Access to Insight / Zugang zur Einsicht: Dhamma-Suche auf mehr als 4000 Webseiten (deutsch / english) - ohne zu googeln, andere Ressourcen zu nehmen, weltliche Verpflichtungen einzugehen. Sie sind für den Zugang zur Einsicht herzlich eingeladen diese Möglichkeit zu nutzen. (Info)

Random Sutta
Random Article
Random Jataka

Zufälliges Sutta
Zufälliger Artikel
Zufälliges Jataka


Arbeits/Work Forum ZzE

"Dhammatalks.org":
[logo dhammatalks.org]
Random Talk
[pic 30]

Author Topic: "Don't believe even the teacher's advice without thinking" - Ajahn Chah  (Read 2047 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline gus

  • Sanghamitta
  • Full Member / Vollmitglied
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +16/-0
Okasa,

I have read somewhere Ajahn Chah advising monks, saying something similar to the below.

"Don't believe even my advice without thinking and agreeing. If you believe just because of the faith, your primordial mind (thiti bhutam) have always doubts. Then you can't keep the stability of the action."

It seems he was stressing the value of investigation and upright faith.


Vandami.

Offline gus

  • Sanghamitta
  • Full Member / Vollmitglied
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +16/-0
Okasa,

Here I found the original.
Quote from: Clarity of Insight - Ajahn Chah
Once the mind is clearly seeing the impermanence of phenomena, we call it
thitibhutam – the internal witness. It is self-sustaining. Hence in the beginning, you should only accept as the truth
about fifty per cent of the things other people tell you.
On one occasion the Buddha gave a discourse to a group of monks, and afterwards asked Venerable
Sariputta, who had been listening:
" Sariputta, do you believe what I have been teaching you? "
" I still don't believe it, Bhante" Sariputta replied. The Buddha was pleased with this response and
continued,
" That is good Sariputta. You shouldn't believe any teaching people give you too easily. A sage must
contemplate thoroughly everything they hear before accepting it fully. You should take this teaching away with you
and contemplate it first."
Even though he had received a teaching from the Buddha himself, Venerable Sariputta didn't
immediately believe every single word of it. He was heedful of the right way to practise, and took the teaching away
with him to investigate it further. He would only accept the teaching if, after reflecting upon the Buddha’s explanation
of the truth, he found that it stimulated the arising of wisdom in his own mind; if this insight led his mind to become at
one with the Dhamma, and that Dhamma to become fixed within his mind. It had to be in accordance with the truth of
the way things are. The Buddha taught his disciples to accept a point of Dhamma only if, beyond all doubt they found
it to be in line with the way things are in reality -- as seen both from one’s own and other people’s experience.

Okasa bhante, I will be grateful if you could just mention the sutta where above discussion of ven. sariputta takes place.

Vandami.

Offline Johann

  • Samanera
  • Very Engaged Member
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +356/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
It has been posted in same ways, maybe two, three years ago here,, quoting Ajahn Chah and the Sutta, by Atma (my person). It might need a little till Atma remembers the place (topic) again, Deva gus .
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

  • Samanera
  • Very Engaged Member
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +356/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
Deva gus ,

Buddhas "test": Pubbakotthaka Sutta: Eastern Gatehous, SN 48:44 .

The story in Living Dhamma, Living wit Dhamma in the World , by Ven. Ajahn Chah (where my person reminded this statement by him) shows maybe also how "Kassapas" find special Nekkhamma, to an extend that not even instruction when the Buddha ask for, to certain young monks/new.

Faith in Awakening , by Ven. Thanissaro also provides with the proper context of this statement in the progress.

This "don't believe" is not for neither sekha nor a-sekha, as long as not seen by one self, even not finally and should be not thought as a general advice (remembering also the right understandig of the Kalama Sutta, thought as invitation to follow ones logic, ideas... as a replacement of Saddha).

It's totaly just food for Mara and illusion, if addopted by "householder", althought very popular and totally wrong introduced by "Dhamma-dealers" in marketing-manner "you can!", "be independent", "free!"

The combination might also give satisfaction on the root of "spinning around" present in many topic, and fundamental, often problematic topic "critic "

If not satisfied, no pīti arises, may it be told.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 06:10:17 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline gus

  • Sanghamitta
  • Full Member / Vollmitglied
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +16/-0
Okasa bhante,

So what do you think about ajahn Chah's teachings?
Are they not acceptable?

Vandami.

Offline Johann

  • Samanera
  • Very Engaged Member
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +356/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
For the most they are "Mahayana"! Higher Virtue, Concentration, Wisdom.

E.g. Teachings for those having left home (on the path), to become Arahats.

Provide certain dangers for householders since to advanced when mind is actually totaly outwardly.

"Householder-disciple" (of him), if meeting Ajahn Chah approaches them personally, are confronted by him, quickly hate Ajahn Chah.

Most people still don't know the essence of meditation practice. They think that walking meditation, sitting meditation and listening to Dhamma talks are the practice. That's true too, but these are only the outer forms of practice. The real practice takes place when the mind encounters a sense object. That's the place to practice, where sense contact occurs. When people say things we don't like there is resentment, if they say things we like we experience pleasure. Now this is the place to practice. How are we going to practice with these things? This is the crucial point. If we just run around chasing after happiness and away from suffering all the time we can practice until the day we die and never see the Dhamma. This is useless. When pleasure and pain arise how are we going to use the Dhamma to be free of them? This is the point of practice...
« Last Edit: October 02, 2018, 01:15:12 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline gus

  • Sanghamitta
  • Full Member / Vollmitglied
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +16/-0
Okasa bhante,

So do you mean,

"Ajahn Chah's teachings are good and correct, but only for people left home, and not for housholeders" ?
or
"unacceptable and mixed with Mahayana ideas" ?

Vandami.

Offline Johann

  • Samanera
  • Very Engaged Member
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +356/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
At certain point, if the "home" is not left, they can be Mohayana teaching. People at large, householder, love Mohayana, and it does not depend of either they think they are follower of this or that school. It does not matter which outwardly occupation, way of making a living.

But the same counts for teaching of the Buddha, missing context, and if taken and not given, based on the wrong way to attain them. They become poision, or bite like snakes, grasped wrong.

Householders get/take Mahayana teachings, "higher paths", and it's because not having made the home task (German: Haus-aufgabe, giving up (at) home, before... that what children have to do before next morning. word-play), there is no fundation. Having not given in advanced.

This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline gus

  • Sanghamitta
  • Full Member / Vollmitglied
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +16/-0
Okasa,

Is that mean "there is no unacceptable teaching of ajahn chah"?

Vandami.

Offline Johann

  • Samanera
  • Very Engaged Member
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +356/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
Let Deva gus let my person answer with another famous persons teaching:

http://accesstoinsight.eu

It's not necessary to hear the good Dhamma from a Buddha/Arahat direct. It's needed that there is no avija-phassa.

When ever touched "at heart", Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha are seen. One has to leave home first.

Why seeking for a home as refuge?

In Simple Terms
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline gus

  • Sanghamitta
  • Full Member / Vollmitglied
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +16/-0
Okasa bhante,

I understand what you say about "good, better and best'. And there is no any confusion about the best approach.

If it is allowed to live an pure and independent life lonely, without living under a teacher during the first five years, I think many will do that.

Where they happened to face the problem is when they couldn't find an independent teacher who has not any obligations with lay people or monasteries.

Teachers don't like a student monk who demands/claims high virtues of ajiva than him. Many teachers expel or discourage such students.

On the other hand, the students who live an solitary life without nissaya (because they couldn't find a proper forest teacher), is subject to down-fall.

Many have had to confuse between,
Forest-less teacher and Teacher-less forest
or
Ajivaparisuddhi-less Nissaya and Nissaya-less Ajivaparisuddhi

Vandami.

Offline Johann

  • Samanera
  • Very Engaged Member
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +356/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527

Quote from: Deva Gus
If it is allowed to live an pure and independent life lonely, without living under a teacher during the first five years, I think many will do that.

It's "allowed" under certain conditions, under certain determinations. But honest: there would be many confused forest-dweller outside there. But even that, what's the problem: "One can laught at them, if returning to the monastery for medicine." Or just best reintegrate.

If they all would not carry passport, Monk-identifications and human-right. My person really sees no problem at all. And if wishing to kick one, the does Kamma.

May my person ask as for what a person, having gained independency from a teacher, would need Nissaya aside of progressing while Dukkha is not abounded yet?

And yes, that is why the Buddha gave rules in the Mahavagga, of who may accept pupils or young fellows.

Quote from: Deva Gus
...independent teacher...
How does one know? By living together... and what's the problem to walk on if "great love toward ones father fades" or never existed? Gratitude is a real problem if having grown up with "rights", "claim", "demands"... thinking ones goodness and greatness, "I deserve it" had nurished him all the time till, since "able" walk on to possible eat away his last credits. Then they say "my Nissaya is over, I have to go back to the lower life"

Not sure of how monks are called in Sri Lanka, but here they are usually still adressed by "I, Lord of compassion", Preah, Prah (thai.), Brah (pali) by lay people, and monks, it of good community would adress each other equally in respect and not with "you", "john"...

Quote from: Deva Gus
Teachers don't like a student monk who demands/claims high virtues of ajiva than him. Many teachers expel or discourage such students.

What's the problem? What's the need of a teacher if thinking already better then him? What would he learn?

Quote from: Deva Gus
Many have had to confuse between,
Forest-less teacher and Teacher-less forest
or
Ajivaparisuddhi-less Nissaya and Nissaya-less Ajivaparisuddhi

And did the Buddha ever generally encouraged to seek for an Arahat in the forest, or to stay with the a community?

Let people worry about Bhikkuni-Ordination..  :) rather to try their best that the possible lasting Savaka-Sangha meet together, get's open roads and straighten out their unity aside of normal society.

What ever is hold, is lost, or is it improper to draw this from "What ever is given, is not lost."
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline gus

  • Sanghamitta
  • Full Member / Vollmitglied
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +16/-0
Okasa bhante,
I'm grateful and pay Vandana on your advices.

Not sure of how monks are called in Sri Lanka, but here they are usually still adressed by "I, Lord of compassion", Preah, Prah (thai.), Brah (pali) by lay people, and monks, it of good community would adress each other equally in respect and not with "you", "john"...
In Sri Lanka monks are addressed "swamin wahanse" (Owner Lord) by younger monks and lay people. Sometimes "Bhante" is used.
Younger monks are addressed "ayushmatun wahanse" (ayasma) by elder monks. occasionally "Avuso" is used.
Lay people and monks who are not familiar with forest traditions, use "hamuduruvo" (Owner Son) to address any younger or elder monk.

Quote from: Deva Gus
Teachers don't like a student monk who demands/claims high virtues of ajiva than him. Many teachers expel or discourage such students.
What's the problem? What's the need of a teacher if thinking already better then him? What would he learn?
I meant if a student need to do dhutangas or follow strict vinaya practices, It is difficult for him to live with a teacher who doesn't have similar virtues. But the teacher may have many virtues and wisdom in other areas.
(eg: Student doesn't like to contact with supporters yet monastery need him to do, Student doesn't like to go to households yet monastery need him to do ..etc.)
If he lives there without being compliant with the teacher's way, the teacher thinks him as disobedient student.

Though there are little number of monks who follow same principles, he can't easily find a nissaya-dayaka teacher who follow or allow such practices.

If he adapted to the monastery's or teacher's way, after living more than 5 years, he will end up with having used to unwanted habits and bonds due to upanissaya. 

It seems either he should secure teacher at the expense of upright practice, or secure upright practice at the expense of teacher. What is the correct way?

*  According to the Dhatu Samyuttha, I think, only the people with similar characteristics can build up a successful relationship.(Like the the wise monks live with Sariputta thero, ascetic monks live with Mahakassapa thero, vinayadhara monks live with Upali thero, ...etc.)

Vandami.

Offline Johann

  • Samanera
  • Very Engaged Member
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +356/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
Quote from: Deva Gus
According to the Dhatu Samyuttha, I think, only the people with similar characteristics can build up a successful relationship.(Like the the wise monks live with Sariputta thero, ascetic monks live with Mahakassapa thero, vinayadhara monks live with Upali thero, ...etc.)

So what's the problem not to meet? Possible ones tendency, not willing to leave a long maintained home?

All what one could lose by letting go is rebirth or? Where does one like to go or become what?

A famous forest monk? It's really not so that others put one in a prison of desire, tanha. Where is the problem? Who likes to protect whom?

(and yes, lay people introduced here, would say "lok majas" wordly "Lord owner" here and there is no fear to give respect to each other under monks as well, in good groups)

One should never forget that great laypeople with much devotion, or great disciples, or even great servants are a blessing for one formal in a higher position.

Khmer monks like to Burma, Thai to Sri Lanka, Burmese...

And what, aside of simply not dwelling with "allergy", if good investigated and known, by the Buddha, if introduced, would Ajahn Chah say?

MANGE

The Buddha said, “Monks, did you see the jackal running around here in the evening? Did you see him? Standing still it suffered. Running around it suffered. Sitting down it suffered. Lying down it suffered. Going into the hollow of a tree, it suffered. Going into a cave, it felt ill at ease. It suffered because it thought, 'Standing here isn't good. Sitting isn't good. Lying down isn't good. This bush isn't good. This tree hollow isn't good. This cave isn't good.' So it kept running all the time. Actually, that jackal has mange. Its discomfort doesn't come from the bush or the tree hollow or the cave, from sitting, standing, or lying down. It comes from the mange.”

You monks are the same. Your discomfort comes from your wrong views. You hold onto ideas that are poisonous and so you're tormented. You don't exert restraint over your senses, so you blame other things. You don't know what's going on inside you. When you stay here at Wat Nong Pah Pong, you suffer. You go to America and suffer. You go to London and suffer. You go to Wat Bung Wai and suffer. You go to every branch monastery and suffer. Wherever you go, you suffer. This comes from the wrong views that still lie within you. Your views are wrong and you hold onto ideas that are poisonous in your hearts. Wherever you go you suffer. You're like that jackal.

Once you recover from your mange, though, you can be at ease wherever you go: at ease out in the open, at ease in the wild. I think about this often and keep teaching it to you because this point of Dhamma is very useful.

Is it the heartwood of the Buddhad teaching that someone, a savior might come one day? Or that one can  liberate oneself by following a path, the Gem?

It's such a subtil mythos, that old days have been better, or. Why than did one wait and still hopes one comes, having missed a chance long time ago already?

And every morning and evening chanting "timeless..."

Doubt and ingratitude, especially to ones own many sacrifices done, to be blessed to still see traces, blessed that the words have been so long transmitted, by so many, even if "just sacrifies" for their ancestors, or for oneself later. Some even simply tried to imitate to keep it alive, maybe also for later...

One does not know if not leaving home but seeks for another house, fearing (possible rightous) to be not supported, gain "bad" "parents"...

Who made one to come here, Deva gus ?

Can anyone force Deva to decisions?

Why beings take birth, even in most worse existences and circumstances?

Who forces one to go back home again?
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 09:42:00 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline gus

  • Sanghamitta
  • Full Member / Vollmitglied
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +16/-0
Okasa,
Who likes to protect whom?
And what, aside of simply not dwelling with "allergy", if good investigated and known, by the Buddha, if introduced, would Ajahn Chah say?
Is it the heartwood of the Buddha teaching that someone, a savior might come one day? Or that one can  liberate oneself by following a path, the Gem?
It's such a subtil mythos, that old days have been better, or. Why than did one wait and still hopes one comes, having missed a chance long time ago already?
And every morning and evening chanting "timeless..."
One does not know if not leaving home but seeks for another house, fearing (possible rightous) to be not supported, gain "bad" "parents"...
Who made one to come here, Deva gus ?

I'm grateful on your advises. Vandami.

One should never forget that great laypeople with much devotion, or great disciples, or even great servants are a blessing for one formal in a higher position.
Doubt and ingratitude, especially to ones own many sacrifices done, to be blessed to still see traces, blessed that the words have been so long transmitted, by so many, even if "just sacrifies" for their ancestors, or for oneself later. Some even simply tried to imitate to keep it alive, maybe also for later...

It is very wholesome to hear a talk about gratitude, because,
"Katannu katavedi puggalo dullabho lokasmin".

Can anyone force Deva to decisions?
Who forces one to go back home again?

No sir, I was afraid of longtime companionship upanissaya that may lead to weaken one's virtues slowly.

Vandami

Tags: