* *

Tipitaka Khmer

 Please feel welcome to join the transcription project of the Tipitaka translation in khmer, and share one of your favorite Sutta or more. Simply click here or visit the Forum: 

Search ATI on ZzE

Zugang zur Einsicht - Schriften aus der Theravada Tradition



Access to Insight / Zugang zur Einsicht: Dhamma-Suche auf mehr als 4000 Webseiten (deutsch / english) - ohne zu googeln, andere Ressourcen zu nehmen, weltliche Verpflichtungen einzugehen. Sie sind für den Zugang zur Einsicht herzlich eingeladen diese Möglichkeit zu nutzen. (Info)

Random Sutta
Random Article
Random Jataka

Zufälliges Sutta
Zufälliger Artikel
Zufälliges Jataka


Arbeits/Work Forum ZzE

"Dhammatalks.org":
[logo dhammatalks.org]
Random Talk
[pic 30]

Recent Topics

[Today at 02:46:56 PM]

[Today at 12:53:46 PM]

[Today at 02:06:16 AM]

[December 14, 2018, 02:42:03 AM]

[December 14, 2018, 02:19:42 AM]

[December 11, 2018, 05:14:55 AM]

[December 10, 2018, 09:15:34 AM]

[December 10, 2018, 09:10:51 AM]

[December 09, 2018, 02:21:21 PM]

[December 06, 2018, 06:31:25 AM]

[December 06, 2018, 05:29:03 AM]

[December 06, 2018, 05:26:19 AM]

[December 05, 2018, 12:18:52 PM]

[December 04, 2018, 05:37:07 AM]

[December 03, 2018, 04:34:01 PM]

[December 03, 2018, 03:59:03 PM]

[December 03, 2018, 01:39:20 PM]

[November 30, 2018, 11:19:21 AM]

[November 30, 2018, 05:57:17 AM]

[November 29, 2018, 02:58:30 PM]

[November 23, 2018, 05:39:15 PM]

[November 23, 2018, 01:26:50 PM]

[November 20, 2018, 03:06:46 PM]

[November 20, 2018, 09:49:52 AM]

[November 20, 2018, 05:55:36 AM]

Author Topic: How ever much you do good, the bad person will never change.  (Read 1385 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline gus

  • Sanghamitta
  • Full Member / Vollmitglied
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +16/-0
Quote from: Guttila Kavyaya - A Sinhalese poem based on Guttila Jataka
How ever much you do good,
the bad person will never change.
like a coal washed in milk,
does not turn white.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2018, 01:52:33 AM by Johann »

Offline Johann

  • Samanera
  • Very Engaged Member
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +350/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
Re: How ever much you do good, the bad person will never change.
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2018, 01:24:49 PM »
Deva gus

Such should not be approved. That's the teaching of bias, not understanding, and harmful for oneself and for many, slandering the Tathagata and those worthy to bow for in putting "Namo..." in relation with it.

Why?

Because:
1. there is no such as a inherent goodness or badness to be found anywhere.
2. You could be biased in judging of what is good and what is bad.
3. You could have an improper ārammaṇa to pick out of what is proper to judge.
4. You could be wrongly informed, be corrupted in regard of 1-4.

Ironical the Ninghantas, the Jains, starting with spreading a little metta in this and that direction, just that far, neglecting the use of person, dwelling in householder equanimity do not only try to make themselves attractive with such biased teachings, but have also success in gaining fools following them into Maras prison for a long long time.

And more ironical, they also have success to sell teachings like "beat me, tread me bad... I have metta..."

This is the teaching one catches those who have fallen into low states, those who like to destruct themselves, the petas, those who desided that they are bad and so they do not only love to punish themselves but also in interaction. That is why they are so successful in outward lands void of Arahats, apart from borderlands, drifting into the ozean of death.

So how should one tread people of which he either knows or thinks/assumes to have (still) harmful tendencies?

* Johann : If wishing to test and post something to get a judgement on it, it's not good to put "Namo" in connection with it. And it's not good to put a dispraise in connection with it. Does Deva gus understands the danger in doing otherwise, does Deva understand why one should not say "yes" if either not knowing or just for sociaicing, even cheating for best reason, if deliberated, promted, is a reason to totally get cut off. If having judged wrong, seeing later, correct and pardon it. If letting thing stand wrong, don't destroy the trap, if when ever later one falls into such a pitfall, the transgression is fullfilled, even you might have understood later on. Take care to put no pitfalls out to catch what you would like, since Deva would end up likewise, having fallen into the deep of a transgression an no more way to come up, out, nobody would help a "bad person" easilly.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2018, 01:35:56 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

  • Samanera
  • Very Engaged Member
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +350/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
Re: How ever much you do good, the bad person will never change.
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2018, 04:27:41 PM »

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

7. Jigucchitabbasuttaṃ

Should be loathed

27. "Bhikkhus, these three persons are evident in the world. Which three? A certain person should be loathed, should not be associated. The second should be looked after not (closely!) associated and the third should be (closely!) associated.

Bhikkhus, which person should be loathed and not associated?

Here a certain person is unvirtuous, with evil thoughts like rubbish, with secret actions, with only a promise to recluseship, festering inside and filth oozing out. Bhikkhus, this kind of person should be loathed, should not be associated. What is the reason? In some way if this person is not imitated, ill fame spreads, this is an evil friend, an associate of evil. Just as a serpent with excreta on its body would not sting anyone, for he smears excreta. In the same manner an unvirtuous person with evil thoughts similar to rubbish, with secret actions, with only a promise to recluseship, festering inside and filth oozing out should be loathed, should not be associated.

"Bhikkhus, what kind of person should be carefully watched, not (closely!) associated?

Bhikkhus, a certain person is angry and has grudges. When a few words are told he becomes angry swears and retorts angrily showing anger and displeasure, like a festered sore touched by a clod or stone would ooze much pus. Or like a heap of rotting food in a monastery when hit with a clod or stone would give a hissing sound. Or like a heap of excreta when hit with a clod or stone would give an evil smell Bhikkhus, in like manner a person with a mind comparable to a sore is angry, has grudges and when a few words are told he becomes angry, swears and retorts angrily showing anger and displeasure. Bhikkhus, this person should be carefully watched, not (closely) associated. What is the reason? He may scold me, rebuke me (improper!) and do me (=good tendencies in my conducts, and conductive, needed sources present in me, not my defilements) some harm. Therefore this person should be carefully watched, not (closely) associated.

"Bhikkhus, what kind of person should be closely associated?

Here a certain person is virtuous, with good behaviour. Such a person should be associated closely. What is the reason? If for some reason this person is imitated, good fame spreads. He is a good friend, behaves well. Such a person should be associated. These three persons are evident in the world."

"Associating someone low is deterioration,
Associating an equal there's no deterioration
Therefore bend down to a superior,
It is quick growth."

"Be" (act) quick!"
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

  • Samanera
  • Very Engaged Member
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +350/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
Re: How ever much you do good, the bad person will never change.
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2018, 04:54:21 PM »
And what are the times, what are the circumstances one should do good even if this person having bad tendencies or one suspects he has?

  • When ever one arrives
  • When one departs
  • When lacking of food
  • When sick
  • When performing actions which are praised and charming for the wise


And who could do good to a person having bad tendencies, is of use for "bad" to get purified?

One who has reached the homeless state may be of use, can give possibilities for purification. Can purify of what a "bad" person may give. Can purify with his compassionate acts, if the "bad" is able to receive his gifts. No matter if the one having reached homeless state might be the teacher or the student, the giver or receiver in certain relations and acts.

And what is a useless association, a waste of merits and time, when people, still having bad tendencies, having not reached the beggar state, housholder, entertain each other for becoming and resisting in Samsara. What ever gifts and sacrifies are made, what ever received is of low value, does neither purify on one or both sides and when trading with the Gems, with things of high value,  for their entertainments, for entertainings sake, then one can be sure that this is an association headed downward, one of the many highways to hell.

Is this understood? Is this penetrated? Are there doubts, further questions, Deva gus ?

Also in asking further, releasing doubt, getting clear and satified with what is conductive, be quick! Connections are not for sure and even the secure shore of the Domain of the Noble Ones not reached yet!

Be quick in leaving home, even for temporary times! Be firm in desiring for it and void householders domains as long as no proper distance like the shining moon can be maintained or has become naturally!

The moon is there as long as this world had not broken appart, be quick in searching for it and learn to trace him even when cloud are present, even if new moon is present. Be quick in learning how to trace his becoming and fading within your current ārammaṇa till you star to shine in distance for your self, weather traced, seen or rememdered by other living in outer lands, having drifted away.

Be quick in this regard no matter is you think that you are good or bad!

This is a field for merits, not for lazy, a camp to work and practice concentration. Be quick before the fields of merits may be gone for long long time.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2018, 05:12:19 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline gus

  • Sanghamitta
  • Full Member / Vollmitglied
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +16/-0
Re: How ever much you do good, the bad person will never change.
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2018, 11:06:16 PM »
Okasa bhante,

I think the poem should not be taken literally. It just mean that there are bad men whom cannot be changed. I think it doesn't mean every bad men.
And yes, I shouldn't have used the dquote for that.
Khamatu me bhante!

Vandami.

Offline Johann

  • Samanera
  • Very Engaged Member
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +350/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
Re: How ever much you do good, the bad person will never change.
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2018, 03:05:48 AM »
Deva gus ,

what ever pitfall Deva might have erected: try to remember where an "destroy" it, correct it, make it plane, so that nobody might get caught in it. Falls into it, get hurt or dies.
When it happens that someone get harmed or even lost, stepping into what Deva might has placed here or there: the transgression is complete.

Be quick!

* Johann : Atma changed Devas post in start in this regard, but it's not sure that there are always some who look after that being do not hurt each other. So care about the past to possible correct and transgression get not complete as long as possible an connection/access.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline gus

  • Sanghamitta
  • Full Member / Vollmitglied
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +16/-0
Re: How ever much you do good, the bad person will never change.
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2018, 05:48:05 AM »
Okasa Bhante,
It is a good poem about ungrateful people though it is not perfect. It is not an evil one. There is an assumption that the reader is wise enough to grasp the meaning.
Vandami.

*  What to do when you oppose everything I do and say.

Offline Johann

  • Samanera
  • Very Engaged Member
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +350/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
Re: How ever much you do good, the bad person will never change.
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2018, 06:11:31 AM »
Asura gus , assumption is already follish and the poem is biased, product of anger and motivates fools believing the Nighantas/Jain to cut themselves of and sick in the ozean on an island build on pride and conceit, woven by defilements.

Asura asking: "What to do when you oppose everything I do and say."

Maybe regard past deeds not as your own but just the results will cause another becoming (a good or bad) and having reflect on them, seen "oh real", let them behind, never pick up similar again? Try it, one who comes and looks (does) for himself will know. This requires a good birth, dukkha and Saddha. How to gain a good stand? To relay on ones own opinions...? Or by seeking Nissaya, having left home in the world behind?

Be (do) quick (what is skilful), your selfmade island is nearly no more to see from the outer shores.

Would a wise give such advices, if he holds on such foolish poems? Would a Buddha ever teach?
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline gus

  • Sanghamitta
  • Full Member / Vollmitglied
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +16/-0
Re: How ever much you do good, the bad person will never change.
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2018, 06:26:55 AM »
Okasa,

Asura gus , .. believing the Nighantas/Jain .. sick in the ozean on an island .. build on pride and conceit, ..
Asura asking: ... your selfmade island ..

I think I have done huge demerits, so that monk always condemn me.
Okay, Consider me as a AMD. (Asura micca ditthiko)


Vandami.

Offline Johann

  • Samanera
  • Very Engaged Member
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +350/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
Re: How ever much you do good, the bad person will never change.
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2018, 06:58:46 AM »
Does confused wanderer gus sees certain transgression and likes to come out of a whole or does he just like to BE, what ever think good to identify with?
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Tags:
 

Plauderbox

 

Cheav Villa

December 14, 2018, 02:06:47 PM
_/\_  _/\_  _/\_
 

Johann

December 14, 2018, 01:54:10 PM
Better, yes. Lesser fibre, only soft malary attacks seemingly ending. Abscesses going to an end, flu nearly gone and some time walk outside, some
more strength, as well already. Best supported by those near and far, direct, indirect. Sadhu Nyom Villa, Nyom Sophorn.
 

Cheav Villa

December 14, 2018, 01:50:17 PM
Vandami Bhante _/\_
Tomorrow early morning
Vithou, His brotherinlaw and Kana's brother Virak they will leave at 5am to Aural wished to visit Bhante and offering some medecines_/\_
 

Cheav Villa

December 13, 2018, 01:39:00 PM
ព្រះអង្គបានធូរខ្លះហេីយ _/\_
 

Sophorn

December 11, 2018, 04:43:02 PM
 :-* :-* :-*
May Bhante recover fast again
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

December 10, 2018, 12:22:01 PM
...many.May Nyom Sokdina let it be known if he desires for an explaining of why modern ideas and demanding go not at all in conformity with the Buddhas Dhamma but are at large leading downwardly.
 

Johann

December 10, 2018, 12:06:17 PM
Thinking in therms of rights is grave wrong view, miccha ditthi. And there are times when voting is not usefull. Of cause people who go after such ideas simply search for relexation, fun and joy and will be not satisfied by the Dhamma, Nyom Sokdina. Don't follow fools and see the many goodness of ma
 

Kong Sokdina

December 10, 2018, 10:33:43 AM
ថ្វាយបង្គំព្រះអង្គ!
Human rigths!
Women rigths,
Children rights,
Democrecy;
We know the right to do. I use self-reflaction to our mind what are something in. The right way is a good way all wr wish. I have to g
ask you about the breath relaxation, meditatii
 

Cheav Villa

December 10, 2018, 09:43:12 AM
សូមព្រះអង្គបានសម្រាក និងឆាន់ថ្នាំ សូមព្រះអង្គឆាប់ធូរស្បេីយពីរោគា
_/\_
 

Johann

December 10, 2018, 09:12:24 AM
Krun Chan did the arriving appear faster and binds to rest. Everything fine, dhammata.
 

Sophorn

December 10, 2018, 07:03:39 AM
 :-* :-* :-* kana is good. Kana assumes Bhante arrived well at Thmor Touk again.
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

December 09, 2018, 02:16:13 PM
Upanissaya, Nyom Villa... "accidents"...
 

Cheav Villa

December 09, 2018, 02:08:10 PM
ថ្វាយបង្គំព្រះអង្គ _/\_
 :D កូណាស្មនត្រូវថាព្រះអង្គនឹងត្រឡប់ទៅដល់អាស្រមវិញនាល្ងាចថ្ងៃអាទិត្យនេះ _/\_
 

Khemakumara

December 09, 2018, 01:33:19 AM
Nyom Sophorn, everything is fine!  How is nyom?
 

Sophorn

December 08, 2018, 05:40:28 PM
 :-* :-* :-* vandami Bhante Khemakura, how is Bhante?
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Sophorn

December 08, 2018, 05:40:24 PM
 :-* :-* :-* vandami Bhante Khemakura, how is Bhante?
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Cheav Villa

December 07, 2018, 01:18:12 PM
Kana Preah Ang _/\_
 

Khemakumara

December 07, 2018, 01:10:24 PM
Nyom Cheav Villa
 

Cheav Villa

December 05, 2018, 02:54:44 PM
Kana thought Bhante Johann could have left Watt Ayum on Tuesday morning _/\_
 

Cheav Villa

December 05, 2018, 12:04:44 PM
ព្រះអង្គ​Inddanano _/\_
 

Kong Sokdina

December 04, 2018, 11:52:14 AM
Sadhu! Kana Prah Ang;
There are many ways to wash & clean the all minds, Preah konmchas; i had been taught by prf. from Spain with theory & practice as well since 2006-2009 and i also let my clients to do like whatever you have told me right now. For me at this time; it should use cognitive behavio
 

Khemakumara

December 03, 2018, 05:06:22 PM
Sadhu!  Möge es Nyom Roman und Nyom Moritz gut er-gehen!
 

Moritz

December 03, 2018, 05:03:40 PM
Ebenso _/\_
 

Roman

December 03, 2018, 04:58:02 PM
ich wünsche Allen einen friedevollen Abend!
 

Roman

December 03, 2018, 04:55:34 PM
Guten Abend Moritz und Bhante Khemakumara
 

Khemakumara

December 03, 2018, 04:54:47 PM
Nyom Moritz Nyom Roman
 

Moritz

December 03, 2018, 04:45:52 PM
Vandami, Bhante Indaññano and Bhante Khemakumara _/\_
 

Cheav Villa

December 03, 2018, 12:05:41 PM
Kana Prah Ang  :D _/\_
 

Khemakumara

December 03, 2018, 12:01:58 PM
Nyom Cheav Villa
 

Johann

December 03, 2018, 09:37:36 AM
Nyom Sokdina. It would be good if Nyom could participate on the up-coming Meditation week-end at Wat Akyum to clean the mind.
 

Kong Sokdina

December 03, 2018, 02:15:52 AM
Nyoms! Last night, a gouhter is affect by irritable cougbhing so it disurbance to sleep.
 

Kong Sokdina

December 03, 2018, 02:11:21 AM
Sadhu! Thanks!
It is just  tried to give up & burn out of bad spiritul inside. Your Wishes isi good for all.
 

Sophorn

December 02, 2018, 08:48:58 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
may you recover well and fast  :-* :-* :-*
 

Kong Sokdina

December 02, 2018, 02:18:46 AM
Respectfully
Today, my is ill with lower blood pressure & blurred sion. But she tries to see because she really praises excellent merit, moral & virtue. How do you think  , as humanbeing?
 

Cheav Villa

December 01, 2018, 12:29:08 PM
 :o ព្រះអង្គស្រេងអាចនឹងដំឡេីងកម្មវិធីទាំងអស់នោះវិញបាននៅពេលក្រោយ ព្រះអង្គ _/\_
 

Johann

December 01, 2018, 12:16:35 PM
Not easy, but Atma has now erased all facebook, messenger.. apps on Bhantes device. Maybe possible to prepar the old Sangha-laptop in proper ways for him.
 

Johann

December 01, 2018, 07:58:21 AM
If wishing, you could use the Pali-language forum, http://sangham.net/index.php/board,26.0.html for your lessons.
 

Cheav Villa

December 01, 2018, 06:57:19 AM
 :D _/\_
 

Johann

December 01, 2018, 06:48:05 AM
.. was written by Johann
 

Indaññāno

December 01, 2018, 06:45:34 AM
It's good to make everything that Huang's may not use messenger and things like Facebook! Of course there is support (given support) needed to do so. Don't pull monks into the worlds markets and ways.
 

Cheav Villa

December 01, 2018, 06:00:30 AM
Kuna Prah Ang  :D _/\_
 

Johann

December 01, 2018, 05:22:57 AM
Bhante is just taking his meal, Nyom.
 

Cheav Villa

December 01, 2018, 04:40:17 AM
ព្រះអង្គ ឥន្ទញាណោ _/\_
 

Sophorn

November 30, 2018, 11:20:52 AM
 :-* :-* :-* sadhu and mudita to hear so.
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Cheav Villa

November 30, 2018, 05:52:17 AM
Sadhu _/\_
 

Johann

November 30, 2018, 05:43:37 AM
Everything "fine", better Dhammata, Nyom. Atma met Nyom. His mind is attentive, he could listen and its up to his own further investigation, blessed, being bound to care only about his breath for the time left.
 

Cheav Villa

November 29, 2018, 02:05:44 PM
តេីសុខភាពពិបាកទ្រាំ ដែរទេព្រះអង្គ? និងលោកតាឧបាសក?
 

Cheav Villa

November 29, 2018, 02:01:01 PM
ថ្វាយបង្គំព្រះអង្គ  :D
_/\_
 

Cheav Villa

November 29, 2018, 02:01:01 PM
ថ្វាយបង្គំព្រះអង្គ  :D
_/\_
 

Khemakumara

November 29, 2018, 11:10:38 AM
Sadhu

Show 50 latest