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Talkbox

2019 May 20 04:14:26
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 20 01:31:27
Johann:  _/\_ Bhante Indannano

2019 May 19 11:28:39
Khemakumara: Nyom Cheav Villa

2019 May 19 11:27:48
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Johann  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 18 23:55:08
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 May 18 10:34:49
amanaki: Thank you Johann  _/\_

2019 May 18 09:59:33
Johann: Nyom Amanaki. Mudita that you may have possible found what searched for on a special day.

2019 May 18 09:24:56
Maria:  _/\_

2019 May 18 09:24:35
Maria: werter Bhante!

2019 May 18 09:22:43
Johann: Nyom Mizi

2019 May 18 09:21:31
Johann: Nyom Sophorn, Nyom Villa... may all here but also there rejoice in own and others goodness.

2019 May 18 05:03:47
Cheav Villa: សាធុ​សាធុ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 18 02:16:49
Moritz: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 14 07:51:30
Vithou:  _/\_

2019 May 14 05:40:54
Johann: As long as not using telefon while riding. Sokh chomreoun, Nyom.

2019 May 13 18:38:46
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ (sitting in Taxi)

2019 May 12 15:44:32
Johann: But better ask Nyom Chanroth, since Atma does not walk that far these days.

2019 May 12 15:04:01
Johann: not teally, Nyom Vithou. Still less water in the streams here. Some still dry. Needs a while down from the mountains and not that much rain yet.

2019 May 12 14:54:37
Vithou: how is the road Bhante? Is it float at the mountain leg?

2019 May 12 14:51:59
Vithou:   _/\_

2019 May 12 14:40:43
Johann: Nyom Vithou. Nothing special. Yes, rain is present every afternoon since some days.

2019 May 12 14:38:33
Vithou: Bhante, how is everything at Asrum? Is it raining everyday?

2019 May 12 07:05:30
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 12 03:58:19
Johann: a joyful day in merits on this Sila-day

2019 May 11 17:04:10
Cheav Villa:  :) _/\_

2019 May 11 16:16:56
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2019 May 11 05:35:39
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 11 00:52:44
Johann: an meritful Uposatha, those keeping it today

2019 May 10 17:14:43
Moritz: Chom reap leah, I am going to work. _/\_

2019 May 10 17:09:07
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2019 May 10 17:07:14
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 May 10 16:19:14
Moritz: Chom reap sour, bong Villa _/\_

2019 May 07 19:12:10
Johann: Nyom Vithou. Just some hours ago, thought of him.

2019 May 05 04:26:53
Chanroth:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 04 11:41:08
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 04 10:27:38
Khemakumara: Nyom Cheav Villa

2019 May 03 10:08:09
Khemakumara: Sadhu, sadhu, sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 03 01:17:53
Johann: A meritful new moon Uposatha those celebrating it today.

2019 May 03 01:16:05
Johann: Talk box is buggy and lines love to jump. Better not editing.

2019 May 03 01:14:19
Johann: U Chanroth: "ថ្ងៃនេះខ្ញុំបាទ បានទទួលនៅសម្ភារៈមួយចំនួន សម្រាប់កសាងអាស្រមថ្មទូកសូមជូនបុណ្យដល់ពុទ្ធបរិសទ័ទាំងអស់គ

2019 May 02 15:15:58
Cheav Villa:   <.I.> _/\_

2019 May 02 15:15:17
Cheav Villa: Sorry because of kh font doesn't run well on my phone. Kana go to edit  to see the right  shout but  was wrong by deleting Pou  Chanroth 's  shout

2019 May 02 15:01:04
Cheav Villa: Mudita  :) _/\_

2019 May 02 13:47:17
Moritz: Anumodana puñña kusala! _/\_

2019 May 01 14:49:38
Johann: Now some monks are so close to many, that they can be visited even by feet.

2019 May 01 06:27:25
Johann: Thats accoss the whole city and hot (but cloudy  :) ) Best wishes and greatings.

2019 May 01 06:22:36
Cheav Villa: Get lost in the jungle of Phnom Penh from 2pm till 6pm

2019 May 01 05:40:26
Cheav Villa: Bhante Khemakumara arrived at Wat Sophea Khun in late evening  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Apr 29 09:19:56
Johann: Meister Moritz

2019 Apr 29 08:51:27
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Apr 29 03:07:40
Moritz: Chom reap leah _/\_ I am going to sleep.

2019 Apr 29 02:59:19
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2019 Apr 29 02:41:01
Moritz: _/\_ Bong Villa

2019 Apr 29 01:02:45
Johann: let's see wheter the rain has swept away the new floor ...

2019 Apr 28 13:58:19
Cheav Villa: First time of Heavy rain in Phnom Penh  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Apr 28 10:33:14
Cheav Villa: សាធុ​សាធុ  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Apr 28 10:21:50
Johann: Oh, rain.

2019 Apr 28 08:46:02
Johann: Pleasing soft weather, yes  :)

2019 Apr 28 08:45:28
Johann: Atma rejoices with the may who possible are able to see a death man walking toward the deathless, and have even occation for a lot of spontan merits.

2019 Apr 28 07:31:59
Cheav Villa: May​ Bhante be well  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_  The sky has been cloudy since 10:30am

2019 Apr 28 03:02:15
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 May Bhante Khemakumara walk(nimun) safely. _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Apr 27 20:51:41
Johann:  :)

2019 Apr 27 20:51:11
Johann: may it be cloudy (in the hot time) so that feet may be well

2019 Apr 27 17:53:19
Moritz: May Bhante travel safely. _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Apr 27 16:38:40
Cheav Villa: May​ the Mighty Devas protected Bhante Khemakumara along the path to Wat Sophea Khun  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Apr 27 16:03:29
Cheav Villa: ខ្ញុំ​កូណាបាន លឺថា ព្រះអង្គ​ Kemakumara នឹង​និមន្ត ចេញពី វត្ត​អកយំ​ នៅថ្ងៃស្អែក

2019 Apr 27 16:01:32
Cheav Villa: ថ្វាយបង្គំ​ព្រះអង្គ  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Apr 27 14:28:42
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

2019 Apr 27 06:55:13
Johann: Nyom Villa

2019 Apr 27 06:54:35
Cheav Villa:   _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Apr 27 06:31:42
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2019 Apr 27 06:09:34
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Apr 27 05:42:54
Moritz: _/\_

2019 Apr 27 00:54:04
Johann: A blessed and meritful halfmoon Sila-day

2019 Apr 25 07:32:44
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻អរព្រះគុណ ព្រះអង្គ

2019 Apr 25 04:42:51
Johann: Sokh chomreoun, Nyom. (May well-being come to fullfillment.)

2019 Apr 25 02:30:46
Ieng Puthy: តេីលោកRoman មានបំណងទៅវត្តអកយំនៅថ្ងៃណាដែរ?ព្រះអង្គ🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

2019 Apr 25 02:29:26
Ieng Puthy: ករុណានិង បងសុភឿន នឹងជូនលោកRoman ទៅវត្តអកយំបាន

2019 Apr 25 02:28:00
Ieng Puthy: ករុណានិង បង សុភឿន នឹងជួយស

2019 Apr 25 02:27:00
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻ករុណាថ្វាយបង្គំុព្រះអង្គ Vandami Bhante

2019 Apr 24 17:56:05
Cheav Villa: កូណា សរសេរពួកយើង​ គឺជំនួសមុខ​ បងពុទ្ធីនិងសុភឿន  _/\_

2019 Apr 24 17:54:42
Cheav Villa: បង​ពុទ្ធី បានអោយកូណាសួរអំពីពេលវេលា​ ដែលលោកRoman នឹងទៅអកយំ _/\_

2019 Apr 24 17:52:47
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_  កូណាបាន ប្រាប់បងពុទ្ធី និង​សុ​ភឿន ប្រសិនបើគាត់អាចជួយបាន ព្រោះកូណាមិនមានសេរីភាពច្រើនដូចពួកគាត់

2019 Apr 24 17:01:34
Johann: Modern (ab)art of conversation and old patient culture...  :) great training only serious take on and rushing hide on messanger, fb, or in the ocean of Maras internet. Mudita.  :)

2019 Apr 23 13:36:18
Cheav Villa: Kana :D _/\_

2019 Apr 23 13:24:57
Johann: ? But light is always good. Oh, maybe the honey bee candles...: Atma told Upasika Sophorn to take them with her to share, since the mices would eat them away here. Mudita

2019 Apr 23 12:52:51
Cheav Villa: Kana Preah Ang  _/\_ Vithou told kana that Bhante sending us a pair of candles all through Bang Sophorn  :D _/\_

2019 Apr 23 12:06:15
Johann: Nyom Villa. Atma does not understand all circumstances but much mudita and appreciantion with sharing merits with each other, taking each other along good.

2019 Apr 23 11:04:23
Cheav Villa: កូណា ទើបបានដំណឹងពី Vithou ថាព្រះអង្គផ្ញើទានមួយគូមក តាមរយៈ​បងសុភ័ណ​ ខ្ញុំកូណា​សូម​អរព្រះគុណ​  :) _/\_

2019 Apr 23 11:02:19
Cheav Villa: ថ្វាយបង្គំ​ព្រះអង្គ  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Apr 23 02:03:31
Johann: Nyom. (smilies of the common places are not visible here for many)

2019 Apr 22 17:36:16
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻ករុណាសូមថ្វាយបង្គំុ Vandami Bhante

2019 Apr 22 15:54:07
Cheav Villa: Master Moritz  _/\_

2019 Apr 22 15:03:17
Moritz: _/\_ Bong Villa

2019 Apr 20 07:30:33
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Apr 20 05:25:34
Moritz: _/\_ bong Vithou

2019 Apr 19 06:30:18
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2019 Apr 19 06:25:58
Moritz: _/\_ bong Villa

2019 Apr 19 06:25:48
Moritz: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante

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Author Topic: How ever much you do good, the bad person will never change.  (Read 2084 times)

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Offline gus

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Quote from: Guttila Kavyaya - A Sinhalese poem based on Guttila Jataka
How ever much you do good,
the bad person will never change.
like a coal washed in milk,
does not turn white.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2018, 01:52:33 AM by Johann »

Offline Johann

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Re: How ever much you do good, the bad person will never change.
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2018, 01:24:49 PM »
Deva gus

Such should not be approved. That's the teaching of bias, not understanding, and harmful for oneself and for many, slandering the Tathagata and those worthy to bow for in putting "Namo..." in relation with it.

Why?

Because:
1. there is no such as a inherent goodness or badness to be found anywhere.
2. You could be biased in judging of what is good and what is bad.
3. You could have an improper ārammaṇa to pick out of what is proper to judge.
4. You could be wrongly informed, be corrupted in regard of 1-4.

Ironical the Ninghantas, the Jains, starting with spreading a little metta in this and that direction, just that far, neglecting the use of person, dwelling in householder equanimity do not only try to make themselves attractive with such biased teachings, but have also success in gaining fools following them into Maras prison for a long long time.

And more ironical, they also have success to sell teachings like "beat me, tread me bad... I have metta..."

This is the teaching one catches those who have fallen into low states, those who like to destruct themselves, the petas, those who desided that they are bad and so they do not only love to punish themselves but also in interaction. That is why they are so successful in outward lands void of Arahats, apart from borderlands, drifting into the ozean of death.

So how should one tread people of which he either knows or thinks/assumes to have (still) harmful tendencies?

* Johann : If wishing to test and post something to get a judgement on it, it's not good to put "Namo" in connection with it. And it's not good to put a dispraise in connection with it. Does Deva gus understands the danger in doing otherwise, does Deva understand why one should not say "yes" if either not knowing or just for sociaicing, even cheating for best reason, if deliberated, promted, is a reason to totally get cut off. If having judged wrong, seeing later, correct and pardon it. If letting thing stand wrong, don't destroy the trap, if when ever later one falls into such a pitfall, the transgression is fullfilled, even you might have understood later on. Take care to put no pitfalls out to catch what you would like, since Deva would end up likewise, having fallen into the deep of a transgression an no more way to come up, out, nobody would help a "bad person" easilly.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2018, 01:35:56 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Re: How ever much you do good, the bad person will never change.
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2018, 04:27:41 PM »

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

7. Jigucchitabbasuttaṃ

Should be loathed

27. "Bhikkhus, these three persons are evident in the world. Which three? A certain person should be loathed, should not be associated. The second should be looked after not (closely!) associated and the third should be (closely!) associated.

Bhikkhus, which person should be loathed and not associated?

Here a certain person is unvirtuous, with evil thoughts like rubbish, with secret actions, with only a promise to recluseship, festering inside and filth oozing out. Bhikkhus, this kind of person should be loathed, should not be associated. What is the reason? In some way if this person is not imitated, ill fame spreads, this is an evil friend, an associate of evil. Just as a serpent with excreta on its body would not sting anyone, for he smears excreta. In the same manner an unvirtuous person with evil thoughts similar to rubbish, with secret actions, with only a promise to recluseship, festering inside and filth oozing out should be loathed, should not be associated.

"Bhikkhus, what kind of person should be carefully watched, not (closely!) associated?

Bhikkhus, a certain person is angry and has grudges. When a few words are told he becomes angry swears and retorts angrily showing anger and displeasure, like a festered sore touched by a clod or stone would ooze much pus. Or like a heap of rotting food in a monastery when hit with a clod or stone would give a hissing sound. Or like a heap of excreta when hit with a clod or stone would give an evil smell Bhikkhus, in like manner a person with a mind comparable to a sore is angry, has grudges and when a few words are told he becomes angry, swears and retorts angrily showing anger and displeasure. Bhikkhus, this person should be carefully watched, not (closely) associated. What is the reason? He may scold me, rebuke me (improper!) and do me (=good tendencies in my conducts, and conductive, needed sources present in me, not my defilements) some harm. Therefore this person should be carefully watched, not (closely) associated.

"Bhikkhus, what kind of person should be closely associated?

Here a certain person is virtuous, with good behaviour. Such a person should be associated closely. What is the reason? If for some reason this person is imitated, good fame spreads. He is a good friend, behaves well. Such a person should be associated. These three persons are evident in the world."

"Associating someone low is deterioration,
Associating an equal there's no deterioration
Therefore bend down to a superior,
It is quick growth."

"Be" (act) quick!"
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Re: How ever much you do good, the bad person will never change.
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2018, 04:54:21 PM »
And what are the times, what are the circumstances one should do good even if this person having bad tendencies or one suspects he has?

  • When ever one arrives
  • When one departs
  • When lacking of food
  • When sick
  • When performing actions which are praised and charming for the wise


And who could do good to a person having bad tendencies, is of use for "bad" to get purified?

One who has reached the homeless state may be of use, can give possibilities for purification. Can purify of what a "bad" person may give. Can purify with his compassionate acts, if the "bad" is able to receive his gifts. No matter if the one having reached homeless state might be the teacher or the student, the giver or receiver in certain relations and acts.

And what is a useless association, a waste of merits and time, when people, still having bad tendencies, having not reached the beggar state, housholder, entertain each other for becoming and resisting in Samsara. What ever gifts and sacrifies are made, what ever received is of low value, does neither purify on one or both sides and when trading with the Gems, with things of high value,  for their entertainments, for entertainings sake, then one can be sure that this is an association headed downward, one of the many highways to hell.

Is this understood? Is this penetrated? Are there doubts, further questions, Deva gus ?

Also in asking further, releasing doubt, getting clear and satified with what is conductive, be quick! Connections are not for sure and even the secure shore of the Domain of the Noble Ones not reached yet!

Be quick in leaving home, even for temporary times! Be firm in desiring for it and void householders domains as long as no proper distance like the shining moon can be maintained or has become naturally!

The moon is there as long as this world had not broken appart, be quick in searching for it and learn to trace him even when cloud are present, even if new moon is present. Be quick in learning how to trace his becoming and fading within your current ārammaṇa till you star to shine in distance for your self, weather traced, seen or rememdered by other living in outer lands, having drifted away.

Be quick in this regard no matter is you think that you are good or bad!

This is a field for merits, not for lazy, a camp to work and practice concentration. Be quick before the fields of merits may be gone for long long time.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2018, 05:12:19 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline gus

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Re: How ever much you do good, the bad person will never change.
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2018, 11:06:16 PM »
Okasa bhante,

I think the poem should not be taken literally. It just mean that there are bad men whom cannot be changed. I think it doesn't mean every bad men.
And yes, I shouldn't have used the dquote for that.
Khamatu me bhante!

Vandami.

Offline Johann

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Re: How ever much you do good, the bad person will never change.
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2018, 03:05:48 AM »
Deva gus ,

what ever pitfall Deva might have erected: try to remember where an "destroy" it, correct it, make it plane, so that nobody might get caught in it. Falls into it, get hurt or dies.
When it happens that someone get harmed or even lost, stepping into what Deva might has placed here or there: the transgression is complete.

Be quick!

* Johann : Atma changed Devas post in start in this regard, but it's not sure that there are always some who look after that being do not hurt each other. So care about the past to possible correct and transgression get not complete as long as possible an connection/access.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline gus

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Re: How ever much you do good, the bad person will never change.
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2018, 05:48:05 AM »
Okasa Bhante,
It is a good poem about ungrateful people though it is not perfect. It is not an evil one. There is an assumption that the reader is wise enough to grasp the meaning.
Vandami.

*  What to do when you oppose everything I do and say.

Offline Johann

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Re: How ever much you do good, the bad person will never change.
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2018, 06:11:31 AM »
Asura gus , assumption is already follish and the poem is biased, product of anger and motivates fools believing the Nighantas/Jain to cut themselves of and sick in the ozean on an island build on pride and conceit, woven by defilements.

Asura asking: "What to do when you oppose everything I do and say."

Maybe regard past deeds not as your own but just the results will cause another becoming (a good or bad) and having reflect on them, seen "oh real", let them behind, never pick up similar again? Try it, one who comes and looks (does) for himself will know. This requires a good birth, dukkha and Saddha. How to gain a good stand? To relay on ones own opinions...? Or by seeking Nissaya, having left home in the world behind?

Be (do) quick (what is skilful), your selfmade island is nearly no more to see from the outer shores.

Would a wise give such advices, if he holds on such foolish poems? Would a Buddha ever teach?
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Offline gus

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Re: How ever much you do good, the bad person will never change.
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2018, 06:26:55 AM »
Okasa,

Asura gus , .. believing the Nighantas/Jain .. sick in the ozean on an island .. build on pride and conceit, ..
Asura asking: ... your selfmade island ..

I think I have done huge demerits, so that monk always condemn me.
Okay, Consider me as a AMD. (Asura micca ditthiko)


Vandami.

Offline Johann

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Re: How ever much you do good, the bad person will never change.
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2018, 06:58:46 AM »
Does confused wanderer gus sees certain transgression and likes to come out of a whole or does he just like to BE, what ever think good to identify with?
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