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Talkbox

Like when enter or join, a shrine, another's sphere, or back: good for greating, bye, veneration, short talks, quick help. Some infos on regards .


2024 Mar 18 21:42:50
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Mar 18 19:43:59
Dhammañāṇa: Mudita, Nyom.

2024 Mar 18 19:36:35
blazer: Bhante Dhammañāṇa  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Undertaking this Sila day at my best.

2024 Mar 18 06:17:10
Dhammañāṇa: Those who undertake the Sila day today: may it be of much metta.

2024 Mar 18 02:16:41
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Mar 17 21:09:31
អរិយវង្ស: 🚬🚬🚬

2024 Mar 17 06:30:53
Dhammañāṇa: Metta-full Sila day, those after it today.

2024 Mar 17 00:02:34
blazer: Bhante Dhammañāṇa  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Mar 11 09:16:04
Dhammañāṇa: Once totally caught by google, AI and machines, every door has been closed for long, long term.

2024 Mar 11 09:14:04
Dhammañāṇa: People at large just wait that another would do his/her duty. Once a slight door to run back, they are gone. By going again just for debts, the wheel of running away turns on.

2024 Mar 10 18:59:10
Dhammañāṇa: Less are those who don't use the higher Dhamma not for defilement-defence, less those who don't throw the basics away and turn back to sensuality "with ease".

2024 Mar 10 06:51:11
Dhammañāṇa: A auspicious new-moon Uposatha for those observing it today.

2024 Mar 09 06:34:39
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed New-moon Uposatha, and birth reminder day of a monarchy of wonders.

2024 Mar 08 21:39:54
Dhammañāṇa: The best way to keep an Ashram silent is to put always duties and Sila high. If wishing it populated, put meditation (eating) on the first place.

2024 Mar 03 21:27:27
Dhammañāṇa: May those undertaking the Sila day today, spend it off in best ways, similar those who go after the days purpose tomorrow.

2024 Feb 25 22:10:33
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 24 06:42:35
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Māgha Pūjā and Full moon Uposatha with much reason for good recallings of goodness.

2024 Feb 24 01:50:55
blazer: Bhante Dhammañāṇa  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 23 06:39:57
Dhammañāṇa: Nyom

2024 Feb 23 00:19:58
blazer: Taken flu again... at least leg pain has been better managed since many weeks and it's the greatest benefit. Hope Bhante Dhammañāṇa is fine  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 18 01:06:43
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 18 00:02:37
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 17 18:47:31
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed rest of todays Sila-day.

2024 Feb 17 18:46:59
Dhammañāṇa: Chau Marco, chau...

2024 Feb 16 23:32:59
blazer: Just ended important burocratic and medical stuff. I will check for a flight for Cambodia soon  _/\_

2024 Feb 09 16:08:32
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 09 12:17:31
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 09 06:42:17
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a blessed New moon Uposatha and last day of the Chinese year of the rabbit, entering the Year of the Naga wisely.

2024 Feb 02 21:17:28
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 02 19:53:28
Dhammañāṇa: May all have the possibility to spend a pleasing rest of Sila day, having given goodness and spend a faultless day.

2024 Jan 26 14:40:25
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Jan 25 10:02:46
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a blessed Full moon Uposatha.

2024 Jan 11 06:37:21
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Jan 07 06:31:20
Dhammañāṇa: May many, by skilful deeds,  go for real and lasting independence today

2024 Jan 06 18:00:36
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Jan 04 16:57:17
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Jan 04 12:33:08
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Sila-day, full of metta in thoughts, speech and deeds.

2023 Dec 30 20:21:07
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Dec 27 23:18:38
Dhammañāṇa: May the rest of a bright full moon Uposatha serve many as a blessed day of good deeds.

2023 Dec 26 23:12:17
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Dec 24 16:52:50
Dhammañāṇa: May all who celebrated the birth of their prophet, declaring them his ideas of reaching the Brahma realm, spend peaceful days with family and reflect the goodness near around them, virtuous, generously.

2023 Dec 20 21:36:37
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Dec 20 06:54:09
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Sila day, by conducting in peacefull manners.

2023 Dec 12 23:45:24
blazer:  _/\_

2023 Dec 12 20:34:26
Dhammañāṇa: choice, yes  :)

2023 Dec 12 13:23:35
blazer: If meaning freedom of choice i understand and agree

2023 Dec 12 12:48:42
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Dec 12 06:13:23
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a great New Moon Uposatha, following the conducts of the Arahats.

2023 Dec 10 12:51:16
Dhammañāṇa: The more freedom of joice, the more troubled in regard of what's right, what's wrong. My person does not say that people at large are prepared for freedom of joice even a little.

2023 Dec 10 10:59:42
blazer: Hope they eat more mindfully than how they talk. It is clear for the gross food, we had more than a talk about this topic. I have put so much effort in mindful eating at the temple, but when i was back i wanted more refined food. I was used to get a choice of more than 10 dishes every day

2023 Dec 10 06:57:44
Dhammañāṇa: A person eating on unskilled thoughts will last defiled, Nyom. Gross food does nothing for purification at all.

2023 Dec 09 21:41:58
blazer: I've had a couple of not nice experiences with monks that were not so pure in my opinion. They surely eat far better than me at temple.

2023 Dec 09 21:41:41
blazer: Ven. Johann  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Dec 09 11:38:36
Dhammañāṇa: Spiritual prostitution, just another way of livelihood.

2023 Dec 05 20:59:38
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a pleasing rest of Sila-day.

2023 Nov 27 14:47:22
អរិយវង្ស:   _/\_ _/\__/\_

2023 Nov 27 05:41:32
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a blessed Anapanasati- Fullmoon and reflect the goodness of Ven Sāriputta as well today.

2023 Nov 20 19:18:13
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Nov 20 18:20:15
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a pleasing rest of Sila-day.

2023 Nov 20 02:48:24
Moritz: Hello _/\_ Still possible to join: An-other Journey into the East 2023/24

2023 Nov 18 13:55:11
blazer: Hello everyone  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Nov 12 01:09:01
Dhammañāṇa: Nyom

2023 Nov 12 00:45:21
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Nov 09 19:42:10
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Nov 09 07:17:02
Dhammañāṇa: សិលា​នាំ​ទៅ​រក​ឯករាជ្យ​នៃ​ជាតិ! សូមឱ្យមនុស្សជាច្រើនប្រារព្ធទិវាឯករាជ្យ(ពី)ជាតិ។

2023 Nov 09 07:06:56
Dhammañāṇa: Sila leads to independence of Jati! May many observe a conductive Independence day.

2023 Nov 07 00:54:02
Dhammañāṇa: Nyoum

2023 Nov 07 00:39:55
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Nov 06 15:47:51
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Nov 06 12:21:27
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Sila observation day today.

2023 Oct 30 15:17:36
Dhammañāṇa: It's common in to give up that what's given to do assist me toward release, common that seeking security in what binds.

2023 Oct 30 13:22:27
អរិយវង្ស: ព្រះអង្គ :) កូណាលុប delta chat ហើយ :D _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Oct 23 18:56:09
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Oct 22 20:36:01
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a pleasing rest of this Sila-day.

2023 Oct 19 20:31:12
Dhammañāṇa: Nyom Sreyneang

2023 Oct 15 07:07:01
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Oct 14 06:53:21
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a New moon Uposatha based on goodwill for all, find seclusion in the middle of family duties.

2023 Sep 29 07:35:30
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Sep 29 07:23:47
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Sep 29 07:03:11
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed full moon Uposatha and begin of the ancestor weeks by lived metta and virtue: lived gratitude toward all being, toward one self.

2023 Sep 22 22:07:43
Dhammañāṇa: If no rush turn toward reducing sensuality and make Silas the top of priority, it's to fear that an Atomic conflic will be chosen soon, in the battle of control of the "drugs".

2023 Sep 22 14:59:39
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Sep 22 06:35:51
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Uposatha Observance on this Sila-day, by conducting similar the Arahats.

2023 Sep 16 19:29:27
blazer: Ven. Johann  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Sep 16 19:29:13
blazer: Hello everyone! I've just come back home. I had a long trip and no sleep for more than 30 hours, but currently feel quite good. I've had a good experience, i'm happy. I've found out much inspiration and many ideas about the training and the holy life. I'll recollect and write about them as soon as i've taken some rest. Hope to find you all well and in good health  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Sep 15 05:25:24
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Sep 14 21:09:49
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed rest of New moon Uposatha today (later as no connection before).

2023 Sep 10 01:55:47
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_?

2023 Sep 09 18:52:54
Dhammañāṇa: No existence, no 'way of life', can excel the finally journey, just 'busy' in given away all of what ever made one's own. A total remorse-less existence. May many go for it, and see the way toward the deathless, no more worry of past, future and present as well.

2023 Sep 09 18:52:28
Dhammañāṇa: No existence, no 'way of life', can excel the finally journey, just 'busy' in given away all of what ever made one's own. A total remorse-less existence. May many go for it, and see the way toward the deathless, no more worry of past, future and present as well.

2023 Sep 08 06:19:20
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Sila day, by maintaining goodwill toward all, not only by deeds and speech, but with nine factors, incl. a mind full of metta.

2023 Sep 01 10:54:43
អរិយវង្ស: សាធុ សាធុ សាធុ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Sep 01 09:21:09
Dhammañāṇa:  “This verse was stated by earlier worthy ones, fully self-awakened:    Freedom from disease: the foremost good fortune. Unbinding: the foremost ease. The eightfold: the foremost of paths going to the Deathless, Secure.

2023 Sep 01 09:19:23
Dhammañāṇa: 'Ārogyaparamā lābhā nibbānaṃ paramaṃ sukhaṃ, Aṭṭhaṅgiko ca maggānaṃ khemaṃ amatagāmina'nti.   អារោគ្យបរមា លាភា និព្ពានំ បរមំ សុខំ អដ្ថងិកោ ច មគ្គានំ ខេមំ អមតគាមិន នតិ។  លាភទាំងឡាយ មានការមិនមានរោគ ដ៏ប្រសើរបំផុត ព្រះនិព្វាន ជាសុខដ៏ឧត្តម មគ្គប្រកបដោយអង្គ៨ ដ៏ក្សេមក្សាន្តជាងមគ្គទាំងឡាយ សម្រាប់ដំណើរ ទៅកាន់​ព្រះនិព្វាន ឈ្មោះអមតៈ។

2023 Aug 31 06:30:11
អរិយវង្ស: សាធុ សាធុ សាធុ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Aug 31 06:08:15
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Fullmoon Uposatha, following the Arahats conducts.

2023 Aug 30 20:19:25
Dhammañāṇa: Nyom

2023 Aug 30 18:39:38
blazer: Hello everyone  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Aug 24 19:56:43
Dhammañāṇa: Sadhu, Sadhu and mudita

2023 Aug 24 19:45:08
អរិយវង្ស: កូណា បាននាំគ្រួសាររក្សាសីល8ក្នុងថ្ងៃនេះ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_😌

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Author Topic: How ever much you do good, the bad person will never change.  (Read 2693 times)

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Offline gus

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Quote from: Guttila Kavyaya - A Sinhalese poem based on Guttila Jataka
How ever much you do good,
the bad person will never change.
like a coal washed in milk,
does not turn white.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2018, 06:52:33 AM by Johann »

Offline Dhammañāṇa

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  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527 Upasampadā 20240110
Re: How ever much you do good, the bad person will never change.
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2018, 06:24:49 PM »
Deva gus

Such should not be approved. That's the teaching of bias, not understanding, and harmful for oneself and for many, slandering the Tathagata and those worthy to bow for in putting "Namo..." in relation with it.

Why?

Because:
1. there is no such as a inherent goodness or badness to be found anywhere.
2. You could be biased in judging of what is good and what is bad.
3. You could have an improper ārammaṇa to pick out of what is proper to judge.
4. You could be wrongly informed, be corrupted in regard of 1-4.

Ironical the Ninghantas, the Jains, starting with spreading a little metta in this and that direction, just that far, neglecting the use of person, dwelling in householder equanimity do not only try to make themselves attractive with such biased teachings, but have also success in gaining fools following them into Maras prison for a long long time.

And more ironical, they also have success to sell teachings like "beat me, tread me bad... I have metta..."

This is the teaching one catches those who have fallen into low states, those who like to destruct themselves, the petas, those who desided that they are bad and so they do not only love to punish themselves but also in interaction. That is why they are so successful in outward lands void of Arahats, apart from borderlands, drifting into the ozean of death.

So how should one tread people of which he either knows or thinks/assumes to have (still) harmful tendencies?

* Johann : If wishing to test and post something to get a judgement on it, it's not good to put "Namo" in connection with it. And it's not good to put a dispraise in connection with it. Does Deva gus understands the danger in doing otherwise, does Deva understand why one should not say "yes" if either not knowing or just for sociaicing, even cheating for best reason, if deliberated, promted, is a reason to totally get cut off. If having judged wrong, seeing later, correct and pardon it. If letting thing stand wrong, don't destroy the trap, if when ever later one falls into such a pitfall, the transgression is fullfilled, even you might have understood later on. Take care to put no pitfalls out to catch what you would like, since Deva would end up likewise, having fallen into the deep of a transgression an no more way to come up, out, nobody would help a "bad person" easilly.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2018, 06:35:56 PM by Johann »
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Re: How ever much you do good, the bad person will never change.
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2018, 09:27:41 PM »

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

7. Jigucchitabbasuttaṃ

Should be loathed

27. "Bhikkhus, these three persons are evident in the world. Which three? A certain person should be loathed, should not be associated. The second should be looked after not (closely!) associated and the third should be (closely!) associated.

Bhikkhus, which person should be loathed and not associated?

Here a certain person is unvirtuous, with evil thoughts like rubbish, with secret actions, with only a promise to recluseship, festering inside and filth oozing out. Bhikkhus, this kind of person should be loathed, should not be associated. What is the reason? In some way if this person is not imitated, ill fame spreads, this is an evil friend, an associate of evil. Just as a serpent with excreta on its body would not sting anyone, for he smears excreta. In the same manner an unvirtuous person with evil thoughts similar to rubbish, with secret actions, with only a promise to recluseship, festering inside and filth oozing out should be loathed, should not be associated.

"Bhikkhus, what kind of person should be carefully watched, not (closely!) associated?

Bhikkhus, a certain person is angry and has grudges. When a few words are told he becomes angry swears and retorts angrily showing anger and displeasure, like a festered sore touched by a clod or stone would ooze much pus. Or like a heap of rotting food in a monastery when hit with a clod or stone would give a hissing sound. Or like a heap of excreta when hit with a clod or stone would give an evil smell Bhikkhus, in like manner a person with a mind comparable to a sore is angry, has grudges and when a few words are told he becomes angry, swears and retorts angrily showing anger and displeasure. Bhikkhus, this person should be carefully watched, not (closely) associated. What is the reason? He may scold me, rebuke me (improper!) and do me (=good tendencies in my conducts, and conductive, needed sources present in me, not my defilements) some harm. Therefore this person should be carefully watched, not (closely) associated.

"Bhikkhus, what kind of person should be closely associated?

Here a certain person is virtuous, with good behaviour. Such a person should be associated closely. What is the reason? If for some reason this person is imitated, good fame spreads. He is a good friend, behaves well. Such a person should be associated. These three persons are evident in the world."

"Associating someone low is deterioration,
Associating an equal there's no deterioration
Therefore bend down to a superior,
It is quick growth."

"Be" (act) quick!"
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Re: How ever much you do good, the bad person will never change.
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2018, 09:54:21 PM »
And what are the times, what are the circumstances one should do good even if this person having bad tendencies or one suspects he has?

  • When ever one arrives
  • When one departs
  • When lacking of food
  • When sick
  • When performing actions which are praised and charming for the wise


And who could do good to a person having bad tendencies, is of use for "bad" to get purified?

One who has reached the homeless state may be of use, can give possibilities for purification. Can purify of what a "bad" person may give. Can purify with his compassionate acts, if the "bad" is able to receive his gifts. No matter if the one having reached homeless state might be the teacher or the student, the giver or receiver in certain relations and acts.

And what is a useless association, a waste of merits and time, when people, still having bad tendencies, having not reached the beggar state, housholder, entertain each other for becoming and resisting in Samsara. What ever gifts and sacrifies are made, what ever received is of low value, does neither purify on one or both sides and when trading with the Gems, with things of high value,  for their entertainments, for entertainings sake, then one can be sure that this is an association headed downward, one of the many highways to hell.

Is this understood? Is this penetrated? Are there doubts, further questions, Deva gus ?

Also in asking further, releasing doubt, getting clear and satified with what is conductive, be quick! Connections are not for sure and even the secure shore of the Domain of the Noble Ones not reached yet!

Be quick in leaving home, even for temporary times! Be firm in desiring for it and void householders domains as long as no proper distance like the shining moon can be maintained or has become naturally!

The moon is there as long as this world had not broken appart, be quick in searching for it and learn to trace him even when cloud are present, even if new moon is present. Be quick in learning how to trace his becoming and fading within your current ārammaṇa till you star to shine in distance for your self, weather traced, seen or rememdered by other living in outer lands, having drifted away.

Be quick in this regard no matter is you think that you are good or bad!

This is a field for merits, not for lazy, a camp to work and practice concentration. Be quick before the fields of merits may be gone for long long time.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2018, 10:12:19 PM by Johann »
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Re: How ever much you do good, the bad person will never change.
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2018, 04:06:16 AM »
Okasa bhante,

I think the poem should not be taken literally. It just mean that there are bad men whom cannot be changed. I think it doesn't mean every bad men.
And yes, I shouldn't have used the dquote for that.
Khamatu me bhante!

Vandami.

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Re: How ever much you do good, the bad person will never change.
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2018, 08:05:48 AM »
Deva gus ,

what ever pitfall Deva might have erected: try to remember where an "destroy" it, correct it, make it plane, so that nobody might get caught in it. Falls into it, get hurt or dies.
When it happens that someone get harmed or even lost, stepping into what Deva might has placed here or there: the transgression is complete.

Be quick!

* Johann : Atma changed Devas post in start in this regard, but it's not sure that there are always some who look after that being do not hurt each other. So care about the past to possible correct and transgression get not complete as long as possible an connection/access.
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Re: How ever much you do good, the bad person will never change.
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2018, 10:48:05 AM »
Okasa Bhante,
It is a good poem about ungrateful people though it is not perfect. It is not an evil one. There is an assumption that the reader is wise enough to grasp the meaning.
Vandami.

*  What to do when you oppose everything I do and say.

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Re: How ever much you do good, the bad person will never change.
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2018, 11:11:31 AM »
Asura gus , assumption is already follish and the poem is biased, product of anger and motivates fools believing the Nighantas/Jain to cut themselves of and sick in the ozean on an island build on pride and conceit, woven by defilements.

Asura asking: "What to do when you oppose everything I do and say."

Maybe regard past deeds not as your own but just the results will cause another becoming (a good or bad) and having reflect on them, seen "oh real", let them behind, never pick up similar again? Try it, one who comes and looks (does) for himself will know. This requires a good birth, dukkha and Saddha. How to gain a good stand? To relay on ones own opinions...? Or by seeking Nissaya, having left home in the world behind?

Be (do) quick (what is skilful), your selfmade island is nearly no more to see from the outer shores.

Would a wise give such advices, if he holds on such foolish poems? Would a Buddha ever teach?
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Re: How ever much you do good, the bad person will never change.
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2018, 11:26:55 AM »
Okasa,

Asura gus , .. believing the Nighantas/Jain .. sick in the ozean on an island .. build on pride and conceit, ..
Asura asking: ... your selfmade island ..

I think I have done huge demerits, so that monk always condemn me.
Okay, Consider me as a AMD. (Asura micca ditthiko)


Vandami.

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Re: How ever much you do good, the bad person will never change.
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2018, 11:58:46 AM »
Does confused wanderer gus sees certain transgression and likes to come out of a whole or does he just like to BE, what ever think good to identify with?
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