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Author Topic: Comming into being and decay of Guru-relations  (Read 2991 times)

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Offline gus

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Comming into being and decay of Guru-relations
« on: September 28, 2018, 06:43:12 PM »

Aramika   *

Dieses neue Thema (bzw. diese/r Beitrag/e) wurde  aus abgetrennten Beiträgen, ursprünglich in Spiritual tourism and consume , hinzugefügt. Für ev. ergänzende Informationen zur sehen Sie bitte das Ursprugsthema ein. Anumodana!

[Original post:]


Okasa bhante,

That's the problem of many good teacher who thing that accepting certain dependency outside the Sangha and tend more on laypeople who possible take more care and a longer time.

That's a big failure and the reason why great teachers lineages last mostly just one generation: why? they give the heritage to householder (to look for householders of them) and with it it's gone.

That is why even in a high state possition one should not make sacrifices downwardly in an improper amount.
I have thought many times why great teachers lineages last mostly just one generation. What I suspected as the reasons were the below.
  • Many great teachers had developed themselves in the path through an considerably independent practice but the student is highly dependent. So the student doesn't have the real experiences of the teacher.
  • Cunning students and dependents live with him extended periods and capture the power within the teacher's establishment. Real successor students have to step back.
  • Dependency on lay people. - some times for security and some times for gain.
  • Not having (impossible) the Buddha's Asayanusaya Gnana. - Difficulty of seeing the correct successors to convey power.
  • Non forest tendency. - Village monasteries are susceptible to the powers of the government, lay people and country's main sangha leaders/councils.
  • Not stressing the vinaya related to lay connections strongly. - Students little by little start comforting.
  • Expecting a extravagant obedience or dependency from students for every opinion of the teacher - Some good students leave then.

Are these acceptable?

Vandami.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 05:45:30 PM by Johann »

Offline Johann

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Aramika   *

Ein oder mehrer Beiträge wurden hier im Thema abgeschnitten und damit in neues Thema "On getting in touch with kalyanamittas and share ones family in Dhamma, connect " eröffnet, dem angehäng.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Re: Comming into being and decay of Guru-relations
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2018, 12:46:45 AM »

Are these acceptable?

Vandami.

Yes they are, wanderer gus . Maybe one in addition, althought maybe difficult to grasp.

A very attribute of "leaders", that who lead to liberation, a Buddha attribute, is that they don't get attached to their following and are not able to get corrupt because of their following and becoming, further existence of a follower heritage, didn't made it their central task but just give of what is possible to give in certain circumstances, certain relations. Never giving the change to take their Brahma-realms as real and the aim but simply as a sphere, a work and concentration camp conductive to go beyond.

Actually, th Buddhas heritage lasted, lasts by not promoting, not giving space to Guru-branches but sticking to the tripple gems and nothing else.

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

"What do you think, Bhikkhus, what kind of Bhikkhu is giving teaching on Dhamma impurely, and what kind of Bhikkhu is giving teaching on Dhamma purely?"

"Venerable Sir, the techings are rooted in the Blessed One, leaded by the Blessed One, having the Blessed One as protector. It would be good if the Blessed One would make the meaning delightful clear. Learned by the Blessed One, the Bhikkhus will bear it in mind."

"Then, Bhikkhus, listen and pay close attention, I will speak."

"Yes, venerable Sir," the Bhikkhus replayed to the Blessed One. The Blessed One spoke thus:

"There is the case, Bhikkhus, that a Bhikkhu teaches the Dhamma, thinking: 'Oh, may they listen to the Dhamma from me. Having learned my Dhamma, may they be settled in believe in it. Having been settled in believe in it, may they show their settlement in believe," this is a kind of Bhikkhu, Bhikkhus, who is giving teaching on Dhamma impurely.

There is the case, Bhikkhus, that a Bhikkhu teaches the Dhamma, thinking: 'The Dhamma of the Blessed One is well taught, direct visible, timeless, inviting to come and see, appropriate, to be self-experianced by the wise. Oh, may they listen to the Dhamma from me. Having learned the Dhamma, may they understand. Having understood the Dhamma, may they practice accordingly.' So he teaches the Dhamma because of the excellence nature of the Dhamma; he teaches the Dhamma out of compassion and kindness, out of pity. This is a kind of Bhikkhu, Bhikkhus, who is giving teaching on Dhamma purely.

Kassapa, Bhikkhus, teaches the Dhamma, thinking: 'The Dhamma of the Blessed One is well taught, direct visible, timeless, inviting to come and see, appropriate, to be self-experianced by the wise. Oh, may they listen to the Dhamma from me. Having learned the Dhamma, may they understand. Having understood the Dhamma, may they practice accordingly.' He teaches the Dhamma because of the excellence nature of the Dhamma; he teaches the Dhamma out of compassion and kindness, out of pity.

Bhikkhus, I advice you by the sample of Kassapa, or one who is similar to Kassapa's kind. Being adviced, you should practice in this way.

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

The Four Great References

7. And there the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Now, bhikkhus, I shall make known to you the four great references. [37] Listen and pay heed to my words." And those bhikkhus answered, saying:

"So be it, Lord."

8-11. Then the Blessed One said: "In this fashion, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu might speak: 'Face to face with the Blessed One, brethren, I have heard and learned thus: This is the Dhamma and the Discipline, the Master's Dispensation'; or: 'In an abode of such and such a name lives a community with elders and a chief. Face to face with that community, I have heard and learned thus: This is the Dhamma and the Discipline, the Master's Dispensation'; or: 'In an abode of such and such a name live several bhikkhus who are elders, who are learned, who have accomplished their course, who are preservers of the Dhamma, the Discipline, and the Summaries. Face to face with those elders, I have heard and learned thus: This is the Dhamma and the Discipline, the Master's Dispensation'; or: 'In an abode of such and such a name lives a single bhikkhu who is an elder, who is learned, who has accomplished his course, who is a preserver of the Dhamma, the Discipline, and the Summaries. Face to face with that elder, I have heard and learned thus: This is the Dhamma and the Discipline, the Master's Dispensation.'

"In such a case, bhikkhus, the declaration of such a bhikkhu is neither to be received with approval nor with scorn. Without approval and without scorn, but carefully studying the sentences word by word, one should trace them in the Discourses and verify them by the Discipline. If they are neither traceable in the Discourses nor verifiable by the Discipline, one must conclude thus: 'Certainly, this is not the Blessed One's utterance; this has been misunderstood by that bhikkhu — or by that community, or by those elders, or by that elder.' In that way, bhikkhus, you should reject it. But if the sentences concerned are traceable in the Discourses and verifiable by the Discipline, then one must conclude thus: 'Certainly, this is the Blessed One's utterance; this has been well understood by that bhikkhu — or by that community, or by those elders, or by that elder.' And in that way, bhikkhus, you may accept it on the first, second, third, or fourth reference. These, bhikkhus, are the four great references for you to preserve."
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 12:59:20 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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Plauderbox

 

Cheav Villa

December 14, 2018, 02:06:47 PM
_/\_  _/\_  _/\_
 

Johann

December 14, 2018, 01:54:10 PM
Better, yes. Lesser fibre, only soft malary attacks seemingly ending. Abscesses going to an end, flu nearly gone and some time walk outside, some
more strength, as well already. Best supported by those near and far, direct, indirect. Sadhu Nyom Villa, Nyom Sophorn.
 

Cheav Villa

December 14, 2018, 01:50:17 PM
Vandami Bhante _/\_
Tomorrow early morning
Vithou, His brotherinlaw and Kana's brother Virak they will leave at 5am to Aural wished to visit Bhante and offering some medecines_/\_
 

Cheav Villa

December 13, 2018, 01:39:00 PM
ព្រះអង្គបានធូរខ្លះហេីយ _/\_
 

Sophorn

December 11, 2018, 04:43:02 PM
 :-* :-* :-*
May Bhante recover fast again
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

December 10, 2018, 12:22:01 PM
...many.May Nyom Sokdina let it be known if he desires for an explaining of why modern ideas and demanding go not at all in conformity with the Buddhas Dhamma but are at large leading downwardly.
 

Johann

December 10, 2018, 12:06:17 PM
Thinking in therms of rights is grave wrong view, miccha ditthi. And there are times when voting is not usefull. Of cause people who go after such ideas simply search for relexation, fun and joy and will be not satisfied by the Dhamma, Nyom Sokdina. Don't follow fools and see the many goodness of ma
 

Kong Sokdina

December 10, 2018, 10:33:43 AM
ថ្វាយបង្គំព្រះអង្គ!
Human rigths!
Women rigths,
Children rights,
Democrecy;
We know the right to do. I use self-reflaction to our mind what are something in. The right way is a good way all wr wish. I have to g
ask you about the breath relaxation, meditatii
 

Cheav Villa

December 10, 2018, 09:43:12 AM
សូមព្រះអង្គបានសម្រាក និងឆាន់ថ្នាំ សូមព្រះអង្គឆាប់ធូរស្បេីយពីរោគា
_/\_
 

Johann

December 10, 2018, 09:12:24 AM
Krun Chan did the arriving appear faster and binds to rest. Everything fine, dhammata.
 

Sophorn

December 10, 2018, 07:03:39 AM
 :-* :-* :-* kana is good. Kana assumes Bhante arrived well at Thmor Touk again.
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

December 09, 2018, 02:16:13 PM
Upanissaya, Nyom Villa... "accidents"...
 

Cheav Villa

December 09, 2018, 02:08:10 PM
ថ្វាយបង្គំព្រះអង្គ _/\_
 :D កូណាស្មនត្រូវថាព្រះអង្គនឹងត្រឡប់ទៅដល់អាស្រមវិញនាល្ងាចថ្ងៃអាទិត្យនេះ _/\_
 

Khemakumara

December 09, 2018, 01:33:19 AM
Nyom Sophorn, everything is fine!  How is nyom?
 

Sophorn

December 08, 2018, 05:40:28 PM
 :-* :-* :-* vandami Bhante Khemakura, how is Bhante?
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Sophorn

December 08, 2018, 05:40:24 PM
 :-* :-* :-* vandami Bhante Khemakura, how is Bhante?
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Cheav Villa

December 07, 2018, 01:18:12 PM
Kana Preah Ang _/\_
 

Khemakumara

December 07, 2018, 01:10:24 PM
Nyom Cheav Villa
 

Cheav Villa

December 05, 2018, 02:54:44 PM
Kana thought Bhante Johann could have left Watt Ayum on Tuesday morning _/\_
 

Cheav Villa

December 05, 2018, 12:04:44 PM
ព្រះអង្គ​Inddanano _/\_
 

Kong Sokdina

December 04, 2018, 11:52:14 AM
Sadhu! Kana Prah Ang;
There are many ways to wash & clean the all minds, Preah konmchas; i had been taught by prf. from Spain with theory & practice as well since 2006-2009 and i also let my clients to do like whatever you have told me right now. For me at this time; it should use cognitive behavio
 

Khemakumara

December 03, 2018, 05:06:22 PM
Sadhu!  Möge es Nyom Roman und Nyom Moritz gut er-gehen!
 

Moritz

December 03, 2018, 05:03:40 PM
Ebenso _/\_
 

Roman

December 03, 2018, 04:58:02 PM
ich wünsche Allen einen friedevollen Abend!
 

Roman

December 03, 2018, 04:55:34 PM
Guten Abend Moritz und Bhante Khemakumara
 

Khemakumara

December 03, 2018, 04:54:47 PM
Nyom Moritz Nyom Roman
 

Moritz

December 03, 2018, 04:45:52 PM
Vandami, Bhante Indaññano and Bhante Khemakumara _/\_
 

Cheav Villa

December 03, 2018, 12:05:41 PM
Kana Prah Ang  :D _/\_
 

Khemakumara

December 03, 2018, 12:01:58 PM
Nyom Cheav Villa
 

Johann

December 03, 2018, 09:37:36 AM
Nyom Sokdina. It would be good if Nyom could participate on the up-coming Meditation week-end at Wat Akyum to clean the mind.
 

Kong Sokdina

December 03, 2018, 02:15:52 AM
Nyoms! Last night, a gouhter is affect by irritable cougbhing so it disurbance to sleep.
 

Kong Sokdina

December 03, 2018, 02:11:21 AM
Sadhu! Thanks!
It is just  tried to give up & burn out of bad spiritul inside. Your Wishes isi good for all.
 

Sophorn

December 02, 2018, 08:48:58 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
may you recover well and fast  :-* :-* :-*
 

Kong Sokdina

December 02, 2018, 02:18:46 AM
Respectfully
Today, my is ill with lower blood pressure & blurred sion. But she tries to see because she really praises excellent merit, moral & virtue. How do you think  , as humanbeing?
 

Cheav Villa

December 01, 2018, 12:29:08 PM
 :o ព្រះអង្គស្រេងអាចនឹងដំឡេីងកម្មវិធីទាំងអស់នោះវិញបាននៅពេលក្រោយ ព្រះអង្គ _/\_
 

Johann

December 01, 2018, 12:16:35 PM
Not easy, but Atma has now erased all facebook, messenger.. apps on Bhantes device. Maybe possible to prepar the old Sangha-laptop in proper ways for him.
 

Johann

December 01, 2018, 07:58:21 AM
If wishing, you could use the Pali-language forum, http://sangham.net/index.php/board,26.0.html for your lessons.
 

Cheav Villa

December 01, 2018, 06:57:19 AM
 :D _/\_
 

Johann

December 01, 2018, 06:48:05 AM
.. was written by Johann
 

Indaññāno

December 01, 2018, 06:45:34 AM
It's good to make everything that Huang's may not use messenger and things like Facebook! Of course there is support (given support) needed to do so. Don't pull monks into the worlds markets and ways.
 

Cheav Villa

December 01, 2018, 06:00:30 AM
Kuna Prah Ang  :D _/\_
 

Johann

December 01, 2018, 05:22:57 AM
Bhante is just taking his meal, Nyom.
 

Cheav Villa

December 01, 2018, 04:40:17 AM
ព្រះអង្គ ឥន្ទញាណោ _/\_
 

Sophorn

November 30, 2018, 11:20:52 AM
 :-* :-* :-* sadhu and mudita to hear so.
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Cheav Villa

November 30, 2018, 05:52:17 AM
Sadhu _/\_
 

Johann

November 30, 2018, 05:43:37 AM
Everything "fine", better Dhammata, Nyom. Atma met Nyom. His mind is attentive, he could listen and its up to his own further investigation, blessed, being bound to care only about his breath for the time left.
 

Cheav Villa

November 29, 2018, 02:05:44 PM
តេីសុខភាពពិបាកទ្រាំ ដែរទេព្រះអង្គ? និងលោកតាឧបាសក?
 

Cheav Villa

November 29, 2018, 02:01:01 PM
ថ្វាយបង្គំព្រះអង្គ  :D
_/\_
 

Cheav Villa

November 29, 2018, 02:01:01 PM
ថ្វាយបង្គំព្រះអង្គ  :D
_/\_
 

Khemakumara

November 29, 2018, 11:10:38 AM
Sadhu

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