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Talkbox

2019 Mar 20 19:02:36
Johann: May Nyom have a safe and careful travel, when ever he might do.

2019 Mar 20 18:46:53
Johann: Now, Nyom Moritz and Nyom Sophorn are here in the forest. Atma does not know how long.

2019 Mar 20 18:20:42
Vithou: Nyom Kuna planning to see Moritz and Bong Sophorn as well

2019 Mar 20 18:17:26
Vithou: Nyom Kuna planning to go Phnom Oral on Sunday

2019 Mar 20 18:16:07
Vithou: Nyom Kuna was sick too long after remove kidney stone . ( about 2 months ) and skittle busy with human job

2019 Mar 20 18:13:50
Vithou: Is Moritz and Bong Sophorn at Asram now?

2019 Mar 20 18:12:02
Vithou: Kuna Preah Ang

2019 Mar 20 18:05:01
Johann: Nyom Vithou

2019 Mar 20 12:25:25
Johann: here and now

2019 Mar 20 09:04:34
Cheav Villa: To reach the end of the cosmos to go beyond   _/\_

2019 Mar 20 08:49:03
Johann: Oh.. wrong, here: Rohitassa Sutta

2019 Mar 20 08:45:24
Johann: There is nothing to far that the mind, oneself, could not reach it in the Universe. Yet end of suffering can not found. But it requires to reach the end of the cosmos to go beyound. Lokayatika Sutta

2019 Mar 20 08:14:55
Chanroth:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Mar 20 06:34:16
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻ករុណាសូមថ្វាយបង្គំុ Vandami Bhante ពីចំងាយ

2019 Mar 20 06:32:27
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 សាធុុ សាធុ សាធុ! ថ្ងៃឧបោសថ ករុណាសូមចូលរួមត្រេកអរដែរ😇🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

2019 Mar 20 06:13:30
Johann: Mudita

2019 Mar 20 05:52:37
Cheav Villa: ថ្ងៃឧបោសថ​  :)​ កូណាចូលរួមត្រេកអរដល់សេរីភាពរបស់ពួកគាត់  _/\_

2019 Mar 19 13:56:41
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2019 Mar 19 08:47:34
Johann: Knowing this, one is able to share family (of supporter), honor, dwelling, gains, dhamma, having a clear sense of gratitude.

2019 Mar 19 08:44:19
Johann: And what is the reason of macchariya disapearing? Knowning, remembering, form, sound...ideas are no refuge, not real, not worthy to fall for, not ones own.

2019 Mar 19 08:41:50
Johann: "May macchariya (stinginess) become its needed reduce, so that the goodness of Dhamma may reaches more intensive", is that right translated? Sadhu. Not an easy task althought one might think.

2019 Mar 19 08:07:30
Cheav Villa: សូមអោយមច្ឆរិយ.​ ត្រូវបានកាត់បន្ថយ ដើម្បីគុណធម៌ដែលខ្ពស់ជាង _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Mar 19 01:39:39
Johann: May all have always a good travel, meet each other in best furtune along there ways. May no one get hurt in the traffic after happiness.

2019 Mar 18 10:21:51
Moritz: hello empty yogi _/\_

2019 Mar 18 10:21:23
Moritz: Vandami bhante _/\_

2019 Mar 18 10:21:22
Moritz: Vandami bhante _/\_

2019 Mar 16 08:19:42
Johann:  _/\_ Bhante Indannano

2019 Mar 15 04:20:37
Johann: Nyom Buddhi

2019 Mar 14 16:00:28
Cheav Villa: កូណា​ថ្វាយបង្គំ​លា​ សូមព្រះអង្គឆាប់បានសំរាក​  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Mar 14 09:13:11
Kong Sokdina: Hello!

2019 Mar 14 08:35:17
Johann: Nyom Kong Sokdina

2019 Mar 14 08:10:07
Johann: A meritful Sila-day those who observe it today

2019 Mar 13 11:18:19
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Mar 13 09:23:36
Johann: A meritful Sila-day those who observe it today, btw.

2019 Mar 10 02:03:42
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2019 Mar 09 07:45:59
Moritz: Good morning, Cheav Villa _/\_

2019 Mar 07 12:10:15
Cheav Villa: កូណាព្រះអង្គ  _/\_

2019 Mar 07 12:05:44
Johann: My person is not sure but Nyom Chanroths wife might try to go back from PP tomorrow as well, Nyom.

2019 Mar 07 01:21:24
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Mar 07 01:18:59
Johann: May you have a safe and slow travel.

2019 Mar 07 01:10:20
Cheav Villa: ចេញពី​ភ្នំពេញ​នៅម៉ោង5ព្រឹក :)  _/\_

2019 Mar 07 01:09:25
Cheav Villa: ពួកខ្ញុំកូណា និង បង​ភឿន​ នឹងទៅសួរសុខទុក្ខព្រះអង្គនៅថ្ងៃស្អែក

2019 Mar 07 01:08:34
Johann: Nyom Villa

2019 Mar 07 01:07:32
Cheav Villa: ថ្វាយបង្គំ​ព្រះអង្គ  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Mar 06 03:31:04
Cheav Villa: Have a good day to Master Moritz  _/\_

2019 Mar 06 03:29:38
Moritz: And good night for me. :) Chom reap leah. May all have a good Uposatha _/\_

2019 Mar 06 03:27:51
Moritz: Good morning, Cheav Villa _/\_

2019 Mar 06 03:17:49
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Mar 06 03:05:26
Johann: A self-blessed (by ones deeds) Uposathaday today.

2019 Mar 05 11:33:43
Johann: Nyom Chanroth had to stop the work. To difficult to concentrate today. Good training anyway.

2019 Mar 05 10:20:56
Cheav Villa:  :-\ :D _/\_

2019 Mar 05 05:26:54
Johann: A meritful Uposatha those who observe it today.

2019 Mar 05 03:13:37
Johann: Sadhu, Sadhu. Rupam anicca

2019 Mar 05 01:47:58
Ieng Puthy: ករុណាបារម្ភអំពីសុខភាពរបស់ព្រះអង្គពីចំងាយ 🙏🏻ករុណាសូមប្រគេនពរ ព្រះអង្គឆាប់ជាសះស្បេីយ

2019 Mar 05 01:38:52
Ieng Puthy: ករុណាឮថា ព្រះអង្គអាពាធ ជង្គង់ តេីព្រះអង្គបានធូរស្បេីយហេីយឬនៅ?

2019 Mar 05 01:07:09
Ieng Puthy: Good morning ! 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 ករុណាថ្វាយបង្គំុ Vandami Bante

2019 Mar 04 14:41:21
Johann: Sukha Chomreoun, Nyom

2019 Mar 04 14:18:03
Moritz: Leaving now. May Bhante have a good day. _/\_

2019 Mar 04 13:45:50
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2019 Mar 04 13:19:43
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Mar 01 16:35:39
Johann: Bhante Indannano  _/\_ How was India in "war times"

2019 Feb 28 11:46:56
Moritz: And good bye again. :) _/\_

2019 Feb 28 11:46:38
Moritz: Vandami, Bhante _/\_

2019 Feb 28 05:25:27
Cheav Villa:   :D_/\_

2019 Feb 28 04:22:46
Johann: 5 o'clock morning  ^-^ (like a taxi driver) may Nyom has well earned and peaceful rest. Mudita.

2019 Feb 28 04:08:09
Moritz: Chom reap leah. I'm going to sleep. _/\_

2019 Feb 28 03:40:13
Johann: Sukha chomreoun Nyom.

2019 Feb 28 03:39:06
Moritz: Vandami, Bhante _/\_

2019 Feb 28 03:35:39
Moritz: Good morning, Cheav Villa _/\_

2019 Feb 27 16:15:42
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 27 14:17:51
Khemakumara: Nyom Villa

2019 Feb 27 14:16:29
Khemakumara: Bhante Johann  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 27 14:11:14
Johann: Bhante Khemakumara. Nyom Villa.

2019 Feb 27 12:54:45
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2019 Feb 27 12:20:30
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Feb 27 03:54:23
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 27 03:40:17
Johann: The non-doing of any evil, the performance of what's skillful, the cleansing of one's own mind:     this is the teaching     of the Awakened.

2019 Feb 27 02:18:41
Johann: It's current better but of cause will not heal. Nothing to worry.

2019 Feb 27 01:40:55
Cheav Villa: ព្រះអង្គ​ តើ​ជង្គង់​បា​ន​ធូរស្រាល​ ឬទេ?  _/\_

2019 Feb 27 01:40:09
Cheav Villa: សាធុ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 27 01:20:29
Johann: May all do a meritfull Sila-day today

2019 Feb 26 07:35:46
Johann: Nyom Mico

2019 Feb 25 18:22:21
Vithou: :)

2019 Feb 24 15:10:27
Cheav Villa: Hello Master Moritz  _/\_

2019 Feb 24 13:33:34
Moritz: Hello Dmytro and Cheav Villa _/\_

2019 Feb 24 13:13:45
Johann: Meister Moritz

2019 Feb 24 13:08:42
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Feb 21 03:15:02
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2019 Feb 20 15:56:46
Johann: see here

2019 Feb 20 13:33:02
Cheav Villa: ពូចាន់រ័ត្ន សុំអោយសួរព្រះអង្គ តើម្សិលមិញ រឺ​ម្សិលម្ង៉ៃ​ មានមនុស្ស​ប្រុសម្នាក់ស្រីម្នាក់ ឡើងទៅលើភ្នំ ឬទេ?

2019 Feb 20 13:31:37
Cheav Villa: ថ្វាយបង្គំ​ព្រះអង្គ  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Feb 18 14:34:39
Johann: Meister Moritz

2019 Feb 18 13:29:24
Moritz: Leaving. May Bhante and all have a good day. _/\_

2019 Feb 18 13:18:25
Moritz: _/\_

2019 Feb 18 09:31:39
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2019 Feb 18 08:19:34
Johann: Where and what to practice?

2019 Feb 18 08:15:08
Johann: Where and when ever good inspired and worthy to give into.

2019 Feb 18 08:14:03
Johann: That place here is not that different, and Nyom did already a lot here. And don't forget: Punna iomething that arises in ones heart, not outwardly.

2019 Feb 18 07:34:01
Cheav Villa: ជាមួយនឹង​ក្រុម​​លោកម្ចាស់​ស្រេង​   _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

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Author Topic: The falling away of Devas  (Read 2440 times)

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Offline Johann

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The falling away of Devas
« on: November 02, 2018, 03:51:32 AM »
Something that happens also very often to internet-Devas.

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

PARTIAL ETERNALISM

“There are some contemplatives & brahmans who are partially eternalists and partially non-eternalists, who proclaim a partially eternal and partially non-eternal self & cosmos on four grounds.[1] And with reference to what, coming from what, are these honorable contemplatives & brahmans partially eternalists and partially non-eternalists who proclaim a partially eternal and partially non-eternal self & cosmos on four grounds?

5. “There ultimately comes a time when, with the passing of a long stretch of time, this cosmos devolves. When the cosmos is devolving, beings for the most part head toward the Radiant (brahmās). There they stay: mind-made, feeding on rapture, self-luminous, coursing through the air, established in beauty for a long stretch of time. Then there ultimately comes a time when, with the passing of a long stretch of time, this cosmos evolves. When the cosmos is evolving, an empty Brahmā palace appears. Then a certain being—from the exhaustion of his life span or the exhaustion of his merit[2]—falls from the company of the Radiant and re-arises in the empty Brahmā palace. And there he still stays mind-made, feeding on rapture, self-luminous, coursing through the air, established in beauty for a long stretch of time.

“After dwelling there alone for a long time, he experiences displeasure & agitation: ‘O, if only other beings would come to this world!’

“Then other beings, through the ending of their life span or the ending of their merit, fall from the company of the Radiant and reappear in the Brahmā palace, in the company of that being. And there they still stay mind-made, feeding on rapture, self-luminous, coursing through the air, established in beauty for a long stretch of time.

“Then the thought occurs to the being who reappeared first: ‘I am Brahmā, the Great Brahmā, the Conqueror, the Unconquered, the All-Seeing, All-Powerful, the Sovereign Lord, the Maker, Creator, Chief, Appointer & Ruler, Father of All That Have Been & Shall Be.[3] These beings were created by me. Why is that? First the thought occurred to me, “O, if only other beings would come to this world!” And thus my direction of will brought these beings to this world.’ As for the beings who reappeared later, this thought occurs to them: ‘This is Brahmā… Father of All That Have Been & Shall Be. We were created by this Brahmā. Why is that? We saw that he appeared here before, while we appeared after.’ The being who reappeared first is of longer life span, more beautiful, & more influential, while the beings who reappeared later are of shorter life span, less beautiful, & less influential.

“Now, there is the possibility, monks, that a certain being, having fallen from that company, comes to this world. Having come to this world, he goes forth from the home life into homelessness. Having gone forth from the home life into homelessness, he—through ardency, through exertion, through commitment, through heedfulness, through right attention—touches an awareness- concentration such that in his concentrated mind he recollects that former life, but nothing prior to that. He says, ‘We were created by Brahmā, the Great Brahmā, the Conqueror, the Unconquered, the All-Seeing, All-Powerful, the Sovereign Lord, the Maker, Creator, Chief, Appointer and Ruler, Father of All That Have Been and Shall Be. He is constant, permanent, eternal, not subject to change, and will remain just like that for eternity. But we who have been created by him—inconstant, impermanent, short-lived, subject to falling—have come to this world.’

“This is the first basis—with reference to which, coming from which—some contemplatives & brahmans are partially eternalists and partially non-eternalists who proclaim a partially eternal and partially non-eternal self & cosmos.

6. “As for the second: With reference to what, coming from what, are contemplatives & brahmans partially eternalists and partially non-eternalists who proclaim a partially eternal and partially non-eternal self & cosmos?

“There are, monks, devas called Corrupted by Play.[4] They spend an excessive amount of time indulging in the delights of laughter & play. Because they spend an excessive amount of time indulging in the delights of laughter & play, their mindfulness becomes muddled. Because of muddled mindfulness, they fall from that company of devas.

“Now, there is the possibility, monks, that a certain being, having fallen from that company, comes to this world. Having come to this world, he goes forth from the home life into homelessness. Having gone forth from the home life into homelessness, he—through ardency, through exertion, through commitment, through heedfulness, through right attention—touches an awareness- concentration such that in his concentrated mind he recollects that former life, but nothing prior to that. He says, ‘Those honorable devas who are not corrupted by play don’t spend an excessive amount of time indulging in the delights of laughter & play. Because they don’t spend an excessive amount of time indulging in the delights of laughter & play, their mindfulness doesn’t become muddled. Because of unmuddled mindfulness, they don’t fall from that company. They are constant, permanent, eternal, not subject to change, and will remain just like that for eternity. But those of us who were corrupted by play spent an excessive amount of time indulging in the delights of laughter & play. Because we spent an excessive amount of time indulging in the delights of laughter & play, our mindfulness became muddled. Because of muddled mindfulness, we fell from that company and—inconstant, impermanent, short-lived, subject to falling—have come to this world.’

“This is the second basis—with reference to which, coming from which—some contemplatives & brahmans are partially eternalists and partially non-eternalists who proclaim a partially eternal and partially non-eternal self & cosmos.

7. “As for the third: With reference to what, coming from what, are contemplatives & brahmans partially eternalists and partially non-eternalists who proclaim a partially eternal and partially non-eternal self & cosmos?

“There are, monks, devas called Corrupted by Mind. They spend an excessive amount of time staring at one another.[5] Because they spend an excessive amount of time staring at one another, their minds become corrupted toward one another. Because they are corrupted in mind toward one another, they grow exhausted in body & exhausted in mind. They fall from that company of devas.

“Now, there is the possibility, monks, that a certain being, having fallen from that company, comes to this world. Having come to this world, he goes forth from the home life into homelessness. Having gone forth from the home life into homelessness, he—through ardency, through exertion, through commitment, through heedfulness, through right attention—touches an awareness- concentration such that in his concentrated mind he recollects that former life, but nothing prior to that. He says, ‘Those honorable devas who are not corrupted in mind don’t spend an excessive amount of time staring at one another. Because they don’t spend an excessive amount of time staring at one another, their minds don’t become corrupted toward one another. Because they are uncorrupted in mind toward one another, they don’t grow exhausted in body or exhausted in mind. They don’t fall from that company. They are constant, permanent, eternal, not subject to change, and will remain just like that for eternity. But those of us who were corrupted in mind spent an excessive amount of time staring at one another. Because we spent an excessive amount of time staring at one another, our minds became corrupted toward one another. Because we were corrupted in mind toward one another, we grew exhausted in body & exhausted in mind. We fell from that company and—inconstant, impermanent, short-lived, subject to falling—have come to this world.’

“This is the third basis—with reference to which, coming from which—some contemplatives & brahmans are partially eternalists and partially non-eternalists who proclaim a partially eternal and partially non-eternal self & cosmos.

8. “As for the fourth: With reference to what, coming from what, are contemplatives & brahmans partially eternalists and partially non-eternalists who proclaim a partially eternal and partially non-eternal self & cosmos?

“There is the case where a certain contemplative or brahman is a logician, an inquirer. He states his own improvisation, hammered out by logic, deduced from his inquiries: ‘That which is called “eye” & “ear” & “nose” & “tongue” & “body”: That self is inconstant, impermanent, non-eternal, subject to change. But that which is called “mind” or “intellect” or “consciousness”: That self is constant, permanent, eternal, not subject to change, and will remain just like that for eternity.’[6]

“This is the fourth basis—with reference to which, coming from which—some contemplatives & brahmans are partially eternalists and partially non-eternalists who proclaim a partially eternal and partially non-eternal self & cosmos.

“These, monks, are the contemplatives & brahmans who are partially eternalists and partially non-eternalists, who proclaim a partially eternal and partially non-eternal self & cosmos on four grounds. And whatever contemplatives & brahmans who partially eternalists and partially non-eternalists, who proclaim a partially eternal and partially non-eternal self & cosmos, they all do so on one or another of these four grounds. There is nothing outside of this.

“With regard to this, the Tathāgata discerns that ‘These standpoints, thus seized, thus grasped at, lead to such & such a destination, to such & such a state in the world beyond.’ That the Tathāgata discerns. And he discerns what is higher than that. And yet, discerning that, he does not grasp at it. And as he is not grasping at it, unbinding [nibbuti] is experienced right within. Knowing, as they have come to be, the origination, ending, allure, & drawbacks of feelings, along with the escape from feelings, the Tathāgata, monks—through lack of clinging/sustenance—is released.

“These, monks, are the dhammas—deep, hard to see, hard to realize, tranquil, refined, beyond the scope of conjecture, subtle, to-be-experienced by the wise—that the Tathāgata proclaims, having directly known & realized them for himself, and that those who, rightly speaking in praise of the Tathāgata in line with what is factual, would speak.
 1. As the following discussion shows, various forms of theism would come under this category.
 2. There is an implied criticism of Brahmanism in this sentence: The Great Brahmā, the highest god in their pantheon, has gained his position not because of his greatness but because the merit that would have allowed him to stay in a higher realm was exhausted. See MN 49 .
 3. See the story of the Great Brahmā in DN 11 .
 4. These devas are listed in DN 20.
 5. These devas, too, are listed in DN 20. The Commentary to this passage states that they stare at one another out of envy and anger, but it could also be the case that they stare out of lust.
 6. This is the view propounded by Sāti the Fisherman’s Son in MN 38 —a view that the Buddha characterizes as evil, probably because it denies the role of kamma in shaping experience. However, see Anm. 1 and 2 to that sutta.

So one in a Brahma-realm, and the realm of the Noble Ones is such as well, one should be carefully in observing whats going on with oneself, should not turn to much outwardly so that there is space for all kinds of unwise comparison and one needs ti be very careful that lust does not get space. Dwelling mindful and do what is useful to maintain a certain realm is all that is necessary for long resistance and to head beyond.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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