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Author Topic: The falling away of Devas  (Read 1565 times)

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Online Johann

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The falling away of Devas
« on: November 02, 2018, 03:51:32 AM »
Something that happens also very often to internet-Devas.

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

PARTIAL ETERNALISM

“There are some contemplatives & brahmans who are partially eternalists and partially non-eternalists, who proclaim a partially eternal and partially non-eternal self & cosmos on four grounds.[1] And with reference to what, coming from what, are these honorable contemplatives & brahmans partially eternalists and partially non-eternalists who proclaim a partially eternal and partially non-eternal self & cosmos on four grounds?

5. “There ultimately comes a time when, with the passing of a long stretch of time, this cosmos devolves. When the cosmos is devolving, beings for the most part head toward the Radiant (brahmās). There they stay: mind-made, feeding on rapture, self-luminous, coursing through the air, established in beauty for a long stretch of time. Then there ultimately comes a time when, with the passing of a long stretch of time, this cosmos evolves. When the cosmos is evolving, an empty Brahmā palace appears. Then a certain being—from the exhaustion of his life span or the exhaustion of his merit[2]—falls from the company of the Radiant and re-arises in the empty Brahmā palace. And there he still stays mind-made, feeding on rapture, self-luminous, coursing through the air, established in beauty for a long stretch of time.

“After dwelling there alone for a long time, he experiences displeasure & agitation: ‘O, if only other beings would come to this world!’

“Then other beings, through the ending of their life span or the ending of their merit, fall from the company of the Radiant and reappear in the Brahmā palace, in the company of that being. And there they still stay mind-made, feeding on rapture, self-luminous, coursing through the air, established in beauty for a long stretch of time.

“Then the thought occurs to the being who reappeared first: ‘I am Brahmā, the Great Brahmā, the Conqueror, the Unconquered, the All-Seeing, All-Powerful, the Sovereign Lord, the Maker, Creator, Chief, Appointer & Ruler, Father of All That Have Been & Shall Be.[3] These beings were created by me. Why is that? First the thought occurred to me, “O, if only other beings would come to this world!” And thus my direction of will brought these beings to this world.’ As for the beings who reappeared later, this thought occurs to them: ‘This is Brahmā… Father of All That Have Been & Shall Be. We were created by this Brahmā. Why is that? We saw that he appeared here before, while we appeared after.’ The being who reappeared first is of longer life span, more beautiful, & more influential, while the beings who reappeared later are of shorter life span, less beautiful, & less influential.

“Now, there is the possibility, monks, that a certain being, having fallen from that company, comes to this world. Having come to this world, he goes forth from the home life into homelessness. Having gone forth from the home life into homelessness, he—through ardency, through exertion, through commitment, through heedfulness, through right attention—touches an awareness- concentration such that in his concentrated mind he recollects that former life, but nothing prior to that. He says, ‘We were created by Brahmā, the Great Brahmā, the Conqueror, the Unconquered, the All-Seeing, All-Powerful, the Sovereign Lord, the Maker, Creator, Chief, Appointer and Ruler, Father of All That Have Been and Shall Be. He is constant, permanent, eternal, not subject to change, and will remain just like that for eternity. But we who have been created by him—inconstant, impermanent, short-lived, subject to falling—have come to this world.’

“This is the first basis—with reference to which, coming from which—some contemplatives & brahmans are partially eternalists and partially non-eternalists who proclaim a partially eternal and partially non-eternal self & cosmos.

6. “As for the second: With reference to what, coming from what, are contemplatives & brahmans partially eternalists and partially non-eternalists who proclaim a partially eternal and partially non-eternal self & cosmos?

“There are, monks, devas called Corrupted by Play.[4] They spend an excessive amount of time indulging in the delights of laughter & play. Because they spend an excessive amount of time indulging in the delights of laughter & play, their mindfulness becomes muddled. Because of muddled mindfulness, they fall from that company of devas.

“Now, there is the possibility, monks, that a certain being, having fallen from that company, comes to this world. Having come to this world, he goes forth from the home life into homelessness. Having gone forth from the home life into homelessness, he—through ardency, through exertion, through commitment, through heedfulness, through right attention—touches an awareness- concentration such that in his concentrated mind he recollects that former life, but nothing prior to that. He says, ‘Those honorable devas who are not corrupted by play don’t spend an excessive amount of time indulging in the delights of laughter & play. Because they don’t spend an excessive amount of time indulging in the delights of laughter & play, their mindfulness doesn’t become muddled. Because of unmuddled mindfulness, they don’t fall from that company. They are constant, permanent, eternal, not subject to change, and will remain just like that for eternity. But those of us who were corrupted by play spent an excessive amount of time indulging in the delights of laughter & play. Because we spent an excessive amount of time indulging in the delights of laughter & play, our mindfulness became muddled. Because of muddled mindfulness, we fell from that company and—inconstant, impermanent, short-lived, subject to falling—have come to this world.’

“This is the second basis—with reference to which, coming from which—some contemplatives & brahmans are partially eternalists and partially non-eternalists who proclaim a partially eternal and partially non-eternal self & cosmos.

7. “As for the third: With reference to what, coming from what, are contemplatives & brahmans partially eternalists and partially non-eternalists who proclaim a partially eternal and partially non-eternal self & cosmos?

“There are, monks, devas called Corrupted by Mind. They spend an excessive amount of time staring at one another.[5] Because they spend an excessive amount of time staring at one another, their minds become corrupted toward one another. Because they are corrupted in mind toward one another, they grow exhausted in body & exhausted in mind. They fall from that company of devas.

“Now, there is the possibility, monks, that a certain being, having fallen from that company, comes to this world. Having come to this world, he goes forth from the home life into homelessness. Having gone forth from the home life into homelessness, he—through ardency, through exertion, through commitment, through heedfulness, through right attention—touches an awareness- concentration such that in his concentrated mind he recollects that former life, but nothing prior to that. He says, ‘Those honorable devas who are not corrupted in mind don’t spend an excessive amount of time staring at one another. Because they don’t spend an excessive amount of time staring at one another, their minds don’t become corrupted toward one another. Because they are uncorrupted in mind toward one another, they don’t grow exhausted in body or exhausted in mind. They don’t fall from that company. They are constant, permanent, eternal, not subject to change, and will remain just like that for eternity. But those of us who were corrupted in mind spent an excessive amount of time staring at one another. Because we spent an excessive amount of time staring at one another, our minds became corrupted toward one another. Because we were corrupted in mind toward one another, we grew exhausted in body & exhausted in mind. We fell from that company and—inconstant, impermanent, short-lived, subject to falling—have come to this world.’

“This is the third basis—with reference to which, coming from which—some contemplatives & brahmans are partially eternalists and partially non-eternalists who proclaim a partially eternal and partially non-eternal self & cosmos.

8. “As for the fourth: With reference to what, coming from what, are contemplatives & brahmans partially eternalists and partially non-eternalists who proclaim a partially eternal and partially non-eternal self & cosmos?

“There is the case where a certain contemplative or brahman is a logician, an inquirer. He states his own improvisation, hammered out by logic, deduced from his inquiries: ‘That which is called “eye” & “ear” & “nose” & “tongue” & “body”: That self is inconstant, impermanent, non-eternal, subject to change. But that which is called “mind” or “intellect” or “consciousness”: That self is constant, permanent, eternal, not subject to change, and will remain just like that for eternity.’[6]

“This is the fourth basis—with reference to which, coming from which—some contemplatives & brahmans are partially eternalists and partially non-eternalists who proclaim a partially eternal and partially non-eternal self & cosmos.

“These, monks, are the contemplatives & brahmans who are partially eternalists and partially non-eternalists, who proclaim a partially eternal and partially non-eternal self & cosmos on four grounds. And whatever contemplatives & brahmans who partially eternalists and partially non-eternalists, who proclaim a partially eternal and partially non-eternal self & cosmos, they all do so on one or another of these four grounds. There is nothing outside of this.

“With regard to this, the Tathāgata discerns that ‘These standpoints, thus seized, thus grasped at, lead to such & such a destination, to such & such a state in the world beyond.’ That the Tathāgata discerns. And he discerns what is higher than that. And yet, discerning that, he does not grasp at it. And as he is not grasping at it, unbinding [nibbuti] is experienced right within. Knowing, as they have come to be, the origination, ending, allure, & drawbacks of feelings, along with the escape from feelings, the Tathāgata, monks—through lack of clinging/sustenance—is released.

“These, monks, are the dhammas—deep, hard to see, hard to realize, tranquil, refined, beyond the scope of conjecture, subtle, to-be-experienced by the wise—that the Tathāgata proclaims, having directly known & realized them for himself, and that those who, rightly speaking in praise of the Tathāgata in line with what is factual, would speak.
 1. As the following discussion shows, various forms of theism would come under this category.
 2. There is an implied criticism of Brahmanism in this sentence: The Great Brahmā, the highest god in their pantheon, has gained his position not because of his greatness but because the merit that would have allowed him to stay in a higher realm was exhausted. See MN 49 .
 3. See the story of the Great Brahmā in DN 11 .
 4. These devas are listed in DN 20.
 5. These devas, too, are listed in DN 20. The Commentary to this passage states that they stare at one another out of envy and anger, but it could also be the case that they stare out of lust.
 6. This is the view propounded by Sāti the Fisherman’s Son in MN 38 —a view that the Buddha characterizes as evil, probably because it denies the role of kamma in shaping experience. However, see Anm. 1 and 2 to that sutta.

So one in a Brahma-realm, and the realm of the Noble Ones is such as well, one should be carefully in observing whats going on with oneself, should not turn to much outwardly so that there is space for all kinds of unwise comparison and one needs ti be very careful that lust does not get space. Dwelling mindful and do what is useful to maintain a certain realm is all that is necessary for long resistance and to head beyond.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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Plauderbox

 

Johann

November 11, 2018, 01:00:38 AM
Sadhu Nyom. "May the Dhamma of the Buddha, and those following, be all beings refuge for a blessed life and beyond."
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 11, 2018, 12:31:09 AM
May the Dhamma be the greatest blessing in our lives today!
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 11, 2018, 12:30:17 AM
Möge heute das Dhamma der größte Segen in unserem Leben sein!
 

Johann

November 10, 2018, 03:31:36 AM
Sadhu! "May all given the right causes so that they experiance peace, prospery, friendships in their worlds today."
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 10, 2018, 02:42:15 AM
Sehr ehrwürdiger Samanera Johann,
hier gibt es einen Fehler. Nicht Mӧge, sondern Mӧgen.

Dhamma Grüβe an Sie aus Sri Lanka!
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 10, 2018, 12:58:57 AM
May peace, prosperity, Friendship prevail throughout the word today!
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 10, 2018, 12:58:26 AM
Mӧge heute Frieden, Wohlstand und Freundschaft auf der ganzen Welt herrschen!
 

Johann

November 08, 2018, 01:40:21 AM
May all those having not observed the new-moon Uposata yesterday take the chance of this day.
 

Johann

November 07, 2018, 01:52:42 AM
Sadhu! "May I, may all, give the causes, act in way, that I, that all, experiance a blissfull day."
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 07, 2018, 12:36:19 AM
May today be a blissful day!
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 07, 2018, 12:35:13 AM
Mӧge der heutige Tag ein glückseliger Tag sein!
 

Cheav Villa

November 06, 2018, 02:57:08 PM
Sandhu!
 

Johann

November 06, 2018, 12:41:22 AM
Sadhu. "May I, may all, use this day to give themselves causes for long lasting happines."
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 06, 2018, 12:17:34 AM
May today be a meritful and meritorious day!
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 06, 2018, 12:16:58 AM
Mӧge der heutige Tag ein verdienstvoller und verdienstlicher Tag sein!
 

Johann

November 05, 2018, 09:16:58 AM
Sadhu
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 05, 2018, 01:41:57 AM
May today be a day of insight!                                                                        
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 05, 2018, 01:41:24 AM
Mӧge der heutige Tag ein Tag der Einsicht sein!
 

Johann

November 04, 2018, 04:57:53 PM
(I, Breah Karuna, will try to send the pictures tomorrow again, because today the sending does not work)

No problem Nyom. គ្មានបញ្ហាទេញោម
 

Cheav Villa

November 04, 2018, 04:09:20 PM
ខ្ញុំព្រះករុណានឹងផ្ញេីរូបភាពនៅថ្ងៃស្អែកទៀត ព្រោះឥលូវផ្ញេីមិនទៅទេព្រះអង្គ
 

Johann

November 04, 2018, 07:58:41 AM
Sadhu
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 04, 2018, 02:45:36 AM
Dear The Most Reverend Samanera Johann,

I wish you a devotional day.

Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!


 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 03, 2018, 03:11:53 PM
Dear The Most Reverend Samanera Johann,

I thank you for your kind service.

Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!


 

Cheav Villa

November 03, 2018, 02:03:55 PM
ព្រះករុណាព្រះអង្គ
 

Johann

November 03, 2018, 02:01:26 PM
(I would like to inform Breah Ang, that I, Breah Karuna, together with my husband/family, and older Sister Sophoeun will go to Aural tomorow in the morning. May Breah Ang be told to (a)wait.)

May you have a secure and hurry-less travel and meet good fortune all along the way. May you drive slowly
 

Cheav Villa

November 03, 2018, 12:51:48 PM
សូមទូលព្រះអង្គ​ ខ្ញុំព្រះករុណានិងគ្រួសារ និងបងស្រីសុភឿននឹងទៅឱរ៉ាល់នាព្រឹកស្អែក សូមទូលនិមន្តព្រះអង្គចាំ
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 03, 2018, 12:06:08 PM
Dear The Most Reverend Samanera Johann,

I have put the link on the correct place. Please confirm if it is correct!

Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!
 

Johann

November 03, 2018, 10:42:58 AM
Nyom Villa.
 

Johann

November 03, 2018, 10:42:08 AM
And Atma should put it on a good place? Take your time. Nobody can do your work, merits for Nyom Mohan aside he himself.
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 03, 2018, 07:27:06 AM
Dear The Most Reverend Samanera Johann,

Since I do not have much time, I would like to submit the following link.

Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!





 

Johann

November 03, 2018, 07:25:21 AM
Nyom Mohan
 

Johann

November 02, 2018, 01:26:07 PM
Better in Topic itself, Nyom. See here .
 

Cheav Villa

November 02, 2018, 12:53:59 PM
ខ្ញុំ​កូណាមិនយល់ពីពាក្យរបស់ព្រះអង្គទេ
My sleep, my health, my many household, feelings, rememberance, projects, recognitions ... "I want to have time when I'm old and sick ... surely! សូម ព្រះអង្គ ជួ
 

Johann

November 02, 2018, 12:20:25 PM
No problems or demands at all Nyom Villa. All fine for Nyom, there where she is?
 

Cheav Villa

November 02, 2018, 12:17:21 PM
My sleep, my health, my many household, feelings, rememberance, projects, recognitions ... "I want to have time when I am old and sick ... surely! សូមព្រះអង្គជួយពន្យល់ផង
 

Cheav Villa

November 02, 2018, 12:13:05 PM
 :o ខ្ញុំកូណាមេីលច្រលំទៀតហេីយ សូមទោសព្រះអង្គម្តងទៀត  :D
 

Cheav Villa

November 02, 2018, 11:26:23 AM
ខ្ញុំកូណាសូមទោសមិនបានឆ្លីយតបព្រះអង្គ ទាន់ពេលទេីបតែងាកឃេីញ។ ខ្ញុំកូណាចង់ជួយធុងទឹក និងបេីអាចនិងបុកអណ្តូង
 

Johann

November 01, 2018, 10:05:29 AM
May all have/hold an auspicious Uposatha-Sila-Observance day.
 

Johann

October 31, 2018, 03:14:35 PM
"Oh! My sleep, my health, my many household, feelings, rememberance, projects, recognitions...", I will have time when I am old and sick... surely!
 

Johann

October 31, 2018, 03:09:31 PM
in earlier times "Buddhist" would come the day before Sila-day to the monastery and, not going to sleep, after having taken 8 precepts, do 24h merits. "good old times..."  :)
 

Johann

October 31, 2018, 01:50:41 PM
 :) lost... "Zeit hat man nicht, die muß man sich nehmen"
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

October 31, 2018, 01:43:14 PM
Dear The Most Reverend Samanera Johann,

I agree with you. But I need more time.

Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!
 

Johann

October 31, 2018, 01:25:52 PM
Thinking "in the future" is another lost battle... Nyom: Sieg! . Next minute you could die and what follows Nyom?
 

Johann

October 31, 2018, 01:22:24 PM
Similar to this one, maybe: [Khmer] Anreden, Begrüßung | Forms of adress, Greeting , started as layperson by now Bhante Khemakumara.
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

October 31, 2018, 01:17:50 PM
Dear The Most Reverend Samanera Johann,

In the future, I will try my best.

Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!
Mohan Barathi Gnanathilake




 

Johann

October 31, 2018, 01:16:37 PM
Where ever people stop to make merits, don't rejoice with it, it will not need long that revolution-desires arise, having gone out of puñña
 

Johann

October 31, 2018, 01:11:17 PM
What about teaching ways of introduction abhivadana, and how to adress monks, behave, speak in monasteries? That would be great in many aspects for Nyom.
 

Johann

October 31, 2018, 01:08:34 PM
Nyom could teach a little Sinhalese, and open a topic. At least such, by thinking and giving into the Sublime Sangha would be of great benefit for Nyom. Not ease to find possibility to make merits, yet surely devotion is also one.
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

October 31, 2018, 12:59:52 PM
Sehr ehrwürdiger Samanera Johann,

Dhamma Grüβe an Sie aus Sri Lanka!

Mohan Barathi Gnanathilake





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