* * *

Tipitaka Khmer

 Please feel welcome to join the transcription project of the Tipitaka translation in khmer, and share one of your favorite Sutta or more. Simply click here or visit the Forum: 

Search ATI on ZzE

Zugang zur Einsicht - Schriften aus der Theravada Tradition



Access to Insight / Zugang zur Einsicht: Dhamma-Suche auf mehr als 4000 Webseiten (deutsch / english) - ohne zu googeln, andere Ressourcen zu nehmen, weltliche Verpflichtungen einzugehen. Sie sind für den Zugang zur Einsicht herzlich eingeladen diese Möglichkeit zu nutzen. (Info)

Random Sutta
Random Article
Random Jataka

Zufälliges Sutta
Zufälliger Artikel
Zufälliges Jataka


Arbeits/Work Forum ZzE

"Dhammatalks.org":
[logo dhammatalks.org]
Random Talk
[pic 30]

Recent Topics

[Today at 01:24:48 AM]

[Today at 12:46:45 AM]

[November 15, 2018, 01:32:52 PM]

[November 15, 2018, 12:44:19 PM]

[November 15, 2018, 12:39:30 PM]

[November 15, 2018, 11:42:48 AM]

[November 15, 2018, 11:21:45 AM]

[November 15, 2018, 10:06:37 AM]

[November 14, 2018, 04:17:02 PM]

[November 14, 2018, 03:11:16 PM]

[November 14, 2018, 02:24:37 PM]

[November 14, 2018, 02:24:19 PM]

[November 14, 2018, 10:27:40 AM]

[November 14, 2018, 04:49:12 AM]

[November 14, 2018, 01:50:53 AM]

[November 13, 2018, 01:04:48 AM]

[November 13, 2018, 01:02:43 AM]

[November 13, 2018, 01:00:18 AM]

[November 13, 2018, 12:57:55 AM]

[November 13, 2018, 12:20:23 AM]

[November 12, 2018, 02:04:32 PM]

[November 12, 2018, 01:23:15 PM]

[November 12, 2018, 01:21:34 AM]

[November 11, 2018, 04:42:45 PM]

[November 11, 2018, 10:57:57 AM]

[November 11, 2018, 03:34:14 AM]

[November 10, 2018, 01:55:33 PM]

[November 10, 2018, 03:52:30 AM]

[November 09, 2018, 03:40:13 PM]

[November 09, 2018, 09:37:41 AM]

[November 05, 2018, 11:53:46 AM]

[November 05, 2018, 10:36:02 AM]
[Buddha]

Author Topic: Is smoking tobacco/ e-ciggarettes a breach of the 5th precept?  (Read 98 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Johann

  • Samanera
  • Very Engaged Member
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +347/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527

I have read on this forum (DW) that smoking tobacco ciggarettes is not a breach of the 5th precept. Others disagree.

Is smoking tobacco a breach of the 5th precept or not?

How about e-ciggarettes (vaping)?

Quote from: Johann
No, not at all. The fifth precept encouragesgis abstaining from means which causing heedlessness, better lose of fear and let one easier perform kammic bad deeds (e.g. the 4 precepts) as well as acting without restrain.

Even if still after certain sensual-satisfaction: If all people in the world would be just addicted to this, less wars, harming, destruction and all other painful things would be present out of desire after sensuality. Not even plant-life would be needed to destroy for such.
It's even allowed for Bhikkhus incl. a lot of allowances tools and storage equipment, yet of course not for simple sensual enjoyment.

In relation of such as e-ciggarettes, in regard of precept on it's own, propably not (not really knowing them, of what it is), but thought of how they are produced, etc... they might cause a lot of harm for others.

Protrest out of common thoughts and daily wellness argumentation:

Quote from: Padipa
Intoxicants are not allowed--period: hard to believe this can be debated. Nicotine affects the mind's chemical transmissions, is highly addictive and is, therefore, an intoxicant. The traversing of the path (magga) for objective reality through purification (pariyodapana) of ones own mind (sacitta), via ones own mind, is difficult enough! Why introduce chemical variables which promote conditioning, false states of awareness, and jam the brain's synapses?

If you are going to do this, why come here to defend it?

Quote from: Johann
In deed, hard to see ones intentions, hard to overcome certain views and aversion...

One who acts simply to justify ones short comings, spocken of sacca, is really a bad fool. Now not able to leave the mass of house behind to probably be able to get on the path, indoxicated by youth, health and life, isn't it not that hypocratical clincing to rites and virtues not conductive on the path, are what hinders?

Again, smoking tabacco causes not to lose restrain from evil deeds and this matches the topic, this is a matter relevant for lasting benefit. Of what those clincing to house may see as days trendy means to run after, thats not grasped by it, for this is at most a defending of addiction to the three intoxications youth, health and life: marked, feel-good-selling and wellness-politic. So just mentioned for those seeking something beyond views at least, sticking to conductive for gaining it.

And to get it not wrong, smoking is not a path-factor and may effect ones health unnecessary. So don't start doing it, or praise it improper.

A common argumentation out of improper attention:

Quote from: Nyom Laurence
Quote from: Johann
Again, smoking tabacco causes not to lose restrain from evil deeds
I think this is up for debate. I've been addicted to cigarettes in the past and I can tell you that at the point of trying to quit, but still feeling cravings, I would likely have taken a cigarette that wasn't given to me if someone had left a pack behind or something. I also became extremely quick to anger whilst craving cigarettes, if I was of a different temperament I may have acted on this too...

Whilst you are actually smoking tobacco, I agree that there is not much of an effect, although if a non-smoker had a cigarette right now they would have a head rush that would almost certainly feel like quite a big effect. The addictive nature of tobacco, however could easily cause one to slip into evil deeds.

If this way of thinking is valid in relation of Silas, then loving your wife and you children, association with them, would be a breach of the basic precepts as well. Chocolate, favor for tee in the morning, favor to sit in this or that way... No to speak of having a favor to think about yourself...

It may happen, that one deprived of his honey (tobacco) may to unwise things, yes. Stealing, lying, even killing could possible happen.
But in this case, if such is the base of argument, there are countless other sensual desires, like beloved, who are much more and frequently cause of conflicts. That's running out to the common opinion-battle and daily changing views.

Beings are strong addicted to the objects of the sense, cetain food and food (entertainment) is required to overcome addition to food.

So that is not a good way of thinking at the beginning. Althought food for lifting oneself over others, yet still addicted to everyting, caught in home/house. Yet, of cause, all kinds of sensual desire lead to suffering and it's because of sensual desire that people take knives, lead wars...

On a higher level, if we take the factor of precepts on a high meditative level, what ever enjoying and grasping of sign, sound, taste... all of this is a thief, taking of what is not yours.

Step by step means that one let go of desire after sensual pleasure which causes harm. And as told before, it the worlds beings would be just addicted to tobacco strongly and nothing else, there would be less suffering caused, much lesser.

So all this biased and opinion-forcing arguments are really no match at all.

Most beloved are those driving cars, wishing and addicted to so many things causing so much burning and sick all around, arguing for "smoking effects the health of others..." One could possible smoke 20 pack a day and would not nearly harm as much as an confused activist driving his care, turning on his AC... what ever.

No match and arguments on the level of basic Silas and harm.

May it be of use to do not lose the track, proper attention and help to find the path beyond any desire for what ever refined, harmless and as real taken food.

Usually people giving up one not so good habit will take on a bunch of others for entertaining the mind with sensuality. So the proper way is to simply try honestly keeping basic precepts and get not drunken, indoxicated, losing track by losing right view "there is given, sacrifice".

If smoking tobacco is ones last addition, having heard the good Dhamma, fond firm faith, understanding or having even seen by him/herself, he/she will be sure to end up minimum as Once-returner in this very life, since he will face the first Noble truth in relation of sensuality certainly. No need to fear the sublime destination of a tobacco using person with right view.

Foolish and in most cases corrupted informed who has the thought that a Noble person is not to be found under those using tobacco, yet it might be of cause that a not outsider dwells heedless as well.

To understand this matter, even there would be some using tobacco for certain enjoyment, it's good to read Nandiya Sutta: To Nandiya .
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Online Cheav Villa

  • Aramikini
  • Full Member / Vollmitglied
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +26/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: Is smoking tobacco/ e-ciggarettes a breach of the 5th precept?
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2018, 03:40:13 PM »
  _/\_


Tags:
 

Plauderbox

 

Johann

Today at 01:00:45 AM
May all delight in observing this Sila-days inspirations of cleaning the mind.
 

Johann

November 15, 2018, 01:49:25 PM
Mag da Freude mit guten Unternehmungen sein.
 

Roman

November 15, 2018, 01:46:28 PM
ich gehe jetzt wieder an die Arbeit. ich wünsche allen einen friedevollen Tag!
 

Roman

November 15, 2018, 01:35:30 PM
ich würde mich sehr freuen dass mal mit eigenen augen zu sehen..habe auch geplant nächstes Jahr nach Kambodscha zu kommen.
 

Johann

November 15, 2018, 01:14:27 PM
Thmo Duk , zur Zeit und schon gute Weile, Nyom Roman.
 

Roman

November 15, 2018, 01:07:51 PM
Hello Cheav Villa

 

Roman

November 15, 2018, 12:57:27 PM
Johann wo leben sie eigentlich? Khemakumara erzählte mir dass sie eine Höle bewohnen im aural gebirge, wie ich mich erinneren kann
 

Roman

November 15, 2018, 12:53:28 PM
Hallo Johann
 

Johann

November 15, 2018, 12:52:15 PM
Nyom Roman
 

Cheav Villa

November 15, 2018, 09:03:03 AM
Kuna Prah Ang  :D _/\_
 

Johann

November 15, 2018, 08:56:25 AM
Everything fine now with Nyoms settings? (Nyom Sokdina is Nyom Villas husband, right? My person is very ignorant in remembering names and relations.)

Kong Sokdina

November 15, 2018, 08:18:06 AM
Because I Kuna cant go sangham.net
after move Gmail to mail Green.

Kong Sokdina

November 15, 2018, 08:13:31 AM
Prah Ang
I kuna Villa using his Acct _/\_
 

Johann

November 15, 2018, 08:04:33 AM
Nyom Kong Sokdina.
 

Johann

November 15, 2018, 03:16:45 AM
A fruitful Sila-observance day for those obsering it today.
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 03:52:00 PM
Nyom Roman and Bhantes family will be surely happy and good that Bhante does not need to get much involved directly.
 

Cheav Villa

November 14, 2018, 03:40:07 PM
Kuna Prah Ang
 _/\_
The Kathina will be holding on Sat 17 and Sun 18. I kuna will meet both of Bhante Sreng and Bhante Khemearakuma to imform all about this, incl sharing much pictures.
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 03:14:40 PM
Good if Nyom could explain Bhante Sreng how to use the online monastery. Sadhu! A topic on Bhante Khemakumaras going forth can be found here . Good also if informing and share date of Kathina at Wat Ayom, and much pictures to share
 

Cheav Villa

November 14, 2018, 02:55:43 PM
Kuna Prah Ang,
As I kuna knowing that Prah Ang Khemareakuma
was staying in Ork Yum Pagoda.
This Saturday or Sunday I kuna would join the Kathin there, but now I kuna will send some about Bhante Khemareakuma via FB Prah Ang Sreng.
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 02:37:46 PM
Nyom Roman, Nyom Villa asked if she can help in something in regard of Bhante. Best when you talk in a new topic.
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 02:36:12 PM
Nyom Roman , Bhantes twin brother and his family asked how Bhante is. They miss him much and Bhante praisworthy focus on practice.
 

Cheav Villa

November 14, 2018, 02:27:20 PM
ព្រះអង្គ  _/\_
តើខ្ញុំកូណានឹងអាចជួយអ្វីខ្លះអ្វីអំពីព្រះអង្គ​ Khemareakuma?
 

Cheav Villa

November 14, 2018, 02:15:11 PM
ជំរាបសួរលោក​ Moritz
_/\_
 

Cheav Villa

November 14, 2018, 02:12:59 PM
កូណាមិនបានដឹងទេ ព្រះអង្គ​
 

Moritz

November 14, 2018, 02:12:36 PM
ជំរាបសួរ Cheav Villa _/\_
 

Moritz

November 14, 2018, 02:12:29 PM
Auf Wiedersehen, Roman. Ich schreibe dir noch zurück per E-Mail und mache hier am besten noch ein Thema auf für später.

_/\_
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 02:03:05 PM
Does Nyom Villa know Bhante Khemakumaras twin brother?
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 02:01:43 PM
Eine Reihe der neuen Mitglieder hier, Nyom Villa, Puthy... sind öfter in Kontakt und in den Klöstern Ayum und in Phnom Penh. Mag sein, daß jemand von den Upasikas kürzlich Kontakt hatte. Gut auch wenn Nyom guten Kontakt zu anderen Laien vor Ort Pflegt, hallo sagt...
 

Roman

November 14, 2018, 02:01:26 PM
ich danke ihnen Johann und Motiz für die informationen und unterstützung.
 ich muss  jetzt weiter. ich  wünsche allen einen friedevolle tag
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 01:46:29 PM
Ein paar generelle und erklärende Worte zum Thema Unterstützen hier: If willing to help the child, the "poor" the new, give to it's master, father!
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 01:41:23 PM
Atma denkt, kann aber auch sein, daß er anderwo lernt. Einweiser ist die Person, die einen neuen Mönch einweist, und kommt einem Vater gleich. Bhante Indannano ist Bhantes Einweiser (Upajjhāya). (Hier übrigens das Thema zu "Unte
 

Roman

November 14, 2018, 01:36:35 PM
Und wie geht es Ihnen Johann? wo sind sie untergebracht?
 

Roman

November 14, 2018, 01:34:00 PM
Bhante Khemakumara ist jetzt in Takeo bei Bhante Indannanno soweit ich mitbekommen habe ja? welche bedeutung hat ein Einweiser?
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 01:31:47 PM
Siehe Mountain kuti-sāmaggī weekend, Thmo Duk, end of last Rain-month 2018. . Bhante ist, wenn im Wat (Kloster) Ayum , sicher gut umsorgt von allen Seiten.
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 01:27:18 PM
Seit seinem Mitziehen mit seinem Einweiser soweit nichts gehört und wird, denkt Atma, vertieft in der Praxis sein. Nächste Woche kommt Bhante Indannano mit seinen Schülern. Vielleicht kommt Bhante Khemakumara auch mit.
 

Roman

November 14, 2018, 01:22:13 PM
wie geht es Khemakumara..dass ist sehr oft in meinen gedanken..ihn nicht direkt fragen zu können dass ist schwierig..nicht auf dem aktuellen zu sein..denke das liegt auch daran dass mich meine famile oft fragt..roman wie gehts marcel
 

Roman

November 14, 2018, 01:16:20 PM
Ja Johann das werde ich meiner familie vorschlagen!
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 01:10:27 PM
Nyom Roman kann jederzeit seine Familie hier her einladen. Da mögen alle mehr Bezug zu dem Streben bekommen und können stets auch Fragen stellen.
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 01:06:07 PM
Da wart ein Forum nur für Nichtklösterliche eingerichtet, zu dem man mit gewisser Mitgliedschaft zugang hat. Mag sicher ein passender Rahmen sein für solches, um da entspannend beizutragen, oder Aramikabereich (Oberforum).
 

Roman

November 14, 2018, 01:05:53 PM
Khemakumara und nicht marcel die person die sich an vergangenen haftet
 

Roman

November 14, 2018, 01:04:12 PM
ehrwürdiger Johann

ja ich vermisse meinen bruder! ich berichte meiner familie von den Ereignissen..Dass is einwenig schwer für mich da familie immer über Marcel spricht und die erinnerungen hochholen wie es mal war! ich versuche ihnen auch zu erklären wie sie es mir versucht haben zu verdeutl
 

Moritz

November 14, 2018, 01:00:07 PM
Ich habe deine Mail gelesen, Roman, und gerade nach einem Thema/Unterforum hier gesucht, was genau für solche Fragen gedacht war: zu erfragen/besprechen/organisieren, was man materiell beisteuern/unterstützen kann.
 

Roman

November 14, 2018, 12:57:01 PM
hallo moritz und johann
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 12:52:02 PM
Nyom Roman vermißt seinen Bruder sehr und kommt aus den Abschiedthemen ganz und gar nicht raus.
 

Moritz

November 14, 2018, 12:47:10 PM
Vandami Bhante _/\_
 

Johann

November 14, 2018, 12:46:33 PM
Werte Herren
 

Moritz

November 14, 2018, 12:43:40 PM
Hallo Roman! _/\_
 

Johann

November 11, 2018, 01:00:38 AM
Sadhu Nyom. "May the Dhamma of the Buddha, and those following, be all beings refuge for a blessed life and beyond."
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 11, 2018, 12:31:09 AM
May the Dhamma be the greatest blessing in our lives today!
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

November 11, 2018, 12:30:17 AM
Möge heute das Dhamma der größte Segen in unserem Leben sein!

Show 50 latest