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Talkbox

2019 May 24 14:13:29
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2019 May 24 13:28:52
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 May 24 05:23:33
Johann: Venerable

2019 May 24 05:22:57
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Johann

2019 May 24 02:08:29
Johann: Nyom Moritz, Nyom Villa.

2019 May 24 01:55:56
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 24 01:54:14
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2019 May 24 01:49:43
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 May 24 01:06:04
Johann: Venerable Ariyadhammika  _/\_

2019 May 20 04:14:26
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 20 01:31:27
Johann:  _/\_ Bhante Indannano

2019 May 19 11:28:39
Khemakumara: Nyom Cheav Villa

2019 May 19 11:27:48
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Johann  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 18 23:55:08
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 May 18 10:34:49
amanaki: Thank you Johann  _/\_

2019 May 18 09:59:33
Johann: Nyom Amanaki. Mudita that you may have possible found what searched for on a special day.

2019 May 18 09:24:56
Maria:  _/\_

2019 May 18 09:24:35
Maria: werter Bhante!

2019 May 18 09:22:43
Johann: Nyom Mizi

2019 May 18 09:21:31
Johann: Nyom Sophorn, Nyom Villa... may all here but also there rejoice in own and others goodness.

2019 May 18 05:03:47
Cheav Villa: សាធុ​សាធុ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 18 02:16:49
Moritz: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 14 07:51:30
Vithou:  _/\_

2019 May 14 05:40:54
Johann: As long as not using telefon while riding. Sokh chomreoun, Nyom.

2019 May 13 18:38:46
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ (sitting in Taxi)

2019 May 12 15:44:32
Johann: But better ask Nyom Chanroth, since Atma does not walk that far these days.

2019 May 12 15:04:01
Johann: not teally, Nyom Vithou. Still less water in the streams here. Some still dry. Needs a while down from the mountains and not that much rain yet.

2019 May 12 14:54:37
Vithou: how is the road Bhante? Is it float at the mountain leg?

2019 May 12 14:51:59
Vithou:   _/\_

2019 May 12 14:40:43
Johann: Nyom Vithou. Nothing special. Yes, rain is present every afternoon since some days.

2019 May 12 14:38:33
Vithou: Bhante, how is everything at Asrum? Is it raining everyday?

2019 May 12 07:05:30
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 12 03:58:19
Johann: a joyful day in merits on this Sila-day

2019 May 11 17:04:10
Cheav Villa:  :) _/\_

2019 May 11 16:16:56
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2019 May 11 05:35:39
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 11 00:52:44
Johann: an meritful Uposatha, those keeping it today

2019 May 10 17:14:43
Moritz: Chom reap leah, I am going to work. _/\_

2019 May 10 17:09:07
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2019 May 10 17:07:14
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 May 10 16:19:14
Moritz: Chom reap sour, bong Villa _/\_

2019 May 07 19:12:10
Johann: Nyom Vithou. Just some hours ago, thought of him.

2019 May 05 04:26:53
Chanroth:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 04 11:41:08
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 04 10:27:38
Khemakumara: Nyom Cheav Villa

2019 May 03 10:08:09
Khemakumara: Sadhu, sadhu, sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 03 01:17:53
Johann: A meritful new moon Uposatha those celebrating it today.

2019 May 03 01:16:05
Johann: Talk box is buggy and lines love to jump. Better not editing.

2019 May 03 01:14:19
Johann: U Chanroth: "ថ្ងៃនេះខ្ញុំបាទ បានទទួលនៅសម្ភារៈមួយចំនួន សម្រាប់កសាងអាស្រមថ្មទូកសូមជូនបុណ្យដល់ពុទ្ធបរិសទ័ទាំងអស់គ

2019 May 02 15:15:58
Cheav Villa:   <.I.> _/\_

2019 May 02 15:15:17
Cheav Villa: Sorry because of kh font doesn't run well on my phone. Kana go to edit  to see the right  shout but  was wrong by deleting Pou  Chanroth 's  shout

2019 May 02 15:01:04
Cheav Villa: Mudita  :) _/\_

2019 May 02 13:47:17
Moritz: Anumodana puñña kusala! _/\_

2019 May 01 14:49:38
Johann: Now some monks are so close to many, that they can be visited even by feet.

2019 May 01 06:27:25
Johann: Thats accoss the whole city and hot (but cloudy  :) ) Best wishes and greatings.

2019 May 01 06:22:36
Cheav Villa: Get lost in the jungle of Phnom Penh from 2pm till 6pm

2019 May 01 05:40:26
Cheav Villa: Bhante Khemakumara arrived at Wat Sophea Khun in late evening  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Apr 29 09:19:56
Johann: Meister Moritz

2019 Apr 29 08:51:27
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Apr 29 03:07:40
Moritz: Chom reap leah _/\_ I am going to sleep.

2019 Apr 29 02:59:19
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2019 Apr 29 02:41:01
Moritz: _/\_ Bong Villa

2019 Apr 29 01:02:45
Johann: let's see wheter the rain has swept away the new floor ...

2019 Apr 28 13:58:19
Cheav Villa: First time of Heavy rain in Phnom Penh  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Apr 28 10:33:14
Cheav Villa: សាធុ​សាធុ  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Apr 28 10:21:50
Johann: Oh, rain.

2019 Apr 28 08:46:02
Johann: Pleasing soft weather, yes  :)

2019 Apr 28 08:45:28
Johann: Atma rejoices with the may who possible are able to see a death man walking toward the deathless, and have even occation for a lot of spontan merits.

2019 Apr 28 07:31:59
Cheav Villa: May​ Bhante be well  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_  The sky has been cloudy since 10:30am

2019 Apr 28 03:02:15
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 May Bhante Khemakumara walk(nimun) safely. _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Apr 27 20:51:41
Johann:  :)

2019 Apr 27 20:51:11
Johann: may it be cloudy (in the hot time) so that feet may be well

2019 Apr 27 17:53:19
Moritz: May Bhante travel safely. _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Apr 27 16:38:40
Cheav Villa: May​ the Mighty Devas protected Bhante Khemakumara along the path to Wat Sophea Khun  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Apr 27 16:03:29
Cheav Villa: ខ្ញុំ​កូណាបាន លឺថា ព្រះអង្គ​ Kemakumara នឹង​និមន្ត ចេញពី វត្ត​អកយំ​ នៅថ្ងៃស្អែក

2019 Apr 27 16:01:32
Cheav Villa: ថ្វាយបង្គំ​ព្រះអង្គ  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Apr 27 14:28:42
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

2019 Apr 27 06:55:13
Johann: Nyom Villa

2019 Apr 27 06:54:35
Cheav Villa:   _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Apr 27 06:31:42
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2019 Apr 27 06:09:34
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Apr 27 05:42:54
Moritz: _/\_

2019 Apr 27 00:54:04
Johann: A blessed and meritful halfmoon Sila-day

2019 Apr 25 07:32:44
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻អរព្រះគុណ ព្រះអង្គ

2019 Apr 25 04:42:51
Johann: Sokh chomreoun, Nyom. (May well-being come to fullfillment.)

2019 Apr 25 02:30:46
Ieng Puthy: តេីលោកRoman មានបំណងទៅវត្តអកយំនៅថ្ងៃណាដែរ?ព្រះអង្គ🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

2019 Apr 25 02:29:26
Ieng Puthy: ករុណានិង បងសុភឿន នឹងជូនលោកRoman ទៅវត្តអកយំបាន

2019 Apr 25 02:28:00
Ieng Puthy: ករុណានិង បង សុភឿន នឹងជួយស

2019 Apr 25 02:27:00
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻ករុណាថ្វាយបង្គំុព្រះអង្គ Vandami Bhante

2019 Apr 24 17:56:05
Cheav Villa: កូណា សរសេរពួកយើង​ គឺជំនួសមុខ​ បងពុទ្ធីនិងសុភឿន  _/\_

2019 Apr 24 17:54:42
Cheav Villa: បង​ពុទ្ធី បានអោយកូណាសួរអំពីពេលវេលា​ ដែលលោកRoman នឹងទៅអកយំ _/\_

2019 Apr 24 17:52:47
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_  កូណាបាន ប្រាប់បងពុទ្ធី និង​សុ​ភឿន ប្រសិនបើគាត់អាចជួយបាន ព្រោះកូណាមិនមានសេរីភាពច្រើនដូចពួកគាត់

2019 Apr 24 17:01:34
Johann: Modern (ab)art of conversation and old patient culture...  :) great training only serious take on and rushing hide on messanger, fb, or in the ocean of Maras internet. Mudita.  :)

2019 Apr 23 13:36:18
Cheav Villa: Kana :D _/\_

2019 Apr 23 13:24:57
Johann: ? But light is always good. Oh, maybe the honey bee candles...: Atma told Upasika Sophorn to take them with her to share, since the mices would eat them away here. Mudita

2019 Apr 23 12:52:51
Cheav Villa: Kana Preah Ang  _/\_ Vithou told kana that Bhante sending us a pair of candles all through Bang Sophorn  :D _/\_

2019 Apr 23 12:06:15
Johann: Nyom Villa. Atma does not understand all circumstances but much mudita and appreciantion with sharing merits with each other, taking each other along good.

2019 Apr 23 11:04:23
Cheav Villa: កូណា ទើបបានដំណឹងពី Vithou ថាព្រះអង្គផ្ញើទានមួយគូមក តាមរយៈ​បងសុភ័ណ​ ខ្ញុំកូណា​សូម​អរព្រះគុណ​  :) _/\_

2019 Apr 23 11:02:19
Cheav Villa: ថ្វាយបង្គំ​ព្រះអង្គ  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

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Author Topic: [ati.eu] Some visions  (Read 1602 times)

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Offline Johann

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[ati.eu] Some visions
« on: March 01, 2019, 09:53:04 AM »
To give some visions why such efforts, Atma thought to give some food for it in regard of comparing and maintaining.

It's thought to have the all Tipitaka-contents of various scripts and language translations in sourcefiles, books, which can be maintained by certain user groups.

With the "include-plugin", or alternative script that allows even more, sections, i.e. single suttas can be fetched and not only viewing but also compared, like in this sample (of course primitive made for now) http://accesstoinsight.eu/user/johann/work/sutta



Other content like that of essays and books quoting suttas are not needed to edit for cases where translations of suttas might be added. It also allows to translate the gifts within ati.eu in a way that is maintain-able for a longer and open for everybody to make merits by contribute where one is able, happy, skilled, gifted in, most free and independent from others and skills one might miss.

Showing single Suttas an fetch other languages, scripts and sources may help huge to not only translate but also search for corrections. One might address one single sutta in a certain language and then selects 1,2,3 other next.

Yet it's therefore possible better to focus on a solid common standard of all given Tipitakas (and there are actually a lot) and translations and to edit them all equal in rendering.

That it is not gotten wrong: Others that if someone is up to gain, or make something "real", suggesting long time happiness where it actually can not be found, like common crowd-fonding, the only interest here lies in possibilities to make merits and only such is actually suggested hardly, on and on. Of course sometimes it requires certain greed after what is actually no refuge, but in the case of good access to Dhamma, citing it again and again, it may more and more lead to the focus inwardly while just using a more gross outwardly object of "entertaining" to focus the mind. So no objectives or wishes that this will ever be finished or "perfect" for such is impossible and simply leads people to turn return and stay or become simple consumer again... like the huge majority of those becoming in a even fine material world like internet, caught firm by Mara and "creators".
« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 10:26:02 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Re: [ati.eu] Some visions
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2019, 10:39:34 AM »
And since there are never real "accidents" when choosing even "random", as a reminder for those who are in "Robin hood" modes or with suggesting reality where there is no, like the many centralizers do, using the common greed to pull many in there aimless dependency, not looking after outhers becoming independent, here also the Commentary story to jat.150

German: http://zugangzureinsicht.org/html/tipitaka/kn/j/j03/j150.html

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

„Wer gerne etwas Böses tut und wer dem Bösen sich ergibt, den stürzt das Böse ins Verderben, so wie der Tiger den Sanjiva.“

English: http://zugangzureinsicht.org/html/tipitaka/kn/j/j03/j150_en.html

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

Befriend a villain, aid him in his need, And, like that tiger which Sañjīva [214] raised To life, he straight devours you for your pains.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Re: [ati.eu] Some visions
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2019, 10:50:37 AM »
And as "accidents" take there round... it seems to be the root of even my persons so often retold Khmer-folktale, there hermit:

Der großartige Hermit rettet das Leben des Tigers.
(Mahā Īsī Proh Khlā)

Einst schlief ein Tiger vor einem Schlangenloch, die Schlange kam heraus, biß in, und verletzte ihn tödlich. Zur selben Zeit war ein großartiger Einsiedler auf seinem Weg und passierte die Stelle. Weil sein Herz so von Gute durchdrungen war, wiederbelebte er den Tiger.

Der Tiger, den der großartige Hermit geheilt hatte, sagte: „Ich war gut und schnell eingeschlafen. Warum weckst du mich auf? Eben deshalb werde ich dich fressen müssen.“

Der großartige Einsiedler erwiderte: “Du hast vor einem Schlangenloch geschlafen und die Schlange kam raus, biß dich und du bist daran gestorben. Ich habe dich wieder zum Leben erweckt. Warum wünscht du nun mich zu fressen?“

Der Tiger und der großartige Hermit hatten da nun einen Disput. Da fragten sie den Schakal um Hilfe. Der Tiger und der großartige Hermit erklärten den Grund des Disputes. Der Schakal dachte: „Wenn ich den Tiger verurteile, sodaß er den Fall verliert, werde ich mich nicht mehr auf seine Macht in diesem Wald stützen können.“ Der Schakal urteilte den Fall entsprechend seiner Neigung die durch Liebe und Anhaftung (chandāgati) seine Ursache fand.

Der großartige Hermit akzeptierte seine Entscheidung nicht. Dann trafen sie einen Ochsen und erzählten ihm was passiert sein. Das Urteil der Kuh beruhte auf die Erwägung: „Wenn ich dem Tiger nicht helfe, wird er mich hassen und mich fressen.“ So half der Ochse dem Tiger zu gewinnen. Sein Urteil war seiner Angst zugeneigt (bhayāgati).

Dann bat der großartige Hermit einen Affen um Hilfe. Der Affe dachte: „In der Vergangenheit fiel ein Mann in einen Brunnen und mein Vater half ihm und dennoch aß der Handwerker meinen Vater.“ Das Urteil des Affen war durch Haß und Feindseligkeit getrübt (dosāgati).

Der vierte Richter war ein Bussard. Er dachte sich: „Zur Zeit bekomme ich mein Futter von den Essensresten des Tigers. Wenn ich gegen ihn entscheide, wird er böse auf mich sein. Wie wird es mir dann möglich sein von ihm Nahrung zu bekommen?“ Des Bussards Urteil war durch seine Gier und Verlangen voreingenommen (lophāgati).

Der großartige Hermit war abermals nicht einverstanden und so ging er zu einer Baumgottheit. Diese dachte: „Leute spazieren in den Wald, suchen Unterschlupf und brechen und schneiden stets Blätter ab.“ So urteilte die Gottheit zu Gunsten des Tigers. Sein Urteil war durch seinen Wahn und Dummheit getrübt. (Mohāgati).

Aber der großartige Hermit akzeptierte sein Urteil nicht. Er bat den Richter Hase um Hilfe und erklärte abermals war geschehen war. Der großartige Hermit sagte: „Dieser Tiger, der vor einem Schlangenloch schlief, würde durch einen Schlangenbiß getötet. Ich holte ihn mit meinen magischen Künsten zum Leben zurück. Dennoch ist er undankbar und will mich jetzt sogar fressen. Bitte mein Herr, überdenken sie diesen Fall und helfen sie mir."

Der Tiger erklärte: “Während ich wunderbar schlief, weckte mich der großartige Hermit auf. Aus diesem Grund bin ich geneigt ihn zu fressen. Er akzeptierte das nicht. Er bat den Schakal, den Ochsen, den Affen, den Bussard und die Baumgottheit um Hilfe und all diese Richter entschieden für mich. So bitte helfe mir.“

Die Erklärungen des Hermit und des Tigers angehört, überdachte der Richter Hase dieses, indem er mit seinem Verstand abwog. Er gab folgende Anweisung: „Lastet den Hermit und Bruder Tiger zurück an den Platz gehen, wo sich dieses Geschehnis zugetragen hatte und ich werde darüber nochmal urteilen. Sie waren damit einverstanden und gingen dorthin zurück.

Als der großartige Hermit und der Tiger den Platz erreichten, legte sich der Tiger wieder vor das Schlangenloch und schlief ein. Nach einer Weile kam die Schlange heraus, biß den Tiger und dieser starb. Richter Hase richtete sich an den Hermit: „Sehe dir diesen Tiger an. Durch seine Undankbarkeit starb er mit eigener Übereinkunft. Von nun an sei nicht mehr großzügig gegenüber dem Tiger.“ Dieses Urteil des Richter Hasen basierte auf dessen Unabhängigkeit, Fairness und einer ehrlichen Art zu denken.

Die bekannte Geschichte ist der Arbeit An Analysis of the Trickster Archetype as Represented by the Rabbit Character in Khmer Folktales (pdf) entnommen. In dieser Arbeiten finden sich auch zahlreiche Erklärungen über die Rolle des Richter Hasen und den buddhistischen Hintergründen in den kambodschanischen Volksmärchen.




Mahā Īsī Proh Khlā (The Great Hermit Saves the Tiger’s Life)

Once a tiger was sleeping in front of a snake’s hole, The snake came out, bit and killed the tiger. Meanwhile a great hermit out on a journey happened to wander past that place. Because his heart was so kind, he revived the tiger back to life.
The tiger, whom the great hermit had cured, said, “I was well and fast asleep. Why do you awaken me? Because of that I need to eat you.”
The great hermit replied: “You had been sleeping in front of a snake’s hole, and the snake bit you and you died. I have restored your life. Why do you want to eat me?”
The tiger and the great hermit had a dispute with each other. Hence they asked the jackal for help. The tiger and the great hermit explained what the dispute was. The jackal thought: “If I judge that the tiger loses the case, I won’t be able to depend on his power in this forest anymore.” That the jackal judged the case like this was due to his bias caused by love or desire (chandāgati).
The great hermit did not accept this resolution. Then they found a cow judge and told him what happened. The cow judge reckoned that, “If I do not help the tiger, he will hate me and eat me.” So the cow helped the tiger to win. His judgment was biased by fear (bhayāgati).
Then the great hermit asked a monkey for help. The monkey thought: “In the past, a man had fallen into the well and my father helped him; however that crafty man ate my father.” The monkey’s judgment was clouded by hatred or enmity (dosāgati).
The fourth judge was a buzzard. He thought to himself, “Currently I often get my food from the remains of a tiger’s meal. If I decide against the tiger, he will be angry with me. How will I be able to get my food from him?” The buzzard’s judgment was biased by his greed or desire (lophāgati).
The great hermit disagreed again and he went to a tree spirit who thought, “People walking in the forest and taking shelter always break and cut off the leaves.” So the tree spirit judged in favor of the tiger. His judgment was biased by delusion or stupidity (Mohāgati).
But the great hermit did not accept this judgment. He asked Judge Rabbit for help and explained what happened again to the rabbit. The great hermit said, “This tiger who was sleeping in front of the snake’s hole was killed by the snake’s bite. I returned him to

life by using my magic charm. However he is ungrateful. Now he wants to eat me anyway. Please, sir, consider this case and help me.”
The tiger explained: “While I was comfortably sleeping, the great hermit awakens me. Consequently I am tempted to eat him. He did not accept this. He asked the jackal, the cow, the monkey, the buzzard and the tree spirit for help; and all these judges decided for me. Please help me.”
Hearing the great hermit’s and the tiger’s explanations, Judge Rabbit considered them, relying on his intelligence. He gave the following order: “Let the great hermit and Brother Tiger go back to where this incident happened, and I will judge it again.” They also agreed and went back there.
When the great hermit and the tiger approached that place, the tiger went to sleep on the snake’s hole again. After a while the snake came out, bit the tiger who then died. Then Judge Rabbit advised the great hermit, “Please look at that tiger. Due to his ingratitude he has died of his own accord. From now on, don’t be so generous to a tiger.” This judgment of Judge Rabbit was based upon his independent, fair and honest way of thinking.


Explaining:

“The Great Hermit Saves the Tiger’s Life” (PRBK 2001: 3, 1).54 Here, rabbit judges
without bias the case of the great hermit and the tiger. This folktale describes a great hermit who saves the life of a tiger bitten while sleeping in front of a snake’s hole, but the ungrateful tiger wants to eat him anyway. Therefore, they go off to find a judge who will settle their dispute. The first judge is a jackal. His bias is partially caused by love or desire (chandāgati). He says to himself, “If I judge the tiger and lose the case, I won’t be able to depend on his power in this forest.” Not accepting this judgment they go to the second judge, a cow. He is prejudiced by fear (bhayāgati). He reckons that, “If I do not help the tiger, he will hate me and eat me.” Being dissatisfied with that judgment, they go to the third judge, a monkey. His bias is caused by hatred or enmity (dosāgati). He thinks that, “In the past, a man had fallen into a well and my father helped him, however that crafty man ate my father.” Disagreeing with that judgment, they go to the fourth judge, a buzzard, who is prejudiced by greed or desire (lophāgati). He thinks that, “Today I frequently get my food from the remains of the tiger’s meal. If I judge that the tiger should lose the case, he will be angry with me; and how can I get the food from him?” Being dissatisfied with that discernment, they go to the fifth judge, a tree spirit. He is prejudiced by delusion or stupidity (mohāgati). He decides that, “People walking to the forest and taking shelter always break and cut off the leaves so I will judge that the tiger wins the case.” The last judge is the rabbit who is independent and neutral (sugatigamanam). He orders the tiger to go back to where the original event had taken place and if the tiger remains unbitten by the snake, he wins. Rabbit was not intimidated by the tiger’s physical power. He judged wisely, excluding love, hatred, greed, and delusion. It is clear that these four concepts are taken from the Buddhist ideas of how to be a good ruler or king. That is to say the good king and ruler must conduct his duties according to them (Payutto 1996: 24). A comparison between Judge Rabbit and the other animals and supernatural judges—cow, wolf, buzzard, tree spirit, and monkey—indicates that only the rabbit is an impartial judge. He represents the wisest one.

For more details see: An Analysis of the Trickster Archetype as Represented by the Rabbit Character in Khmer Folktales in the library.


And it's possible a good time to leave those so often warned, after having initiate to "gain life again", runing their ways as they are not capable to get changed, althought they will not understand even if effects of given causes will ripe.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 10:58:28 AM by Johann »
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