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Talkbox

2019 Sep 14 01:20:37
Johann: (no problem at all) A blessed and meritful conducted Uposatha those observing it today.

2019 Sep 13 16:07:47
Cheav Villa: សុំទោស _/\_

2019 Sep 13 16:06:36
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2019 Sep 13 15:53:17
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Varado _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 13 15:51:32
Johann:  _/\_ Bante Varado. Nyom Morotz, Nyom Villa.

2019 Sep 13 15:50:03
Cheav Villa: Master Morit  :) _/\_

2019 Sep 13 15:47:31
Moritz: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Varado _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Johann _/\_ Bong Villa

2019 Sep 13 00:35:39
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 12 20:36:10
Johann: Beyound birth, stand, age, gender, lay or in robes.

2019 Sep 12 20:33:57
Johann: No way for one not gained relation at time.

2019 Sep 12 20:33:01
Johann: Beings, indeed, find only that what they are looking for, and seldom, very seldom, it's related upwatdly, even release in unbond.

2019 Sep 12 17:35:22
Johann: (Delayed) Bhante.

2019 Sep 12 16:16:22
Khemakumara: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Johann

2019 Sep 12 16:16:03
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Varado

2019 Sep 12 10:25:12
Cheav Villa: សូមសុខ សុវត្ថិភាពតាមផ្លូវ _/\_

2019 Sep 12 10:14:50
Chanroth:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ខ្ញុំទៅ v.n​ ដេីម្បីព្យាបាលជម្ងឺក្រពះ របស់ម្ដាយខ្ញុំ

2019 Sep 12 09:45:43
Johann: Bhante. May Bhante look at his Kuti .

2019 Sep 12 09:02:52
Varado: Thanks for fixing that. May you be well.

2019 Sep 12 08:41:30
Varado: Is the Glossary still available for download?

2019 Sep 12 08:26:31
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhate _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ How is Bhante's health?  _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 09 13:03:42
Johann:  _/\_ Bhante Varado

2019 Sep 07 11:49:16
Vithou:  _/\_

2019 Sep 07 09:12:43
Chanroth:  :( :( :(

2019 Sep 07 09:11:31
Chanroth:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 07 09:11:27
Chanroth:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 07 01:50:59
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 07 00:53:49
Johann: A meritful Uposatha observance those who undertake it today.

2019 Sep 06 11:58:54
Johann:  _/\_ Bhante. Might have been an auto mail (and not so importand). He could share it in his kuti, if wishing.

2019 Sep 06 11:53:04
Yocakkhuma: There was an email in German I didn't get the meaning..?!

2019 Sep 06 11:49:40
Yocakkhuma: Hi everyone, may all beings be happy

2019 Sep 06 08:29:17
Ieng Puthy: ករុណា ព្រះអង្គ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 06 08:08:29
Johann: Atma's health is dhammata, nothing special, Nyom.

2019 Sep 06 08:06:42
Johann: Nyom Buddhi. Mudita that she could access again.

2019 Sep 06 07:41:15
Ieng Puthy:  _/\_How is Bhante health?

2019 Sep 06 07:35:57
Ieng Puthy:  _/\_ អរព្រះគុណ ព្រះអង្គ Vandami Bhante

2019 Sep 06 07:32:24
Ieng Puthy: Chum Reap Sour   _/\_Mr Moritz

2019 Sep 06 07:30:55
Ieng Puthy: ករុណាសូមថ្វាយបង្គំុ Khemakumara Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 06 07:21:17
Ieng Puthy: Vandami Bhante  _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 06 06:20:55
Johann: mudita

2019 Sep 06 06:01:57
Cheav Villa: Kana Prah Ang, She forgot username' password. And kana had sent her already about the info. _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 06 05:51:33
Johann: Did Nyom get the email? If any question, she may not hesitate to raise.

2019 Sep 06 04:55:56
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 06 04:49:44
Johann: It's like practicing Jhana. Importand to remember how to enter, how to leave.

2019 Sep 06 04:47:12
Johann: Ieng Puthy  :) Atma had send Nyom an email for her access datas.

2019 Sep 06 04:39:34
Cheav Villa: She forgot username's password _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 06 04:35:33
Cheav Villa: Kana had sent her email and password already, she could not accessible _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 06 04:18:55
Johann: Good. Atma thinks it's easier to make it new and then send an email to Nyom Villa.

2019 Sep 06 04:15:27
Johann: but Atma had send Nyom a PM once, right? Maybe, if Nyom gave her access, she can look into her PM's. again.

2019 Sep 06 04:13:41
Cheav Villa: Kana  _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2019 Sep 06 04:11:05
Johann: She can either use the link "forgot passwort" and will get an email. Or, if no access to email, Atma could make a new pass word. (My person thought so, that it got lost))

2019 Sep 06 03:07:38
Cheav Villa: Sister Puthy, in this morning asked Kana she forgot her login password into Sangham.net  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 06 03:06:19
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 06 01:50:10
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 06 01:45:46
Johann: A pleasing and meritful Uposatha, those observing it today.

2019 Sep 05 12:00:09
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2019 Sep 05 10:10:57
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Aug 30 03:50:22
Johann: Seams as if the rain leaves way to make a round

2019 Aug 30 02:34:32
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 30 01:33:20
Johann: and may those observing it today enjoy the rest in doing merits as well

2019 Aug 29 02:10:10
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 29 01:58:34
Johann: An admirable New-moon Uposatha observing all those conducting it today.

2019 Aug 25 15:07:04
Vithou:  _/\_

2019 Aug 23 06:28:14
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 23 06:06:18
Johann: At least here in the vally, people celebrate the Uposatha today. May it be blessed and meritful spend by those taking part.

2019 Aug 22 12:53:30
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2019 Aug 22 10:04:46
Moritz: Chom reap leah _/\_

2019 Aug 22 10:01:05
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Bong Villa _/\_

2019 Aug 21 10:59:03
Johann: May Sukha come to fulfillment, Nyom.

2019 Aug 21 10:44:55
Moritz: Chom reap leah, Bhante _/\_ I have some other stuff to do now and will come back later. _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 21 09:15:49
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2019 Aug 21 08:22:24
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 20 11:46:26
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante  _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 20 11:25:55
Johann: Nyom Villa

2019 Aug 16 12:51:30
Johann: Does she have any technical difficulty? Just because such could be.

2019 Aug 16 12:50:14
Johann: Nyom Anneliese

2019 Aug 15 04:29:20
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Sadhu

2019 Aug 15 03:49:34
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 15 00:36:44
Johann: A blessed full moon Upusatha and much joy in merits

2019 Aug 11 14:35:01
Mohan Gnanathilake: Dear The Most Reverend Samanera Johann, Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka! Sehr ehrwürdiger Samanera Johann, Dhamma Grüße an Sie aus Sri Lanka!

2019 Aug 11 14:32:29
Mohan Gnanathilake: Dear The Most Reverend Samanera Johann, Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!

2019 Aug 11 14:14:46
Johann: Nyom Mohan

2019 Aug 11 07:32:16
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 11 01:15:57
Johann: Nothing much burdensome this time, Nyom Villa.

2019 Aug 10 16:42:46
Cheav Villa: How is Bhante health?  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 10 16:28:44
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 10 15:04:44
Johann: Nyom Vithou, Nyom Villa

2019 Aug 08 02:03:56
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 08 01:32:20
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ sadhu

2019 Aug 08 00:29:15
Johann: A blessed Uposatha-Sila-observation day and much recoicing with ones beauty investments and gains.

2019 Aug 03 01:35:23
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2019 Aug 03 01:09:55
Moritz: (or morning...)

2019 Aug 03 01:09:31
Moritz: Good evening, Bhante _/\_

2019 Aug 02 08:54:49
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 02 07:30:06
Johann: Once really going for refuge, such is ensured.

2019 Aug 02 07:28:16
Johann: Sadhu, Sadhu

2019 Aug 02 07:04:04
Cheav Villa: May all suffering being healed under the refuge of the three gems _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 02 05:36:31
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2019 Aug 02 05:28:41
Moritz: (going to sleep now) _/\_

2019 Aug 02 05:28:24
Moritz: _/\_

2019 Aug 02 05:28:21
Moritz: Good morning, Bhante, bong Villa!

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Author Topic: [Q&A] Dukkha vs legitimate need  (Read 845 times)

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Online Johann

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[Q&A] Dukkha vs legitimate need
« on: March 08, 2019, 02:16:44 PM »
Dukkha vs legitimate need

Quote from: Asked by Nyom Alex on BSE

I heard a talk by Ajahn Amaro that says that wherever I encounter dukha, it is a sign that there is a attachment involved, that I can let go of and this way free myself from the attachment.

https://youtu.be/-h_O_SuKOKE?t=2823

But this way, what prevents me from laying down and dying from hunger or thirst - if I feel hunger, it may be dukha from my attachment to food, or to survival...

What is the difference between attachment and legitimate needs?

Thanks for answering a noob question.

Here, how ever a modified, expanded answer

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Venerable memebers of the Sangha,
Ven. Fellows,

Upasak, Upasika,

Nyom Alex, and those interested,

"What is the difference between attachment and legitimate needs?"


What's a legitimate need? One, one would tolerate because having still the same incapacity, like laws are usually made, or common-society conducts agreements? Desires are endless and most cause harm, even if agreed for a particular common society and not that of Nobel Ones. Therefore better to focus on (given/giving) actions (causes) than "material" things or fruits (effects). Effects need (their) related giving into to cause certain appearing.

The Dhamma is not about "rights" but about "duties" to be fulfilled if wishing for certain aim. No right and legitimization of improper given by anybody, but cause and effect seen clear, explained what one should do and one should not do to gain long lasting freedom from suffering!

A legitimate action for a good for one self and all others, which is required - by thoughts, words or hysical deeds - is one that does neither take live, take others possession, takes away the truth, takes sensuality harmful from others around, takes away ones heed-fullness by intoxication: i.e. the precepts). That's probably not so good matched if just saying "let go" generally, and the precepts help that defilements would not have a change to cheat and argue.

At least right effort is twofold: what to nourish, force, develop and what to denourish, under-press and relinquish. So one should never let go of good: i.e. generosity is good, not taking live, taking what is not giving, signs that steal the truth... not intoxicating oneself, respect those/that worthy of respect, helping ones parents, tending to renouncing of ordinary life.

One who would let go of needed, path, good... such is a fool or didn't got it right told. So a lot of "greed" is required to gain long lasting happiness and go beyond suffering and as one knows ever sacrifice is hurtful at first place.

What then might be left as attachment, after having given up the bad and grasping the good, fine. One might just look inside in a more refined way, since dukkha would probably again arise.

As the Sublime Buddha told: it's much better to bear Dukkha then to break the precepts, let go of good.

And at least one could go just for alms: is that legitimate where you live, in the modern society and it's rules so pride on them?  That's the highest way of conduct and livelihood, to provide ones "needs" (4 paccaya) without doing any reasonable harm to anyone, aside oneself if doing such for impure aims, just to be able to cross to the other shore and/or to give others a possibility to make good and fruitful merits (to get a little bond to liberation).

Train Your Hunger (The Sea Squirt) might be a useful talk in addition here.

And what worth would it have to just let go before really free of Dukkha? "I gave up everything, yet still suffer...?", since the deep, hard root of it was not traced, not seen. It's most legitimate to seek for overcoming all Dukkha, although there might be those don't like to see one liberated while by one self caught , since it benefits all, incl. those disliking it, incl. oneself. Proper way (without violating precepts) to maintain one body (for ones safety here and later) and the entertainment of mind, livelihood for the mind, is also important, best if dwelling in Jhana 3+ or talk, deeds around Dhamma.

Another expanded teaching, to understand the different of Wisdom/real compassion and Justice is:

Wisdom over Justice , by Ven. Thanissaro Bhikkhu (2017; 17p./90kB) [PDF icon]
    Bhante Thanissaro gives here a patiently talk, in form of an essay, why skillful means are more important then to pursuit a certain right or a final objectivity and points out generosily, why so many practicing people have a hardship in regard of central worldview, so that it could be possible understood in it's details. Engaged Buddhism is against usual views and means around it not a tabu, following the Buddhas ideas about it.


...which might explain further the different of common and popular views and that of the wise and traditional.

Finally a clear approach of the sages at the Sublime Buddhas time:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

As he was sitting there, Ven. Sariputta said to him, "I trust, Dhanañjani, that you are heedful?"

"From where would we get any heedfulness, master? — when parents are to be supported, wife & children are to be supported, slaves & workers are to be supported, friend-&-companion duties are to be done for friends & companions, kinsmen-&-relative duties for kinsmen & relatives, guest duties for guests, departed-ancestor duties for departed ancestors, devata duties for devatas, king duties for the king, and this body also has to be refreshed & nourished."

"What do you think Dhanañjani? There is the case where a certain person, for the sake of his mother & father, does what is unrighteous, does what is discordant. Then, because of his unrighteous, discordant behavior, hell-wardens drag him off to hell. Would he gain anything by saying, 'I did what is unrighteous, what is discordant, for the sake of my mother & father. Don't [throw] me into hell, hell-wardens!' Or would his mother & father gain anything for him by saying, 'He did what is unrighteous, what is discordant, for our sake. Don't [throw] him into hell, hell-wardens!'?"

"No, master Sariputta. Even right while he was wailing, they'd cast him into hell."

"What do you think Dhanañjani? There is the case where a certain person, for the sake of his wife & children ... his slaves & workers ... his friends & companions ... his kinsmen & relatives ... his guests ... his departed ancestors ... the devatas ... the king, does what is unrighteous, does what is discordant. Then, because of his unrighteous, discordant behavior, hell-wardens drag him off to hell. Would he gain anything by saying, 'I did what is unrighteous, what is discordant, for the sake of the king. Don't [throw] me into hell, hell-wardens!' Or would the king gain anything for him by saying, 'He did what is unrighteous, what is discordant, for our sake. Don't [throw] him into hell, hell-wardens!'?"

"No, master Sariputta. Even right while he was wailing, they'd cast him into hell."

"What do you think Dhanañjani? There is the case where a certain person, for the sake of refreshing & nourishing his body, does what is unrighteous, does what is discordant. Then, because of his unrighteous, discordant behavior, hell-wardens drag him off to hell. Would he gain anything by saying, 'I did what is unrighteous, what is discordant, for the sake of refreshing & nourishing my body. Don't [throw] me into hell, hell-wardens!' Or would others gain anything for him by saying, 'He did what is unrighteous, what is discordant, for the sake of refreshing & nourishing his body. Don't [throw] him into hell, hell-wardens!'?"

"No, master Sariputta. Even right while he was wailing, they'd cast him into hell."

"Now, what do you think, Dhanañjani? Which is the better: one who, for the sake of his mother & father, would do what is unrighteous, what is discordant; or one who, for the sake of his mother & father, would do what is righteous, what is concordant?

"Master Sariputta, the one who, for the sake of his mother & father, would do what is unrighteous, what is discordant, is not the better one. The one who, for the sake of his mother & father, would do what is righteous, what is concordant would be the better one there. Righteous behavior, concordant behavior, is better than unrighteous behavior, discordant behavior.[2]

"Dhanañjani, there are other activities — reasonable, righteous — by which one can support one's mother & father, and at the same time both not do evil and practice the practice of merit.

"What do you think, Dhanañjani: Which is the better: one who, for the sake of his wife & children ... his slaves & workers ... his friends & companions ... his kinsmen & relatives ... his guests ... his departed ancestors ... the devatas ... the king ... refreshing & nourishing his body, would do what is unrighteous, what is discordant; or one who, for the sake of refreshing & nourishing his body, would do what is righteous, what is concordant?

"Master Sariputta, the one who, for the sake of refreshing & nourishing his body, would do what is unrighteous, what is discordant, is not the better one. The one who, for the sake of refreshing & nourishing his body, would do what is righteous, what is concordant would be the better one there. Righteous behavior, concordant behavior, is better than unrighteous behavior, discordant behavior.[3]

 "Dhanañjani, there are other activities — reasonable, righteous — by which one can refresh & nourish one's body, and at the same time both not do evil and practice the practice of merit."

Then Dhanañjani the brahman, delighting & rejoicing in Ven. Sariputta's words, got up from his seat and left.

Mudita

Quote from: Alex to the sorter talk
Thanks a lot! I was very happy to read this talk - very inspiring and clarifying things! And also directly answers the question I asked!
« Last Edit: March 08, 2019, 02:24:30 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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