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Talkbox

2019 Mar 25 15:28:24
Johann: Others, even if pure, is open for critic and bad assumings. Envy, jealously... on each side. So to become not susbected, needs good advices, double hard for woman to act perfect.

2019 Mar 25 15:23:21
Johann: Pappies can give good lessons when they don't fall, but the deeper, the hard training, must come from liberal mommies for daughters and liberal pappies for sons, in the world and for beyond.

2019 Mar 25 15:11:15
Cheav Villa:   _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Mar 25 15:04:40
Johann: Does mommy generally don't actually love her child when not react?

2019 Mar 25 15:03:13
Johann: Mommy, mommy... but I like... ohh, they bite me... I am hungry... when do we go back?... why must we sit here... mommy!

2019 Mar 25 15:00:37
Johann: Which can be changed all the time, with feeding rightly.

2019 Mar 25 14:55:50
Cheav Villa: កូណាសង្ឃឹមថា.​ ជារឿងឧបនិស្ស័យ.​  :D _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Mar 25 14:50:25
Johann: ...teaching and mirror.

2019 Mar 25 14:49:40
Johann: When one is stressed or busy, remember how many times one him/herself was so as well. Intention will always has it's effects, sometimes quick, sometimes even sisters, mother and child... Nyom wouldn't have become here, if there would be not long, long bounds. Watch your child. Thats always a great t

2019 Mar 25 14:40:41
Cheav Villa: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Mar 25 14:39:48
Cheav Villa: ព្រោះកូណាមិនអាចទៅឱរ៉ាល់បានកំឡុងពេលនេះ តែអាចជួបនៅភ្នំពេញបាន តែចេតនាម្ខាងមិនចង់ជួប ទើបមិនអាចជួប

2019 Mar 25 14:38:39
Cheav Villa: កូណាគ្រាន់តែចង់បញ្ជាក់អំពីចេតនា ដែលម្នាក់មាន និងម្នាក់គ្មាន ក្នុងការ​ជួបគ្នា.ជាហេតុមិនបានជួប :D _/\_

2019 Mar 25 14:37:02
Cheav Villa:    _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Mar 25 13:44:16
Johann: Nyom Vithou. Foot well again?

2019 Mar 25 11:56:36
Johann: Good stories: The Healing of the Bull and Prisoners of Karma .

2019 Mar 25 11:51:20
Johann: Although monks are allowed to explain how to work oneself out, they are not given to liberate "slaves", prisoner, as this would count as thief.

2019 Mar 25 11:46:29
Johann: When one is "bond" in families, relations... there is so much soil and danger for envy and jealously, and itjs not easy to "pay" one out. Normal being live from making others depending on one and fear to lose a "cattle" they gave so much into.

2019 Mar 25 09:53:57
Khemakumara: Nyom Cheav Villa

2019 Mar 25 05:00:43
Johann: Some pull back and offer favors, less are giving ways out. Let them wishing to live in cities go back, maintaining homes. Bond by mara there is no escape, they leave alm bowls behind and step into cars, to "help".

2019 Mar 25 04:11:30
Johann: One (who ever) gives the best when helping, assist, in sharing Dhamma, translate it, sort it, easy accessable and maintain it, by proper and given means.

2019 Mar 25 04:03:32
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2019 Mar 25 03:53:23
Johann: One stopped at the topic Sangahak, worldily and best. It's hard to try to translate but bears a lot of fruits. Conceit is dangerous, and a feeling of "right" turns quick into lose. Satipatthana, the right workingplaces. And again Ways of  

2019 Mar 25 02:53:11
Kong Sokdina: ដំណើរផ្លូវឆ្ងាយ មិនប្រមាណ បាននូវសេចក្ដីប្រមាថ។

2019 Mar 24 18:54:30
Cheav Villa: ជាចិត្តលំអៀងព្រោះជំពាក់ក្នុងសេចក្តីស្រលាញ់សាច់ញាតិ​ បងប្អូន.​ ឪពុកម្ដាយ​  ^-^

2019 Mar 24 18:49:47
Cheav Villa: ជារឿងដដែល យូរណាស់មកហើយ  ខ្ញុំ​កូណាគួរតែបានរកឃើញផ្លូវកណ្តាល​  :) _/\_

2019 Mar 24 18:48:21
Cheav Villa: ការជាប់ជំពាក់នៅក្នុងការជួយអ្នកដទៃ ការជាប់ជំពាក់នៅក្នុងការចង់អោយគេបានសុខ តែងនាំសេចក្តីទុក្ខ ដល់ខ្លួន

2019 Mar 24 13:23:44
Johann: Nyom Senghour

2019 Mar 23 06:34:02
Johann: No problem Nyom Vithou.

2019 Mar 23 04:32:25
Vithou: ngyom kuna will inform Preah Ang later when kuna get better

2019 Mar 23 04:31:12
Vithou: Preah Ang, ngyom kuna cannot go Phnom Aural tomorrow due to my foot problem. I let is a bit pain and Ngyom kuna cannot walk properly

2019 Mar 20 19:02:36
Johann: May Nyom have a safe and careful travel, when ever he might do.

2019 Mar 20 18:46:53
Johann: Now, Nyom Moritz and Nyom Sophorn are here in the forest. Atma does not know how long.

2019 Mar 20 18:20:42
Vithou: Nyom Kuna planning to see Moritz and Bong Sophorn as well

2019 Mar 20 18:17:26
Vithou: Nyom Kuna planning to go Phnom Oral on Sunday

2019 Mar 20 18:16:07
Vithou: Nyom Kuna was sick too long after remove kidney stone . ( about 2 months ) and skittle busy with human job

2019 Mar 20 18:13:50
Vithou: Is Moritz and Bong Sophorn at Asram now?

2019 Mar 20 18:12:02
Vithou: Kuna Preah Ang

2019 Mar 20 18:05:01
Johann: Nyom Vithou

2019 Mar 20 12:25:25
Johann: here and now

2019 Mar 20 09:04:34
Cheav Villa: To reach the end of the cosmos to go beyond   _/\_

2019 Mar 20 08:49:03
Johann: Oh.. wrong, here: Rohitassa Sutta

2019 Mar 20 08:45:24
Johann: There is nothing to far that the mind, oneself, could not reach it in the Universe. Yet end of suffering can not found. But it requires to reach the end of the cosmos to go beyound. Lokayatika Sutta

2019 Mar 20 08:14:55
Chanroth:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Mar 20 06:34:16
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻ករុណាសូមថ្វាយបង្គំុ Vandami Bhante ពីចំងាយ

2019 Mar 20 06:32:27
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 សាធុុ សាធុ សាធុ! ថ្ងៃឧបោសថ ករុណាសូមចូលរួមត្រេកអរដែរ😇🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

2019 Mar 20 06:13:30
Johann: Mudita

2019 Mar 20 05:52:37
Cheav Villa: ថ្ងៃឧបោសថ​  :)​ កូណាចូលរួមត្រេកអរដល់សេរីភាពរបស់ពួកគាត់  _/\_

2019 Mar 19 13:56:41
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2019 Mar 19 08:47:34
Johann: Knowing this, one is able to share family (of supporter), honor, dwelling, gains, dhamma, having a clear sense of gratitude.

2019 Mar 19 08:44:19
Johann: And what is the reason of macchariya disapearing? Knowning, remembering, form, sound...ideas are no refuge, not real, not worthy to fall for, not ones own.

2019 Mar 19 08:41:50
Johann: "May macchariya (stinginess) become its needed reduce, so that the goodness of Dhamma may reaches more intensive", is that right translated? Sadhu. Not an easy task althought one might think.

2019 Mar 19 08:07:30
Cheav Villa: សូមអោយមច្ឆរិយ.​ ត្រូវបានកាត់បន្ថយ ដើម្បីគុណធម៌ដែលខ្ពស់ជាង _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Mar 19 01:39:39
Johann: May all have always a good travel, meet each other in best furtune along there ways. May no one get hurt in the traffic after happiness.

2019 Mar 18 10:21:51
Moritz: hello empty yogi _/\_

2019 Mar 18 10:21:23
Moritz: Vandami bhante _/\_

2019 Mar 18 10:21:22
Moritz: Vandami bhante _/\_

2019 Mar 16 08:19:42
Johann:  _/\_ Bhante Indannano

2019 Mar 15 04:20:37
Johann: Nyom Buddhi

2019 Mar 14 16:00:28
Cheav Villa: កូណា​ថ្វាយបង្គំ​លា​ សូមព្រះអង្គឆាប់បានសំរាក​  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Mar 14 09:13:11
Kong Sokdina: Hello!

2019 Mar 14 08:35:17
Johann: Nyom Kong Sokdina

2019 Mar 14 08:10:07
Johann: A meritful Sila-day those who observe it today

2019 Mar 13 11:18:19
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Mar 13 09:23:36
Johann: A meritful Sila-day those who observe it today, btw.

2019 Mar 10 02:03:42
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2019 Mar 09 07:45:59
Moritz: Good morning, Cheav Villa _/\_

2019 Mar 07 12:10:15
Cheav Villa: កូណាព្រះអង្គ  _/\_

2019 Mar 07 12:05:44
Johann: My person is not sure but Nyom Chanroths wife might try to go back from PP tomorrow as well, Nyom.

2019 Mar 07 01:21:24
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Mar 07 01:18:59
Johann: May you have a safe and slow travel.

2019 Mar 07 01:10:20
Cheav Villa: ចេញពី​ភ្នំពេញ​នៅម៉ោង5ព្រឹក :)  _/\_

2019 Mar 07 01:09:25
Cheav Villa: ពួកខ្ញុំកូណា និង បង​ភឿន​ នឹងទៅសួរសុខទុក្ខព្រះអង្គនៅថ្ងៃស្អែក

2019 Mar 07 01:08:34
Johann: Nyom Villa

2019 Mar 07 01:07:32
Cheav Villa: ថ្វាយបង្គំ​ព្រះអង្គ  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Mar 06 03:31:04
Cheav Villa: Have a good day to Master Moritz  _/\_

2019 Mar 06 03:29:38
Moritz: And good night for me. :) Chom reap leah. May all have a good Uposatha _/\_

2019 Mar 06 03:27:51
Moritz: Good morning, Cheav Villa _/\_

2019 Mar 06 03:17:49
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Mar 06 03:05:26
Johann: A self-blessed (by ones deeds) Uposathaday today.

2019 Mar 05 11:33:43
Johann: Nyom Chanroth had to stop the work. To difficult to concentrate today. Good training anyway.

2019 Mar 05 10:20:56
Cheav Villa:  :-\ :D _/\_

2019 Mar 05 05:26:54
Johann: A meritful Uposatha those who observe it today.

2019 Mar 05 03:13:37
Johann: Sadhu, Sadhu. Rupam anicca

2019 Mar 05 01:47:58
Ieng Puthy: ករុណាបារម្ភអំពីសុខភាពរបស់ព្រះអង្គពីចំងាយ 🙏🏻ករុណាសូមប្រគេនពរ ព្រះអង្គឆាប់ជាសះស្បេីយ

2019 Mar 05 01:38:52
Ieng Puthy: ករុណាឮថា ព្រះអង្គអាពាធ ជង្គង់ តេីព្រះអង្គបានធូរស្បេីយហេីយឬនៅ?

2019 Mar 05 01:07:09
Ieng Puthy: Good morning ! 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 ករុណាថ្វាយបង្គំុ Vandami Bante

2019 Mar 04 14:41:21
Johann: Sukha Chomreoun, Nyom

2019 Mar 04 14:18:03
Moritz: Leaving now. May Bhante have a good day. _/\_

2019 Mar 04 13:45:50
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2019 Mar 04 13:19:43
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Mar 01 16:35:39
Johann: Bhante Indannano  _/\_ How was India in "war times"

2019 Feb 28 11:46:56
Moritz: And good bye again. :) _/\_

2019 Feb 28 11:46:38
Moritz: Vandami, Bhante _/\_

2019 Feb 28 05:25:27
Cheav Villa:   :D_/\_

2019 Feb 28 04:22:46
Johann: 5 o'clock morning  ^-^ (like a taxi driver) may Nyom has well earned and peaceful rest. Mudita.

2019 Feb 28 04:08:09
Moritz: Chom reap leah. I'm going to sleep. _/\_

2019 Feb 28 03:40:13
Johann: Sukha chomreoun Nyom.

2019 Feb 28 03:39:06
Moritz: Vandami, Bhante _/\_

2019 Feb 28 03:35:39
Moritz: Good morning, Cheav Villa _/\_

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Author Topic: [Q&A] Dukkha vs legitimate need  (Read 176 times)

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Offline Johann

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[Q&A] Dukkha vs legitimate need
« on: March 08, 2019, 02:16:44 PM »
Dukkha vs legitimate need

Quote from: Asked by Nyom Alex on BSE

I heard a talk by Ajahn Amaro that says that wherever I encounter dukha, it is a sign that there is a attachment involved, that I can let go of and this way free myself from the attachment.

https://youtu.be/-h_O_SuKOKE?t=2823

But this way, what prevents me from laying down and dying from hunger or thirst - if I feel hunger, it may be dukha from my attachment to food, or to survival...

What is the difference between attachment and legitimate needs?

Thanks for answering a noob question.

Here, how ever a modified, expanded answer

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Venerable memebers of the Sangha,
Ven. Fellows,

Upasak, Upasika,

Nyom Alex, and those interested,

"What is the difference between attachment and legitimate needs?"


What's a legitimate need? One, one would tolerate because having still the same incapacity, like laws are usually made, or common-society conducts agreements? Desires are endless and most cause harm, even if agreed for a particular common society and not that of Nobel Ones. Therefore better to focus on (given/giving) actions (causes) than "material" things or fruits (effects). Effects need (their) related giving into to cause certain appearing.

The Dhamma is not about "rights" but about "duties" to be fulfilled if wishing for certain aim. No right and legitimization of improper given by anybody, but cause and effect seen clear, explained what one should do and one should not do to gain long lasting freedom from suffering!

A legitimate action for a good for one self and all others, which is required - by thoughts, words or hysical deeds - is one that does neither take live, take others possession, takes away the truth, takes sensuality harmful from others around, takes away ones heed-fullness by intoxication: i.e. the precepts). That's probably not so good matched if just saying "let go" generally, and the precepts help that defilements would not have a change to cheat and argue.

At least right effort is twofold: what to nourish, force, develop and what to denourish, under-press and relinquish. So one should never let go of good: i.e. generosity is good, not taking live, taking what is not giving, signs that steal the truth... not intoxicating oneself, respect those/that worthy of respect, helping ones parents, tending to renouncing of ordinary life.

One who would let go of needed, path, good... such is a fool or didn't got it right told. So a lot of "greed" is required to gain long lasting happiness and go beyond suffering and as one knows ever sacrifice is hurtful at first place.

What then might be left as attachment, after having given up the bad and grasping the good, fine. One might just look inside in a more refined way, since dukkha would probably again arise.

As the Sublime Buddha told: it's much better to bear Dukkha then to break the precepts, let go of good.

And at least one could go just for alms: is that legitimate where you live, in the modern society and it's rules so pride on them?  That's the highest way of conduct and livelihood, to provide ones "needs" (4 paccaya) without doing any reasonable harm to anyone, aside oneself if doing such for impure aims, just to be able to cross to the other shore and/or to give others a possibility to make good and fruitful merits (to get a little bond to liberation).

Train Your Hunger (The Sea Squirt) might be a useful talk in addition here.

And what worth would it have to just let go before really free of Dukkha? "I gave up everything, yet still suffer...?", since the deep, hard root of it was not traced, not seen. It's most legitimate to seek for overcoming all Dukkha, although there might be those don't like to see one liberated while by one self caught , since it benefits all, incl. those disliking it, incl. oneself. Proper way (without violating precepts) to maintain one body (for ones safety here and later) and the entertainment of mind, livelihood for the mind, is also important, best if dwelling in Jhana 3+ or talk, deeds around Dhamma.

Another expanded teaching, to understand the different of Wisdom/real compassion and Justice is:

Wisdom over Justice , by Ven. Thanissaro Bhikkhu (2017; 17p./90kB) [PDF icon]
    Bhante Thanissaro gives here a patiently talk, in form of an essay, why skillful means are more important then to pursuit a certain right or a final objectivity and points out generosily, why so many practicing people have a hardship in regard of central worldview, so that it could be possible understood in it's details. Engaged Buddhism is against usual views and means around it not a tabu, following the Buddhas ideas about it.


...which might explain further the different of common and popular views and that of the wise and traditional.

Finally a clear approach of the sages at the Sublime Buddhas time:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

As he was sitting there, Ven. Sariputta said to him, "I trust, Dhanañjani, that you are heedful?"

"From where would we get any heedfulness, master? — when parents are to be supported, wife & children are to be supported, slaves & workers are to be supported, friend-&-companion duties are to be done for friends & companions, kinsmen-&-relative duties for kinsmen & relatives, guest duties for guests, departed-ancestor duties for departed ancestors, devata duties for devatas, king duties for the king, and this body also has to be refreshed & nourished."

"What do you think Dhanañjani? There is the case where a certain person, for the sake of his mother & father, does what is unrighteous, does what is discordant. Then, because of his unrighteous, discordant behavior, hell-wardens drag him off to hell. Would he gain anything by saying, 'I did what is unrighteous, what is discordant, for the sake of my mother & father. Don't [throw] me into hell, hell-wardens!' Or would his mother & father gain anything for him by saying, 'He did what is unrighteous, what is discordant, for our sake. Don't [throw] him into hell, hell-wardens!'?"

"No, master Sariputta. Even right while he was wailing, they'd cast him into hell."

"What do you think Dhanañjani? There is the case where a certain person, for the sake of his wife & children ... his slaves & workers ... his friends & companions ... his kinsmen & relatives ... his guests ... his departed ancestors ... the devatas ... the king, does what is unrighteous, does what is discordant. Then, because of his unrighteous, discordant behavior, hell-wardens drag him off to hell. Would he gain anything by saying, 'I did what is unrighteous, what is discordant, for the sake of the king. Don't [throw] me into hell, hell-wardens!' Or would the king gain anything for him by saying, 'He did what is unrighteous, what is discordant, for our sake. Don't [throw] him into hell, hell-wardens!'?"

"No, master Sariputta. Even right while he was wailing, they'd cast him into hell."

"What do you think Dhanañjani? There is the case where a certain person, for the sake of refreshing & nourishing his body, does what is unrighteous, does what is discordant. Then, because of his unrighteous, discordant behavior, hell-wardens drag him off to hell. Would he gain anything by saying, 'I did what is unrighteous, what is discordant, for the sake of refreshing & nourishing my body. Don't [throw] me into hell, hell-wardens!' Or would others gain anything for him by saying, 'He did what is unrighteous, what is discordant, for the sake of refreshing & nourishing his body. Don't [throw] him into hell, hell-wardens!'?"

"No, master Sariputta. Even right while he was wailing, they'd cast him into hell."

"Now, what do you think, Dhanañjani? Which is the better: one who, for the sake of his mother & father, would do what is unrighteous, what is discordant; or one who, for the sake of his mother & father, would do what is righteous, what is concordant?

"Master Sariputta, the one who, for the sake of his mother & father, would do what is unrighteous, what is discordant, is not the better one. The one who, for the sake of his mother & father, would do what is righteous, what is concordant would be the better one there. Righteous behavior, concordant behavior, is better than unrighteous behavior, discordant behavior.[2]

"Dhanañjani, there are other activities — reasonable, righteous — by which one can support one's mother & father, and at the same time both not do evil and practice the practice of merit.

"What do you think, Dhanañjani: Which is the better: one who, for the sake of his wife & children ... his slaves & workers ... his friends & companions ... his kinsmen & relatives ... his guests ... his departed ancestors ... the devatas ... the king ... refreshing & nourishing his body, would do what is unrighteous, what is discordant; or one who, for the sake of refreshing & nourishing his body, would do what is righteous, what is concordant?

"Master Sariputta, the one who, for the sake of refreshing & nourishing his body, would do what is unrighteous, what is discordant, is not the better one. The one who, for the sake of refreshing & nourishing his body, would do what is righteous, what is concordant would be the better one there. Righteous behavior, concordant behavior, is better than unrighteous behavior, discordant behavior.[3]

 "Dhanañjani, there are other activities — reasonable, righteous — by which one can refresh & nourish one's body, and at the same time both not do evil and practice the practice of merit."

Then Dhanañjani the brahman, delighting & rejoicing in Ven. Sariputta's words, got up from his seat and left.

Mudita

Quote from: Alex to the sorter talk
Thanks a lot! I was very happy to read this talk - very inspiring and clarifying things! And also directly answers the question I asked!
« Last Edit: March 08, 2019, 02:24:30 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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