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Talkbox

2019 Dec 05 09:56:53
Johann: sokh chomreoun, nyom

2019 Dec 05 09:56:09
Moritz: Taking leave. May Bhante dwell in good health _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Dec 05 09:46:00
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Dec 05 09:14:32
Cheav Villa:  :) _/\_

2019 Dec 05 08:09:04
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2019 Dec 04 20:16:08
saddhamma:  _/\_Bhante Johann. Wishing you speedy recovery.

2019 Dec 04 07:35:06
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Dec 04 06:36:37
Moritz: Chom reap leah _/\_

2019 Dec 04 06:32:33
Johann: Sadhu

2019 Dec 04 06:31:50
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2019 Dec 04 06:31:50
Moritz: May all spend a good Uposatha _/\_

2019 Dec 04 06:31:42
Khemakumara: May all have a path- and fruiful Uposatha

2019 Dec 04 06:31:34
Moritz: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Dec 04 06:31:28
Moritz: Vandami Bhante Khemakumara _/\_

2019 Dec 04 06:08:13
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Dec 04 01:50:53
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2019 Dec 04 01:15:40
Moritz: Bong Ebo _/\_

2019 Dec 01 13:29:37
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 30 21:38:39
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2019 Nov 30 21:30:49
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2019 Nov 30 19:04:39
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2019 Nov 30 17:34:10
Khemakumara: Nyom

2019 Nov 30 16:43:46
Johann: Bhante Ariyadhammika

2019 Nov 30 06:46:37
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante

2019 Nov 29 20:24:07
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 29 18:59:11
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Sadhu Sadhu

2019 Nov 29 16:01:17
Johann: Ratana Sutta , and one more public.

2019 Nov 29 14:25:08
Cheav Villa:   _/\_ Yes, eveyone here got flu and almost everywhere..  :-\ :) _/\_

2019 Nov 29 14:19:23
Moritz: Sadhu _/\_ Yes, sickness very much present here as well.  :-\  :)

2019 Nov 29 14:18:08
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Nov 29 14:12:37
Johann: (May all and everyone get soon/quick free fom sickness) Sadhu

2019 Nov 29 14:07:13
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2019 Nov 29 14:05:22
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2019 Nov 29 12:05:41
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2019 Nov 29 11:51:15
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2019 Nov 28 20:08:22
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2019 Nov 28 13:11:37
Johann: Bhante

2019 Nov 28 12:52:24
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante

2019 Nov 27 23:19:47
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2019 Nov 27 22:59:18
Khemakumara: Nyom

2019 Nov 27 10:20:04
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2019 Nov 27 10:16:58
Khemakumara: May it be a path -and fruitful after-the-Newmoon-uposatha-day

2019 Nov 26 20:55:22
Johann: Meister Moritz

2019 Nov 26 19:35:55
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Nov 26 11:50:14
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2019 Nov 26 10:53:53
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2019 Nov 26 09:24:16
Johann: A blessed and united Newmoon uposatha all touchable and taking on it

2019 Nov 26 08:53:07
Cheav Villa:  :) _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 26 00:07:54
Johann: Moi, moi, Nyom. Ma dom ma chumheang (Slowly, slowly... step by step) much joy in all good virtuous undertakings.

2019 Nov 25 23:46:46
Moritz: Chom reap leah _/\_ (many things to do...)

2019 Nov 25 23:28:18
Johann: Meister Moritz

2019 Nov 25 23:04:36
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 24 22:55:28
Johann: Nyom

2019 Nov 24 22:51:00
saddhamma: Bhante Johann _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 24 16:27:57
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 24 16:01:25
Johann:  _/\_ Bhante Ariyadhammika

2019 Nov 24 13:04:02
Johann: May one not feel disturbed while my person might share merits in many different topics, as just possibility. Anumodana

2019 Nov 22 20:01:23
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Master Moritz _/\_

2019 Nov 22 19:49:34
Johann: talkbox isn't good for more then Abhivadana, hello... wishes, metta spreading, similar.

2019 Nov 22 19:47:27
Johann: Visitor, as well as Nyom Vivek, can write in topics, maybe start even one. It's, the issue, isn't understandable.

2019 Nov 22 19:40:12
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2019 Nov 22 19:38:57
Visitor: 1st email id at the link is deleted

2019 Nov 22 19:33:19
Visitor: Wow! Mr. Mortiz ,so you are working as an Engineer. Might be algorithm over here can be of some use. It's very fast for a server to handle  ;-)  _/\_ buddhaya. https://github.com/Anonymousingly/URA

2019 Nov 22 18:21:55
Moritz: Chom reap leah _/\_ Trying to see how to set up new server. :) Would try to start topic about it soon, possibly taking some days still; now soon usual weekend nightshift work. _/\_

2019 Nov 22 18:18:46
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2019 Nov 22 18:05:26
Johann: Nyom Moritz, Villa

2019 Nov 22 17:27:04
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Nov 22 06:39:52
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2019 Nov 22 06:39:22
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Nov 22 00:13:18
Vivek: Good Night All,Be happy, meditate in dreams too....from a former wanderer of other sects.

2019 Nov 21 23:40:42
Johann: Nyom Vivek

2019 Nov 21 21:59:49
Visitor: Oh! It worked. Vandami All.

2019 Nov 21 21:58:35
Visitor: Shout, shout, wow, wow,  :o :o *gift* *thumb*

2019 Nov 20 15:54:51
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 20 15:27:02
Johann: Nyom Villa

2019 Nov 20 14:18:59
Johann: A blessed Sila-day today, and may many take to possibility for services toward the tripple Gems while observing Silas.

2019 Nov 20 05:35:14
saddhamma: Avuso Moritz _/\_

2019 Nov 19 21:17:27
Cheav Villa:  :) _/\_

2019 Nov 19 19:13:02
Moritz: Upasaka Sadhamma _/\_

2019 Nov 19 19:12:54
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2019 Nov 19 14:33:28
Johann: Ayasma Moritz

2019 Nov 19 14:18:50
Moritz: Mr. Vivek _/\_

2019 Nov 19 14:03:03
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 19 13:46:22
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2019 Nov 19 07:36:38
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 19 05:28:18
Johann: Being caught in relating, may they find the trace toward Unbond with ease and follow it eager for soon release.

2019 Nov 19 05:25:03
Johann: A meritful, joyful in Dhamma, Sila day today, those undertaking it today.

2019 Nov 18 05:41:01
Moritz: Chom reap leah, for now _/\_ May Bhante have a pleasent day. _/\_

2019 Nov 18 05:22:11
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2019 Nov 18 05:20:39
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Nov 16 21:59:56
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 16 20:43:25
Johann: Ayasma Moritz

2019 Nov 14 22:46:22
Johann: Atma leaves the paranimmita-vasavatti deva and nimmanarati deva now to find good birth by themself, no more power left.

2019 Nov 14 22:00:48
Cheav Villa: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 14 21:39:00
Johann: Duties and Silas are words of same meaning, denoting "proper conduct and giving in ones relations where ne desires to have a good and safe stand"

2019 Nov 14 21:25:51
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 14 21:21:02
Johann: May all have good rest at the end of day, done ones duties or even a blessed done merits after that as well. My person is now off of energy and good to rest as well.

2019 Nov 14 13:43:11
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 14 10:35:51
Johann: Respecting the Devas one gains their respect and protection.

2019 Nov 14 10:34:40
Johann: Bhante. (Meawmane is a spirit from a Server in Bangkok)

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Author Topic: [Q&A] Goal of liberation in yoga/meditation - Isn't it Boring?  (Read 739 times)

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Offline Johann

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[Q&A] Goal of liberation in yoga/meditation - Isn't it Boring?

Quote from: Nyom sundar asked on BSE
Goal of liberation in yoga/meditation - Isn't it Boring?

I see that the goal of yoga/meditation is liberation from the karma and from the birth/death cycle. People say that it is the ultimate happiness forever. But wouldn't that be boring and monotonous if there is happiness forever?

Venerable members of the Sangha,
walking in front Fellows in leading the holly life.

  _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

Venerable fellows,

In Respect of the Triple Gems, Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, in Respect of the Elders of the community  _/\_ , my person to share a question and investigate it. Please, may all knowledgeable Venerables and Dhammika, out of compassion, correct my person, if something is not correct and fill also graps, if something is missing.

Valued Upasaka, Upasika, Aramika(inis),
dear Readers and Visitors,

 *sgift*

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa    -

Householder sundar, interested,

this question is a very advanced one and the seek after lastig satisfying happiness, if not informed, binds so hard to suffering, but if seen the escape and the posibility trough human effort, turns one to refined, longer lasting and release, where such as boredom can not reach.

The carpenter Pañcakanga  once asked the Buddha about the kunds of feelings who left him open a choice of the many kinds.

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

Ananda, that some wanderers of other persuasions might say, 'Gotama the contemplative speaks of the cessation of perception & feeling and yet describes it as pleasure. What is this? How can this be?' When they say that, they are to be told, 'It's not the case, friends, that the Blessed One describes only pleasant feeling as included under pleasure. Wherever pleasure is found, in whatever terms, the Blessed One describes it as pleasure.'”

It is right if one says, that happiness gained by Yoga (meaning "taking on the whole yoke", work) meditation alone could not be lasting satisfying, is no refuge, never under ones controll, nor really real, since it is always conditioned and conditioned phenomenas are actually not lasting. What ever happiness to gain requires work, sacrifices, pain, even when attained, to maintain it further. Yet ordinary pleasure, based on the five senses requires a lot of pain for very short pleasure, needed even as livelihood, thought on raw food, to be able to walk on and do not break apart. This raw food of sensuality does not only require on sacrifices but harm other and is mostly not voluntary given and so leads to more conflicts.

Contentment with low kind of happiness is much more subject to boredom in shorter and more harmful ways for oneself and others, so seek after refined is needed, and contentment here it enemy to find better or even release, lasting satisfation.

If one is in a palace, enjoys what ever senspleasure is avaliable, proper similies are needed so that one could find needed faith:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

“...Even so but to a still greater degree, Aggivessana, is Prince Jayasena hemmed in, blocked, obstructed, enveloped by this mass of ignorance. Indeed, that Prince Jayasena, living as he does in the midst of sense-pleasures, enjoying sense-pleasures, being consumed by thoughts of sense-pleasures, eager in the search for sense-pleasures, should know or see or attain or realize that which can be known… seen… attained… realized by renunciation — such a situation does not exist. Had these two similes occurred to you, Aggivessana, for Prince Jayasena, Prince Jayasena naturally would have acted in the manner of one having trust in you.”
The Discourse on the 'Tamed Stage '

If one maintains ones needed joy by meditation, it would not harm anybody, neither oneself (think on all the side-effects of sensepleasures on health and freedom lose by addictions), nor others (think that all sensepleasure harms endless beings and lives till foods for senses can be consumed). Jet of cource, since thist and greed after pleasure is not stilled, even if no more after raw sense pleasures, even when thinking on highest sensual pleasures, one gets bored with it, has no controll of it and the maintaining becomes burdensome and doubt, whether there is a better arises again: this very craving. Gaining every day ones beloved food, one gets sick of it, since the mind, not knowing release, searches always for more and anew. The refined food gained by the work in yoga-meditation, how ever, not only that it is always different and much more refined, has a lot of levels of fineness, satisfies more lasting, not only because it does not harm others and would thereby fast taken away and fought by others again.

Yet nevertheless this satifaction would break apart, so those work, yoga, has to be understood in two ways, one as a good livelihood, to gain a pleasent dwelling, one to investigate all kinds of pleasures and the need for gain, that all those states are not lasting, subject of aging, sickness and death.

Once somebody sees and understands that what ever state and retined happiness, existing, would nevertheless of no lastig satisfacion, seeing the disadvantages even in heavenly states of high conncentration, this is the point where the Buddha and Arahats would teach the Sublime Dhamma of the Noble Ones, the Four Noble Truth . to those tending to renouncing the meaningless seek after real happiness in the worlds.

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

"Bhikkhus, it is through not realizing, through not penetrating the Four Noble Truths that this long course of birth and death has been passed through and undergone by me as well as by you. What are these four? They are the noble truth of dukkha ; the noble truth of the origin of dukkha ; the noble truth of the cessation of dukkha ; and the noble truth of the way to the cessation of dukkha . But now, bhikkhus, that these have been realized and penetrated, cut off is the craving for existence, destroyed is that which leads to renewed becoming, and there is no fresh becoming."

Having listened with proper attention, attantion of what gives birth within, once this is penetrated, the cause clear seen, and by the right approach it's cause, not understanding, by seeing by one self, uprooted, one breaks into the deathless sphere, the unconditioned, having done the work, and at this point, no more work is needed, all done and lasting satisfaction attained. No more birth, aging, sickness and death, noting further for this world and by breaking up of the body, with death, finaly Nibbana has been gained.

Till then, after attaining the deathless, here and now, while still alive, one would spend much time in this Jhanas, states of concentration, as pleasant livelihood, next to live from alms to maintain body and give others a possibility for great merits.

That is why the follower of the Buddha chant daily: "N'atthi santi param sukham" 'No peace is higher as the heal of Beyond/Nibbana'

The Yoke of the Eightfold paths mastering is not taken on for further wandering on, but by seeing that what ever conditioned states can not be lasting satisfied, are pointless.

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

Yoga Sutta: Yokes

Joined with the yoke of sensuality
    & the yoke of becoming,
joined with the yoke of views,
    surrounded by ignorance,
beings go to the wandering-on,
    heading to birth
        & death.
But those who comprehend sensuality
    & the yoke of becoming — entirely —
who have thrown off the yoke of views
    and are dispassionate
    toward ignorance,
disjoined from all yokes:
they — their yokes overcome —
        are sages
        indeed.

Right labor makes free!

Possible good to remark, that the path is not gained by concentration, but 'simply' by hearing the good Dhamma and proper attention, as for right concentration, fruit and release, the aim, once right view is gained, virtue purified, there is no more need of will required, and will be effected by the previous given causes:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

"For a person endowed with virtue, consummate in virtue, there is no need for an act of will, 'May freedom from remorse arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that freedom from remorse arises in a person endowed with virtue, consummate in virtue.

"For a person free from remorse, there is no need for an act of will, 'May joy arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that joy arises in a person free from remorse... ...rapturous... ...serene in body... ...experiencing pleasure... ...whose mind is concentrated... ...who knows & sees things as they actually are... ...who feels disenchantment... ...

..."For a dispassionate person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I realize the knowledge & vision of release.' It is in the nature of things that a dispassionate person realizes the knowledge & vision of release.

"In this way, dispassion has knowledge & vision of release as its purpose, knowledge & vision of release as its reward.... ...Skillful virtues have freedom from remorse as their purpose, freedom from remorse as their reward.

"In this way, mental qualities lead on to mental qualities, mental qualities bring mental qualities to their consummation, for the sake of going from the near to the Further Shore."

Mudita & Anumodana
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Re: [Q&A] Goal of liberation in yoga/meditation - Isn't it Boring?
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2019, 02:14:19 PM »

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

from Maha Saropama Sutta: The Longer Heartwood-simile Discourse:

... "Furthermore, there is the case where a certain son of good family, out of conviction, goes forth from the home life into homelessness, [thinking,] 'I am beset by birth, by aging-&-death, by sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs, beset by stress, overcome with stress. Perhaps the end of this entire mass of stress might be discerned!' Having thus gone forth, he encounters gain, offerings, & fame. He is not gratified with that gain, offerings, & fame, his resolve not fulfilled. He is not intoxicated with that gain, offerings, & fame, not heedless about it, and does not fall into heedlessness. Being heedful, he achieves consummation in virtue. He is gratified with that consummation in virtue, but his resolve is not fulfilled. Because of that consummation in virtue he does not exalt himself or disparage others. He is not intoxicated with that consummation in virtue, not heedless about it, and does not fall into heedlessness. Being heedful, he achieves consummation in concentration. He is gratified with that consummation in concentration, but his resolve is not fulfilled. He is not intoxicated with that consummation in concentration, not heedless about it, and does not fall into heedlessness. Being heedful, he achieves knowledge & vision. He is gratified with that knowledge & vision, but his resolve is not fulfilled. Because of that knowledge & vision he does not exalt himself or disparage others. He is not intoxicated with that knowledge & vision, not heedless about it, and does not fall into heedlessness. Being heedful, he achieves a non-occasional liberation. And it is impossible, monks, there is no opportunity, for that monk to fall from that non-occasional release. [1]

"Just as if a man in need of heartwood, seeking heartwood, wandering in search of heartwood, cutting away just the heartwood of a great standing tree possessed of heartwood, were to go off carrying it, knowing, 'heartwood.' A man with good eyesight, seeing him, would say, 'Ah, how this good man did know heartwood, did know sapwood, did know inner bark, did know outer bark, did know twigs & leaves! That's why he, in need of heartwood, seeking heartwood, wandering in search of heartwood, cutting away just the heartwood of a great standing tree possessed of heartwood, were to go off carrying it, knowing, "heartwood." Whatever heartwood-business he had with heartwood, his purpose will be served.'

"In the same way, monks, there is the case where a certain son of good family, out of conviction, goes forth from the home life into homelessness, [thinking,] 'I am beset by birth, by aging-&-death, by sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs, beset by stress, overcome with stress. Perhaps the end of this entire mass of stress might be discerned!' Having thus gone forth, he encounters gain, offerings, & fame. He is not gratified with that gain, offerings, & fame, his resolve not fulfilled. He is not intoxicated with that gain, offerings, & fame, not heedless about it, and does not fall into heedlessness. Being heedful, he achieves consummation in virtue. He is gratified with that consummation in virtue, but his resolve is not fulfilled. Because of that consummation in virtue he does not exalt himself or disparage others. He is not intoxicated with that consummation in virtue, not heedless about it, and does not fall into heedlessness. Being heedful, he achieves consummation in concentration. He is gratified with that consummation in concentration, but his resolve is not fulfilled. Because of that consummation in concentration he does not exalt himself or disparage others. He is not intoxicated with that consummation in concentration, not heedless about it, and does not fall into heedlessness. Being heedful, he achieves knowledge & vision. He is gratified with that knowledge & vision, but his resolve is not fulfilled. Because of that knowledge & vision he does not exalt himself or disparage others. He is not intoxicated with that knowledge & vision, not heedless about it, and does not fall into heedlessness. Being heedful, he achieves a non-occasional liberation. And it is impossible, monks, there is no opportunity, for that monk to fall from that non-occasional release.

"Monks, this holy life doesn't have as its reward gain, offerings, & fame, doesn't have as its reward consummation of virtue, doesn't have as its reward consummation of concentration, doesn't have as its reward knowledge & vision, but the unprovoked [2]awareness-release: That is the purpose of this holy life, that is its heartwood, that its final end."
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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