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Talkbox

2019 Nov 16 21:59:56
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 16 20:43:25
Johann: Ayasma Moritz

2019 Nov 14 22:46:22
Johann: Atma leaves the paranimmita-vasavatti deva and nimmanarati deva now to find good birth by themself, no more power left.

2019 Nov 14 22:00:48
Cheav Villa: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 14 21:39:00
Johann: Duties and Silas are words of same meaning, denoting "proper conduct and giving in ones relations where ne desires to have a good and safe stand"

2019 Nov 14 21:25:51
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 14 21:21:02
Johann: May all have good rest at the end of day, done ones duties or even a blessed done merits after that as well. My person is now off of energy and good to rest as well.

2019 Nov 14 13:43:11
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 14 10:35:51
Johann: Respecting the Devas one gains their respect and protection.

2019 Nov 14 10:34:40
Johann: Bhante. (Meawmane is a spirit from a Server in Bangkok)

2019 Nov 14 10:28:52
Khemakumara: Nyom Meawmane

2019 Nov 14 10:27:53
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante

2019 Nov 13 20:44:51
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 13 20:28:20
Johann: Bhante  _/\_ Nyom, Nyom

2019 Nov 13 13:19:14
Cheav Villa: Kana Bhante :) _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 13 11:54:18
Johann: Mahā (written), not moha (following civil transliteration of khmer, very unuseful, better following pali transliteration) "Deluded Wisdom Monastery" could be understood while "Great Wisdom Monastery"  :)

2019 Nov 13 10:22:14
Johann: mudita

2019 Nov 13 09:56:41
Cheav Villa: Kana now at Panha Moha Viheara, waiting for  Bhikkuni

2019 Nov 13 09:47:10
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 12 08:01:41
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 12 05:35:02
Khemakumara:  Sīlena nibbutiṁ yanti. Through virtue they go to Unbinding. May it be a fruit-and pathful Uposatha day.

2019 Nov 11 16:41:52
Varado: Happily indeed we live, we, for whom there is [nowhere] anything at all. We will feed on rapture like the Ābhassarā devas. Dh.v.200.

2019 Nov 11 11:40:45
Johann: Ven. Sirs  _/\_ (Kana trust that leave for some rest will not reduce Bhantes releasing joy here)

2019 Nov 11 11:13:48
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 11 11:06:19
Johann: May it be an auspicious end of the Vassa of the Noble ones, a deep Anapanasati day today, for all conducting the full moon uposatha today.

2019 Nov 11 06:00:43
Johann: " Happy/peaceful the area/custom of the Arahats, craving and wandering on having layed aside"?

2019 Nov 11 03:22:11
Johann: Of which would mean what, Lok Ta, if not wishing to use google or not given means?

2019 Nov 10 23:54:03
Varado: Sukhino vata arahanto taṇhā tesaṃ na vijjati _/\_

2019 Nov 10 19:51:07
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Ariyadhammika

2019 Nov 10 17:54:44
Johann: ភនតេ វ៉ាលិ

2019 Nov 10 14:42:47
Johann: Lok Ta  _/\_

2019 Nov 09 16:31:12
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  :) _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 09 16:25:14
Johann: May Nyom and all have a safe travel

2019 Nov 09 16:03:41
Cheav Villa: Kana and kids Plan to go to Aural tomorrow, will leave Phnom Penh at 5am  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 09 15:41:39
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 09 15:37:40
Johann: Bhante Ariyadhammica, Nyom Villa

2019 Nov 09 15:35:16
Johann: Sadhu

2019 Nov 09 14:56:15
Varado: Homage to the Noble Sangha _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 09 14:55:15
Varado: Blessed is the arising of Buddhas. Blessed is the explaining of the true teaching. Blessed is concord in the community of bhikkhus. Of those in concord, blessed is their practice of austerity.

2019 Nov 09 14:53:06
Johann: Ven Grandfather, Nyom Annaleana,

2019 Nov 09 01:57:47
Moritz: Vandami, Bhante Varado _/\_

2019 Nov 09 01:43:05
Varado: Pūjā ca pūjanīyānaṃ

2019 Nov 09 00:44:14
Johann: Worthy those on path or reached the aim

2019 Nov 08 22:36:29
Varado: Homage to those elder bhikkhus of long-standing who have long gone forth, the fathers and leaders of the Sangha. _/\_

2019 Nov 08 20:16:23
Johann: May the Venerables allow my persons leave, running out of battery.  _/\_

2019 Nov 08 20:09:51
Johann: Sadhu, Sadhu!

2019 Nov 08 20:09:14
Varado: Homage to Good Friends. For this is the entire holy life. _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 08 20:07:04
Varado: Homage to the Good Friends. For this is the entire holy life. _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 08 19:29:09
Varado: Thanks for summary. I send article on milk. Anything else?

2019 Nov 08 18:53:24
Varado: Also greed, hatred, and delusion. Tīni akusalamūlāni: lobho akusalamūlaṃ doso akusalamūlaṃ moho akusalamūlaṃ (D.3.214).

2019 Nov 08 18:36:34
Johann: So does it, so does it, for Bhikkhus, layman, laywoman as well. And what is the root of stinginess? Ingratitude (wrong view).

2019 Nov 08 18:30:56
Varado: Possessing five qualities, a bhikkhuni is deposited in hell as if brought there. What five? She is miserly with dwellings, families, gains, praise, and the Dhamma (A.3.139). Pañcahi bhikkhave dhammehi samannāgatā bhikkhunī yathābhataṃ nikkhittā evaṃ niraye: katamehi pañcahi: Āvāsamaccha

2019 Nov 08 18:23:39
Varado: Macchariya for lodgings, maybe?

2019 Nov 08 18:01:17
Johann: Kana saw that Bhikkhunis has even a rule in regard of macchariya, for Vineyya in their Vinaya.

2019 Nov 08 17:58:14
Johann: So does it dear Ven. Grandfather, so does it. Amacchariya is the domain of the Noble Ones, beginning by the stream to the complete of stinginess's root.

2019 Nov 08 17:51:33
Varado: Having eliminated the stain of stinginess together with its origin, they are beyond criticism.

2019 Nov 08 17:35:15
Johann: ...and "Vineyya maccheramalaṁ samūlaṁ aninditā"

2019 Nov 08 17:29:21
Johann: These Devas and Brahmas...  :) mudita

2019 Nov 08 16:53:41
Varado: May the Buddha bless you. May the Dhamma shine on you. May Wat Ayum be a refuge to many. For any possible help with questions, please email. My pleasure.

2019 Nov 08 13:55:57
Johann: ..."This shows that the Buddha would not be troubled by those who become angry and resentful, but by those who are strongly opinionated and who relinquish their views reluctantly...."

2019 Nov 08 09:27:01
Johann: Ven. Bhantes

2019 Nov 08 09:23:11
Khemakumara:   _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Ariyadhammika

2019 Nov 08 06:26:12
Johann: It was four days after closing that decreased in last instance

2019 Nov 08 06:15:13
Moritz: The bot traffic is not decreasing.

2019 Nov 08 06:15:10
Johann: Ayasma Moritz

2019 Nov 08 06:14:53
Moritz: (was logged in long time before, but not at PC)

2019 Nov 08 06:14:52
Johann: Ayasama Moritz

2019 Nov 08 06:14:06
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 08 02:08:55
Moritz: Sadhu _/\_ May Bhante bear and overcome all sickness well _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 08 02:05:42
Khemakumara: Khantı paramaṁ tapo tītikkhā. Patient forbearance is the highest austerity

2019 Nov 08 02:01:46
Khemakumara: lack of energy because of sickness of the body (boils) Nyom Moritz

2019 Nov 08 01:53:48
Khemakumara: Meister Moritz

2019 Nov 08 01:52:12
Moritz: Hoping Bhante is well _/\_

2019 Nov 08 01:51:55
Moritz: Vandami Bhante (Khemakumara) _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 07 20:02:22
Johann: enery, battery saysfinish for now... may there be food for liberation be found and got touched by many independently.

2019 Nov 07 20:00:16
Johann: Every being, even without capacity to gain higher, is worthy of metta, worthy to be not harmed in existance, worthy to help in times of needing the four paccayas, Ven. Grandfather.

2019 Nov 07 19:37:39
Visitor: Let us treat those with Buddhanature with the respect appropriate to future Buddhas.

2019 Nov 07 19:01:03
Johann: Maybe an inspirig topic on the matter How should I express Mudita or Joy for all beings? for all having access (upanissaya).

2019 Nov 07 18:56:59
Johann: Sadhu, Sadhu. That's how mudita is good understood in relation with "Buddhanature"

2019 Nov 07 18:54:52
Visitor: Homage to all those with Buddhanature. _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 07 18:53:59
Visitor:  Homage to all the Buddhas.  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 07 18:28:47
Johann: Dear lok ta Visitor

2019 Nov 07 17:29:02
Cheav Villa:  _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 07 17:24:12
Johann: Don't worry either, yet perfect if visiting the Nuns. Mudita

2019 Nov 07 17:21:15
Cheav Villa: About the medicin called loṇasociraka, Kana will take time to go to Visit Wat Panha to ask her for detail  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 07 17:21:05
Johann: Cetana counts, the own one, Nyom.

2019 Nov 07 17:18:42
Johann: May Nyom not worry to much about it. My person guesses Nyom Chanroth might have lot of joy in the idea of planting. While Cacaco is fine, yet not a need or request, it's something that can be gained in shops.

2019 Nov 07 17:09:57
Cheav Villa: Kana now seen without Sila… someone could not tell the truth 

2019 Nov 07 17:01:13
Cheav Villa: Kana ordered 5kg via web, phoned them 2days ago but still no delivery cause of no confirmation since he still abroad now

2019 Nov 07 16:49:17
Cheav Villa: But the Cacao company in Mondolkiri doesnt allowed, they sale Cacao beans.

2019 Nov 07 16:47:38
Cheav Villa: Kana Bhante  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ as he informed to bring only Cacao fruits for Bhante could make and use of medecine againts Malaria

2019 Nov 07 16:20:48
Johann: Indeed releasing investigation cause hunger and no food can be expected at the end as well.

2019 Nov 07 16:18:35
Johann: When homeless effort is requested, no joy in sacrificing into it. Oh this monks... of modern world.  :)

2019 Nov 07 16:16:59
Johann: Oh this monks  :) When household effort can be made for favor and house, all engaged...

2019 Nov 07 14:17:18
Johann: Āyasmā Moritz (Master, a usual address for skilled lay people in the Tipitaka)

2019 Nov 06 17:27:06
Cheav Villa: Master Moritz _/\_

2019 Nov 06 17:23:52
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2019 Nov 06 17:23:46
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Nov 06 00:13:12
Vithou:  _/\_

2019 Nov 05 22:47:19
Moritz: Hello Visitor! _/\_

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Author Topic: [Q&A] Goal of liberation in yoga/meditation - Isn't it Boring?  (Read 719 times)

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Offline Johann

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[Q&A] Goal of liberation in yoga/meditation - Isn't it Boring?

Quote from: Nyom sundar asked on BSE
Goal of liberation in yoga/meditation - Isn't it Boring?

I see that the goal of yoga/meditation is liberation from the karma and from the birth/death cycle. People say that it is the ultimate happiness forever. But wouldn't that be boring and monotonous if there is happiness forever?

Venerable members of the Sangha,
walking in front Fellows in leading the holly life.

  _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

Venerable fellows,

In Respect of the Triple Gems, Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, in Respect of the Elders of the community  _/\_ , my person to share a question and investigate it. Please, may all knowledgeable Venerables and Dhammika, out of compassion, correct my person, if something is not correct and fill also graps, if something is missing.

Valued Upasaka, Upasika, Aramika(inis),
dear Readers and Visitors,

 *sgift*

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa    -

Householder sundar, interested,

this question is a very advanced one and the seek after lastig satisfying happiness, if not informed, binds so hard to suffering, but if seen the escape and the posibility trough human effort, turns one to refined, longer lasting and release, where such as boredom can not reach.

The carpenter Pañcakanga  once asked the Buddha about the kunds of feelings who left him open a choice of the many kinds.

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

Ananda, that some wanderers of other persuasions might say, 'Gotama the contemplative speaks of the cessation of perception & feeling and yet describes it as pleasure. What is this? How can this be?' When they say that, they are to be told, 'It's not the case, friends, that the Blessed One describes only pleasant feeling as included under pleasure. Wherever pleasure is found, in whatever terms, the Blessed One describes it as pleasure.'”

It is right if one says, that happiness gained by Yoga (meaning "taking on the whole yoke", work) meditation alone could not be lasting satisfying, is no refuge, never under ones controll, nor really real, since it is always conditioned and conditioned phenomenas are actually not lasting. What ever happiness to gain requires work, sacrifices, pain, even when attained, to maintain it further. Yet ordinary pleasure, based on the five senses requires a lot of pain for very short pleasure, needed even as livelihood, thought on raw food, to be able to walk on and do not break apart. This raw food of sensuality does not only require on sacrifices but harm other and is mostly not voluntary given and so leads to more conflicts.

Contentment with low kind of happiness is much more subject to boredom in shorter and more harmful ways for oneself and others, so seek after refined is needed, and contentment here it enemy to find better or even release, lasting satisfation.

If one is in a palace, enjoys what ever senspleasure is avaliable, proper similies are needed so that one could find needed faith:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

“...Even so but to a still greater degree, Aggivessana, is Prince Jayasena hemmed in, blocked, obstructed, enveloped by this mass of ignorance. Indeed, that Prince Jayasena, living as he does in the midst of sense-pleasures, enjoying sense-pleasures, being consumed by thoughts of sense-pleasures, eager in the search for sense-pleasures, should know or see or attain or realize that which can be known… seen… attained… realized by renunciation — such a situation does not exist. Had these two similes occurred to you, Aggivessana, for Prince Jayasena, Prince Jayasena naturally would have acted in the manner of one having trust in you.”
The Discourse on the 'Tamed Stage '

If one maintains ones needed joy by meditation, it would not harm anybody, neither oneself (think on all the side-effects of sensepleasures on health and freedom lose by addictions), nor others (think that all sensepleasure harms endless beings and lives till foods for senses can be consumed). Jet of cource, since thist and greed after pleasure is not stilled, even if no more after raw sense pleasures, even when thinking on highest sensual pleasures, one gets bored with it, has no controll of it and the maintaining becomes burdensome and doubt, whether there is a better arises again: this very craving. Gaining every day ones beloved food, one gets sick of it, since the mind, not knowing release, searches always for more and anew. The refined food gained by the work in yoga-meditation, how ever, not only that it is always different and much more refined, has a lot of levels of fineness, satisfies more lasting, not only because it does not harm others and would thereby fast taken away and fought by others again.

Yet nevertheless this satifaction would break apart, so those work, yoga, has to be understood in two ways, one as a good livelihood, to gain a pleasent dwelling, one to investigate all kinds of pleasures and the need for gain, that all those states are not lasting, subject of aging, sickness and death.

Once somebody sees and understands that what ever state and retined happiness, existing, would nevertheless of no lastig satisfacion, seeing the disadvantages even in heavenly states of high conncentration, this is the point where the Buddha and Arahats would teach the Sublime Dhamma of the Noble Ones, the Four Noble Truth . to those tending to renouncing the meaningless seek after real happiness in the worlds.

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

"Bhikkhus, it is through not realizing, through not penetrating the Four Noble Truths that this long course of birth and death has been passed through and undergone by me as well as by you. What are these four? They are the noble truth of dukkha ; the noble truth of the origin of dukkha ; the noble truth of the cessation of dukkha ; and the noble truth of the way to the cessation of dukkha . But now, bhikkhus, that these have been realized and penetrated, cut off is the craving for existence, destroyed is that which leads to renewed becoming, and there is no fresh becoming."

Having listened with proper attention, attantion of what gives birth within, once this is penetrated, the cause clear seen, and by the right approach it's cause, not understanding, by seeing by one self, uprooted, one breaks into the deathless sphere, the unconditioned, having done the work, and at this point, no more work is needed, all done and lasting satisfaction attained. No more birth, aging, sickness and death, noting further for this world and by breaking up of the body, with death, finaly Nibbana has been gained.

Till then, after attaining the deathless, here and now, while still alive, one would spend much time in this Jhanas, states of concentration, as pleasant livelihood, next to live from alms to maintain body and give others a possibility for great merits.

That is why the follower of the Buddha chant daily: "N'atthi santi param sukham" 'No peace is higher as the heal of Beyond/Nibbana'

The Yoke of the Eightfold paths mastering is not taken on for further wandering on, but by seeing that what ever conditioned states can not be lasting satisfied, are pointless.

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

Yoga Sutta: Yokes

Joined with the yoke of sensuality
    & the yoke of becoming,
joined with the yoke of views,
    surrounded by ignorance,
beings go to the wandering-on,
    heading to birth
        & death.
But those who comprehend sensuality
    & the yoke of becoming — entirely —
who have thrown off the yoke of views
    and are dispassionate
    toward ignorance,
disjoined from all yokes:
they — their yokes overcome —
        are sages
        indeed.

Right labor makes free!

Possible good to remark, that the path is not gained by concentration, but 'simply' by hearing the good Dhamma and proper attention, as for right concentration, fruit and release, the aim, once right view is gained, virtue purified, there is no more need of will required, and will be effected by the previous given causes:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

"For a person endowed with virtue, consummate in virtue, there is no need for an act of will, 'May freedom from remorse arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that freedom from remorse arises in a person endowed with virtue, consummate in virtue.

"For a person free from remorse, there is no need for an act of will, 'May joy arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that joy arises in a person free from remorse... ...rapturous... ...serene in body... ...experiencing pleasure... ...whose mind is concentrated... ...who knows & sees things as they actually are... ...who feels disenchantment... ...

..."For a dispassionate person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I realize the knowledge & vision of release.' It is in the nature of things that a dispassionate person realizes the knowledge & vision of release.

"In this way, dispassion has knowledge & vision of release as its purpose, knowledge & vision of release as its reward.... ...Skillful virtues have freedom from remorse as their purpose, freedom from remorse as their reward.

"In this way, mental qualities lead on to mental qualities, mental qualities bring mental qualities to their consummation, for the sake of going from the near to the Further Shore."

Mudita & Anumodana
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Re: [Q&A] Goal of liberation in yoga/meditation - Isn't it Boring?
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2019, 02:14:19 PM »

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

from Maha Saropama Sutta: The Longer Heartwood-simile Discourse:

... "Furthermore, there is the case where a certain son of good family, out of conviction, goes forth from the home life into homelessness, [thinking,] 'I am beset by birth, by aging-&-death, by sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs, beset by stress, overcome with stress. Perhaps the end of this entire mass of stress might be discerned!' Having thus gone forth, he encounters gain, offerings, & fame. He is not gratified with that gain, offerings, & fame, his resolve not fulfilled. He is not intoxicated with that gain, offerings, & fame, not heedless about it, and does not fall into heedlessness. Being heedful, he achieves consummation in virtue. He is gratified with that consummation in virtue, but his resolve is not fulfilled. Because of that consummation in virtue he does not exalt himself or disparage others. He is not intoxicated with that consummation in virtue, not heedless about it, and does not fall into heedlessness. Being heedful, he achieves consummation in concentration. He is gratified with that consummation in concentration, but his resolve is not fulfilled. He is not intoxicated with that consummation in concentration, not heedless about it, and does not fall into heedlessness. Being heedful, he achieves knowledge & vision. He is gratified with that knowledge & vision, but his resolve is not fulfilled. Because of that knowledge & vision he does not exalt himself or disparage others. He is not intoxicated with that knowledge & vision, not heedless about it, and does not fall into heedlessness. Being heedful, he achieves a non-occasional liberation. And it is impossible, monks, there is no opportunity, for that monk to fall from that non-occasional release. [1]

"Just as if a man in need of heartwood, seeking heartwood, wandering in search of heartwood, cutting away just the heartwood of a great standing tree possessed of heartwood, were to go off carrying it, knowing, 'heartwood.' A man with good eyesight, seeing him, would say, 'Ah, how this good man did know heartwood, did know sapwood, did know inner bark, did know outer bark, did know twigs & leaves! That's why he, in need of heartwood, seeking heartwood, wandering in search of heartwood, cutting away just the heartwood of a great standing tree possessed of heartwood, were to go off carrying it, knowing, "heartwood." Whatever heartwood-business he had with heartwood, his purpose will be served.'

"In the same way, monks, there is the case where a certain son of good family, out of conviction, goes forth from the home life into homelessness, [thinking,] 'I am beset by birth, by aging-&-death, by sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs, beset by stress, overcome with stress. Perhaps the end of this entire mass of stress might be discerned!' Having thus gone forth, he encounters gain, offerings, & fame. He is not gratified with that gain, offerings, & fame, his resolve not fulfilled. He is not intoxicated with that gain, offerings, & fame, not heedless about it, and does not fall into heedlessness. Being heedful, he achieves consummation in virtue. He is gratified with that consummation in virtue, but his resolve is not fulfilled. Because of that consummation in virtue he does not exalt himself or disparage others. He is not intoxicated with that consummation in virtue, not heedless about it, and does not fall into heedlessness. Being heedful, he achieves consummation in concentration. He is gratified with that consummation in concentration, but his resolve is not fulfilled. Because of that consummation in concentration he does not exalt himself or disparage others. He is not intoxicated with that consummation in concentration, not heedless about it, and does not fall into heedlessness. Being heedful, he achieves knowledge & vision. He is gratified with that knowledge & vision, but his resolve is not fulfilled. Because of that knowledge & vision he does not exalt himself or disparage others. He is not intoxicated with that knowledge & vision, not heedless about it, and does not fall into heedlessness. Being heedful, he achieves a non-occasional liberation. And it is impossible, monks, there is no opportunity, for that monk to fall from that non-occasional release.

"Monks, this holy life doesn't have as its reward gain, offerings, & fame, doesn't have as its reward consummation of virtue, doesn't have as its reward consummation of concentration, doesn't have as its reward knowledge & vision, but the unprovoked [2]awareness-release: That is the purpose of this holy life, that is its heartwood, that its final end."
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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