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2019 Oct 17 12:06:02
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2019 Oct 17 11:51:37
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2019 Oct 17 11:51:25
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2019 Oct 17 11:50:47
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2019 Oct 17 11:50:25
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2019 Oct 17 11:48:30
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2019 Oct 17 11:45:08
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2019 Oct 17 11:44:00
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2019 Oct 16 03:29:01
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2019 Oct 15 15:28:14
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2019 Oct 15 14:56:50
Johann: Nyom Villa said: May Brah Ang recover fast. May Oncle Chanroth recover fastl as well.

2019 Oct 15 14:49:29
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2019 Oct 15 14:48:46
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2019 Oct 15 14:14:23
Johann: Chanroth said: At times Brah Ang has ābādhi (illness), I am also sick.

2019 Oct 15 13:24:21
Chanroth: ពេលព្រះអង្គមានអាពាធិ ខ្ញុំមានជំម្ងឺដែរ _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2019 Oct 14 10:22:27
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2019 Oct 13 04:44:10
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Oct 13 01:17:17
Johann: Sadhu

2019 Oct 13 01:15:59
Khemakumara: May every living being in all realms be free from ever illness, free from danger, free from animosity and free from oppression.

2019 Oct 13 00:50:55
Khemakumara: may it be a path-and fruitful Uposatha Day

2019 Oct 12 15:40:31
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2019 Oct 12 13:47:46
Varado:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Oct 11 16:35:52
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2019 Oct 10 10:55:45
Khemakumara: Nyom Cheav Villa

2019 Oct 10 10:54:11
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2019 Oct 10 05:11:04
Khemakumara: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante

2019 Oct 08 15:01:04
Vithou:  _/\_

2019 Oct 07 07:39:21
Johann: Good to hear

2019 Oct 07 05:48:11
Khemakumara: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Kana Bhante. may kana trust, that  prah  karuṇā dwells in kusalā  conditions in and outwardly.

2019 Oct 07 05:09:34
Johann: Bhante. All health and relaying on good outwardly and inwardly conditions?

2019 Oct 07 04:20:19
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2019 Oct 06 06:44:19
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Oct 06 06:24:49
Johann: Sadhu

2019 Oct 06 04:48:36
Khemakumara: something to give (in)? Today is waxing moon Uposatha! May it be a path- and fruitful give (in) day!

2019 Oct 06 04:37:01
Khemakumara:  *gift*

2019 Oct 02 16:38:31
Cheav Villa:  _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2019 Oct 02 12:27:40
Khemakumara: Sadhu and mudita

2019 Oct 02 12:06:36
Johann: (U.Chanroth wrote in mudita: Today Buddhaparisada arrived at Ashram Thmo Duk)

2019 Oct 02 08:31:08
Chanroth: ថ្ងៃនេះពុទ្ធបរិស័ទ្ទមកដល់អាស្រមថ្មទូក _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 30 06:49:48
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 30 06:15:26
Johann: Nyom Villa

2019 Sep 29 05:35:53
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 28 06:56:38
Johann: Nyom Chanroth wrote: "Natthi santi paraṃ sokhaṃ" No happiness higher then that of peace.

2019 Sep 28 04:22:03
Chanroth: នត្ថិ សន្តិ បរំ សុខំ

2019 Sep 28 04:06:00
Chanroth:   _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 28 01:57:20
Khemakumara: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 28 01:40:27
Johann: A blessed and virtuous new-moon Uposata for those holding it today.

2019 Sep 26 01:28:41
Johann: Bhante

2019 Sep 26 01:17:26
Khemakumara: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante

2019 Sep 23 05:39:08
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 23 05:24:36
Johann: Bhante, Bhante

2019 Sep 22 18:47:42
Johann: Kana needs to leave now for possible tomorrow again, Bhante. Much dhammic joy in further exploring here within. and a blessed halfmoon day.

2019 Sep 22 16:41:02
Johann: _/\_ Bhante Varado (batterie of mine will be off soon, just to inform)

2019 Sep 22 07:28:15
Johann: Sadhu

2019 Sep 22 03:26:27
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 22 02:48:14
Khemakumara: may it be a path-and fruitful Uposatha Day

2019 Sep 22 02:48:14
Khemakumara: may it be a path-and fruitful Uposatha Day

2019 Sep 21 23:53:54
Vithou:  _/\_

2019 Sep 21 13:36:07
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 21 09:37:51
Johann: A blessed and meritful Sila-day those who keep it today.

2019 Sep 20 07:29:23
Johann:  _/\_ Bhante Varado

2019 Sep 19 14:52:03
Johann: Bhante

2019 Sep 19 14:36:44
Khemakumara: Nyom saddhamma

2019 Sep 19 14:35:55
Khemakumara: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante

2019 Sep 19 09:58:15
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante

2019 Sep 19 04:31:27
Khemakumara: Nyom Cheav Villa

2019 Sep 19 01:47:48
Khemakumara: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante

2019 Sep 18 16:44:10
Johann:  _/\_ Bhante Ariyadhammika

2019 Sep 18 06:35:53
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Kana, Bhante and kana are well!

2019 Sep 18 06:32:01
Johann: Bhante  _/\_ Is he and Bhante well?

2019 Sep 18 04:25:43
Khemakumara: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante

2019 Sep 18 04:10:57
Johann: Nyom Villa.

2019 Sep 18 02:48:47
Cheav Villa: Welcome, upasaka sadhamma _/\_

2019 Sep 18 02:47:31
Cheav Villa: Master Moritz _/\_

2019 Sep 18 02:47:15
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 18 01:59:53
Moritz: Good night _/\_

2019 Sep 18 01:59:44
Moritz: _/\_ Bong Villa

2019 Sep 18 01:41:47
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2019 Sep 18 01:30:08
Moritz: Welcome, upasaka sadhamma _/\_

2019 Sep 18 01:29:43
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 14 01:20:37
Johann: (no problem at all) A blessed and meritful conducted Uposatha those observing it today.

2019 Sep 13 16:07:47
Cheav Villa: សុំទោស _/\_

2019 Sep 13 16:06:36
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2019 Sep 13 15:53:17
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Varado _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 13 15:51:32
Johann:  _/\_ Bante Varado. Nyom Morotz, Nyom Villa.

2019 Sep 13 15:50:03
Cheav Villa: Master Morit  :) _/\_

2019 Sep 13 15:47:31
Moritz: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Varado _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Johann _/\_ Bong Villa

2019 Sep 13 00:35:39
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 12 20:36:10
Johann: Beyound birth, stand, age, gender, lay or in robes.

2019 Sep 12 20:33:57
Johann: No way for one not gained relation at time.

2019 Sep 12 20:33:01
Johann: Beings, indeed, find only that what they are looking for, and seldom, very seldom, it's related upwatdly, even release in unbond.

2019 Sep 12 17:35:22
Johann: (Delayed) Bhante.

2019 Sep 12 16:16:22
Khemakumara: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Johann

2019 Sep 12 16:16:03
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Varado

2019 Sep 12 10:25:12
Cheav Villa: សូមសុខ សុវត្ថិភាពតាមផ្លូវ _/\_

2019 Sep 12 10:14:50
Chanroth:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ខ្ញុំទៅ v.n​ ដេីម្បីព្យាបាលជម្ងឺក្រពះ របស់ម្ដាយខ្ញុំ

2019 Sep 12 09:45:43
Johann: Bhante. May Bhante look at his Kuti .

2019 Sep 12 09:02:52
Varado: Thanks for fixing that. May you be well.

2019 Sep 12 08:41:30
Varado: Is the Glossary still available for download?

2019 Sep 12 08:26:31
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhate _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ How is Bhante's health?  _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

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Author Topic: [Q&A] Where does hiri & ottappa (shame & fear of wrongdoing) fit in the Path?  (Read 662 times)

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Offline Johann

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[Q&A] Where does hiri & ottappa (shame & fear of wrongdoing) fit in the Path?

Quote from: Upasaka Frank asked on BSE

Where does hiri & ottappa (shame & fear of wrongdoing) fit in 4 Noble Truth, Noble Eigthfold Path, into the 37 Wings to Awakening (bodhi-pakkhiya-dhamma)?

In AN 7.67 , we see it working protecting the fortress with outer road and moat: (and the remaining 5 factors are 5 indriya, and Dhamma weapons)

https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2019/06/an-767-frontier-fortress-sutta.html

In AN 7.65, it's a vital condition for sense restraint, which in turn is vital condition for sila. 65. Hirīottappasutta 65. Conscience and Prudence “Hirottappe, bhikkhave, asati hirottappavipannassa hatūpaniso hoti indriyasaṃvaro; “monks, when there is no conscience and prudence, one who lacks conscience and prudence has destroyed a vital condition for sense restraint. indriyasaṃvare asati indriyasaṃvaravipannassa hatūpanisaṃ hoti sīlaṃ; When there is no sense restraint, one who lacks sense restraint has destroyed a vital condition for ethical conduct. There are probably other entry points where it's linked in to the Seven Factors for Awakening (bojjhaṅga), the Noble Eightfold Path (ariya-magga),  the 37 Wings to Awakening, the Four Noble Truth?

Unlike the 4 brahmavihara formula, where each brahmavihara has the keyword "abyapajja", which is a direct link to 8aam -> right resolve -> abyapada-sankappo (non-illwill resolve), I can't think of any such very direct explicit link into 4nt and 8aam or 37bp for hiri & ottappa.

Anyone know for sure?

Venerable members of the Sangha,
walking in front Fellows in leading the holly life.

  _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

Venerable fellows,

In Respect of the Triple Gems, Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, in Respect of the Elders of the community  _/\_ , my person to share a question and investigate it. Please, may all knowledgeable Venerables and Dhammika, out of compassion, correct my person, if something is not correct and fill also graps, if something is missing.

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dear Readers and Visitors,

Upasaga Frank K, intetested,

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Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa  

As for The Noble Eightfold Path (ariya-magga):

Hiri-ottappa (shame & fear of wrongdoing) is an aspect of right resolve, going after the desire of not harming, causing no conflicts and restrain, renouncing (sense desires, desire after becoming). Hiri & ottappa are working here toward development of the virtue section and having the purification of virtue as result, resulting then in further refining through right effort (again a pattern of hiri & ottappa), driving one into the heart of the conncentration section. As Nyom Rubben mentioned , they work for the perfection of Sila as prerequisite of right samādhi and paññā.

In The Four Frames of Reference (satipaṭṭhāna) they work at all for in the area of ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world.

The Four Right Exertions (sammappadhāna), they cover the hole drive for right effort.

Likewise in The Four Bases of Power (iddhipāda) on a refined level.

In The Five Faculties (indrīya), Sila and it's cause is found in The faculty of conviction (saddhindrīya) and faculty of persistence (viriyindrīya).

Likewise in The Five Strengths (bala) as The strength of conviction (saddhā-bala) and strength of persistence (viriya-bala)..

In The Seven Factors for Awakening (bojjhaṅga) they are included in Mindfulness as a factor for Awakening (sati-sambojjhaṅga), Analysis of qualities as a factor for Awakening (dhamma-vicaya-sambojjhaṅga), Persistence as a factor for Awakening (viriya-sambojjhaṅga).

So hiri & oppatta are factors supporting Conviction (saddhā): Right Speech (Eightfold Path), Right Action (Eightfold Path), Right Livelihood (Eightfold Path), Desire (Bases of Power) and Persistence (viriya): Right Effort (Eightfold Path), Four Right Exertions, Persistence (Bases of Power) Persistence (Factors for Awakening).

As coming from Right resolve, effort, bases on right view, hiri & oppatta has right view as for-runner:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

There is the case where a certain person is not covetous. He does not covet the belongings of others, thinking, 'O, that what belongs to others would be mine!' He bears no ill will and is not corrupt in the resolves of his heart. [He thinks,] 'May these beings be free from animosity, free from oppression, free from trouble, and may they look after themselves with ease!' He has right view and is not warped in the way he sees things: 'There is what is given, what is offered, what is sacrificed. There are fruits & results of good & bad actions. There is this world & the next world. There is mother & father. There are spontaneously reborn beings; there are brahmans & contemplatives who, faring rightly & practicing rightly, proclaim this world & the next after having directly known & realized it for themselves.' This is how one is made pure in three ways by mental action."

One lacking in right view may think before or/and after deeds: to deny responsibility, to deny that harm was actually done, to deny the worth of the victim, to attack the accuser, and to claim that they were acting in the service of a higher cause.

And the Buddhas cut offs, maintained by right view are: (1) We are always responsible for our conscious choices. (2) We should always put ourselves in the other person's place. (3) All beings are worthy of respect. (4) We should regard those who point out our faults as if they were pointing out treasure. (5) There are no — repeat, no — higher purposes that excuse breaking the basic precepts of ethical behavior. (one may see Reconciliation, Right & Wrong , in regard of changing ways)

Usual sense-desire and desire for becoming (joy, happiness) are the "higher pruposes" why people lose shame and fear of wrongdoing.

(right) Hiri & Opatta are governed be the desire for becoming and to a state even beyind becoming, to leve behind low stands, states and enter that of the Noble Ones, governed by one or all three governing principles (right view):

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

"There are these three governing principles. Which three? The self as a governing principle, the cosmos as a governing principle, and the Dhamma as a governing principle. ...Adhipateyya Sutta: Governing Principles

As there is shame and fear of wrong doing actually present in all beings and actions, but for the most shame in doing good and fear to lose face under fools, this talk may be usefull supply to leave associations with fools toward wise:

In the Eyes of the Wise: The Buddha’s Teachings on Honor & Shame

May no one be ever ashamed in doing merits and may no one fear to do wrong what fools regard as their refuge, to find real happiness for oneself with ease.

Anumodana punna kusala
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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