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Talkbox

2019 Nov 12 05:35:02
Khemakumara:  Sīlena nibbutiṁ yanti. Through virtue they go to Unbinding. May it be a fruit-and pathful Uposatha day.

2019 Nov 11 16:41:52
Varado: Happily indeed we live, we, for whom there is [nowhere] anything at all. We will feed on rapture like the Ābhassarā devas. Dh.v.200.

2019 Nov 11 11:40:45
Johann: Ven. Sirs  _/\_ (Kana trust that leave for some rest will not reduce Bhantes releasing joy here)

2019 Nov 11 11:13:48
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 11 11:06:19
Johann: May it be an auspicious end of the Vassa of the Noble ones, a deep Anapanasati day today, for all conducting the full moon uposatha today.

2019 Nov 11 06:00:43
Johann: " Happy/peaceful the area/custom of the Arahats, craving and wandering on having layed aside"?

2019 Nov 11 03:22:11
Johann: Of which would mean what, Lok Ta, if not wishing to use google or not given means?

2019 Nov 10 23:54:03
Varado: Sukhino vata arahanto taṇhā tesaṃ na vijjati _/\_

2019 Nov 10 19:51:07
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Ariyadhammika

2019 Nov 10 17:54:44
Johann: ភនតេ វ៉ាលិ

2019 Nov 10 14:42:47
Johann: Lok Ta  _/\_

2019 Nov 09 16:31:12
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  :) _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 09 16:25:14
Johann: May Nyom and all have a safe travel

2019 Nov 09 16:03:41
Cheav Villa: Kana and kids Plan to go to Aural tomorrow, will leave Phnom Penh at 5am  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 09 15:41:39
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 09 15:37:40
Johann: Bhante Ariyadhammica, Nyom Villa

2019 Nov 09 15:35:16
Johann: Sadhu

2019 Nov 09 14:56:15
Varado: Homage to the Noble Sangha _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 09 14:55:15
Varado: Blessed is the arising of Buddhas. Blessed is the explaining of the true teaching. Blessed is concord in the community of bhikkhus. Of those in concord, blessed is their practice of austerity.

2019 Nov 09 14:53:06
Johann: Ven Grandfather, Nyom Annaleana,

2019 Nov 09 01:57:47
Moritz: Vandami, Bhante Varado _/\_

2019 Nov 09 01:43:05
Varado: Pūjā ca pūjanīyānaṃ

2019 Nov 09 00:44:14
Johann: Worthy those on path or reached the aim

2019 Nov 08 22:36:29
Varado: Homage to those elder bhikkhus of long-standing who have long gone forth, the fathers and leaders of the Sangha. _/\_

2019 Nov 08 20:16:23
Johann: May the Venerables allow my persons leave, running out of battery.  _/\_

2019 Nov 08 20:09:51
Johann: Sadhu, Sadhu!

2019 Nov 08 20:09:14
Varado: Homage to Good Friends. For this is the entire holy life. _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 08 20:07:04
Varado: Homage to the Good Friends. For this is the entire holy life. _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 08 19:29:09
Varado: Thanks for summary. I send article on milk. Anything else?

2019 Nov 08 18:53:24
Varado: Also greed, hatred, and delusion. Tīni akusalamūlāni: lobho akusalamūlaṃ doso akusalamūlaṃ moho akusalamūlaṃ (D.3.214).

2019 Nov 08 18:36:34
Johann: So does it, so does it, for Bhikkhus, layman, laywoman as well. And what is the root of stinginess? Ingratitude (wrong view).

2019 Nov 08 18:30:56
Varado: Possessing five qualities, a bhikkhuni is deposited in hell as if brought there. What five? She is miserly with dwellings, families, gains, praise, and the Dhamma (A.3.139). Pañcahi bhikkhave dhammehi samannāgatā bhikkhunī yathābhataṃ nikkhittā evaṃ niraye: katamehi pañcahi: Āvāsamaccha

2019 Nov 08 18:23:39
Varado: Macchariya for lodgings, maybe?

2019 Nov 08 18:01:17
Johann: Kana saw that Bhikkhunis has even a rule in regard of macchariya, for Vineyya in their Vinaya.

2019 Nov 08 17:58:14
Johann: So does it dear Ven. Grandfather, so does it. Amacchariya is the domain of the Noble Ones, beginning by the stream to the complete of stinginess's root.

2019 Nov 08 17:51:33
Varado: Having eliminated the stain of stinginess together with its origin, they are beyond criticism.

2019 Nov 08 17:35:15
Johann: ...and "Vineyya maccheramalaṁ samūlaṁ aninditā"

2019 Nov 08 17:29:21
Johann: These Devas and Brahmas...  :) mudita

2019 Nov 08 16:53:41
Varado: May the Buddha bless you. May the Dhamma shine on you. May Wat Ayum be a refuge to many. For any possible help with questions, please email. My pleasure.

2019 Nov 08 13:55:57
Johann: ..."This shows that the Buddha would not be troubled by those who become angry and resentful, but by those who are strongly opinionated and who relinquish their views reluctantly...."

2019 Nov 08 09:27:01
Johann: Ven. Bhantes

2019 Nov 08 09:23:11
Khemakumara:   _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Ariyadhammika

2019 Nov 08 06:26:12
Johann: It was four days after closing that decreased in last instance

2019 Nov 08 06:15:13
Moritz: The bot traffic is not decreasing.

2019 Nov 08 06:15:10
Johann: Ayasma Moritz

2019 Nov 08 06:14:53
Moritz: (was logged in long time before, but not at PC)

2019 Nov 08 06:14:52
Johann: Ayasama Moritz

2019 Nov 08 06:14:06
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 08 02:08:55
Moritz: Sadhu _/\_ May Bhante bear and overcome all sickness well _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 08 02:05:42
Khemakumara: Khantı paramaṁ tapo tītikkhā. Patient forbearance is the highest austerity

2019 Nov 08 02:01:46
Khemakumara: lack of energy because of sickness of the body (boils) Nyom Moritz

2019 Nov 08 01:53:48
Khemakumara: Meister Moritz

2019 Nov 08 01:52:12
Moritz: Hoping Bhante is well _/\_

2019 Nov 08 01:51:55
Moritz: Vandami Bhante (Khemakumara) _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 07 20:02:22
Johann: enery, battery saysfinish for now... may there be food for liberation be found and got touched by many independently.

2019 Nov 07 20:00:16
Johann: Every being, even without capacity to gain higher, is worthy of metta, worthy to be not harmed in existance, worthy to help in times of needing the four paccayas, Ven. Grandfather.

2019 Nov 07 19:37:39
Visitor: Let us treat those with Buddhanature with the respect appropriate to future Buddhas.

2019 Nov 07 19:01:03
Johann: Maybe an inspirig topic on the matter How should I express Mudita or Joy for all beings? for all having access (upanissaya).

2019 Nov 07 18:56:59
Johann: Sadhu, Sadhu. That's how mudita is good understood in relation with "Buddhanature"

2019 Nov 07 18:54:52
Visitor: Homage to all those with Buddhanature. _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 07 18:53:59
Visitor:  Homage to all the Buddhas.  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 07 18:28:47
Johann: Dear lok ta Visitor

2019 Nov 07 17:29:02
Cheav Villa:  _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 07 17:24:12
Johann: Don't worry either, yet perfect if visiting the Nuns. Mudita

2019 Nov 07 17:21:15
Cheav Villa: About the medicin called loṇasociraka, Kana will take time to go to Visit Wat Panha to ask her for detail  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 07 17:21:05
Johann: Cetana counts, the own one, Nyom.

2019 Nov 07 17:18:42
Johann: May Nyom not worry to much about it. My person guesses Nyom Chanroth might have lot of joy in the idea of planting. While Cacaco is fine, yet not a need or request, it's something that can be gained in shops.

2019 Nov 07 17:09:57
Cheav Villa: Kana now seen without Sila… someone could not tell the truth 

2019 Nov 07 17:01:13
Cheav Villa: Kana ordered 5kg via web, phoned them 2days ago but still no delivery cause of no confirmation since he still abroad now

2019 Nov 07 16:49:17
Cheav Villa: But the Cacao company in Mondolkiri doesnt allowed, they sale Cacao beans.

2019 Nov 07 16:47:38
Cheav Villa: Kana Bhante  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ as he informed to bring only Cacao fruits for Bhante could make and use of medecine againts Malaria

2019 Nov 07 16:20:48
Johann: Indeed releasing investigation cause hunger and no food can be expected at the end as well.

2019 Nov 07 16:18:35
Johann: When homeless effort is requested, no joy in sacrificing into it. Oh this monks... of modern world.  :)

2019 Nov 07 16:16:59
Johann: Oh this monks  :) When household effort can be made for favor and house, all engaged...

2019 Nov 07 14:17:18
Johann: Āyasmā Moritz (Master, a usual address for skilled lay people in the Tipitaka)

2019 Nov 06 17:27:06
Cheav Villa: Master Moritz _/\_

2019 Nov 06 17:23:52
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2019 Nov 06 17:23:46
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Nov 06 00:13:12
Vithou:  _/\_

2019 Nov 05 22:47:19
Moritz: Hello Visitor! _/\_

2019 Nov 05 16:44:34
Johann: ...and that is good! Cacao

2019 Nov 05 16:31:04
Cheav Villa: Kana Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ :)

2019 Nov 05 16:28:43
Johann: no secrets...

2019 Nov 05 16:04:15
Cheav Villa:  :) _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 05 16:03:13
Cheav Villa: I Kana got an inform from Pou Chanroth told about CaCoa seeds e

2019 Nov 05 15:49:59
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 05 10:01:43
Danilo: Bhante _/\_

2019 Nov 05 10:00:01
Johann: Nyom Danilo

2019 Nov 05 07:00:40
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 05 06:14:16
Johann: Sadhu

2019 Nov 05 06:10:03
Khemakumara: Sīlena nibbutiṁ yanti. Through virtue they go to Unbinding. May it be a fruit-and pathful Uposatha day.

2019 Nov 04 18:27:13
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 04 18:13:29
Cheav Villa:  :) _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 04 16:54:28
Johann: His encouragements, Anumodana, Sadhu

2019 Nov 04 16:51:26
Visitor: ... receive the Buddha's blesssings.

2019 Nov 04 16:50:03
Johann: Sadhu

2019 Nov 04 16:48:10
Visitor: May all visitors to this site receive the Buddha'

2019 Nov 04 15:23:02
Johann: Sadhu! May Visitor feel always welcome and given to take also own account and good birth in this realm. If needing something, just let it be known.

2019 Nov 04 15:08:20
Visitor: May all beings be well. Thank you for this site

2019 Nov 04 07:11:27
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

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Author Topic: [Q&A] Where does hiri & ottappa (shame & fear of wrongdoing) fit in the Path?  (Read 721 times)

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Offline Johann

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[Q&A] Where does hiri & ottappa (shame & fear of wrongdoing) fit in the Path?

Quote from: Upasaka Frank asked on BSE

Where does hiri & ottappa (shame & fear of wrongdoing) fit in 4 Noble Truth, Noble Eigthfold Path, into the 37 Wings to Awakening (bodhi-pakkhiya-dhamma)?

In AN 7.67 , we see it working protecting the fortress with outer road and moat: (and the remaining 5 factors are 5 indriya, and Dhamma weapons)

https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2019/06/an-767-frontier-fortress-sutta.html

In AN 7.65, it's a vital condition for sense restraint, which in turn is vital condition for sila. 65. Hirīottappasutta 65. Conscience and Prudence “Hirottappe, bhikkhave, asati hirottappavipannassa hatūpaniso hoti indriyasaṃvaro; “monks, when there is no conscience and prudence, one who lacks conscience and prudence has destroyed a vital condition for sense restraint. indriyasaṃvare asati indriyasaṃvaravipannassa hatūpanisaṃ hoti sīlaṃ; When there is no sense restraint, one who lacks sense restraint has destroyed a vital condition for ethical conduct. There are probably other entry points where it's linked in to the Seven Factors for Awakening (bojjhaṅga), the Noble Eightfold Path (ariya-magga),  the 37 Wings to Awakening, the Four Noble Truth?

Unlike the 4 brahmavihara formula, where each brahmavihara has the keyword "abyapajja", which is a direct link to 8aam -> right resolve -> abyapada-sankappo (non-illwill resolve), I can't think of any such very direct explicit link into 4nt and 8aam or 37bp for hiri & ottappa.

Anyone know for sure?

Venerable members of the Sangha,
walking in front Fellows in leading the holly life.

  _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

Venerable fellows,

In Respect of the Triple Gems, Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, in Respect of the Elders of the community  _/\_ , my person to share a question and investigate it. Please, may all knowledgeable Venerables and Dhammika, out of compassion, correct my person, if something is not correct and fill also graps, if something is missing.

Valued Upasaka, Upasika, Aramika(inis),
dear Readers and Visitors,

Upasaga Frank K, intetested,

 *sgift*

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa  

As for The Noble Eightfold Path (ariya-magga):

Hiri-ottappa (shame & fear of wrongdoing) is an aspect of right resolve, going after the desire of not harming, causing no conflicts and restrain, renouncing (sense desires, desire after becoming). Hiri & ottappa are working here toward development of the virtue section and having the purification of virtue as result, resulting then in further refining through right effort (again a pattern of hiri & ottappa), driving one into the heart of the conncentration section. As Nyom Rubben mentioned , they work for the perfection of Sila as prerequisite of right samādhi and paññā.

In The Four Frames of Reference (satipaṭṭhāna) they work at all for in the area of ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world.

The Four Right Exertions (sammappadhāna), they cover the hole drive for right effort.

Likewise in The Four Bases of Power (iddhipāda) on a refined level.

In The Five Faculties (indrīya), Sila and it's cause is found in The faculty of conviction (saddhindrīya) and faculty of persistence (viriyindrīya).

Likewise in The Five Strengths (bala) as The strength of conviction (saddhā-bala) and strength of persistence (viriya-bala)..

In The Seven Factors for Awakening (bojjhaṅga) they are included in Mindfulness as a factor for Awakening (sati-sambojjhaṅga), Analysis of qualities as a factor for Awakening (dhamma-vicaya-sambojjhaṅga), Persistence as a factor for Awakening (viriya-sambojjhaṅga).

So hiri & oppatta are factors supporting Conviction (saddhā): Right Speech (Eightfold Path), Right Action (Eightfold Path), Right Livelihood (Eightfold Path), Desire (Bases of Power) and Persistence (viriya): Right Effort (Eightfold Path), Four Right Exertions, Persistence (Bases of Power) Persistence (Factors for Awakening).

As coming from Right resolve, effort, bases on right view, hiri & oppatta has right view as for-runner:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

There is the case where a certain person is not covetous. He does not covet the belongings of others, thinking, 'O, that what belongs to others would be mine!' He bears no ill will and is not corrupt in the resolves of his heart. [He thinks,] 'May these beings be free from animosity, free from oppression, free from trouble, and may they look after themselves with ease!' He has right view and is not warped in the way he sees things: 'There is what is given, what is offered, what is sacrificed. There are fruits & results of good & bad actions. There is this world & the next world. There is mother & father. There are spontaneously reborn beings; there are brahmans & contemplatives who, faring rightly & practicing rightly, proclaim this world & the next after having directly known & realized it for themselves.' This is how one is made pure in three ways by mental action."

One lacking in right view may think before or/and after deeds: to deny responsibility, to deny that harm was actually done, to deny the worth of the victim, to attack the accuser, and to claim that they were acting in the service of a higher cause.

And the Buddhas cut offs, maintained by right view are: (1) We are always responsible for our conscious choices. (2) We should always put ourselves in the other person's place. (3) All beings are worthy of respect. (4) We should regard those who point out our faults as if they were pointing out treasure. (5) There are no — repeat, no — higher purposes that excuse breaking the basic precepts of ethical behavior. (one may see Reconciliation, Right & Wrong , in regard of changing ways)

Usual sense-desire and desire for becoming (joy, happiness) are the "higher pruposes" why people lose shame and fear of wrongdoing.

(right) Hiri & Opatta are governed be the desire for becoming and to a state even beyind becoming, to leve behind low stands, states and enter that of the Noble Ones, governed by one or all three governing principles (right view):

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

"There are these three governing principles. Which three? The self as a governing principle, the cosmos as a governing principle, and the Dhamma as a governing principle. ...Adhipateyya Sutta: Governing Principles

As there is shame and fear of wrong doing actually present in all beings and actions, but for the most shame in doing good and fear to lose face under fools, this talk may be usefull supply to leave associations with fools toward wise:

In the Eyes of the Wise: The Buddha’s Teachings on Honor & Shame

May no one be ever ashamed in doing merits and may no one fear to do wrong what fools regard as their refuge, to find real happiness for oneself with ease.

Anumodana punna kusala
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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