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2019 Sep 19 01:47:48
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2019 Sep 18 16:44:10
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2019 Sep 18 06:35:53
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2019 Sep 18 02:48:47
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2019 Sep 18 02:47:15
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2019 Sep 18 01:59:53
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2019 Sep 18 01:59:44
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2019 Sep 14 01:20:37
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2019 Sep 13 16:07:47
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2019 Sep 13 15:53:17
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2019 Sep 13 15:50:03
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2019 Sep 13 15:47:31
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2019 Sep 13 00:35:39
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2019 Sep 12 20:36:10
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2019 Sep 12 20:33:57
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2019 Sep 12 20:33:01
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2019 Sep 12 17:35:22
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2019 Sep 12 16:16:22
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2019 Sep 12 10:25:12
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2019 Sep 12 10:14:50
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2019 Sep 12 09:45:43
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2019 Sep 12 09:02:52
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2019 Sep 12 08:41:30
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2019 Sep 12 08:26:31
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2019 Sep 09 13:03:42
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2019 Sep 07 11:49:16
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2019 Sep 07 09:12:43
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2019 Sep 07 01:50:59
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2019 Sep 07 00:53:49
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2019 Sep 06 11:58:54
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2019 Sep 06 11:53:04
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2019 Sep 06 11:49:40
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2019 Sep 06 08:29:17
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2019 Sep 06 08:08:29
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2019 Sep 06 08:06:42
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2019 Sep 06 07:41:15
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2019 Sep 06 07:35:57
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2019 Sep 06 07:32:24
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2019 Sep 06 06:20:55
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2019 Sep 06 06:01:57
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2019 Sep 06 05:51:33
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2019 Sep 06 04:55:56
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2019 Sep 06 04:49:44
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2019 Sep 06 04:47:12
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2019 Sep 06 04:39:34
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2019 Sep 06 04:35:33
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2019 Sep 06 04:18:55
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2019 Sep 06 04:15:27
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2019 Sep 06 04:13:41
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2019 Sep 06 04:11:05
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2019 Sep 06 03:07:38
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2019 Sep 06 03:06:19
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2019 Sep 06 01:50:10
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2019 Sep 06 01:45:46
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2019 Sep 05 12:00:09
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2019 Sep 05 10:10:57
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2019 Aug 30 03:50:22
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2019 Aug 30 02:34:32
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2019 Aug 30 01:33:20
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2019 Aug 29 02:10:10
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2019 Aug 29 01:58:34
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2019 Aug 25 15:07:04
Vithou:  _/\_

2019 Aug 23 06:28:14
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2019 Aug 23 06:06:18
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2019 Aug 22 12:53:30
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2019 Aug 22 10:04:46
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2019 Aug 22 10:01:05
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Bong Villa _/\_

2019 Aug 21 10:59:03
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2019 Aug 21 10:44:55
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2019 Aug 21 09:15:49
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2019 Aug 21 08:22:24
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2019 Aug 20 11:46:26
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2019 Aug 20 11:25:55
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2019 Aug 16 12:51:30
Johann: Does she have any technical difficulty? Just because such could be.

2019 Aug 16 12:50:14
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2019 Aug 15 04:29:20
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Sadhu

2019 Aug 15 03:49:34
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2019 Aug 15 00:36:44
Johann: A blessed full moon Upusatha and much joy in merits

2019 Aug 11 14:35:01
Mohan Gnanathilake: Dear The Most Reverend Samanera Johann, Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka! Sehr ehrwürdiger Samanera Johann, Dhamma Grüße an Sie aus Sri Lanka!

2019 Aug 11 14:32:29
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2019 Aug 11 14:14:46
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Author Topic: [Q&A] Where does hiri & ottappa (shame & fear of wrongdoing) fit in the Path?  (Read 644 times)

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Offline Johann

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[Q&A] Where does hiri & ottappa (shame & fear of wrongdoing) fit in the Path?

Quote from: Upasaka Frank asked on BSE

Where does hiri & ottappa (shame & fear of wrongdoing) fit in 4 Noble Truth, Noble Eigthfold Path, into the 37 Wings to Awakening (bodhi-pakkhiya-dhamma)?

In AN 7.67 , we see it working protecting the fortress with outer road and moat: (and the remaining 5 factors are 5 indriya, and Dhamma weapons)

https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2019/06/an-767-frontier-fortress-sutta.html

In AN 7.65, it's a vital condition for sense restraint, which in turn is vital condition for sila. 65. Hirīottappasutta 65. Conscience and Prudence “Hirottappe, bhikkhave, asati hirottappavipannassa hatūpaniso hoti indriyasaṃvaro; “monks, when there is no conscience and prudence, one who lacks conscience and prudence has destroyed a vital condition for sense restraint. indriyasaṃvare asati indriyasaṃvaravipannassa hatūpanisaṃ hoti sīlaṃ; When there is no sense restraint, one who lacks sense restraint has destroyed a vital condition for ethical conduct. There are probably other entry points where it's linked in to the Seven Factors for Awakening (bojjhaṅga), the Noble Eightfold Path (ariya-magga),  the 37 Wings to Awakening, the Four Noble Truth?

Unlike the 4 brahmavihara formula, where each brahmavihara has the keyword "abyapajja", which is a direct link to 8aam -> right resolve -> abyapada-sankappo (non-illwill resolve), I can't think of any such very direct explicit link into 4nt and 8aam or 37bp for hiri & ottappa.

Anyone know for sure?

Venerable members of the Sangha,
walking in front Fellows in leading the holly life.

  _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

Venerable fellows,

In Respect of the Triple Gems, Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, in Respect of the Elders of the community  _/\_ , my person to share a question and investigate it. Please, may all knowledgeable Venerables and Dhammika, out of compassion, correct my person, if something is not correct and fill also graps, if something is missing.

Valued Upasaka, Upasika, Aramika(inis),
dear Readers and Visitors,

Upasaga Frank K, intetested,

 *sgift*

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa  

As for The Noble Eightfold Path (ariya-magga):

Hiri-ottappa (shame & fear of wrongdoing) is an aspect of right resolve, going after the desire of not harming, causing no conflicts and restrain, renouncing (sense desires, desire after becoming). Hiri & ottappa are working here toward development of the virtue section and having the purification of virtue as result, resulting then in further refining through right effort (again a pattern of hiri & ottappa), driving one into the heart of the conncentration section. As Nyom Rubben mentioned , they work for the perfection of Sila as prerequisite of right samādhi and paññā.

In The Four Frames of Reference (satipaṭṭhāna) they work at all for in the area of ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world.

The Four Right Exertions (sammappadhāna), they cover the hole drive for right effort.

Likewise in The Four Bases of Power (iddhipāda) on a refined level.

In The Five Faculties (indrīya), Sila and it's cause is found in The faculty of conviction (saddhindrīya) and faculty of persistence (viriyindrīya).

Likewise in The Five Strengths (bala) as The strength of conviction (saddhā-bala) and strength of persistence (viriya-bala)..

In The Seven Factors for Awakening (bojjhaṅga) they are included in Mindfulness as a factor for Awakening (sati-sambojjhaṅga), Analysis of qualities as a factor for Awakening (dhamma-vicaya-sambojjhaṅga), Persistence as a factor for Awakening (viriya-sambojjhaṅga).

So hiri & oppatta are factors supporting Conviction (saddhā): Right Speech (Eightfold Path), Right Action (Eightfold Path), Right Livelihood (Eightfold Path), Desire (Bases of Power) and Persistence (viriya): Right Effort (Eightfold Path), Four Right Exertions, Persistence (Bases of Power) Persistence (Factors for Awakening).

As coming from Right resolve, effort, bases on right view, hiri & oppatta has right view as for-runner:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

There is the case where a certain person is not covetous. He does not covet the belongings of others, thinking, 'O, that what belongs to others would be mine!' He bears no ill will and is not corrupt in the resolves of his heart. [He thinks,] 'May these beings be free from animosity, free from oppression, free from trouble, and may they look after themselves with ease!' He has right view and is not warped in the way he sees things: 'There is what is given, what is offered, what is sacrificed. There are fruits & results of good & bad actions. There is this world & the next world. There is mother & father. There are spontaneously reborn beings; there are brahmans & contemplatives who, faring rightly & practicing rightly, proclaim this world & the next after having directly known & realized it for themselves.' This is how one is made pure in three ways by mental action."

One lacking in right view may think before or/and after deeds: to deny responsibility, to deny that harm was actually done, to deny the worth of the victim, to attack the accuser, and to claim that they were acting in the service of a higher cause.

And the Buddhas cut offs, maintained by right view are: (1) We are always responsible for our conscious choices. (2) We should always put ourselves in the other person's place. (3) All beings are worthy of respect. (4) We should regard those who point out our faults as if they were pointing out treasure. (5) There are no — repeat, no — higher purposes that excuse breaking the basic precepts of ethical behavior. (one may see Reconciliation, Right & Wrong , in regard of changing ways)

Usual sense-desire and desire for becoming (joy, happiness) are the "higher pruposes" why people lose shame and fear of wrongdoing.

(right) Hiri & Opatta are governed be the desire for becoming and to a state even beyind becoming, to leve behind low stands, states and enter that of the Noble Ones, governed by one or all three governing principles (right view):

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

"There are these three governing principles. Which three? The self as a governing principle, the cosmos as a governing principle, and the Dhamma as a governing principle. ...Adhipateyya Sutta: Governing Principles

As there is shame and fear of wrong doing actually present in all beings and actions, but for the most shame in doing good and fear to lose face under fools, this talk may be usefull supply to leave associations with fools toward wise:

In the Eyes of the Wise: The Buddha’s Teachings on Honor & Shame

May no one be ever ashamed in doing merits and may no one fear to do wrong what fools regard as their refuge, to find real happiness for oneself with ease.

Anumodana punna kusala
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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