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Talkbox

2019 Jul 19 17:04:51
Johann: Master Moritz. Much joy with good undertakings.

2019 Jul 19 17:01:59
Moritz: and off to work _/\_

2019 Jul 19 17:01:42
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Jul 16 09:09:25
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ sadhu

2019 Jul 16 02:34:51
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jul 16 01:43:24
Johann: A meritful and joyful Fullmoo Uposatha obervance today!

2019 Jul 10 05:42:38
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Sadhu

2019 Jul 10 02:06:05
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jul 10 02:02:27
Johann: May all spend a blessed Sila-day today, engaging much in good deeds.

2019 Jul 09 11:04:55
Johann: A meritful rest of Sila-day, those who observe it today.

2019 Jul 07 06:03:30
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jul 06 14:38:48
Mohan Gnanathilake: Dear The Most Reverend Samanera Johann, Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!

2019 Jul 06 14:38:26
Mohan Gnanathilake: Sehr ehrwürdiger Samanera Johann, Dhamma Grüße an Sie aus Sri Lanka!                                                                                                                                 

2019 Jul 06 14:11:36
Johann: Nyom Mohan

2019 Jul 06 13:15:40
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jul 06 13:03:25
Johann: Kana will try to send the other half of bag as well as "tnam luvin".

2019 Jul 06 12:57:40
Johann: Half the bag, 7 pills, leaded fast to cure.

2019 Jul 06 12:56:05
Johann: Kana wondered about eye and head ache, later reading that viruse, if on head, easy can damage both.

2019 Jul 06 12:54:26
Johann: Kana had to use anti-biotica (augumentine) of which was still left

2019 Jul 06 12:29:25
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ good state of mind.  The infection of the skin isn't already healed but getting better day by day.

2019 Jul 06 12:18:09
Johann: Bhante. Already good healthy again?

2019 Jul 06 12:12:21
Khemakumara: Nyom Cheav Villa

2019 Jul 06 12:11:55
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Johann

2019 Jul 06 11:46:47
Khemakumara: Nyom Vinz

2019 Jul 06 06:21:33
Johann: Sokh chomreoun Nyom

2019 Jul 06 04:29:33
Cheav Villa: ថ្វាយបង្គំព្រះអង្គ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jul 05 12:27:20
Johann: Sadhu

2019 Jul 05 07:51:59
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jul 05 06:52:40
Khemakumara: Today isn't a"full moon"uposatha,  but nevertheless it can be also a"full heart"day of observance and sila.

2019 Jul 04 16:42:58
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2019 Jul 04 16:22:16
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Jul 02 04:43:47
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Sadhu, Sadhu

2019 Jul 02 02:04:50
Johann: A blessed and meritful new-moon Uposatha

2019 Jul 01 06:43:03
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jul 01 04:09:06
Johann: May those undertaking the Uposatha today spend the new-moon joyfull with much merits.

2019 Jun 26 01:07:18
Johann: Good to hear

2019 Jun 25 16:22:42
Cheav Villa: ជំរាបសួរបងស្រី Norum  :D _/\_

2019 Jun 25 12:48:21
Vithou:  _/\_

2019 Jun 25 05:02:43
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jun 25 01:34:59
Johann: May all spend a blessed meritful Sila observing day today

2019 Jun 25 01:34:36
Johann: May all spend a blessed meritful Sila observing day today

2019 Jun 25 01:34:17
Johann: May all spend a blessed meritful Sila observing day today

2019 Jun 23 19:01:54
Vithou:  _/\_

2019 Jun 17 10:19:29
Johann: Bhante Khemakumara. Everything fine, health? Can he walk like before already?

2019 Jun 17 06:34:44
Johann: Sadhu, Sadhu

2019 Jun 17 03:56:38
Cheav Villa: សាធុ សាធុ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jun 17 00:46:14
Khemakumara: May all have a joy-full and fruit-full  Uposatha full-moon day

2019 Jun 15 17:53:43
Cheav Villa: កូណាព្រះអង្គទាំងអស់គ្នាសុខទុក្ខធម្មតា ទាំងសុខភាពឈឺ ជា មិនទៀងទាត់  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ ស្រីមុខក្រញ៉ូវ គាត់មានសុខភាពល្អជា

2019 Jun 15 13:03:21
Johann: All health?

2019 Jun 15 13:02:56
Johann: Nyom Muk-kamau?

2019 Jun 15 13:01:36
Johann: And own well-being, family?

2019 Jun 15 12:48:22
Johann: Maybe all busy like most at this times.

2019 Jun 15 12:44:14
Cheav Villa: បងពុទ្ធី និងវិធូរ ខ្ញុំកូណាមិនបានជួបគ្នា និងទាក់ទងគ្នាទេ ប៉ុន្មានខែចុងក្រោយនេះ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jun 15 12:42:16
Cheav Villa: ថ្វាយបង្គំព្រះអង្គ  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jun 15 04:21:08
Johann: Nyom Villa. All fine? Nyoms fellows, like Nyom Buddhi... havn't been seen since longer. All fine with friends and family?

2019 Jun 10 04:05:23
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jun 10 01:47:04
Johann: Sadhu, Sadhu

2019 Jun 10 01:28:53
Khemakumara: May all have a fruitful waxing moon Uposatha!

2019 Jun 10 01:26:44
Khemakumara: Silena sugatiṁ yanti. Through virtue they go to a good destination.  Silena bhoga-sampadā.  Through virtue is wealth attained.  Silena nibbutiṁ yanti. Through virtue they go to Unbinding.  Tasmā silaṁ visodhaye. Therefore we should purify our virtue.

2019 Jun 06 14:52:24
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ kana,  Bhante. The wound heals fast and good.

2019 Jun 06 13:46:02
Johann: Bhante is fine, at least better?

2019 Jun 05 11:53:33
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jun 05 05:19:35
Johann: "N'atthi santi param sukham", there is no peace equal the hail of release

2019 Jun 04 10:25:51
Johann: Nyom Villa

2019 Jun 04 05:13:11
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jun 02 12:03:42
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Jun 02 00:29:09
Johann: May all enjoy the bliss of the fruitful observing of the Uposatha

2019 May 31 14:40:02
Cheav Villa: សាធុ​ សាធុ  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 31 13:47:09
Johann: Sadhu and Anumodana Nyom.

2019 May 31 12:40:14
Cheav Villa: សូមអោយព្រះអង្គឆាប់ជាសះស្បើយ  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 31 12:39:05
Cheav Villa: ព្រះអង្គKhemakumara ត្រូវបានពុទ្ធបរិស័ទនិមន្តទៅគ្លីនីកនៅជិតវត្តកាលពីម៉ោង​2 និងបានវះកាត់ព្យាបាល រួចត្រឡប់ទៅវត្ត

2019 May 31 12:36:20
Cheav Villa: ថ្វាយបង្គំ​ ព្រះ​អង្គ​ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 29 09:03:01
Johann: Had overseen Bhante here. Bhante Ariyadhammika  _/\_

2019 May 29 02:19:33
Khemakumara: Bhante Johann  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 28 04:18:48
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 27 10:03:55
Johann: Much in German, Nyom, currently. Atma will try to translate as much as possible, step by step.

2019 May 26 03:04:21
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 26 03:04:06
Cheav Villa: សាធុ​

2019 May 26 01:02:17
Johann: Sadhu

2019 May 26 00:44:22
Khemakumara: May all have a meritful Uposatha day. Meeting some good friends (kalyanamitta) and som(e) sil(a) សំម សីល!

2019 May 24 14:13:29
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2019 May 24 13:28:52
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 May 24 05:23:33
Johann: Venerable

2019 May 24 05:22:57
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Johann

2019 May 24 02:08:29
Johann: Nyom Moritz, Nyom Villa.

2019 May 24 01:55:56
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 24 01:54:14
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2019 May 24 01:49:43
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 May 24 01:06:04
Johann: Venerable Ariyadhammika  _/\_

2019 May 20 04:14:26
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 20 01:31:27
Johann:  _/\_ Bhante Indannano

2019 May 19 11:28:39
Khemakumara: Nyom Cheav Villa

2019 May 19 11:27:48
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Johann  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 May 18 23:55:08
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 May 18 10:34:49
amanaki: Thank you Johann  _/\_

2019 May 18 09:59:33
Johann: Nyom Amanaki. Mudita that you may have possible found what searched for on a special day.

2019 May 18 09:24:56
Maria:  _/\_

2019 May 18 09:24:35
Maria: werter Bhante!

2019 May 18 09:22:43
Johann: Nyom Mizi

2019 May 18 09:21:31
Johann: Nyom Sophorn, Nyom Villa... may all here but also there rejoice in own and others goodness.

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Author Topic: [Q&A] Confusion about the equal value, priority, of the single 5 precepts  (Read 59 times)

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Online Johann

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[Q&A] Confusion about the equal value of the single 5 precepts

Quote from: Upasaka Angus at BSE
I'm confused about the seemingly irrational prioritization or vagueness (?) relating to the “3rd precept” and 5th precept of the 5 precepts

I am confused why in many versions of the 5 precepts I have encountered that the 5th precept is seemingly beneficial about "refraining from intoxicating drinks and drugs which lead to carelessness." but compared to this the 3rd precept is seemingly only about "refraining from sexual misconduct" or "refraining from sensual misconduct".

It seems to me one is to refrain from the use of intoxicating substances but sexual activity of some sort is permitted? Why is some sexual activity permitted but no use of intoxicants?

I've been confused about the 5 precepts because to me it seems possible that in some instances one can cause oneself more suffering through engaging in sexual activity than through using intoxicating substances e.g. a) if I engaged in an all day oral-sex marathon compared to b) if I for pleasure went into the garden and picked 2 leaves of Melissa officinalis and made cold-brewed tea with those 2 leaves using rainwater that I had collected (brewing time 2 minutes) and had a sip of that tea.

To my knowledge option b) would be less suffering for me but wouldn't I be breaking the 5th precept ("refraining from intoxicants") if I did option b)? but if I chose option a) then according to some interpretations I would be keeping the 3rd precept ("refraining from sexual misconduct") but to me it seems I would be suffering more?

So why would it according to some interpretations of the 5 precepts seemingly be possible to keep the 5 precepts but seemingly cause myself more suffering than breaking that interpretation of the 5 precepts and choosing option b) and seemingly suffering less?

Even if the 3rd precept is interpreted as meaning "refraining from sensual misconduct" then what does that mean regarding what sexual activity one is to refrain from besides the "prohibited sexual acts" mentioned in the suttas? It seems that there would still be the "irrational prioritization" I described with option a) and option b) if "sensual misconduct" is defined only as the sexual acts that are explicitly prohibited as written in the suttas.

If "sensual misconduct" means something more than the sexual acts that are explicitly prohibited in the suttas then what does it mean? It seems vague (?).

Why isn't the "3rd precept" of the 5 precepts "I undertake the precept to refrain from sexual activity."?

Venerable members of the Sangha,
walking in front Fellows in leading the holly life.

  _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

Venerable fellows,

In Respect of the Triple Gems, Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, in Respect of the Elders of the community  _/\_ , my person to share a question and investigate it. Please, may all knowledgeable Venerables and Dhammika, out of compassion, correct my person, if something is not correct and fill also graps, if something is missing.

Valued Upasaka, Upasika, Aramika(inis),
dear Readers and Visitors,

Householder Angus, interested,

 *sgift*


- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

first of all, precepts, as a means of harmlessness and therefore freedom of remorse, which is required to gain concentration, wisdom and release, has layers, starting by the most outwardly, keeping conventions in relationships outwardly, are then observed in more and more refined stages, turning more inwardly. Only once ones own mind and it's quality is known, precepts become non-hypocritical in all aspects and only if the Dhamma has been realiced, precepts become naturally.

The five precepts focus is that of a worldling to possible arrive at the path at lifetime or to gain good next existance, and the path of Dhamma is actually the observance of eight precepts , at least part-time, observing the Brahma-caria, abstaining from sense-pleasures, beginning with the Uposatha on Uposatha days and permanent for Yogies. The eight are the obsevances of a Dhammika , Upasaka, Upasika, real insiders.

For learning to observe precepts, one may take on this talk given: Obsering the (5) precepts - Einhalten der (5) Tugendregeln

A person outwardly the Dhamma-Vinaya (not instructed with the good Dhamma) might observe what ever precepts good for his particulary relationships, but this virtue is seldom the virtue of the Noble Ones and merely always hypocritical, taking side for own interests and own relations for gains.

The first stage is that of a faith-follower, simply using them as no-go by faith, as far and as often he remembers them, to make decitions. He trust that the 6 senses and it's objects are not real, no refuge and therefore harming on their sake would not have much value.

The second person is that of a Dhamma-follower, who understands by logic that the six senses and objects are not real, no refuge, and so follows likewise the first person.

Only the stream enter, one who has actually realized that the senses and there objects, and all phenomenas arising related (feeling, touch...) to them, are not real, no refuge, not satifying, subject of decay, not worthy to give into, is a person with purified virtue, keeps precepts out of understanding. Yet he still might break in not fatal amout out of affect-actions, quickly see the fault, not hide them, pardon for them, and walk on.

Only an Arahat has perfect virtue since he has not only abound holding on things, but also no more taking on them at first place.

On that matter my person had given more extended explainings in a requested Dhammatalk: Perfect virtue . (one may feel given to take birth, an account, to access)

[Let my person continue here later for now.]

Now let us look on the 3 prectept, which starts by not harming societies harmony, yet it is a society that nevertheless engages in sexuality. By indulging in the sense-pleasure without unfare trade, without harming the partner, without acting disturbing and fear increasing for society and others, it is enought at this point. Don't forget that intercourse means actually "marriage" and taking on responsibilities, having caused relationship. On a more refined stage, one that abstains from sensual pleasures, it becomes a matter of Brahmacariya, holy life, and also here are stages, seven counted by the Buddha, ending at the last unvirtuose life for the sake of heavenly unification:

AN 7.47: Methuna Sutta — The Discourse on Coupling
The Buddha explains that the bondage of sexuality is not just a matter of sexual intercourse. In this discourse he describe a certain Brahman the seven levels of bondage out of drive for unification.

This practice beyond just physical intercourses is that of one having reached the path to once-returner till Arahatship. Even within this seven stages, there are many aspects, only seen by one knowing mind. Engaging in normal sozialisation is also a-brahmacariya.

Now the same counts for indoxication, the 5th precept, which cause heedlessness or lack of shame and fear of wrongdoing. The pleasure of indoxicating, in and of itself, is not really that bad, but the actions which follow easy can be very harmfull. For oneself indoxication has the result that being never respected by others, that it cause stupidy and lazyness, leading to poorness in all aspects.

It starts by taking means that cause lose of moral shame, alcohol, certain drugs penetrating the body via mouth, blood or beath. Physical indoxication that causes heedlessness, lack of conscious. Intensive indulgence in sense pleasures, by the strong addiction, can cause heedlessness as well, thinking on stealing, killing... for the sake of strong beloved sense pleasure. Only if sense-desire has overcome, all indoxications, causing more or lesser shamelessness, are abound.

On the most refined level there are the three indoxications:

  • indoxication with youth
  • indoxication with health
  • indoxication with life


As long one is drunken in not seeing the first Noble truth, aging, sickness and death, the dangers and meaningless grasping after senses and there objects, one will not be perfect in leading the holy life, Brahmacariya.

Seeing now that there are so many stages and aspects, it's hard to distinguish and compare the levels of virtue beyound the three levels of still attached to sensuality, abound sensuality, and abound all desires for the world of all senses.

One possible way to distinguish those levels are the five kind of beings and six kinds in the world:

  • virtue of a worldling heading downwardly
  • virtue of a worldling heading upwardly
  • virtue of a streamwinner
  • virtue of aonce-returner
  • virtue of a no-returner
  • virtue of an Arahat


Vipassana starts with observing Silas, body, speech, and it's realted intentions. One who observes Silas serious in daily life, following the pattern given in the teachings to the Buddhas son, Rahula, is sure to arrive at Unbond and release.

Now, if having already taken refuge, taken precepts, it's good to express encouragement, possible to take refuge on it, to take Silas by heart on it, as well.
Sīlena sugatiṃ yanti.
  Through virtue they go to a good bourn.

Sīlena bhoga-sampadā.
  Through virtue is wealth attained.

Sīlena nibbutiṃ yanti.
  Through virtue they go to Liberation.

Tasmā sīlaṃ visodhaye.
  Therefore we should purify our virtue.


Anumodana punna kusala
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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