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Talkbox

2019 Sep 14 01:20:37
Johann: (no problem at all) A blessed and meritful conducted Uposatha those observing it today.

2019 Sep 13 16:07:47
Cheav Villa: សុំទោស _/\_

2019 Sep 13 16:06:36
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2019 Sep 13 15:53:17
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Varado _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 13 15:51:32
Johann:  _/\_ Bante Varado. Nyom Morotz, Nyom Villa.

2019 Sep 13 15:50:03
Cheav Villa: Master Morit  :) _/\_

2019 Sep 13 15:47:31
Moritz: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Varado _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Johann _/\_ Bong Villa

2019 Sep 13 00:35:39
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 12 20:36:10
Johann: Beyound birth, stand, age, gender, lay or in robes.

2019 Sep 12 20:33:57
Johann: No way for one not gained relation at time.

2019 Sep 12 20:33:01
Johann: Beings, indeed, find only that what they are looking for, and seldom, very seldom, it's related upwatdly, even release in unbond.

2019 Sep 12 17:35:22
Johann: (Delayed) Bhante.

2019 Sep 12 16:16:22
Khemakumara: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Johann

2019 Sep 12 16:16:03
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Varado

2019 Sep 12 10:25:12
Cheav Villa: សូមសុខ សុវត្ថិភាពតាមផ្លូវ _/\_

2019 Sep 12 10:14:50
Chanroth:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ខ្ញុំទៅ v.n​ ដេីម្បីព្យាបាលជម្ងឺក្រពះ របស់ម្ដាយខ្ញុំ

2019 Sep 12 09:45:43
Johann: Bhante. May Bhante look at his Kuti .

2019 Sep 12 09:02:52
Varado: Thanks for fixing that. May you be well.

2019 Sep 12 08:41:30
Varado: Is the Glossary still available for download?

2019 Sep 12 08:26:31
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhate _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ How is Bhante's health?  _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 09 13:03:42
Johann:  _/\_ Bhante Varado

2019 Sep 07 11:49:16
Vithou:  _/\_

2019 Sep 07 09:12:43
Chanroth:  :( :( :(

2019 Sep 07 09:11:31
Chanroth:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 07 09:11:27
Chanroth:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 07 01:50:59
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 07 00:53:49
Johann: A meritful Uposatha observance those who undertake it today.

2019 Sep 06 11:58:54
Johann:  _/\_ Bhante. Might have been an auto mail (and not so importand). He could share it in his kuti, if wishing.

2019 Sep 06 11:53:04
Yocakkhuma: There was an email in German I didn't get the meaning..?!

2019 Sep 06 11:49:40
Yocakkhuma: Hi everyone, may all beings be happy

2019 Sep 06 08:29:17
Ieng Puthy: ករុណា ព្រះអង្គ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 06 08:08:29
Johann: Atma's health is dhammata, nothing special, Nyom.

2019 Sep 06 08:06:42
Johann: Nyom Buddhi. Mudita that she could access again.

2019 Sep 06 07:41:15
Ieng Puthy:  _/\_How is Bhante health?

2019 Sep 06 07:35:57
Ieng Puthy:  _/\_ អរព្រះគុណ ព្រះអង្គ Vandami Bhante

2019 Sep 06 07:32:24
Ieng Puthy: Chum Reap Sour   _/\_Mr Moritz

2019 Sep 06 07:30:55
Ieng Puthy: ករុណាសូមថ្វាយបង្គំុ Khemakumara Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 06 07:21:17
Ieng Puthy: Vandami Bhante  _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 06 06:20:55
Johann: mudita

2019 Sep 06 06:01:57
Cheav Villa: Kana Prah Ang, She forgot username' password. And kana had sent her already about the info. _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 06 05:51:33
Johann: Did Nyom get the email? If any question, she may not hesitate to raise.

2019 Sep 06 04:55:56
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 06 04:49:44
Johann: It's like practicing Jhana. Importand to remember how to enter, how to leave.

2019 Sep 06 04:47:12
Johann: Ieng Puthy  :) Atma had send Nyom an email for her access datas.

2019 Sep 06 04:39:34
Cheav Villa: She forgot username's password _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 06 04:35:33
Cheav Villa: Kana had sent her email and password already, she could not accessible _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 06 04:18:55
Johann: Good. Atma thinks it's easier to make it new and then send an email to Nyom Villa.

2019 Sep 06 04:15:27
Johann: but Atma had send Nyom a PM once, right? Maybe, if Nyom gave her access, she can look into her PM's. again.

2019 Sep 06 04:13:41
Cheav Villa: Kana  _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2019 Sep 06 04:11:05
Johann: She can either use the link "forgot passwort" and will get an email. Or, if no access to email, Atma could make a new pass word. (My person thought so, that it got lost))

2019 Sep 06 03:07:38
Cheav Villa: Sister Puthy, in this morning asked Kana she forgot her login password into Sangham.net  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 06 03:06:19
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 06 01:50:10
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 06 01:45:46
Johann: A pleasing and meritful Uposatha, those observing it today.

2019 Sep 05 12:00:09
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2019 Sep 05 10:10:57
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Aug 30 03:50:22
Johann: Seams as if the rain leaves way to make a round

2019 Aug 30 02:34:32
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 30 01:33:20
Johann: and may those observing it today enjoy the rest in doing merits as well

2019 Aug 29 02:10:10
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 29 01:58:34
Johann: An admirable New-moon Uposatha observing all those conducting it today.

2019 Aug 25 15:07:04
Vithou:  _/\_

2019 Aug 23 06:28:14
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 23 06:06:18
Johann: At least here in the vally, people celebrate the Uposatha today. May it be blessed and meritful spend by those taking part.

2019 Aug 22 12:53:30
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2019 Aug 22 10:04:46
Moritz: Chom reap leah _/\_

2019 Aug 22 10:01:05
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Bong Villa _/\_

2019 Aug 21 10:59:03
Johann: May Sukha come to fulfillment, Nyom.

2019 Aug 21 10:44:55
Moritz: Chom reap leah, Bhante _/\_ I have some other stuff to do now and will come back later. _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 21 09:15:49
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2019 Aug 21 08:22:24
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 20 11:46:26
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante  _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 20 11:25:55
Johann: Nyom Villa

2019 Aug 16 12:51:30
Johann: Does she have any technical difficulty? Just because such could be.

2019 Aug 16 12:50:14
Johann: Nyom Anneliese

2019 Aug 15 04:29:20
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Sadhu

2019 Aug 15 03:49:34
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 15 00:36:44
Johann: A blessed full moon Upusatha and much joy in merits

2019 Aug 11 14:35:01
Mohan Gnanathilake: Dear The Most Reverend Samanera Johann, Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka! Sehr ehrwürdiger Samanera Johann, Dhamma Grüße an Sie aus Sri Lanka!

2019 Aug 11 14:32:29
Mohan Gnanathilake: Dear The Most Reverend Samanera Johann, Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!

2019 Aug 11 14:14:46
Johann: Nyom Mohan

2019 Aug 11 07:32:16
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 11 01:15:57
Johann: Nothing much burdensome this time, Nyom Villa.

2019 Aug 10 16:42:46
Cheav Villa: How is Bhante health?  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 10 16:28:44
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 10 15:04:44
Johann: Nyom Vithou, Nyom Villa

2019 Aug 08 02:03:56
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 08 01:32:20
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ sadhu

2019 Aug 08 00:29:15
Johann: A blessed Uposatha-Sila-observation day and much recoicing with ones beauty investments and gains.

2019 Aug 03 01:35:23
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2019 Aug 03 01:09:55
Moritz: (or morning...)

2019 Aug 03 01:09:31
Moritz: Good evening, Bhante _/\_

2019 Aug 02 08:54:49
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 02 07:30:06
Johann: Once really going for refuge, such is ensured.

2019 Aug 02 07:28:16
Johann: Sadhu, Sadhu

2019 Aug 02 07:04:04
Cheav Villa: May all suffering being healed under the refuge of the three gems _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 02 05:36:31
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2019 Aug 02 05:28:41
Moritz: (going to sleep now) _/\_

2019 Aug 02 05:28:24
Moritz: _/\_

2019 Aug 02 05:28:21
Moritz: Good morning, Bhante, bong Villa!

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Author Topic: [Q&A] Confusion about the equal value, priority, of the single 5 precepts  (Read 6806 times)

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Offline Johann

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[Q&A] Confusion about the equal value of the single 5 precepts

Quote from: Upasaka Angus at BSE
I'm confused about the seemingly irrational prioritization or vagueness (?) relating to the “3rd precept” and 5th precept of the 5 precepts

I am confused why in many versions of the 5 precepts I have encountered that the 5th precept is seemingly beneficial about "refraining from intoxicating drinks and drugs which lead to carelessness." but compared to this the 3rd precept is seemingly only about "refraining from sexual misconduct" or "refraining from sensual misconduct".

It seems to me one is to refrain from the use of intoxicating substances but sexual activity of some sort is permitted? Why is some sexual activity permitted but no use of intoxicants?

I've been confused about the 5 precepts because to me it seems possible that in some instances one can cause oneself more suffering through engaging in sexual activity than through using intoxicating substances e.g. a) if I engaged in an all day oral-sex marathon compared to b) if I for pleasure went into the garden and picked 2 leaves of Melissa officinalis and made cold-brewed tea with those 2 leaves using rainwater that I had collected (brewing time 2 minutes) and had a sip of that tea.

To my knowledge option b) would be less suffering for me but wouldn't I be breaking the 5th precept ("refraining from intoxicants") if I did option b)? but if I chose option a) then according to some interpretations I would be keeping the 3rd precept ("refraining from sexual misconduct") but to me it seems I would be suffering more?

So why would it according to some interpretations of the 5 precepts seemingly be possible to keep the 5 precepts but seemingly cause myself more suffering than breaking that interpretation of the 5 precepts and choosing option b) and seemingly suffering less?

Even if the 3rd precept is interpreted as meaning "refraining from sensual misconduct" then what does that mean regarding what sexual activity one is to refrain from besides the "prohibited sexual acts" mentioned in the suttas? It seems that there would still be the "irrational prioritization" I described with option a) and option b) if "sensual misconduct" is defined only as the sexual acts that are explicitly prohibited as written in the suttas.

If "sensual misconduct" means something more than the sexual acts that are explicitly prohibited in the suttas then what does it mean? It seems vague (?).

Why isn't the "3rd precept" of the 5 precepts "I undertake the precept to refrain from sexual activity."?

Venerable members of the Sangha,
walking in front Fellows in leading the holly life.

  _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

Venerable fellows,

In Respect of the Triple Gems, Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, in Respect of the Elders of the community  _/\_ , my person to share a question and investigate it. Please, may all knowledgeable Venerables and Dhammika, out of compassion, correct my person, if something is not correct and fill also graps, if something is missing.

Valued Upasaka, Upasika, Aramika(inis),
dear Readers and Visitors,

Householder Angus, interested,

 *sgift*


- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

first of all, precepts, as a means of harmlessness and therefore freedom of remorse, which is required to gain concentration, wisdom and release, has layers, starting by the most outwardly, keeping conventions in relationships outwardly, are then observed in more and more refined stages, turning more inwardly. Only once ones own mind and it's quality is known, precepts become non-hypocritical in all aspects and only if the Dhamma has been realiced, precepts become naturally.

The five precepts focus is that of a worldling to possible arrive at the path at lifetime or to gain good next existance, and the path of Dhamma is actually the observance of eight precepts , at least part-time, observing the Brahma-caria, abstaining from sense-pleasures, beginning with the Uposatha on Uposatha days and permanent for Yogies. The eight are the obsevances of a Dhammika , Upasaka, Upasika, real insiders.

For learning to observe precepts, one may take on this talk given: Obsering the (5) precepts - Einhalten der (5) Tugendregeln

A person outwardly the Dhamma-Vinaya (not instructed with the good Dhamma) might observe what ever precepts good for his particulary relationships, but this virtue is seldom the virtue of the Noble Ones and merely always hypocritical, taking side for own interests and own relations for gains.

The first stage is that of a faith-follower, simply using them as no-go by faith, as far and as often he remembers them, to make decitions. He trust that the 6 senses and it's objects are not real, no refuge and therefore harming on their sake would not have much value.

The second person is that of a Dhamma-follower, who understands by logic that the six senses and objects are not real, no refuge, and so follows likewise the first person.

Only the stream enter, one who has actually realized that the senses and there objects, and all phenomenas arising related (feeling, touch...) to them, are not real, no refuge, not satifying, subject of decay, not worthy to give into, is a person with purified virtue, keeps precepts out of understanding. Yet he still might break in not fatal amout out of affect-actions, quickly see the fault, not hide them, pardon for them, and walk on.

Only an Arahat has perfect virtue since he has not only abound holding on things, but also no more taking on them at first place.

On that matter my person had given more extended explainings in a requested Dhammatalk: Perfect virtue . (one may feel given to take birth, an account, to access)

[Let my person continue here later for now.]

Now let us look on the 3 prectept, which starts by not harming societies harmony, yet it is a society that nevertheless engages in sexuality. By indulging in the sense-pleasure without unfare trade, without harming the partner, without acting disturbing and fear increasing for society and others, it is enought at this point. Don't forget that intercourse means actually "marriage" and taking on responsibilities, having caused relationship. On a more refined stage, one that abstains from sensual pleasures, it becomes a matter of Brahmacariya, holy life, and also here are stages, seven counted by the Buddha, ending at the last unvirtuose life for the sake of heavenly unification:

AN 7.47: Methuna Sutta — The Discourse on Coupling
The Buddha explains that the bondage of sexuality is not just a matter of sexual intercourse. In this discourse he describe a certain Brahman the seven levels of bondage out of drive for unification.

This practice beyond just physical intercourses is that of one having reached the path to once-returner till Arahatship. Even within this seven stages, there are many aspects, only seen by one knowing mind. Engaging in normal sozialisation is also a-brahmacariya.

Now the same counts for indoxication, the 5th precept, which cause heedlessness or lack of shame and fear of wrongdoing. The pleasure of indoxicating, in and of itself, is not really that bad, but the actions which follow easy can be very harmfull. For oneself indoxication has the result that being never respected by others, that it cause stupidy and lazyness, leading to poorness in all aspects.

It starts by taking means that cause lose of moral shame, alcohol, certain drugs penetrating the body via mouth, blood or beath. Physical indoxication that causes heedlessness, lack of conscious. Intensive indulgence in sense pleasures, by the strong addiction, can cause heedlessness as well, thinking on stealing, killing... for the sake of strong beloved sense pleasure. Only if sense-desire has overcome, all indoxications, causing more or lesser shamelessness, are abound.

On the most refined level there are the three indoxications:

  • indoxication with youth
  • indoxication with health
  • indoxication with life


As long one is drunken in not seeing the first Noble truth, aging, sickness and death, the dangers and meaningless grasping after senses and there objects, one will not be perfect in leading the holy life, Brahmacariya.

Seeing now that there are so many stages and aspects, it's hard to distinguish and compare the levels of virtue beyound the three levels of still attached to sensuality, abound sensuality, and abound all desires for the world of all senses.

One possible way to distinguish those levels are the five kind of beings and six kinds in the world:

  • virtue of a worldling heading downwardly
  • virtue of a worldling heading upwardly
  • virtue of a streamwinner
  • virtue of aonce-returner
  • virtue of a no-returner
  • virtue of an Arahat


Vipassana starts with observing Silas, body, speech, and it's realted intentions. One who observes Silas serious in daily life, following the pattern given in the teachings to the Buddhas son, Rahula, is sure to arrive at Unbond and release.

Now, if having already taken refuge, taken precepts, it's good to express encouragement, possible to take refuge on it, to take Silas by heart on it, as well.
Sīlena sugatiṃ yanti.
  Through virtue they go to a good bourn.

Sīlena bhoga-sampadā.
  Through virtue is wealth attained.

Sīlena nibbutiṃ yanti.
  Through virtue they go to Liberation.

Tasmā sīlaṃ visodhaye.
  Therefore we should purify our virtue.


Anumodana punna kusala
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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