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Talkbox

2020 Jan 19 10:20:11
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2020 Jan 19 10:03:16
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 18 08:14:54
Moritz: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 18 05:57:52
Johann: A blessed and fruitful Sila day

2020 Jan 17 19:19:18
Moritz: Chom reap leah _/\_

2020 Jan 17 18:37:01
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2020 Jan 17 18:14:15
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2020 Jan 17 13:39:36
Sophorn: Many greetings to everyone,

2020 Jan 17 13:39:19
Sophorn:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 17 10:29:19
Johann: "so, now I go up and clear the area a little, make some merits, and I will not share my merits, with anybody..."  ^-^

2020 Jan 17 08:49:11
Chanroth: ធ្វើអាស្រមហើយចេញពីរសេចក្ដីល្អ ធ្វើអ្វីដើម្បីខ្លួល្អជាង

2020 Jan 17 08:45:08
Chanroth: សូមលាហើយ

2020 Jan 17 08:33:16
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 17 06:56:27
Johann: A blessed and fruitful Uposatha, those observing it today.

2020 Jan 17 06:45:45
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2020 Jan 17 06:44:49
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 16 23:01:31
Moritz: Mr. Lew _/\_

2020 Jan 15 14:16:00
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 15 11:15:29
Moritz: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 15 11:12:01
Johann: Nyom

2020 Jan 15 10:24:02
Cheav Villa: Master Moritz _/\_

2020 Jan 15 10:21:50
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2020 Jan 15 10:11:56
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 12 22:22:36
Moritz: Chom reap leah _/\_

2020 Jan 12 22:04:02
Moritz: _/\_

2020 Jan 12 21:34:30
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 12 21:31:02
Johann: Sokh chomreoun, may happiness come to fullfillment, all

2020 Jan 12 21:27:15
Cheav Villa: Master Moritz _/\_ Visitor _/\_

2020 Jan 12 21:26:54
Cheav Villa:  Kana Bhante _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2020 Jan 12 21:26:06
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 12 21:24:21
Moritz: Visitor _/\_

2020 Jan 12 21:24:09
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2020 Jan 12 21:23:59
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 12 21:23:50
Johann: Good on working isn't a bad reservation. Sokh chomreoun

2020 Jan 12 21:16:12
Cheav Villa: I kana in working conditions in the ministry  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 12 17:24:45
Johann: How is Nyom Villa doing? Seems as if more reserved

2020 Jan 11 21:30:11
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 11 21:27:10
Johann: On the other side it's just visible for Aramika, so also fine to leave it as it is.

2020 Jan 11 21:18:06
Johann: but possible good to change it, since looking of course strange

2020 Jan 11 21:17:02
Johann: The visitor account, since enail needed, has Atmas email, yes. Nothing wrong, Nyom.

2020 Jan 11 21:10:13
Cheav Villa: Mr. Visitor is using Bhante mail on Sangham ^-^ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 11 17:28:39
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante

2020 Jan 11 17:19:29
Johann: Well then. Mudita. And to use old account is also no problem, or a new one.

2020 Jan 11 17:13:25
Visitor:  *sgift* Will return soon. will share one from lot.  :) Stay healthy. Be happy.

2020 Jan 11 17:06:13
Johann: Sure, why not? An also sure that Atma will try what ever possible that Nyom-Deva would take on existance where Dhamma can completely comprehended. My Nyom do as he feels fit and inspired.

2020 Jan 11 17:03:02
Visitor: For I am out of community and practice to be independent too -- decided when couldn't find Gem(liberated one, buddha, venerable).

2020 Jan 11 17:00:13
Visitor: If I share one of those practices, will uncle allow that? Will uncle give way to me to give as a 'Visitor'? Even when it's out of community.

2020 Jan 11 16:57:53
Johann: It's importand to see that liberation is possible, and people having gained independency are met = Savaka Sangha

2020 Jan 11 16:55:26
Johann: It's importand, aside of the deva-messangers, birth, sickness, aging death, to meet the Buddha, Arahat, Samana, so that real Saddha may arise. Books hardly can provide such "it's not just a story"

2020 Jan 11 16:50:04
Visitor: Practice leads to experience -coming slowly-2 me already. Did uncle find any Gems(Ven. Buddha) to associate with?

2020 Jan 11 16:45:42
Johann: Only by practicing and association with the Gems can Dhamma be gained. Consuming 1000 book wouldn't help

2020 Jan 11 16:43:02
Johann: What does one, seeing his decay, keep him from sharing?

2020 Jan 11 16:41:31
Johann: Giving ways to let others give is also a-maccariya

2020 Jan 11 16:39:42
Johann: And books are lasting? Sharing about oldage, sickness and death is teaching the 1 Noble truth very real, or?

2020 Jan 11 16:35:58
Visitor: What does old uncle want to offer when he is also impermanent? Dhamma-it's already in books! Experience-it will come soon to me too.

2020 Jan 11 16:30:29
Johann: If needing something, just let it be known (any language

2020 Jan 11 16:29:50
Johann: Nyom unknown

2020 Jan 11 16:28:47
Visitor:  *thumb* :-\ :( ;-) *gift*

2020 Jan 11 08:13:55
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2020 Jan 11 08:11:25
Moritz: Oh, I just wanted to write something to you, Bong Villa. But now have to go, driving taxi. ^-^ Later. _/\_ Chom reap leah

2020 Jan 11 08:05:56
Cheav Villa: Master Moritz _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 11 07:46:49
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2020 Jan 10 19:57:45
Johann: Bhante

2020 Jan 10 19:37:57
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante

2020 Jan 10 16:11:19
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 10 12:07:13
Johann: Sokh chomreoun Nyom

2020 Jan 10 11:34:53
Moritz: Chom reap leah _/\_

2020 Jan 10 11:08:47
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2020 Jan 10 11:00:22
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 10 06:05:50
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 10 05:02:29
Johann: May those keeping the full moon Uposatha today, spend an auspicious time engaged in merits

2020 Jan 09 20:17:28
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 09 20:07:28
Moritz: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 09 18:57:51
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Those who have confidence in the Awakened One have confidence in what is supreme; and for those with confidence in the supreme, supreme is the result.

2020 Jan 09 17:33:14
Cheav Villa:  :) _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 09 16:13:20
Johann: No problem at all.

2020 Jan 09 16:12:52
Johann: Atma wrote: Oh, master Moritz celebrates his Birthday today. And if remembering right, just one day before Mastress Sophorn.

2020 Jan 09 16:11:21
Johann:  :)

2020 Jan 09 16:10:58
Johann: oh that is bad: Nyom needs to cite Thor Twai bpngum 5 times

2020 Jan 09 16:09:02
Cheav Villa: I kana sorry for deleted <.I.> _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 09 16:05:44
Cheav Villa: All the best wishes to you Master Moritz  _/\_ :D

2020 Jan 09 08:29:01
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 09 07:08:24
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Sadhu

2020 Jan 09 06:16:07
Johann: A blessed Uposatha those who maintain it today

2020 Jan 09 04:50:31
Khemakumara: Nyom

2020 Jan 08 22:06:08
Cheav Villa: Master Moritz _/\_

2020 Jan 08 21:45:09
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2020 Jan 08 20:55:46
Khemakumara: Nyom

2020 Jan 08 20:47:42
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 08 18:48:15
Johann: Bhante

2020 Jan 08 18:17:17
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 08 15:14:05
Johann: Nyom

2020 Jan 08 14:02:20
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 08 08:04:30
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 07 21:10:49
Johann: Sadhu, Sadhu

2020 Jan 07 21:05:36
saddhamma: I hope, Bhante Johann has regained some strength and that Bhante's health is improving.

2020 Jan 07 17:50:15
Johann: 3 robes (2 and 1 two-layer as it may be cold) and if the Sangha, out of compassion would give full ordination before leaving, this would be outstanding blessing for the Sangha, counting a non-returner in their community..

2020 Jan 07 17:45:55
Johann: Plastic robe is also dangerous it not having a proper, and to have some light proper shoes along the way isn't a faul for hard paths through the burning lands.

2020 Jan 07 17:42:18
Johann: It'[ good if both strong Asthmatics have enought and right inhalation spray with them, since strong fires will come soon, althought they feel great for now.

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Author Topic: [Q&A] Confusion about the equal value, priority, of the single 5 precepts  (Read 7108 times)

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Online Johann

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[Q&A] Confusion about the equal value of the single 5 precepts

Quote from: Upasaka Angus at BSE
I'm confused about the seemingly irrational prioritization or vagueness (?) relating to the “3rd precept” and 5th precept of the 5 precepts

I am confused why in many versions of the 5 precepts I have encountered that the 5th precept is seemingly beneficial about "refraining from intoxicating drinks and drugs which lead to carelessness." but compared to this the 3rd precept is seemingly only about "refraining from sexual misconduct" or "refraining from sensual misconduct".

It seems to me one is to refrain from the use of intoxicating substances but sexual activity of some sort is permitted? Why is some sexual activity permitted but no use of intoxicants?

I've been confused about the 5 precepts because to me it seems possible that in some instances one can cause oneself more suffering through engaging in sexual activity than through using intoxicating substances e.g. a) if I engaged in an all day oral-sex marathon compared to b) if I for pleasure went into the garden and picked 2 leaves of Melissa officinalis and made cold-brewed tea with those 2 leaves using rainwater that I had collected (brewing time 2 minutes) and had a sip of that tea.

To my knowledge option b) would be less suffering for me but wouldn't I be breaking the 5th precept ("refraining from intoxicants") if I did option b)? but if I chose option a) then according to some interpretations I would be keeping the 3rd precept ("refraining from sexual misconduct") but to me it seems I would be suffering more?

So why would it according to some interpretations of the 5 precepts seemingly be possible to keep the 5 precepts but seemingly cause myself more suffering than breaking that interpretation of the 5 precepts and choosing option b) and seemingly suffering less?

Even if the 3rd precept is interpreted as meaning "refraining from sensual misconduct" then what does that mean regarding what sexual activity one is to refrain from besides the "prohibited sexual acts" mentioned in the suttas? It seems that there would still be the "irrational prioritization" I described with option a) and option b) if "sensual misconduct" is defined only as the sexual acts that are explicitly prohibited as written in the suttas.

If "sensual misconduct" means something more than the sexual acts that are explicitly prohibited in the suttas then what does it mean? It seems vague (?).

Why isn't the "3rd precept" of the 5 precepts "I undertake the precept to refrain from sexual activity."?

Venerable members of the Sangha,
walking in front Fellows in leading the holly life.

  _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

Venerable fellows,

In Respect of the Triple Gems, Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, in Respect of the Elders of the community  _/\_ , my person to share a question and investigate it. Please, may all knowledgeable Venerables and Dhammika, out of compassion, correct my person, if something is not correct and fill also graps, if something is missing.

Valued Upasaka, Upasika, Aramika(inis),
dear Readers and Visitors,

Householder Angus, interested,

 *sgift*


- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

first of all, precepts, as a means of harmlessness and therefore freedom of remorse, which is required to gain concentration, wisdom and release, has layers, starting by the most outwardly, keeping conventions in relationships outwardly, are then observed in more and more refined stages, turning more inwardly. Only once ones own mind and it's quality is known, precepts become non-hypocritical in all aspects and only if the Dhamma has been realiced, precepts become naturally.

The five precepts focus is that of a worldling to possible arrive at the path at lifetime or to gain good next existance, and the path of Dhamma is actually the observance of eight precepts , at least part-time, observing the Brahma-caria, abstaining from sense-pleasures, beginning with the Uposatha on Uposatha days and permanent for Yogies. The eight are the obsevances of a Dhammika , Upasaka, Upasika, real insiders.

For learning to observe precepts, one may take on this talk given: Obsering the (5) precepts - Einhalten der (5) Tugendregeln

A person outwardly the Dhamma-Vinaya (not instructed with the good Dhamma) might observe what ever precepts good for his particulary relationships, but this virtue is seldom the virtue of the Noble Ones and merely always hypocritical, taking side for own interests and own relations for gains.

The first stage is that of a faith-follower, simply using them as no-go by faith, as far and as often he remembers them, to make decitions. He trust that the 6 senses and it's objects are not real, no refuge and therefore harming on their sake would not have much value.

The second person is that of a Dhamma-follower, who understands by logic that the six senses and objects are not real, no refuge, and so follows likewise the first person.

Only the stream enter, one who has actually realized that the senses and there objects, and all phenomenas arising related (feeling, touch...) to them, are not real, no refuge, not satifying, subject of decay, not worthy to give into, is a person with purified virtue, keeps precepts out of understanding. Yet he still might break in not fatal amout out of affect-actions, quickly see the fault, not hide them, pardon for them, and walk on.

Only an Arahat has perfect virtue since he has not only abound holding on things, but also no more taking on them at first place.

On that matter my person had given more extended explainings in a requested Dhammatalk: Perfect virtue . (one may feel given to take birth, an account, to access)

[Let my person continue here later for now.]

Now let us look on the 3 prectept, which starts by not harming societies harmony, yet it is a society that nevertheless engages in sexuality. By indulging in the sense-pleasure without unfare trade, without harming the partner, without acting disturbing and fear increasing for society and others, it is enought at this point. Don't forget that intercourse means actually "marriage" and taking on responsibilities, having caused relationship. On a more refined stage, one that abstains from sensual pleasures, it becomes a matter of Brahmacariya, holy life, and also here are stages, seven counted by the Buddha, ending at the last unvirtuose life for the sake of heavenly unification:

AN 7.47: Methuna Sutta — The Discourse on Coupling
The Buddha explains that the bondage of sexuality is not just a matter of sexual intercourse. In this discourse he describe a certain Brahman the seven levels of bondage out of drive for unification.

This practice beyond just physical intercourses is that of one having reached the path to once-returner till Arahatship. Even within this seven stages, there are many aspects, only seen by one knowing mind. Engaging in normal sozialisation is also a-brahmacariya.

Now the same counts for indoxication, the 5th precept, which cause heedlessness or lack of shame and fear of wrongdoing. The pleasure of indoxicating, in and of itself, is not really that bad, but the actions which follow easy can be very harmfull. For oneself indoxication has the result that being never respected by others, that it cause stupidy and lazyness, leading to poorness in all aspects.

It starts by taking means that cause lose of moral shame, alcohol, certain drugs penetrating the body via mouth, blood or beath. Physical indoxication that causes heedlessness, lack of conscious. Intensive indulgence in sense pleasures, by the strong addiction, can cause heedlessness as well, thinking on stealing, killing... for the sake of strong beloved sense pleasure. Only if sense-desire has overcome, all indoxications, causing more or lesser shamelessness, are abound.

On the most refined level there are the three indoxications:

  • indoxication with youth
  • indoxication with health
  • indoxication with life


As long one is drunken in not seeing the first Noble truth, aging, sickness and death, the dangers and meaningless grasping after senses and there objects, one will not be perfect in leading the holy life, Brahmacariya.

Seeing now that there are so many stages and aspects, it's hard to distinguish and compare the levels of virtue beyound the three levels of still attached to sensuality, abound sensuality, and abound all desires for the world of all senses.

One possible way to distinguish those levels are the five kind of beings and six kinds in the world:

  • virtue of a worldling heading downwardly
  • virtue of a worldling heading upwardly
  • virtue of a streamwinner
  • virtue of aonce-returner
  • virtue of a no-returner
  • virtue of an Arahat


Vipassana starts with observing Silas, body, speech, and it's realted intentions. One who observes Silas serious in daily life, following the pattern given in the teachings to the Buddhas son, Rahula, is sure to arrive at Unbond and release.

Now, if having already taken refuge, taken precepts, it's good to express encouragement, possible to take refuge on it, to take Silas by heart on it, as well.
Sīlena sugatiṃ yanti.
  Through virtue they go to a good bourn.

Sīlena bhoga-sampadā.
  Through virtue is wealth attained.

Sīlena nibbutiṃ yanti.
  Through virtue they go to Liberation.

Tasmā sīlaṃ visodhaye.
  Therefore we should purify our virtue.


Anumodana punna kusala
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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