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Talkbox

2019 Nov 14 22:46:22
Johann: Atma leaves the paranimmita-vasavatti deva and nimmanarati deva now to find good birth by themself, no more power left.

2019 Nov 14 22:00:48
Cheav Villa: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 14 21:39:00
Johann: Duties and Silas are words of same meaning, denoting "proper conduct and giving in ones relations where ne desires to have a good and safe stand"

2019 Nov 14 21:25:51
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 14 21:21:02
Johann: May all have good rest at the end of day, done ones duties or even a blessed done merits after that as well. My person is now off of energy and good to rest as well.

2019 Nov 14 13:43:11
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 14 10:35:51
Johann: Respecting the Devas one gains their respect and protection.

2019 Nov 14 10:34:40
Johann: Bhante. (Meawmane is a spirit from a Server in Bangkok)

2019 Nov 14 10:28:52
Khemakumara: Nyom Meawmane

2019 Nov 14 10:27:53
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante

2019 Nov 13 20:44:51
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 13 20:28:20
Johann: Bhante  _/\_ Nyom, Nyom

2019 Nov 13 13:19:14
Cheav Villa: Kana Bhante :) _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 13 11:54:18
Johann: Mahā (written), not moha (following civil transliteration of khmer, very unuseful, better following pali transliteration) "Deluded Wisdom Monastery" could be understood while "Great Wisdom Monastery"  :)

2019 Nov 13 10:22:14
Johann: mudita

2019 Nov 13 09:56:41
Cheav Villa: Kana now at Panha Moha Viheara, waiting for  Bhikkuni

2019 Nov 13 09:47:10
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 12 08:01:41
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 12 05:35:02
Khemakumara:  Sīlena nibbutiṁ yanti. Through virtue they go to Unbinding. May it be a fruit-and pathful Uposatha day.

2019 Nov 11 16:41:52
Varado: Happily indeed we live, we, for whom there is [nowhere] anything at all. We will feed on rapture like the Ābhassarā devas. Dh.v.200.

2019 Nov 11 11:40:45
Johann: Ven. Sirs  _/\_ (Kana trust that leave for some rest will not reduce Bhantes releasing joy here)

2019 Nov 11 11:13:48
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 11 11:06:19
Johann: May it be an auspicious end of the Vassa of the Noble ones, a deep Anapanasati day today, for all conducting the full moon uposatha today.

2019 Nov 11 06:00:43
Johann: " Happy/peaceful the area/custom of the Arahats, craving and wandering on having layed aside"?

2019 Nov 11 03:22:11
Johann: Of which would mean what, Lok Ta, if not wishing to use google or not given means?

2019 Nov 10 23:54:03
Varado: Sukhino vata arahanto taṇhā tesaṃ na vijjati _/\_

2019 Nov 10 19:51:07
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Ariyadhammika

2019 Nov 10 17:54:44
Johann: ភនតេ វ៉ាលិ

2019 Nov 10 14:42:47
Johann: Lok Ta  _/\_

2019 Nov 09 16:31:12
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  :) _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 09 16:25:14
Johann: May Nyom and all have a safe travel

2019 Nov 09 16:03:41
Cheav Villa: Kana and kids Plan to go to Aural tomorrow, will leave Phnom Penh at 5am  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 09 15:41:39
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 09 15:37:40
Johann: Bhante Ariyadhammica, Nyom Villa

2019 Nov 09 15:35:16
Johann: Sadhu

2019 Nov 09 14:56:15
Varado: Homage to the Noble Sangha _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 09 14:55:15
Varado: Blessed is the arising of Buddhas. Blessed is the explaining of the true teaching. Blessed is concord in the community of bhikkhus. Of those in concord, blessed is their practice of austerity.

2019 Nov 09 14:53:06
Johann: Ven Grandfather, Nyom Annaleana,

2019 Nov 09 01:57:47
Moritz: Vandami, Bhante Varado _/\_

2019 Nov 09 01:43:05
Varado: Pūjā ca pūjanīyānaṃ

2019 Nov 09 00:44:14
Johann: Worthy those on path or reached the aim

2019 Nov 08 22:36:29
Varado: Homage to those elder bhikkhus of long-standing who have long gone forth, the fathers and leaders of the Sangha. _/\_

2019 Nov 08 20:16:23
Johann: May the Venerables allow my persons leave, running out of battery.  _/\_

2019 Nov 08 20:09:51
Johann: Sadhu, Sadhu!

2019 Nov 08 20:09:14
Varado: Homage to Good Friends. For this is the entire holy life. _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 08 20:07:04
Varado: Homage to the Good Friends. For this is the entire holy life. _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 08 19:29:09
Varado: Thanks for summary. I send article on milk. Anything else?

2019 Nov 08 18:53:24
Varado: Also greed, hatred, and delusion. Tīni akusalamūlāni: lobho akusalamūlaṃ doso akusalamūlaṃ moho akusalamūlaṃ (D.3.214).

2019 Nov 08 18:36:34
Johann: So does it, so does it, for Bhikkhus, layman, laywoman as well. And what is the root of stinginess? Ingratitude (wrong view).

2019 Nov 08 18:30:56
Varado: Possessing five qualities, a bhikkhuni is deposited in hell as if brought there. What five? She is miserly with dwellings, families, gains, praise, and the Dhamma (A.3.139). Pañcahi bhikkhave dhammehi samannāgatā bhikkhunī yathābhataṃ nikkhittā evaṃ niraye: katamehi pañcahi: Āvāsamaccha

2019 Nov 08 18:23:39
Varado: Macchariya for lodgings, maybe?

2019 Nov 08 18:01:17
Johann: Kana saw that Bhikkhunis has even a rule in regard of macchariya, for Vineyya in their Vinaya.

2019 Nov 08 17:58:14
Johann: So does it dear Ven. Grandfather, so does it. Amacchariya is the domain of the Noble Ones, beginning by the stream to the complete of stinginess's root.

2019 Nov 08 17:51:33
Varado: Having eliminated the stain of stinginess together with its origin, they are beyond criticism.

2019 Nov 08 17:35:15
Johann: ...and "Vineyya maccheramalaṁ samūlaṁ aninditā"

2019 Nov 08 17:29:21
Johann: These Devas and Brahmas...  :) mudita

2019 Nov 08 16:53:41
Varado: May the Buddha bless you. May the Dhamma shine on you. May Wat Ayum be a refuge to many. For any possible help with questions, please email. My pleasure.

2019 Nov 08 13:55:57
Johann: ..."This shows that the Buddha would not be troubled by those who become angry and resentful, but by those who are strongly opinionated and who relinquish their views reluctantly...."

2019 Nov 08 09:27:01
Johann: Ven. Bhantes

2019 Nov 08 09:23:11
Khemakumara:   _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Ariyadhammika

2019 Nov 08 06:26:12
Johann: It was four days after closing that decreased in last instance

2019 Nov 08 06:15:13
Moritz: The bot traffic is not decreasing.

2019 Nov 08 06:15:10
Johann: Ayasma Moritz

2019 Nov 08 06:14:53
Moritz: (was logged in long time before, but not at PC)

2019 Nov 08 06:14:52
Johann: Ayasama Moritz

2019 Nov 08 06:14:06
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 08 02:08:55
Moritz: Sadhu _/\_ May Bhante bear and overcome all sickness well _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 08 02:05:42
Khemakumara: Khantı paramaṁ tapo tītikkhā. Patient forbearance is the highest austerity

2019 Nov 08 02:01:46
Khemakumara: lack of energy because of sickness of the body (boils) Nyom Moritz

2019 Nov 08 01:53:48
Khemakumara: Meister Moritz

2019 Nov 08 01:52:12
Moritz: Hoping Bhante is well _/\_

2019 Nov 08 01:51:55
Moritz: Vandami Bhante (Khemakumara) _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 07 20:02:22
Johann: enery, battery saysfinish for now... may there be food for liberation be found and got touched by many independently.

2019 Nov 07 20:00:16
Johann: Every being, even without capacity to gain higher, is worthy of metta, worthy to be not harmed in existance, worthy to help in times of needing the four paccayas, Ven. Grandfather.

2019 Nov 07 19:37:39
Visitor: Let us treat those with Buddhanature with the respect appropriate to future Buddhas.

2019 Nov 07 19:01:03
Johann: Maybe an inspirig topic on the matter How should I express Mudita or Joy for all beings? for all having access (upanissaya).

2019 Nov 07 18:56:59
Johann: Sadhu, Sadhu. That's how mudita is good understood in relation with "Buddhanature"

2019 Nov 07 18:54:52
Visitor: Homage to all those with Buddhanature. _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 07 18:53:59
Visitor:  Homage to all the Buddhas.  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 07 18:28:47
Johann: Dear lok ta Visitor

2019 Nov 07 17:29:02
Cheav Villa:  _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 07 17:24:12
Johann: Don't worry either, yet perfect if visiting the Nuns. Mudita

2019 Nov 07 17:21:15
Cheav Villa: About the medicin called loṇasociraka, Kana will take time to go to Visit Wat Panha to ask her for detail  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 07 17:21:05
Johann: Cetana counts, the own one, Nyom.

2019 Nov 07 17:18:42
Johann: May Nyom not worry to much about it. My person guesses Nyom Chanroth might have lot of joy in the idea of planting. While Cacaco is fine, yet not a need or request, it's something that can be gained in shops.

2019 Nov 07 17:09:57
Cheav Villa: Kana now seen without Sila… someone could not tell the truth 

2019 Nov 07 17:01:13
Cheav Villa: Kana ordered 5kg via web, phoned them 2days ago but still no delivery cause of no confirmation since he still abroad now

2019 Nov 07 16:49:17
Cheav Villa: But the Cacao company in Mondolkiri doesnt allowed, they sale Cacao beans.

2019 Nov 07 16:47:38
Cheav Villa: Kana Bhante  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ as he informed to bring only Cacao fruits for Bhante could make and use of medecine againts Malaria

2019 Nov 07 16:20:48
Johann: Indeed releasing investigation cause hunger and no food can be expected at the end as well.

2019 Nov 07 16:18:35
Johann: When homeless effort is requested, no joy in sacrificing into it. Oh this monks... of modern world.  :)

2019 Nov 07 16:16:59
Johann: Oh this monks  :) When household effort can be made for favor and house, all engaged...

2019 Nov 07 14:17:18
Johann: Āyasmā Moritz (Master, a usual address for skilled lay people in the Tipitaka)

2019 Nov 06 17:27:06
Cheav Villa: Master Moritz _/\_

2019 Nov 06 17:23:52
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2019 Nov 06 17:23:46
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Nov 06 00:13:12
Vithou:  _/\_

2019 Nov 05 22:47:19
Moritz: Hello Visitor! _/\_

2019 Nov 05 16:44:34
Johann: ...and that is good! Cacao

2019 Nov 05 16:31:04
Cheav Villa: Kana Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ :)

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[Buddha]

Author Topic: [Q&A] How to ordain as a monk of the Buddha?  (Read 14991 times)

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Online Johann

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[Q&A] How to ordain as a monk of the Buddha?
« on: July 28, 2019, 07:05:43 PM »
[Q&A] How to ordain as a monk of the Buddha?

Answered previously outward:

householder, interested,

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

my person would not answer how to become, ordain, in what ever tradition, but in regard of the Savaka Sangha, the disciples of the Buddhas, his Sangha of monks.

While it is relatively easy to ordain here or there, it's not that easy to ordain under the real Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha.

First of all one has to meet the Tripple Gems and perceive them correct (see on how to become "Buddhist" ). Other than just taking refuge, to become a member of the Sangha one needs to have a valid preceptor and a valid procedure. If one ordains under an actually "non-bhikkhu", although he could nevertheless practice good if right perceived and no doubts, one would not have become a valid member of the Sangha (a case most relevant in regard of certain Bhikkhuni ordinations today, for example. Once the lineage died out, there are no means to reestablish a Sangha of the/a Buddha).

If not sure, if having doubts, reasons for doubts, and desire to become a full member of the Budddhas Sangha, it's good to fist seek for going forth as a pabajjita, homeless (usually called Samanera) if meeting a single monk who is perceived as valid and correct member of the Sangha. Later on, if desiring (note that it is not needed to fully ordain to live the holy live toward Arahatship and as Arahat), one can look out for a proper Sangha to ordain (since there are 6 qualified Bhikkhus needed to perform the ceremony) and should of cause always hold up the wish "may I meet the opportunity" or "if meeting the Savakasangha, and given the chance to ordain, I will".

The problem when ordaining incorrect/invalid is that one would be burdened by doubts and so easy be disturbed in regard of remorselessness.

There is/would be also no problem to went into homelessness, asking for the 10 precepts, and practice as wanderer under the Tripple Gems, or even as wanderer, yet not met the Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha at all (like for example Ven. Maha Kassapa left home without Nissaya/teacher). If having the right aspiration, aim, to leave home, right Upanissaya, the wish "if there exist those/he who knows the way to liberation, may I meet them/him" the teacher/Sangha will go out forward to one, meeting on half the way.

If fully ordaining under a group of thieves (groups which maintain a copy), and also perceiving the right Sangha as wrong, it could be very dangerous in regard of ones possibility to ordain since one having gained "Bhikkhu-hood" by thief, could no more be ordained in the Sangha. Something that one should take care of if leaving home as wanderer or Samanera: if giving others to think that one is a Bhikkhu of the Buddha for bellies sake, using the Sangha-heritage without being given so, one counts as one having gained by thief and would be no more ordained in this lifetime.

Similar situation is critical if one, coming from another sect, returns to this sect without disrobing.

There is, how ever, not much a problem if not ordained with doubts that this is the right group, even if wrong. Once meeting the right, valid, one could join them.

In regard of detail requirements for ordination, which is not necessary always good in study much, one can look here as a source giving much information: Nissaya

As for what to do, wishing to ordain, if meeting a member of the Buddhas good Sangha, the Sangha or someone related to it: Simply ask devoted, bowing down, three times for leaving home under the Buddhas discipline, and if wishing also to gain full ordination at the same time. Let the rest be the matter of those actually in change.

If no reaction on it, repeat the wish, even daily and if having doubt that you are taken serious, after a good time of patient (note that a adherent of other sects would be observed minimum 4 month before full ordaining, if his attitude ans aspiration is right and old teachers/teachings abound. Most of western would count as such Aliens, so nothing that requires to feel disregarded, but the Bhikkhus duty to do.)

who's involved: first of all, you, with the right aspiration and perception and as for ordaining as Samanera a valid preceptor, as for ordaining as Bhikkhu, a chosen valid Nissaya (mentor/personal teacher), a valid preceptor, a valid Sangha of six valid Bhikkhus, and a valid place (Uposatha-place, within valid Sema/borders), and a valid Ordination - action.

how to contact the respective person: seek out for a valid perceive-able member of the Sangha of the Buddha, and ask for such three times in a devoted way, asking for taking refuge under the Gems and for going forth under them, and possible full ordination in the Sangha of the Buddha.

What is the most prominent way to ordain as a monk?: merits, inclination to what leads to long lasting happiness. It is strong condition (Upanissaya), caused by strong condition causes (-paccaya) of the past and present, which lead one most prominent to ordain as a homeless under the Buddhas teachings, among his straight following disciples and begins with the first highest blessings, to desire for, is not gained, ripen yet:

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

[The Buddha:]
  Not consorting with fools,
  consorting with the wise,
  paying homage to those worthy of homage:
      This is the highest protection.

Living in a civilized land,
  having made merit in the past,
  directing oneself rightly:
      This is the highest protection.

Broad knowledge, skill,
  well-mastered discipline,
  well-spoken words:
      This is the highest protection.

Support for one's parents,
  assistance to one's wife and children,
  consistency in one's work:
      This is the highest protection.

Giving, living in rectitude,
  assistance to one's relatives,
  deeds that are blameless:
      This is the highest protection.

Avoiding, abstaining from evil;
  refraining from intoxicants,
  being heedful of the qualities of the mind:
      This is the highest protection.

Respect, humility,
  contentment, gratitude,
  hearing the Dhamma on timely occasions:
      This is the highest protection.

Patience, compliance,
  seeing contemplatives,
  discussing the Dhamma on timely occasions:
      This is the highest protection.... (Mangala Sutta — Protection )

It's very, very seldom that a Buddha and his teachings arise in this world, even more seldom to get in touch and even more seldom to have the conditions for such a possibility to get in touch gained, so don't waste time if this auspicious change and kusala mind is met, since nothing last aside of the highest gain.

If missing conditions yet, strong desire to gain them by efforts, nourishing this possibilities outwardly and inwardly, associating with that headed toward liberation or already freed, will have it's desired effects, sooner or later, even if caught in household outwardly, at least secure at the break up of this body, if having strong faith that house (the six senses) is no refuge and nothing worthy to give into, aside providing, maintaining for the gaining of independence from it one day.

Mudita
« Last Edit: July 28, 2019, 07:25:51 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Danilo

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Re: [Q&A] How to ordain as a monk of the Buddha?
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2019, 08:04:47 AM »
The problem when ordaining incorrect/invalid is that one would be burdened by doubts and so easy be disturbed in regard of remorselessness.

If fully ordaining under a group of thieves (groups which maintain a copy), and also perceiving the right Sangha as wrong, it could be very dangerous in regard of ones possibility to ordain since one having gained "Bhikkhu-hood" by thief, could no more be ordained in the Sangha.

Bhante Johann,

The Vinaya, which prescribe the rules, protocols and customs to be followed by the Sangha, seems pretty extensive. I wonder how much of it one must know to be able to reconize e distinguish those who are 'thieves' and those who are valid members of the Sangha.

Online Johann

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Re: [Q&A] How to ordain as a monk of the Buddha?
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2019, 10:35:59 AM »
Okasa Ven. Members of the Sangha, Ven. Grandfather Varado , Ven. Indaññāno , Ven. Ariyadhammika

Upasaka Danilo, devoted follower of the Gems from Brazil, asked in relation to Kanas previous account:

Bhante Johann,

The Vinaya, which prescribe the rules, protocols and customs to be followed by the Sangha, seems pretty extensive. I wonder how much of it one must know to be able to reconize e distinguish those who are 'thieves' and those who are valid members of the Sangha.


Thinking it's good to do so, that the Venerables may not be touched by possible "hot irons" for then, my person takes leave to address the question. May the Venerables nevertheless point out things which might be an obstacles for long term happiness, out of compassion.

Nyom Danilo ,

Sadhu for investigation.

Also many others, Upasaka Ebo ( saddhamma ) shortly approached the issue. Maybe good generally, to keep in mind, that one always meets what is given. Sometimes it's because giving confused windmill-demons that one has a lot to struggle by oneself with them. Sometimes strong desire for knowledge, yet not really given, makes the knowledge a hindrance.

Generally, one not being part of the Buddhas Sangha yet, has not been given, is not asked by the Buddha, to know much of rules they have, but the opposite.

To display a perceiveable Savaka Sangha in the world is "only" the Sanghas own task at least. So no need to worry about the formal issues but only in regarding of ones perception of the Savaka Sangha heading beyond world. That is possible the most significant mark which makes it much more easier to trace of whom aspires, has objectives in the world, under the use of the Buddhas lables, or just objectives toward release.

In fact, to know to much about the holly life, better the customs, can easily turn aspirants away and this being the reason, the Buddha didn't really allow much informing, and there are even rules that say "not before having gone fort".

Now, many live in the time and perception of many "fakes" and this being the reason the Sangha obiviously decided in their last great meeting in the 1950 to make the heritage more accessable for making prove. Yet of course, the more knowledge doesn't give more release without seeing through the views the heartword is imbedded.

For one leaving home, inspired by the Noble Ones, there is not much special danger and one can be sure that ones old friend, ones merits, approach one half the way of ones search.

So it's totally useless, from my persons point of view, to try to match perfect once by oneself having not a little left home.

If feeling inspired, and especially if it goes against certain grains, if not tracing real fundamental strange things, go on, don't waste time. There are many small Sanghas and not all are for all, but depending on ones Upanissaya.

Here it would be often brought into cooperation with the different followers, disciples, of the single great Venerables, like those attended to Ven.Maha Kassapa, Sariputta, Moggalana, Upali...

It should be not thought that they are of different course.

And one should also remember, that the Buddha preferred merely small, near bound to each others, groups, thinking on the highest benevolence by dewlling of Sotas with Sotas... Arahats with Arahat on ideal level, or wise teacher with wise students, virtuous with virtuous...

In the west or modern World Ven. Maha Kassapa often counts as only ideal. Yet, naturally, that is the smallest group. It wouldn't work, leads to frust, if seeking for this quality in most known and largest groups.

More large ways, following Ven. Sariputta, Moggolana, which are the traditional, are often downgraded in the west. Just think on how much modern world talks on meditation, yet deep ensnared in wrong view, incapacity and aversion against basic merits.

If thinking, while within the train, that changing the class gives a better feeling, fits better to refined perception, there is no problem at all in doing what ever kind of "re-ordination" or "app-additing".
Yet there is also much nonsens going on, often even impure minded, when certain groups or teacher, call others to re-ordain. Even such isn't really necessary if solid perception of the target of refuge.

There are only four grave things which can not be repeared for ones Bhikkhu aspiration, once gained higher ordination within pure and doubtless perceived Sangha, Nissaya, Upajjhāya.

One should keep in mind that neither clear perception nor object related to it, are something lasting, could not change, for not-Arahats.

Generally useful teaching for understanding the matter and how to work on with it, is generously given by Ven. Grandfather Thanissaro in a short dhammic teaching: The Power of Judgment

May it be releasing and hindrances destructing.

Again, aside of seeking refuge and wishing to go forth from common ways under the Refuge, you are not asked to be informed and the rest starts with the "formal" request.

Even here certain groups today argue that the initial request has to follow a given fix pattern, but actually hasn't, yet "just" worry again that nothing is made wrong. Elders, everywhere, usually are very careful to look for the best possible for their children, yet not after gain by accumulation of children at the same time.

Kamma of beings is different, so it wouldn't work like booking an all included holiday from the professional marked, end even then and there booked, not for sure. That's how things are, but by trust in kamma and skillful, relay on what is given, nothing to fear at all in relation to liberation.

mudita
« Last Edit: November 11, 2019, 11:16:29 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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