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2019 Sep 14 01:20:37
Johann: (no problem at all) A blessed and meritful conducted Uposatha those observing it today.

2019 Sep 13 16:07:47
Cheav Villa: សុំទោស _/\_

2019 Sep 13 16:06:36
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2019 Sep 13 15:53:17
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Varado _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 13 15:51:32
Johann:  _/\_ Bante Varado. Nyom Morotz, Nyom Villa.

2019 Sep 13 15:50:03
Cheav Villa: Master Morit  :) _/\_

2019 Sep 13 15:47:31
Moritz: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Varado _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Johann _/\_ Bong Villa

2019 Sep 13 00:35:39
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 12 20:36:10
Johann: Beyound birth, stand, age, gender, lay or in robes.

2019 Sep 12 20:33:57
Johann: No way for one not gained relation at time.

2019 Sep 12 20:33:01
Johann: Beings, indeed, find only that what they are looking for, and seldom, very seldom, it's related upwatdly, even release in unbond.

2019 Sep 12 17:35:22
Johann: (Delayed) Bhante.

2019 Sep 12 16:16:22
Khemakumara: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Johann

2019 Sep 12 16:16:03
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Varado

2019 Sep 12 10:25:12
Cheav Villa: សូមសុខ សុវត្ថិភាពតាមផ្លូវ _/\_

2019 Sep 12 10:14:50
Chanroth:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ខ្ញុំទៅ v.n​ ដេីម្បីព្យាបាលជម្ងឺក្រពះ របស់ម្ដាយខ្ញុំ

2019 Sep 12 09:45:43
Johann: Bhante. May Bhante look at his Kuti .

2019 Sep 12 09:02:52
Varado: Thanks for fixing that. May you be well.

2019 Sep 12 08:41:30
Varado: Is the Glossary still available for download?

2019 Sep 12 08:26:31
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhate _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ How is Bhante's health?  _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 09 13:03:42
Johann:  _/\_ Bhante Varado

2019 Sep 07 11:49:16
Vithou:  _/\_

2019 Sep 07 09:12:43
Chanroth:  :( :( :(

2019 Sep 07 09:11:31
Chanroth:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 07 09:11:27
Chanroth:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 07 01:50:59
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 07 00:53:49
Johann: A meritful Uposatha observance those who undertake it today.

2019 Sep 06 11:58:54
Johann:  _/\_ Bhante. Might have been an auto mail (and not so importand). He could share it in his kuti, if wishing.

2019 Sep 06 11:53:04
Yocakkhuma: There was an email in German I didn't get the meaning..?!

2019 Sep 06 11:49:40
Yocakkhuma: Hi everyone, may all beings be happy

2019 Sep 06 08:29:17
Ieng Puthy: ករុណា ព្រះអង្គ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 06 08:08:29
Johann: Atma's health is dhammata, nothing special, Nyom.

2019 Sep 06 08:06:42
Johann: Nyom Buddhi. Mudita that she could access again.

2019 Sep 06 07:41:15
Ieng Puthy:  _/\_How is Bhante health?

2019 Sep 06 07:35:57
Ieng Puthy:  _/\_ អរព្រះគុណ ព្រះអង្គ Vandami Bhante

2019 Sep 06 07:32:24
Ieng Puthy: Chum Reap Sour   _/\_Mr Moritz

2019 Sep 06 07:30:55
Ieng Puthy: ករុណាសូមថ្វាយបង្គំុ Khemakumara Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 06 07:21:17
Ieng Puthy: Vandami Bhante  _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 06 06:20:55
Johann: mudita

2019 Sep 06 06:01:57
Cheav Villa: Kana Prah Ang, She forgot username' password. And kana had sent her already about the info. _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 06 05:51:33
Johann: Did Nyom get the email? If any question, she may not hesitate to raise.

2019 Sep 06 04:55:56
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 06 04:49:44
Johann: It's like practicing Jhana. Importand to remember how to enter, how to leave.

2019 Sep 06 04:47:12
Johann: Ieng Puthy  :) Atma had send Nyom an email for her access datas.

2019 Sep 06 04:39:34
Cheav Villa: She forgot username's password _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 06 04:35:33
Cheav Villa: Kana had sent her email and password already, she could not accessible _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 06 04:18:55
Johann: Good. Atma thinks it's easier to make it new and then send an email to Nyom Villa.

2019 Sep 06 04:15:27
Johann: but Atma had send Nyom a PM once, right? Maybe, if Nyom gave her access, she can look into her PM's. again.

2019 Sep 06 04:13:41
Cheav Villa: Kana  _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2019 Sep 06 04:11:05
Johann: She can either use the link "forgot passwort" and will get an email. Or, if no access to email, Atma could make a new pass word. (My person thought so, that it got lost))

2019 Sep 06 03:07:38
Cheav Villa: Sister Puthy, in this morning asked Kana she forgot her login password into  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 06 03:06:19
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 06 01:50:10
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Sep 06 01:45:46
Johann: A pleasing and meritful Uposatha, those observing it today.

2019 Sep 05 12:00:09
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2019 Sep 05 10:10:57
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Aug 30 03:50:22
Johann: Seams as if the rain leaves way to make a round

2019 Aug 30 02:34:32
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 30 01:33:20
Johann: and may those observing it today enjoy the rest in doing merits as well

2019 Aug 29 02:10:10
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 29 01:58:34
Johann: An admirable New-moon Uposatha observing all those conducting it today.

2019 Aug 25 15:07:04
Vithou:  _/\_

2019 Aug 23 06:28:14
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 23 06:06:18
Johann: At least here in the vally, people celebrate the Uposatha today. May it be blessed and meritful spend by those taking part.

2019 Aug 22 12:53:30
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2019 Aug 22 10:04:46
Moritz: Chom reap leah _/\_

2019 Aug 22 10:01:05
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Bong Villa _/\_

2019 Aug 21 10:59:03
Johann: May Sukha come to fulfillment, Nyom.

2019 Aug 21 10:44:55
Moritz: Chom reap leah, Bhante _/\_ I have some other stuff to do now and will come back later. _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 21 09:15:49
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2019 Aug 21 08:22:24
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 20 11:46:26
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante  _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 20 11:25:55
Johann: Nyom Villa

2019 Aug 16 12:51:30
Johann: Does she have any technical difficulty? Just because such could be.

2019 Aug 16 12:50:14
Johann: Nyom Anneliese

2019 Aug 15 04:29:20
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Sadhu

2019 Aug 15 03:49:34
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 15 00:36:44
Johann: A blessed full moon Upusatha and much joy in merits

2019 Aug 11 14:35:01
Mohan Gnanathilake: Dear The Most Reverend Samanera Johann, Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka! Sehr ehrwürdiger Samanera Johann, Dhamma Grüße an Sie aus Sri Lanka!

2019 Aug 11 14:32:29
Mohan Gnanathilake: Dear The Most Reverend Samanera Johann, Dhamma Greetings from Sri Lanka!

2019 Aug 11 14:14:46
Johann: Nyom Mohan

2019 Aug 11 07:32:16
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 11 01:15:57
Johann: Nothing much burdensome this time, Nyom Villa.

2019 Aug 10 16:42:46
Cheav Villa: How is Bhante health?  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 10 16:28:44
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 10 15:04:44
Johann: Nyom Vithou, Nyom Villa

2019 Aug 08 02:03:56
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 08 01:32:20
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ sadhu

2019 Aug 08 00:29:15
Johann: A blessed Uposatha-Sila-observation day and much recoicing with ones beauty investments and gains.

2019 Aug 03 01:35:23
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2019 Aug 03 01:09:55
Moritz: (or morning...)

2019 Aug 03 01:09:31
Moritz: Good evening, Bhante _/\_

2019 Aug 02 08:54:49
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 02 07:30:06
Johann: Once really going for refuge, such is ensured.

2019 Aug 02 07:28:16
Johann: Sadhu, Sadhu

2019 Aug 02 07:04:04
Cheav Villa: May all suffering being healed under the refuge of the three gems _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Aug 02 05:36:31
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2019 Aug 02 05:28:41
Moritz: (going to sleep now) _/\_

2019 Aug 02 05:28:24
Moritz: _/\_

2019 Aug 02 05:28:21
Moritz: Good morning, Bhante, bong Villa!

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Author Topic: Haushälter? wie ist das dhammisch zu verstehen | What's a householder?  (Read 797 times)

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Offline Johann

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  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
Kürzlich stattete Atma kurzen Besuch in einem österreichischen "Esoterik"-treffplatz ab.

Man kann sich vorstellen, wenn Atma etwas kennend, daß dieses zu viel Unruhe in Saus und Braus, führte, nicht zu letzt deshalb weil hofflich mit Stand Petsonen angesprochen. Diese ungewohnte Adressierung vermochte jedes Thema in ganz verschiedene Spekulationen ausarten.

Upasika angela war eine der wenigen, die nicht nur nachfragte, was es mit der Ansprache aufsich hat, sondern machte sich auch vertieft Gedanken.

Atma denkt, daß es nicht nur für andere interessant sein mag dieses Thema, in einem Thema "Ursache des Leidens" aufgekommen, vielleicht bis zur höchsten Einsicht hier weiter zu behandeln, und wiederholt hier eingehend die kurze Abhandlung im Trubel für möglich vertiefte Behandlung:

Quote from: Upasika Angela
Herzlich Willkommen!

was meinst Du mit Heimerhalter?

lieben Gruß

Quote from: Johann
Dieses ist eine sehr tiefgrundige Frage, eine gute, vorallem eine klärende, sicher ein Thema wert und nicht so schnell abgetan, wenn man es in jeder Hinsicht verstehen möchte, gute Standerhälterin.

Dazwischen kurz das Thema Respekterweisen und Dhp 109 besprochen.

Quote from: Upasika Angela
wenn Du also vom "Heim" sprichst, das beziehst Du Dich unter anderem auf die vier göttlichen "Wohnstätten"
>brahma vihara, ganz kurz gefasst:
Liebesgüte, Mitgefühl, Freude und Gleichmut?

Quote from: Johann
Diese Erhabenen Aufenthalte sind für einen Geist am Haus haltend (um hier auch die höhere Bedeutung anzusprechen: Sinne) nicht erreichbar.

Haushälter hat zweierlei, aber meist insichgreifende Bedeutungen: die eine beschreibt den körperlichen Lebensunterhalt und Aufenthalt, und die zweite den geistigen, die Gegenstände des Unterhalts für den Geist. So hat auch Hauslosigkeit, Heimatlos, zweierlei, nicht so oft insichgreifende Bedeutungen.

Allgemein wird solch Unterscheidung über den Lebensunterhalt getroffen, in Ebenen von Äußerlichkeiten passend unterschieden.

Aber auch die Brahmawelten stellen noch immer keine Hauslosigkeit dar, auch wenn Erhabener Stand, Brahma.

Ist dies soweit für Haushälterin verständlich?

Quote from: Upasika Angela
ich muss da erstmal drüber nachsinnen,

wir haben da 2 verschiedene Definitionen von Haus...ich hab noch nicht ganz erfasst, wie das zu begreifen ist, aber ich gehe sehr stark davon aus, das ich da etwas lernen kann und deswegen tauche ich da tiefer ein

e d i t >der Garten liegt wohl hinter dem Haus?

vielen Dank erstmal für deine weitere Erklärung

Quote from: Upasika Angela einige Stunden später
Magst Du nochmal ein paar Worte mehr zum Thema haus verlieren?
welches Haus ist hier genau gemeint?
ein Gedankegebäude? bzw ein Denkgebäude? oder der Körper mit seinen irdischen Sinnen? oder beides, oder keins von beiden?

Quote from: ??
Wenn immer mögend, wer immer angeregt, sicher "fokusierter" (sagt man glaubt meinereiner in der Szene hier) hier , bedarf natürlich auch in gewisse Hauslosigkeit zu ziehen (seinen Stand und Bezüge loszulassen), Haushälterin. Ist alles dem Überwinden des Leidens gewidmet und nicht an Welt bindendes "Grenzland, Anschlußgebiet ".

Dannach wurde es zu tumultartig.

Konnte Nyom Angela aus dem letzten Link etwas gewinnen? Ist Englisch (abseits Atmas schlechtem), zugänglich für sie?

This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Your Real Home

Your external home isn't your real home.
It's your supposed home, your home in the world.
As for your real home, that's peace.
The Buddha has us build our own home
by letting go till we reach peace.

A home is binding. It needs to be build up. It needs to be maintained. It requires defend. And it's subject to decay, how ever hard one tries to hold on it. Once it breaks apart, once it can no more be maintained, the suffering get overwhelming to hold on, right after letting go another form get's grasped and building up, become, start anew.

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

Through the round of many births I roamed
   without reward,
   without rest,
seeking the house-builder.
   Painful is birth
   again & again.

House-builder, you're seen!
You will not build a house again.
All your rafters broken,
the ridge pole dismantled,
immersed in dismantling, the mind
has attained to the end of craving.

These verses were the Buddha's first utterance after his full Awakening. For some reason, they are not reported in any of the other canonical accounts of the events following on the Awakening.
DhpA: "House" = selfhood; house-builder = craving. "House" may also refer to the nine abodes of beings — the seven stations of consciousness and two spheres (see Khp 4 and DN 15 ).

The word anibbisam in 153 can be read either as the negative gerund of nibbisati ("earning, gaining a reward") or as the negative gerund of nivisati, altered to fit the meter, meaning "coming to a rest, settled, situated." Both readings make sense in the context of the verse, so the word is probably intended to have a double meaning: without reward, without rest.

To understand the universe, world, home, the Buddha does not what use to go astray in the manifold phenomena outwardly but points us on the mico-level of the pattern.

So how does this housebuilding, becoming (bhava) and birth (jati) take place, again and again?

There being the sensebase eye, having come into being by not-knowing, thirst, when there is touch (phassa) on the eye, feeling (vedanā arises. When feeling arises, craving (taṇha) arises, when craving arises, graspholding (entertaining, unter-halten upādāna arises, when graspholding arises, becoming (bhava) arises. When becoming arises, birth/stand/state/home (jāti arises. And with it aging, sickness, death, seperation from beloved, union with unpleasing, sorrow, lamention... the whole suffering comes into play.

There being the sensebase ear...




...intellect feeling (vedanā arises. When feeling arises, craving (taṇha) arises, when craving arises, graspholding (upādāna arises, when graspholding arises, becoming (bhava) arises. When becoming arises, birth/stand/state/home (jāti arises. And with it aging, sickness, death, seperation from beloved, union with unpleasing, sorrow, lamention... the whole suffering comes into play.

So is it that from house/stand/birth suffering comes into play, home/stand/birth being the reason for suffering.

For the larger picture:

And this is the way to understand how from birth as a requisite condition come aging and death. If there were no birth at all, in any way, of anything anywhere — i.e., of devas in the state of devas, of celestials in the state of celestials, of spirits in the state of spirits, of demons in the state of demons, of human beings in the human state, of quadrupeds in the state of quadrupeds, of birds in the state of birds, of snakes in the state of snakes, or of any being in its own state — in the utter absence of birth, from the cessation of birth, would aging and death be discerned?”

“No, lord.”

“Thus this is a cause, this is a reason, this is an origination, this is a requisite condition for aging and death, i.e., birth.

With touch by an object, feeling toward the object arises. Like seeing a nice house on the road and pleasing feeling arises. Or when touched by the uglyness of the own home, dismay may arise.

With feeling desire arises. Desire for that nice home. Desire for another home.

Once desire arises, graspholding asises. Like if one holds on the perception of the nice house.

Graspholding becoming arises. As one starts to get it, to build it up.

Once becoming has been arosen, birth, taking a stand, moving into it, takes place, and by this completion of identification, stand, aging, sickness, what ever burden with it to maintain, and lastly breaking apart comes into play.

This is the truth of the cause of suffering.

Now with the total fading of not-knowing, desire, this/that base does not give ways of touch. No touch, no feeling. No feeling, no desire. No desire, no graspholding/nurishing, no nurishing, no becoming, building up, no becoming, no taking stand/birth. No birth, all suffering comes to cessation.

Why is there desire, craving, at first place? Because one thinks that sense and it's objects are real, a refuge, a secure dwelling to rest.

Now it needs to be investigated, no reason at all to believe, whether the eye or the forms touching the eye, are real, lasting, a refuge or if the eye (the sensebase), is decaying, changing, actually total out of ones leasting controll. Whether form, an impression (touch), is lasting, real, or the form itself, wood, stone, the construction, is constant, or actually not real, always changing and steady on decay.

Conncentration with proper, birth-giving, attention, right here and now, on the eye-base, touch, the object does one let it see for oneself, without need to relay on faith on it, or logical agreement.

The same investigation goes on for the ear and sound: real, lasting? Nose and smell: real, lasting, under controll? The tongue and tast: real, lasting, or decay steady and fast on and on? Body and bodily touch: is it lasting this body, inwardly, outwardly, or steady changing, decaying, renewed? Touch, soft, hard, warm cold, here and there, pleasing, unpleasing, able to sit and rest for a while without burden? Is the touch, the object, are the real, lasting, under control?

And the Intellect and thought, ideas: lasting, real, a refuge to hold on, under control?

Once it is discerned that eye and form, touch, feeling and what ever arises around the home eye is not real, no refuge, not under ones controll, without any lasting essence, getting disenchanted from this home arises, from this stand, and gains independency and release form the eye and form.

Discerning the ear and sound... nose and smell... tongue and aroma... body and physical touch...

Once it is discerned that intellect and thought, touch, feeling and what ever arises around the home intellect is not real, no refuge, not under ones controll, without any lasting essence, getting disenchanted from this home arises, from this stand, and gains independency and release form the intellect and ideas.

Once having left home/stand, knowing on how things are, no more longing for another arises, the task done, no more for this world, any stand, released, the Unbond, Deathless reached.

Atma thought that this will explain all notions, angles on householder at once and give vision and release.

May Nyom angela and all others, Nyom Cheav Villa ... always find much time to let go of home/stand, whether outwardly still bond by debts or not: i.e live the Brahmachariya, a holly life.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 06:22:50 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Cheav Villa

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Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

Since Ear, eye, nose, tongue, body… till Jhana is inconstant..

May all under instruction of the Buddha Dhamma and Sangha seeking and discerning right in developing the Bramavihara untill reached peace.

 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 09:45:36 AM by Cheav Villa »

Offline Johann

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Sadhu, yes. The dwelling, home, stand in any kind of state, what ever concentration, isn't real and fabricated, yet good to chose one of the refined homes for a living of the holly life. Dwellings, pleasure depending on the five sense is not only raw, but cause much suffering, for oneself and many, is the reason for conflicts, killing, stealing... wars.

The realm of the Brahmas is one pleasing dwelling, also to investigate the circle of becoming. And a dwelling that does not really depend on others lose. So

Thus far the Buddha has shown the practice of mettā meditation which can reach up to the attainment of the third mettā jhāna[1]. Being called the 'Divine Living', this attainment is still a mundane level of peace.
He now proceeds to mention in the last verse the practice of insight meditation (vipassanā) by stating:

10. And not holding to [wrong] view,
Being virtuous, endowed with right vision,
And discarding desire for sensual pleasures,
One surely never again will be reborn in a womb.

The aim of insight meditation is firstly the not holding to or the complete freedom from wrong view (micchā diṭṭhi). It is the decisive liberating practice for the removal of wrong view and the culmination of that perfect peace, nibbāna. The resulting attainment is called the 'Noble Living' (ariya-vihāra), and is the supramundane level of peace. It comprises the four supramundane 'fruition attainments' (phala-samāpatti), namely, the fruition of Stream-entry (sotāpatti-phala), Once-return (sakadāgāmi-), Non-return (anāgāmi-) and Arahantship (arahatta-phala).
 1. Classical Mahavihara tradition, Abhidhamma, Commentary Tradition, as Bhantes, deny that four Jhana and Arahatship can be reached by means of metta

This is also the way of unshakeable relation-ship to the Buddha and Noble Ones, a relation not possible to decay, to break apart, no more needing hard maintaining and gaining, relation with highes peace.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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