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2020 Jan 26 12:06:21
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 25 23:25:33
Johann: Nyom Villa

2020 Jan 24 09:58:40
Johann: As thought, incl. the Devas.

2020 Jan 24 08:29:47
Cheav Villa: He kept walking on road num 3 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 24 08:28:40
Cheav Villa: But could not help only giving drinking water. Bhante told his lost in this area 3days ago then he walr

2020 Jan 24 08:24:26
Cheav Villa: with Dad and Srey muk kamao, going to visit His Grand ma Grand pa. Fortunately he met Bhante Khmema kumara on the main road

2020 Jan 24 08:22:10
Cheav Villa: Kana Bhante this morning aroung 7.30 kana son arrived near Psar Tram kna on national road number3

2020 Jan 24 08:20:39
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 24 07:05:21
Johann: A blessed chinese new year, new moon Uposatha those who celebrate it today.

2020 Jan 23 21:53:22
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 23 21:46:43
Johann: Sokh chomreoun

2020 Jan 23 21:25:30
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante :) _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 23 11:48:02
Johann: A blessed and fruitful new moon Uposatha, those observing it today

2020 Jan 22 13:30:29
Johann: May Sukha come to fulfillment, Nyom. It's well for now.

2020 Jan 22 09:39:03
Danilo: did Bhante's health get better?

2020 Jan 22 09:37:11
Danilo: Bhante Johann _/\_

2020 Jan 21 19:20:53
Johann: Meister Moritz

2020 Jan 21 19:01:10
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 21 13:09:02
Johann: Blind like ants are being believing in technic, scients and incapable to trace where and how effects take their cause.

2020 Jan 20 19:30:27
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 19 20:32:04
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2020 Jan 19 20:29:34
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 19 15:01:46
Johann: some moved to topic here

2020 Jan 19 10:20:11
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2020 Jan 19 10:03:16
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 18 08:14:54
Moritz: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 18 05:57:52
Johann: A blessed and fruitful Sila day

2020 Jan 17 19:19:18
Moritz: Chom reap leah _/\_

2020 Jan 17 18:37:01
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2020 Jan 17 18:14:15
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2020 Jan 17 13:39:36
Sophorn: Many greetings to everyone,

2020 Jan 17 13:39:19
Sophorn:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 17 10:29:19
Johann: "so, now I go up and clear the area a little, make some merits, and I will not share my merits, with anybody..."  ^-^

2020 Jan 17 08:49:11
Chanroth: ធ្វើអាស្រមហើយចេញពីរសេចក្ដីល្អ ធ្វើអ្វីដើម្បីខ្លួល្អជាង

2020 Jan 17 08:45:08
Chanroth: សូមលាហើយ

2020 Jan 17 08:33:16
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 17 06:56:27
Johann: A blessed and fruitful Uposatha, those observing it today.

2020 Jan 17 06:45:45
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2020 Jan 17 06:44:49
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 16 23:01:31
Moritz: Mr. Lew _/\_

2020 Jan 15 14:16:00
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 15 11:15:29
Moritz: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 15 11:12:01
Johann: Nyom

2020 Jan 15 10:24:02
Cheav Villa: Master Moritz _/\_

2020 Jan 15 10:21:50
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2020 Jan 15 10:11:56
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 12 22:22:36
Moritz: Chom reap leah _/\_

2020 Jan 12 22:04:02
Moritz: _/\_

2020 Jan 12 21:34:30
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 12 21:31:02
Johann: Sokh chomreoun, may happiness come to fullfillment, all

2020 Jan 12 21:27:15
Cheav Villa: Master Moritz _/\_ Visitor _/\_

2020 Jan 12 21:26:54
Cheav Villa:  Kana Bhante _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

2020 Jan 12 21:26:06
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 12 21:24:21
Moritz: Visitor _/\_

2020 Jan 12 21:24:09
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2020 Jan 12 21:23:59
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 12 21:23:50
Johann: Good on working isn't a bad reservation. Sokh chomreoun

2020 Jan 12 21:16:12
Cheav Villa: I kana in working conditions in the ministry  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 12 17:24:45
Johann: How is Nyom Villa doing? Seems as if more reserved

2020 Jan 11 21:30:11
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 11 21:27:10
Johann: On the other side it's just visible for Aramika, so also fine to leave it as it is.

2020 Jan 11 21:18:06
Johann: but possible good to change it, since looking of course strange

2020 Jan 11 21:17:02
Johann: The visitor account, since enail needed, has Atmas email, yes. Nothing wrong, Nyom.

2020 Jan 11 21:10:13
Cheav Villa: Mr. Visitor is using Bhante mail on Sangham ^-^ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 11 17:28:39
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante

2020 Jan 11 17:19:29
Johann: Well then. Mudita. And to use old account is also no problem, or a new one.

2020 Jan 11 17:13:25
Visitor:  *sgift* Will return soon. will share one from lot.  :) Stay healthy. Be happy.

2020 Jan 11 17:06:13
Johann: Sure, why not? An also sure that Atma will try what ever possible that Nyom-Deva would take on existance where Dhamma can completely comprehended. My Nyom do as he feels fit and inspired.

2020 Jan 11 17:03:02
Visitor: For I am out of community and practice to be independent too -- decided when couldn't find Gem(liberated one, buddha, venerable).

2020 Jan 11 17:00:13
Visitor: If I share one of those practices, will uncle allow that? Will uncle give way to me to give as a 'Visitor'? Even when it's out of community.

2020 Jan 11 16:57:53
Johann: It's importand to see that liberation is possible, and people having gained independency are met = Savaka Sangha

2020 Jan 11 16:55:26
Johann: It's importand, aside of the deva-messangers, birth, sickness, aging death, to meet the Buddha, Arahat, Samana, so that real Saddha may arise. Books hardly can provide such "it's not just a story"

2020 Jan 11 16:50:04
Visitor: Practice leads to experience -coming slowly-2 me already. Did uncle find any Gems(Ven. Buddha) to associate with?

2020 Jan 11 16:45:42
Johann: Only by practicing and association with the Gems can Dhamma be gained. Consuming 1000 book wouldn't help

2020 Jan 11 16:43:02
Johann: What does one, seeing his decay, keep him from sharing?

2020 Jan 11 16:41:31
Johann: Giving ways to let others give is also a-maccariya

2020 Jan 11 16:39:42
Johann: And books are lasting? Sharing about oldage, sickness and death is teaching the 1 Noble truth very real, or?

2020 Jan 11 16:35:58
Visitor: What does old uncle want to offer when he is also impermanent? Dhamma-it's already in books! Experience-it will come soon to me too.

2020 Jan 11 16:30:29
Johann: If needing something, just let it be known (any language

2020 Jan 11 16:29:50
Johann: Nyom unknown

2020 Jan 11 16:28:47
Visitor:  *thumb* :-\ :( ;-) *gift*

2020 Jan 11 08:13:55
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2020 Jan 11 08:11:25
Moritz: Oh, I just wanted to write something to you, Bong Villa. But now have to go, driving taxi. ^-^ Later. _/\_ Chom reap leah

2020 Jan 11 08:05:56
Cheav Villa: Master Moritz _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 11 07:46:49
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2020 Jan 10 19:57:45
Johann: Bhante

2020 Jan 10 19:37:57
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante

2020 Jan 10 16:11:19
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 10 12:07:13
Johann: Sokh chomreoun Nyom

2020 Jan 10 11:34:53
Moritz: Chom reap leah _/\_

2020 Jan 10 11:08:47
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2020 Jan 10 11:00:22
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 10 06:05:50
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 10 05:02:29
Johann: May those keeping the full moon Uposatha today, spend an auspicious time engaged in merits

2020 Jan 09 20:17:28
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 09 20:07:28
Moritz: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 09 18:57:51
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Those who have confidence in the Awakened One have confidence in what is supreme; and for those with confidence in the supreme, supreme is the result.

2020 Jan 09 17:33:14
Cheav Villa:  :) _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2020 Jan 09 16:13:20
Johann: No problem at all.

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Author Topic: Haushälter? wie ist das dhammisch zu verstehen | What's a householder?  (Read 1931 times)

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Offline Johann

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  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
Kürzlich stattete Atma kurzen Besuch in einem österreichischen "Esoterik"-treffplatz ab.

Man kann sich vorstellen, wenn Atma etwas kennend, daß dieses zu viel Unruhe in Saus und Braus, führte, nicht zu letzt deshalb weil hofflich mit Stand Petsonen angesprochen. Diese ungewohnte Adressierung vermochte jedes Thema in ganz verschiedene Spekulationen ausarten.

Upasika angela war eine der wenigen, die nicht nur nachfragte, was es mit der Ansprache aufsich hat, sondern machte sich auch vertieft Gedanken.

Atma denkt, daß es nicht nur für andere interessant sein mag dieses Thema, in einem Thema "Ursache des Leidens" aufgekommen, vielleicht bis zur höchsten Einsicht hier weiter zu behandeln, und wiederholt hier eingehend die kurze Abhandlung im Trubel für möglich vertiefte Behandlung:

Quote from: Upasika Angela
Herzlich Willkommen!

was meinst Du mit Heimerhalter?

lieben Gruß

Quote from: Johann
Dieses ist eine sehr tiefgrundige Frage, eine gute, vorallem eine klärende, sicher ein Thema wert und nicht so schnell abgetan, wenn man es in jeder Hinsicht verstehen möchte, gute Standerhälterin.

Dazwischen kurz das Thema Respekterweisen und Dhp 109 besprochen.

Quote from: Upasika Angela
wenn Du also vom "Heim" sprichst, das beziehst Du Dich unter anderem auf die vier göttlichen "Wohnstätten"
>brahma vihara, ganz kurz gefasst:
Liebesgüte, Mitgefühl, Freude und Gleichmut?

Quote from: Johann
Diese Erhabenen Aufenthalte sind für einen Geist am Haus haltend (um hier auch die höhere Bedeutung anzusprechen: Sinne) nicht erreichbar.

Haushälter hat zweierlei, aber meist insichgreifende Bedeutungen: die eine beschreibt den körperlichen Lebensunterhalt und Aufenthalt, und die zweite den geistigen, die Gegenstände des Unterhalts für den Geist. So hat auch Hauslosigkeit, Heimatlos, zweierlei, nicht so oft insichgreifende Bedeutungen.

Allgemein wird solch Unterscheidung über den Lebensunterhalt getroffen, in Ebenen von Äußerlichkeiten passend unterschieden.

Aber auch die Brahmawelten stellen noch immer keine Hauslosigkeit dar, auch wenn Erhabener Stand, Brahma.

Ist dies soweit für Haushälterin verständlich?

Quote from: Upasika Angela
ich muss da erstmal drüber nachsinnen,

wir haben da 2 verschiedene Definitionen von Haus...ich hab noch nicht ganz erfasst, wie das zu begreifen ist, aber ich gehe sehr stark davon aus, das ich da etwas lernen kann und deswegen tauche ich da tiefer ein

e d i t >der Garten liegt wohl hinter dem Haus?

vielen Dank erstmal für deine weitere Erklärung

Quote from: Upasika Angela einige Stunden später
Magst Du nochmal ein paar Worte mehr zum Thema haus verlieren?
welches Haus ist hier genau gemeint?
ein Gedankegebäude? bzw ein Denkgebäude? oder der Körper mit seinen irdischen Sinnen? oder beides, oder keins von beiden?

Quote from: ??
Wenn immer mögend, wer immer angeregt, sicher "fokusierter" (sagt man glaubt meinereiner in der Szene hier) hier , bedarf natürlich auch in gewisse Hauslosigkeit zu ziehen (seinen Stand und Bezüge loszulassen), Haushälterin. Ist alles dem Überwinden des Leidens gewidmet und nicht an Welt bindendes "Grenzland, Anschlußgebiet ".

Dannach wurde es zu tumultartig.

Konnte Nyom Angela aus dem letzten Link etwas gewinnen? Ist Englisch (abseits Atmas schlechtem), zugänglich für sie?

This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Your Real Home

Your external home isn't your real home.
It's your supposed home, your home in the world.
As for your real home, that's peace.
The Buddha has us build our own home
by letting go till we reach peace.

A home is binding. It needs to be build up. It needs to be maintained. It requires defend. And it's subject to decay, how ever hard one tries to hold on it. Once it breaks apart, once it can no more be maintained, the suffering get overwhelming to hold on, right after letting go another form get's grasped and building up, become, start anew.

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

Through the round of many births I roamed
   without reward,
   without rest,
seeking the house-builder.
   Painful is birth
   again & again.

House-builder, you're seen!
You will not build a house again.
All your rafters broken,
the ridge pole dismantled,
immersed in dismantling, the mind
has attained to the end of craving.

These verses were the Buddha's first utterance after his full Awakening. For some reason, they are not reported in any of the other canonical accounts of the events following on the Awakening.
DhpA: "House" = selfhood; house-builder = craving. "House" may also refer to the nine abodes of beings — the seven stations of consciousness and two spheres (see Khp 4 and DN 15 ).

The word anibbisam in 153 can be read either as the negative gerund of nibbisati ("earning, gaining a reward") or as the negative gerund of nivisati, altered to fit the meter, meaning "coming to a rest, settled, situated." Both readings make sense in the context of the verse, so the word is probably intended to have a double meaning: without reward, without rest.

To understand the universe, world, home, the Buddha does not what use to go astray in the manifold phenomena outwardly but points us on the mico-level of the pattern.

So how does this housebuilding, becoming (bhava) and birth (jati) take place, again and again?

There being the sensebase eye, having come into being by not-knowing, thirst, when there is touch (phassa) on the eye, feeling (vedanā arises. When feeling arises, craving (taṇha) arises, when craving arises, graspholding (entertaining, unter-halten upādāna arises, when graspholding arises, becoming (bhava) arises. When becoming arises, birth/stand/state/home (jāti arises. And with it aging, sickness, death, seperation from beloved, union with unpleasing, sorrow, lamention... the whole suffering comes into play.

There being the sensebase ear...




...intellect feeling (vedanā arises. When feeling arises, craving (taṇha) arises, when craving arises, graspholding (upādāna arises, when graspholding arises, becoming (bhava) arises. When becoming arises, birth/stand/state/home (jāti arises. And with it aging, sickness, death, seperation from beloved, union with unpleasing, sorrow, lamention... the whole suffering comes into play.

So is it that from house/stand/birth suffering comes into play, home/stand/birth being the reason for suffering.

For the larger picture:

And this is the way to understand how from birth as a requisite condition come aging and death. If there were no birth at all, in any way, of anything anywhere — i.e., of devas in the state of devas, of celestials in the state of celestials, of spirits in the state of spirits, of demons in the state of demons, of human beings in the human state, of quadrupeds in the state of quadrupeds, of birds in the state of birds, of snakes in the state of snakes, or of any being in its own state — in the utter absence of birth, from the cessation of birth, would aging and death be discerned?”

“No, lord.”

“Thus this is a cause, this is a reason, this is an origination, this is a requisite condition for aging and death, i.e., birth.

With touch by an object, feeling toward the object arises. Like seeing a nice house on the road and pleasing feeling arises. Or when touched by the uglyness of the own home, dismay may arise.

With feeling desire arises. Desire for that nice home. Desire for another home.

Once desire arises, graspholding asises. Like if one holds on the perception of the nice house.

Graspholding becoming arises. As one starts to get it, to build it up.

Once becoming has been arosen, birth, taking a stand, moving into it, takes place, and by this completion of identification, stand, aging, sickness, what ever burden with it to maintain, and lastly breaking apart comes into play.

This is the truth of the cause of suffering.

Now with the total fading of not-knowing, desire, this/that base does not give ways of touch. No touch, no feeling. No feeling, no desire. No desire, no graspholding/nurishing, no nurishing, no becoming, building up, no becoming, no taking stand/birth. No birth, all suffering comes to cessation.

Why is there desire, craving, at first place? Because one thinks that sense and it's objects are real, a refuge, a secure dwelling to rest.

Now it needs to be investigated, no reason at all to believe, whether the eye or the forms touching the eye, are real, lasting, a refuge or if the eye (the sensebase), is decaying, changing, actually total out of ones leasting controll. Whether form, an impression (touch), is lasting, real, or the form itself, wood, stone, the construction, is constant, or actually not real, always changing and steady on decay.

Conncentration with proper, birth-giving, attention, right here and now, on the eye-base, touch, the object does one let it see for oneself, without need to relay on faith on it, or logical agreement.

The same investigation goes on for the ear and sound: real, lasting? Nose and smell: real, lasting, under controll? The tongue and tast: real, lasting, or decay steady and fast on and on? Body and bodily touch: is it lasting this body, inwardly, outwardly, or steady changing, decaying, renewed? Touch, soft, hard, warm cold, here and there, pleasing, unpleasing, able to sit and rest for a while without burden? Is the touch, the object, are the real, lasting, under control?

And the Intellect and thought, ideas: lasting, real, a refuge to hold on, under control?

Once it is discerned that eye and form, touch, feeling and what ever arises around the home eye is not real, no refuge, not under ones controll, without any lasting essence, getting disenchanted from this home arises, from this stand, and gains independency and release form the eye and form.

Discerning the ear and sound... nose and smell... tongue and aroma... body and physical touch...

Once it is discerned that intellect and thought, touch, feeling and what ever arises around the home intellect is not real, no refuge, not under ones controll, without any lasting essence, getting disenchanted from this home arises, from this stand, and gains independency and release form the intellect and ideas.

Once having left home/stand, knowing on how things are, no more longing for another arises, the task done, no more for this world, any stand, released, the Unbond, Deathless reached.

Atma thought that this will explain all notions, angles on householder at once and give vision and release.

May Nyom angela and all others, Nyom Cheav Villa ... always find much time to let go of home/stand, whether outwardly still bond by debts or not: i.e live the Brahmachariya, a holly life.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 11:22:50 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Online Cheav Villa

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Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

Since Ear, eye, nose, tongue, body… till Jhana is inconstant..

May all under instruction of the Buddha Dhamma and Sangha seeking and discerning right in developing the Bramavihara untill reached peace.

 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 02:45:36 PM by Cheav Villa »

Offline Johann

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Sadhu, yes. The dwelling, home, stand in any kind of state, what ever concentration, isn't real and fabricated, yet good to chose one of the refined homes for a living of the holly life. Dwellings, pleasure depending on the five sense is not only raw, but cause much suffering, for oneself and many, is the reason for conflicts, killing, stealing... wars.

The realm of the Brahmas is one pleasing dwelling, also to investigate the circle of becoming. And a dwelling that does not really depend on others lose. So

Thus far the Buddha has shown the practice of mettā meditation which can reach up to the attainment of the third mettā jhāna[1]. Being called the 'Divine Living', this attainment is still a mundane level of peace.
He now proceeds to mention in the last verse the practice of insight meditation (vipassanā) by stating:

10. And not holding to [wrong] view,
Being virtuous, endowed with right vision,
And discarding desire for sensual pleasures,
One surely never again will be reborn in a womb.

The aim of insight meditation is firstly the not holding to or the complete freedom from wrong view (micchā diṭṭhi). It is the decisive liberating practice for the removal of wrong view and the culmination of that perfect peace, nibbāna. The resulting attainment is called the 'Noble Living' (ariya-vihāra), and is the supramundane level of peace. It comprises the four supramundane 'fruition attainments' (phala-samāpatti), namely, the fruition of Stream-entry (sotāpatti-phala), Once-return (sakadāgāmi-), Non-return (anāgāmi-) and Arahantship (arahatta-phala).
 1. Classical Mahavihara tradition, Abhidhamma, Commentary Tradition, as Bhantes, deny that four Jhana and Arahatship can be reached by means of metta

This is also the way of unshakeable relation-ship to the Buddha and Noble Ones, a relation not possible to decay, to break apart, no more needing hard maintaining and gaining, relation with highes peace.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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