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Talkbox

Like when enter or join, a shrine, another's sphere, or back: good for greating, bye, veneration, short talks, quick help. Some infos on regards .


2024 Mar 24 19:07:11
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ 😌

2024 Mar 24 14:13:29
blazer: Bhante Dhammañāṇa  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Mar 24 06:25:25
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed full moon Uposatha by following the conducts of the Arahats.

2024 Mar 23 13:11:16
blazer: Hello everyone  _/\_

2024 Mar 21 01:07:56
Dhammañāṇa: Nyom

2024 Mar 21 00:28:58
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Mar 20 14:25:49
blazer: Bhante Dhammañāṇa  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Mar 20 12:06:29
Dhammañāṇa: Nyom

2024 Mar 20 11:24:06
blazer: Good morning everyone  _/\_

2024 Mar 18 21:42:50
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Mar 18 19:43:59
Dhammañāṇa: Mudita, Nyom.

2024 Mar 18 19:36:35
blazer: Bhante Dhammañāṇa  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Undertaking this Sila day at my best.

2024 Mar 18 06:17:10
Dhammañāṇa: Those who undertake the Sila day today: may it be of much metta.

2024 Mar 18 02:16:41
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Mar 17 21:09:31
អរិយវង្ស: 🚬🚬🚬

2024 Mar 17 06:30:53
Dhammañāṇa: Metta-full Sila day, those after it today.

2024 Mar 17 00:02:34
blazer: Bhante Dhammañāṇa  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Mar 11 09:16:04
Dhammañāṇa: Once totally caught by google, AI and machines, every door has been closed for long, long term.

2024 Mar 11 09:14:04
Dhammañāṇa: People at large just wait that another would do his/her duty. Once a slight door to run back, they are gone. By going again just for debts, the wheel of running away turns on.

2024 Mar 10 18:59:10
Dhammañāṇa: Less are those who don't use the higher Dhamma not for defilement-defence, less those who don't throw the basics away and turn back to sensuality "with ease".

2024 Mar 10 06:51:11
Dhammañāṇa: A auspicious new-moon Uposatha for those observing it today.

2024 Mar 09 06:34:39
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed New-moon Uposatha, and birth reminder day of a monarchy of wonders.

2024 Mar 08 21:39:54
Dhammañāṇa: The best way to keep an Ashram silent is to put always duties and Sila high. If wishing it populated, put meditation (eating) on the first place.

2024 Mar 03 21:27:27
Dhammañāṇa: May those undertaking the Sila day today, spend it off in best ways, similar those who go after the days purpose tomorrow.

2024 Feb 25 22:10:33
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 24 06:42:35
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Māgha Pūjā and Full moon Uposatha with much reason for good recallings of goodness.

2024 Feb 24 01:50:55
blazer: Bhante Dhammañāṇa  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 23 06:39:57
Dhammañāṇa: Nyom

2024 Feb 23 00:19:58
blazer: Taken flu again... at least leg pain has been better managed since many weeks and it's the greatest benefit. Hope Bhante Dhammañāṇa is fine  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 18 01:06:43
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 18 00:02:37
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 17 18:47:31
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed rest of todays Sila-day.

2024 Feb 17 18:46:59
Dhammañāṇa: Chau Marco, chau...

2024 Feb 16 23:32:59
blazer: Just ended important burocratic and medical stuff. I will check for a flight for Cambodia soon  _/\_

2024 Feb 09 16:08:32
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 09 12:17:31
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 09 06:42:17
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a blessed New moon Uposatha and last day of the Chinese year of the rabbit, entering the Year of the Naga wisely.

2024 Feb 02 21:17:28
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Feb 02 19:53:28
Dhammañāṇa: May all have the possibility to spend a pleasing rest of Sila day, having given goodness and spend a faultless day.

2024 Jan 26 14:40:25
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Jan 25 10:02:46
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a blessed Full moon Uposatha.

2024 Jan 11 06:37:21
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Jan 07 06:31:20
Dhammañāṇa: May many, by skilful deeds,  go for real and lasting independence today

2024 Jan 06 18:00:36
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Jan 04 16:57:17
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2024 Jan 04 12:33:08
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Sila-day, full of metta in thoughts, speech and deeds.

2023 Dec 30 20:21:07
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Dec 27 23:18:38
Dhammañāṇa: May the rest of a bright full moon Uposatha serve many as a blessed day of good deeds.

2023 Dec 26 23:12:17
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Dec 24 16:52:50
Dhammañāṇa: May all who celebrated the birth of their prophet, declaring them his ideas of reaching the Brahma realm, spend peaceful days with family and reflect the goodness near around them, virtuous, generously.

2023 Dec 20 21:36:37
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Dec 20 06:54:09
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Sila day, by conducting in peacefull manners.

2023 Dec 12 23:45:24
blazer:  _/\_

2023 Dec 12 20:34:26
Dhammañāṇa: choice, yes  :)

2023 Dec 12 13:23:35
blazer: If meaning freedom of choice i understand and agree

2023 Dec 12 12:48:42
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Dec 12 06:13:23
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a great New Moon Uposatha, following the conducts of the Arahats.

2023 Dec 10 12:51:16
Dhammañāṇa: The more freedom of joice, the more troubled in regard of what's right, what's wrong. My person does not say that people at large are prepared for freedom of joice even a little.

2023 Dec 10 10:59:42
blazer: Hope they eat more mindfully than how they talk. It is clear for the gross food, we had more than a talk about this topic. I have put so much effort in mindful eating at the temple, but when i was back i wanted more refined food. I was used to get a choice of more than 10 dishes every day

2023 Dec 10 06:57:44
Dhammañāṇa: A person eating on unskilled thoughts will last defiled, Nyom. Gross food does nothing for purification at all.

2023 Dec 09 21:41:58
blazer: I've had a couple of not nice experiences with monks that were not so pure in my opinion. They surely eat far better than me at temple.

2023 Dec 09 21:41:41
blazer: Ven. Johann  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Dec 09 11:38:36
Dhammañāṇa: Spiritual prostitution, just another way of livelihood.

2023 Dec 05 20:59:38
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a pleasing rest of Sila-day.

2023 Nov 27 14:47:22
អរិយវង្ស:   _/\_ _/\__/\_

2023 Nov 27 05:41:32
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a blessed Anapanasati- Fullmoon and reflect the goodness of Ven Sāriputta as well today.

2023 Nov 20 19:18:13
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Nov 20 18:20:15
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a pleasing rest of Sila-day.

2023 Nov 20 02:48:24
Moritz: Hello _/\_ Still possible to join: An-other Journey into the East 2023/24

2023 Nov 18 13:55:11
blazer: Hello everyone  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Nov 12 01:09:01
Dhammañāṇa: Nyom

2023 Nov 12 00:45:21
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Nov 09 19:42:10
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Nov 09 07:17:02
Dhammañāṇa: សិលា​នាំ​ទៅ​រក​ឯករាជ្យ​នៃ​ជាតិ! សូមឱ្យមនុស្សជាច្រើនប្រារព្ធទិវាឯករាជ្យ(ពី)ជាតិ។

2023 Nov 09 07:06:56
Dhammañāṇa: Sila leads to independence of Jati! May many observe a conductive Independence day.

2023 Nov 07 00:54:02
Dhammañāṇa: Nyoum

2023 Nov 07 00:39:55
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Nov 06 15:47:51
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Nov 06 12:21:27
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Sila observation day today.

2023 Oct 30 15:17:36
Dhammañāṇa: It's common in to give up that what's given to do assist me toward release, common that seeking security in what binds.

2023 Oct 30 13:22:27
អរិយវង្ស: ព្រះអង្គ :) កូណាលុប delta chat ហើយ :D _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Oct 23 18:56:09
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Oct 22 20:36:01
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a pleasing rest of this Sila-day.

2023 Oct 19 20:31:12
Dhammañāṇa: Nyom Sreyneang

2023 Oct 15 07:07:01
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Oct 14 06:53:21
Dhammañāṇa: May all spend a New moon Uposatha based on goodwill for all, find seclusion in the middle of family duties.

2023 Sep 29 07:35:30
blazer:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Sep 29 07:23:47
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Sep 29 07:03:11
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed full moon Uposatha and begin of the ancestor weeks by lived metta and virtue: lived gratitude toward all being, toward one self.

2023 Sep 22 22:07:43
Dhammañāṇa: If no rush turn toward reducing sensuality and make Silas the top of priority, it's to fear that an Atomic conflic will be chosen soon, in the battle of control of the "drugs".

2023 Sep 22 14:59:39
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Sep 22 06:35:51
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Uposatha Observance on this Sila-day, by conducting similar the Arahats.

2023 Sep 16 19:29:27
blazer: Ven. Johann  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Sep 16 19:29:13
blazer: Hello everyone! I've just come back home. I had a long trip and no sleep for more than 30 hours, but currently feel quite good. I've had a good experience, i'm happy. I've found out much inspiration and many ideas about the training and the holy life. I'll recollect and write about them as soon as i've taken some rest. Hope to find you all well and in good health  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Sep 15 05:25:24
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2023 Sep 14 21:09:49
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed rest of New moon Uposatha today (later as no connection before).

2023 Sep 10 01:55:47
អរិយវង្ស:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_?

2023 Sep 09 18:52:54
Dhammañāṇa: No existence, no 'way of life', can excel the finally journey, just 'busy' in given away all of what ever made one's own. A total remorse-less existence. May many go for it, and see the way toward the deathless, no more worry of past, future and present as well.

2023 Sep 09 18:52:28
Dhammañāṇa: No existence, no 'way of life', can excel the finally journey, just 'busy' in given away all of what ever made one's own. A total remorse-less existence. May many go for it, and see the way toward the deathless, no more worry of past, future and present as well.

2023 Sep 08 06:19:20
Dhammañāṇa: A blessed Sila day, by maintaining goodwill toward all, not only by deeds and speech, but with nine factors, incl. a mind full of metta.

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Author Topic: Which standard: (a)ṁ or (a)ŋ or (a)ṃ and how to handle ṅ?  (Read 1677 times)

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Offline Dhammañāṇa

  • Bhikkhu
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  • Sadhu! or +417/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • (Samana Johann)
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527 Upasampadā 20240110
My person, thinking that a single standard is very needed to easy handle all the scripts at ati.eu is still not sure which standard to follow.

(a) (ISO 15919) is actually my persons preference, since it reminds not only on the circle used in many traditional scripts above the letter but also on the position of the tongue. It's also used by the elders and those not depriving from modern scholars (found merely outwardly of the tradition). Disadvantages are that the letter is far not so common in certain char-sets and often not visible. Software is at large designed for the second version.

(a) (ALA-LC) is the broad used standard but it does not only easy lead toward a "sanskrit pronunciation" but can be easy mistaken with the Sanskrit letter "ṃ".

(a)ŋ is maybe even more pleasing in right distinction, yet it goes easy in conflict with which seems to be actually already a derived form of .

If it would be like traditional scripts, just a sign above: Sំ or Saំ not Saṁ, or Saṃ or Saŋ and it's special Saṅ, it would be somehow more easier: more សំ, united, bond together, so to speak.

Never found any deeper elaboration on the "mystic" sam vs. sang, yet pronouncing of certain kamma is made in two ways to get not the wrong, it remains possible for may a mystic.

Maybe Bhante Varado , out of compassion, might be willing and able to share liberating hints and advice here.

This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Dhammañāṇa

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  • Sadhu! or +417/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • (Samana Johann)
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527 Upasampadā 20240110
Re: Which standard: (a)ṁ or (a)ŋ or (a)ṃ and how to handle ṅ?
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2019, 06:19:47 PM »
Quote from: Bhante via email
Dear Venerable Johann,

Which should we use: ṁ ṃ or ŋ?

Note that ṃ is favoured by the Pali Text Society in the latest Pali Dictionary by Margaret Cone, and also on the VRI Chatthaya Sangha ROM. For the sake of harmony, I recommend we follow their lead. The Pali Text Society has established itself as the world authority in terms of Roman lettering. VRI is likewise worthy of respect This can hardly be ignored.

... [splitt into new topic]

All best wishes,

Varado

Sadhu, Bhante Varado for the generosity of share some additional bases. It how ever, reflects a very "western", "householder-scholar" way and as usual total ignores the Sangha as actually authority.
ṁ was actually used by the Pali Text Sociaty at the beginnings, probably switched to ṃ since more common in computer systems, char-sets.
The Thai Sangha uses ṁ, so also the western Dhammayut order.
ṃ may cause future troubles in mixing it with the Sanskrik ṃ.
ŋ is often used by learned Monks from Sri Lanka.

My person does not think that it is "for the sake of productivity" proper to just follow "householder-tradition", yet surely more easy when tending to depend on "householders" and their means rather than of what the Sangha owns.

As not interested to produce GNU things, but dedicate for those having left home, my person thinks it's good to consider such well.

...[parts splitt off into new topic]

* Johann : Bhante could easier and given communicate direct. Just pushing replay bottom. If there are technical hindrances, may Bhante please let it be known. If other reasons, no problem to email either.

Of course those are just my persons thoughts, carring about proper ways and means first, and as not in a market-battle, just that of what is possible.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2019, 11:03:31 AM by Johann »
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Use of third part sources, share of heritage, taking on trust.
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2019, 11:06:04 AM »

Aramika   *

Ein oder mehrer Beiträge wurden hier im Thema abgeschnitten und damit in neues Thema "Use of third part sources, share of heritage, taking on trust. " eröffnet, dem angehäng.
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Re: Which standard: (a)ṁ or (a)ŋ or (a)ṃ and how to handle ṅ?
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2019, 11:59:33 AM »
ŋ is carefully used for Pali by PTS in works comparing different languages, like in their dictionary, to avoid confusion with the Sanskrit m-dot letter. It's actually a very common character, U+014B, having not really a serious Uppercase. The Problem is that the character causes easy confusion with , the fifth letter, last of the first row

deprives from the "Latin Extended Additional", U+1E41 upper case U+1E40 (certain browsers do not support it, my Person does not see it in Chrome- Android, for example)

U+1E43, upper case U+1E40. Even near the above most browser and scripts support it.

Reading a little, the modern use of dot-under is seemingly a ISTA-convention and not really originated in older traditions:

In the Devanagari script, anusvara is represented with a dot (bindu) above the letter (e.g. मं). In the International Alphabet of Sanskrit Transliteration (IAST), the corresponding symbol is ṃ (m with an underdot). Some transcriptions render notation of phonetic variants used in some Vedic shakhas with variant transcription (ṁ).

In writing Sanskrit, the anusvara is often used as an alternative representation of the nasal stop with the same place of articulation as the following plosive. For example, [əŋɡə] 'limb (of the body)' may be written with either a conjunct, अङ्ग aṅga, or with an anusvara, अंग aṃga. A variant of the anusvara, the anunāsika or 'candrabindu', was used more explicitly for nasalized vowels, as in अँश aṃśa for [ə̃ɕə] 'portion'.[7]

Underdot has actually a total different pronouncing:

In Inari Sami, an underdot denotes a half-long voiced consonant: đ̣, j̣, ḷ, ṃ, ṇ, ṇj, ŋ̣, ṛ, and ṿ. The underdot is used in dictionaries, textbooks, and linguistic publications only....

The underdot is also used in the Devanagari script, where it is called nukta.

ISTA:

The International Alphabet of Sanskrit Transliteration (IAST) is a transliteration scheme that allows the lossless romanization of Indic scripts as employed by Sanskrit and related Indic languages. It is based on a scheme that emerged during the nineteenth century from suggestions by Charles Trevelyan, William Jones, Monier Monier-Williams and other scholars, and formalised by the Transliteration Committee of the Geneva Oriental Congress, in September 1894.[1] IAST makes it possible for the reader to read the Indic text unambiguously, exactly as if it were in the original Indic script. It is this faithfulness to the original scripts that accounts for its continuing popularity amongst scholars.

As thought this usual deprives from Hindi, Brahmic, Mahayana and norther traditions, later, prefering also the "am" spelling rather then the in the Pali Tradition used "ang" spelling. Of which first usually is not understood in traditional countries when citing Pali.

It's a matter of nature that "on-householding"-traditions are most influent global.

Nobody, so serious it is, in the west, would understand when one says "Sangsara" instead of "Samsara". Thats a sample of the two worlds. The use of the Sanskrik m with dot below, simply puts into the decay of traditional Pali pronouncing. Who would think much only some years ago after change. In ten years, with the decay of citing traditions, with the missing of differences, it would be simply gone.

Best, since its used as a diacritic also in other traditional scripts, would be to follow here with a diacritic also in roman script, possible making use of the most used ring above as well. Saំsar(a), Saំveg(a). Saំំgh(a) or Saṅgh(a)?

This is something my person would give the Venerables to consider wisely and it's never really of long term disadvantage to accept burdens and bear limited global acceptance.

It would be, as the occation seem proper to express, good if the Sangha and it's language would be given autonomous language recognition, incl. fonts, characters and unicode block. This matters actually many different scripts, and thinking on Khmer transliterations and ways in action, following "productivity" it destroys a lot and nobody will in 1 or two generation be able to trace origins any more.

Yet of course its something only those in worldly charge, if wise and attentive, could order and give, and not the result of "marxists" natural laws conducted by crowd work and flow.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2019, 12:22:35 PM by Johann »
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Re: Which standard: (a)ṁ or (a)ŋ or (a)ṃ and how to handle ṅ?
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2019, 12:56:19 PM »
In which way would be Venerable prefer their heritage be rendered, independent from possible preasures in regard of the common issues in the worlds of trade, productivity and livelihoods, so that it would be of long term benefit for the Sublime Sangha as carrier of the Gems in this world? My person trust that he does not possible disturb on useless ground.

Maybe, aside of Bhante Varado ,  Bhante Nyanadassana , Bhante Ariyadhammika , Bhante Indaññāno , Bhante Hasapanno , Bhante Khematto , Bhante Thanuttamo ,  Bhante Bodhi  , community of Wat metta ( Dhammatalks  ), to adress only some (please may all Venerables feel main part of it) of the Venerables direct, would like to share their wisdom and preferences here, so that others could follow and possible arrange things joyfully.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2019, 01:10:40 PM by Johann »
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