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Talkbox

2019 Nov 14 22:46:22
Johann: Atma leaves the paranimmita-vasavatti deva and nimmanarati deva now to find good birth by themself, no more power left.

2019 Nov 14 22:00:48
Cheav Villa: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 14 21:39:00
Johann: Duties and Silas are words of same meaning, denoting "proper conduct and giving in ones relations where ne desires to have a good and safe stand"

2019 Nov 14 21:25:51
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 14 21:21:02
Johann: May all have good rest at the end of day, done ones duties or even a blessed done merits after that as well. My person is now off of energy and good to rest as well.

2019 Nov 14 13:43:11
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 14 10:35:51
Johann: Respecting the Devas one gains their respect and protection.

2019 Nov 14 10:34:40
Johann: Bhante. (Meawmane is a spirit from a Server in Bangkok)

2019 Nov 14 10:28:52
Khemakumara: Nyom Meawmane

2019 Nov 14 10:27:53
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante

2019 Nov 13 20:44:51
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 13 20:28:20
Johann: Bhante  _/\_ Nyom, Nyom

2019 Nov 13 13:19:14
Cheav Villa: Kana Bhante :) _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 13 11:54:18
Johann: Mahā (written), not moha (following civil transliteration of khmer, very unuseful, better following pali transliteration) "Deluded Wisdom Monastery" could be understood while "Great Wisdom Monastery"  :)

2019 Nov 13 10:22:14
Johann: mudita

2019 Nov 13 09:56:41
Cheav Villa: Kana now at Panha Moha Viheara, waiting for  Bhikkuni

2019 Nov 13 09:47:10
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 12 08:01:41
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 12 05:35:02
Khemakumara:  Sīlena nibbutiṁ yanti. Through virtue they go to Unbinding. May it be a fruit-and pathful Uposatha day.

2019 Nov 11 16:41:52
Varado: Happily indeed we live, we, for whom there is [nowhere] anything at all. We will feed on rapture like the Ābhassarā devas. Dh.v.200.

2019 Nov 11 11:40:45
Johann: Ven. Sirs  _/\_ (Kana trust that leave for some rest will not reduce Bhantes releasing joy here)

2019 Nov 11 11:13:48
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 11 11:06:19
Johann: May it be an auspicious end of the Vassa of the Noble ones, a deep Anapanasati day today, for all conducting the full moon uposatha today.

2019 Nov 11 06:00:43
Johann: " Happy/peaceful the area/custom of the Arahats, craving and wandering on having layed aside"?

2019 Nov 11 03:22:11
Johann: Of which would mean what, Lok Ta, if not wishing to use google or not given means?

2019 Nov 10 23:54:03
Varado: Sukhino vata arahanto taṇhā tesaṃ na vijjati _/\_

2019 Nov 10 19:51:07
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Ariyadhammika

2019 Nov 10 17:54:44
Johann: ភនតេ វ៉ាលិ

2019 Nov 10 14:42:47
Johann: Lok Ta  _/\_

2019 Nov 09 16:31:12
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  :) _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 09 16:25:14
Johann: May Nyom and all have a safe travel

2019 Nov 09 16:03:41
Cheav Villa: Kana and kids Plan to go to Aural tomorrow, will leave Phnom Penh at 5am  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 09 15:41:39
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 09 15:37:40
Johann: Bhante Ariyadhammica, Nyom Villa

2019 Nov 09 15:35:16
Johann: Sadhu

2019 Nov 09 14:56:15
Varado: Homage to the Noble Sangha _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 09 14:55:15
Varado: Blessed is the arising of Buddhas. Blessed is the explaining of the true teaching. Blessed is concord in the community of bhikkhus. Of those in concord, blessed is their practice of austerity.

2019 Nov 09 14:53:06
Johann: Ven Grandfather, Nyom Annaleana,

2019 Nov 09 01:57:47
Moritz: Vandami, Bhante Varado _/\_

2019 Nov 09 01:43:05
Varado: Pūjā ca pūjanīyānaṃ

2019 Nov 09 00:44:14
Johann: Worthy those on path or reached the aim

2019 Nov 08 22:36:29
Varado: Homage to those elder bhikkhus of long-standing who have long gone forth, the fathers and leaders of the Sangha. _/\_

2019 Nov 08 20:16:23
Johann: May the Venerables allow my persons leave, running out of battery.  _/\_

2019 Nov 08 20:09:51
Johann: Sadhu, Sadhu!

2019 Nov 08 20:09:14
Varado: Homage to Good Friends. For this is the entire holy life. _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 08 20:07:04
Varado: Homage to the Good Friends. For this is the entire holy life. _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 08 19:29:09
Varado: Thanks for summary. I send article on milk. Anything else?

2019 Nov 08 18:53:24
Varado: Also greed, hatred, and delusion. Tīni akusalamūlāni: lobho akusalamūlaṃ doso akusalamūlaṃ moho akusalamūlaṃ (D.3.214).

2019 Nov 08 18:36:34
Johann: So does it, so does it, for Bhikkhus, layman, laywoman as well. And what is the root of stinginess? Ingratitude (wrong view).

2019 Nov 08 18:30:56
Varado: Possessing five qualities, a bhikkhuni is deposited in hell as if brought there. What five? She is miserly with dwellings, families, gains, praise, and the Dhamma (A.3.139). Pañcahi bhikkhave dhammehi samannāgatā bhikkhunī yathābhataṃ nikkhittā evaṃ niraye: katamehi pañcahi: Āvāsamaccha

2019 Nov 08 18:23:39
Varado: Macchariya for lodgings, maybe?

2019 Nov 08 18:01:17
Johann: Kana saw that Bhikkhunis has even a rule in regard of macchariya, for Vineyya in their Vinaya.

2019 Nov 08 17:58:14
Johann: So does it dear Ven. Grandfather, so does it. Amacchariya is the domain of the Noble Ones, beginning by the stream to the complete of stinginess's root.

2019 Nov 08 17:51:33
Varado: Having eliminated the stain of stinginess together with its origin, they are beyond criticism.

2019 Nov 08 17:35:15
Johann: ...and "Vineyya maccheramalaṁ samūlaṁ aninditā"

2019 Nov 08 17:29:21
Johann: These Devas and Brahmas...  :) mudita

2019 Nov 08 16:53:41
Varado: May the Buddha bless you. May the Dhamma shine on you. May Wat Ayum be a refuge to many. For any possible help with questions, please email. My pleasure.

2019 Nov 08 13:55:57
Johann: ..."This shows that the Buddha would not be troubled by those who become angry and resentful, but by those who are strongly opinionated and who relinquish their views reluctantly...."

2019 Nov 08 09:27:01
Johann: Ven. Bhantes

2019 Nov 08 09:23:11
Khemakumara:   _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Ariyadhammika

2019 Nov 08 06:26:12
Johann: It was four days after closing that decreased in last instance

2019 Nov 08 06:15:13
Moritz: The bot traffic is not decreasing.

2019 Nov 08 06:15:10
Johann: Ayasma Moritz

2019 Nov 08 06:14:53
Moritz: (was logged in long time before, but not at PC)

2019 Nov 08 06:14:52
Johann: Ayasama Moritz

2019 Nov 08 06:14:06
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 08 02:08:55
Moritz: Sadhu _/\_ May Bhante bear and overcome all sickness well _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 08 02:05:42
Khemakumara: Khantı paramaṁ tapo tītikkhā. Patient forbearance is the highest austerity

2019 Nov 08 02:01:46
Khemakumara: lack of energy because of sickness of the body (boils) Nyom Moritz

2019 Nov 08 01:53:48
Khemakumara: Meister Moritz

2019 Nov 08 01:52:12
Moritz: Hoping Bhante is well _/\_

2019 Nov 08 01:51:55
Moritz: Vandami Bhante (Khemakumara) _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 07 20:02:22
Johann: enery, battery saysfinish for now... may there be food for liberation be found and got touched by many independently.

2019 Nov 07 20:00:16
Johann: Every being, even without capacity to gain higher, is worthy of metta, worthy to be not harmed in existance, worthy to help in times of needing the four paccayas, Ven. Grandfather.

2019 Nov 07 19:37:39
Visitor: Let us treat those with Buddhanature with the respect appropriate to future Buddhas.

2019 Nov 07 19:01:03
Johann: Maybe an inspirig topic on the matter How should I express Mudita or Joy for all beings? for all having access (upanissaya).

2019 Nov 07 18:56:59
Johann: Sadhu, Sadhu. That's how mudita is good understood in relation with "Buddhanature"

2019 Nov 07 18:54:52
Visitor: Homage to all those with Buddhanature. _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 07 18:53:59
Visitor:  Homage to all the Buddhas.  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 07 18:28:47
Johann: Dear lok ta Visitor

2019 Nov 07 17:29:02
Cheav Villa:  _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 07 17:24:12
Johann: Don't worry either, yet perfect if visiting the Nuns. Mudita

2019 Nov 07 17:21:15
Cheav Villa: About the medicin called loṇasociraka, Kana will take time to go to Visit Wat Panha to ask her for detail  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 07 17:21:05
Johann: Cetana counts, the own one, Nyom.

2019 Nov 07 17:18:42
Johann: May Nyom not worry to much about it. My person guesses Nyom Chanroth might have lot of joy in the idea of planting. While Cacaco is fine, yet not a need or request, it's something that can be gained in shops.

2019 Nov 07 17:09:57
Cheav Villa: Kana now seen without Sila… someone could not tell the truth 

2019 Nov 07 17:01:13
Cheav Villa: Kana ordered 5kg via web, phoned them 2days ago but still no delivery cause of no confirmation since he still abroad now

2019 Nov 07 16:49:17
Cheav Villa: But the Cacao company in Mondolkiri doesnt allowed, they sale Cacao beans.

2019 Nov 07 16:47:38
Cheav Villa: Kana Bhante  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ as he informed to bring only Cacao fruits for Bhante could make and use of medecine againts Malaria

2019 Nov 07 16:20:48
Johann: Indeed releasing investigation cause hunger and no food can be expected at the end as well.

2019 Nov 07 16:18:35
Johann: When homeless effort is requested, no joy in sacrificing into it. Oh this monks... of modern world.  :)

2019 Nov 07 16:16:59
Johann: Oh this monks  :) When household effort can be made for favor and house, all engaged...

2019 Nov 07 14:17:18
Johann: Āyasmā Moritz (Master, a usual address for skilled lay people in the Tipitaka)

2019 Nov 06 17:27:06
Cheav Villa: Master Moritz _/\_

2019 Nov 06 17:23:52
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2019 Nov 06 17:23:46
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Nov 06 00:13:12
Vithou:  _/\_

2019 Nov 05 22:47:19
Moritz: Hello Visitor! _/\_

2019 Nov 05 16:44:34
Johann: ...and that is good! Cacao

2019 Nov 05 16:31:04
Cheav Villa: Kana Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ :)

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[Buddha]

Author Topic: Undertaking to end "Dialogue on Copyright Infringement and Vinaya"  (Read 1097 times)

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Online Johann

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 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

Ven. members of the Sangha,
Ven. fellows,

my person perceived, as often strongly expressed, the publications by leading BMC in westerns of Ven. Thanissaro and followed by Ven. Varado , in regard of "Copyright Infringement and Vinaya" as strongly harmful for the reputation of the Buddha, the Dhamma and the Sangha, not to speak in regard of the kammic effects of adoption of those views.

Largely my person perceived as well that a huge amount of monks adopted this view and that it also growed popular under those used to steal, encouraging to continue the bad action of taking what is not given.

Shortly my person perceived an undertaking as seemingly trying to relinquish this view, coming across a "Dialogue on Copyright Infringement and Vinaya ", by the Sangha of Sasanarakkha, of which Ven. Ariyadhammika is now part (probably joined after this dialog). My persons perception says it didn't came to an successful end.

My person, if the Ven. feel given to work out wrong grasped into right public visible, dedicated for the Sangha, would like to invite Ven. Ariyadhammika and Ven. Varado to try to end endangering dialoges and statements still open to do a lot of harm toward the reputation of the Gems and are something that "matters the world", here.

Not sure if it would help, my person likes to link "Stealing and taking what is not given " as possible support.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2019, 07:03:31 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Online Johann

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Re: Undertaking to end "Dialogue on Copyright Infringement and Vinaya"
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2019, 12:55:43 PM »
To do not give possible space of more existential reputation harm for the tripple Gems, and foremost the Sangha, by citing texts and views reflected by Publications in the BMC, by Ven. Thanissaro, "Copyright Infringement and Vinaya", by Ven. Varado, as it could lead to an even more Global perception, that monks have to be seen as high potential thieves and enemies of every peaceful common society:

My person asks here again, foremost Ven. Thanissaro and Ven. Varado, to relinquish their evil views in this regard, reflected in their broad cited publications; to destroy what ever possible pifall, at least by publishing a revocation of works reflecting those evil views, that there is nothing given, nothing sacrificed, i.e. "making a not given copy, taking on it, use it, holding control over it" isn't "taking what is not given by the owner".

My person asks the Sangha of the eight direction to assist to help to relinquish this evil view penetrating not only the most of the younger monks, and to seek for the best judges on Vinaya to possible repair of what can be repaired.

The longer things like:

"It is using a service without paying for it. Emotionally it may feel like theft, but how can it be theft when nothing gets stolen? Unlike physical objects, infor¬mation is not something that can be personally owned. A car can be owned, but not the design of a car. If someone copies a design of a car, there are then two cars; but there are not then two designs. The car can be stolen, but not the design. Similarly, books and CDs can be owned, but not the information on them. The concept of ‘stealing information’ is simply an illusion. Thus infringing copyright should not be seen as theft."

..., or "only if a physical object is moved (leaves it previous physical places) can there be taking what is not given",

soon possible followed by "spying, taking and using not given information, violation trade-, company-, industry secret...are no violations of taking what is not given, no base for "defeat"...

are perceived as the perception of the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha by many, it can be assumed that in not long time the tripple Gems are generally perceived as criminals, state and society enemies, should be seen as the "religious/political" arm of the anonymous-movement, faceless, criminals, ...

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

Should any bhikkhu, in what is reckoned a theft, take what is not given from an inhabited area or from the wilderness — just as when, in the taking of what is not given, kings arresting the criminal would flog, imprison, or banish him, saying, "You are a robber, you are a fool, you are benighted, you are a thief" — a bhikkhu in the same way taking what is not given also is defeated and no longer in affiliation.
Quote from: The Buddha
« Last Edit: October 16, 2019, 03:07:56 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Online Johann

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Re: Undertaking to end "Dialogue on Copyright Infringement and Vinaya"
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2019, 06:27:22 AM »
Like a person making use of the heartwood possession, the heir, the heavy good of the Sangha, the Dhamma of the Buddha, to bribe laypeople and monks and court their support is recognized as biggest thief of the world, a monk who copies of what has not been given from a village or the internet, not to speak if even for the mentioned purpose, is defeated and no longer in affiliation.

Monks, you are living in the times of the greatest thieves, for the most under them, with them, in dependency on them. If not undertaking to turn away from what has been arose, when not rejecting of what arises by wrong means, you and your "clan" is recognized as a tribe of thieves, in and of themselves, no more as the Sangha of the Buddha.


Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

”'Conquered by eight untrue dhammas, his mind overcome, Devadatta (the dispora of Robin hood, Sujato and the many like a like) is headed for a state of deprivation, headed for hell, there to stay for an eon, incurable. Which eight?

“'Conquered by material gain, his mind overcome, Devadatta is headed for a state of deprivation, headed for hell, there to stay for an eon, incurable.

”'Conquered by lack of material gain…

“'Conquered by status…

”'Conquered by lack of status…

“'Conquered by offerings…

”'Conquered by lack of offerings…

“'Conquered by evil ambition…

”'Conquered by evil friendship, his mind overcome, Devadatta is headed for a state of deprivation, headed for hell, there to stay for an eon, incurable.

”'Therefore, monks, you should train yourselves: 'We will keep conquering again & again any arisen material gain… any arisen lack of material gain… any arisen status… any arisen lack of status… any arisen offerings… any arisen lack of offerings… any arisen evil ambition… any arisen evil friendship.' That's how you should train yourselves.'
« Last Edit: October 20, 2019, 07:12:30 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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Re: Undertaking to end "Dialogue on Copyright Infringement and Vinaya"
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2019, 06:43:19 AM »
Bhante Thanissaro, Bhante Varado , Bhante Ariyadhammika , and what ever possible still Bhikkhu, monk, follower of the Buddha.

If not preferring to lead your self toward hell, lead many toward hell, do the last that makes it impossible to live the holy life under the Buddha, if not wishing that monks are general perceived as worthless thieves encouraging to thieving, stupid in ways of perception, greedy and as useless regarded by the world and treated as dirt: destroy this view (incl. the same wired passages in the BMC and other documents shared by "monks", destroy all supports and traps promoting this view, make amend if possible to find someone not having fallen into this transgression. Out of compassion for yourself at first place and real compassion for the world. Pseudo-liberalisum is a huge grave thief! Is you belly and and desires worth enough to set the world on fire?

This is not a matter of civil but of heavy criminal law and a encouragement toward outlaw. Even if not having acted in taking what is not given based on those foolish ideas, if someone acts on it, relays on it, the declarer, approver, of such grave wrong views can expect to be defeated, at least will rest with doubts in this state for the rest of his live, incapable of paths fruits and not even Jhana if not making public amends like-a-like!

This can be only total foolish people who tell the world: "You could steal that, yet you will nevertheless reach heavens, prosperity, paths, fruits and even liberation".



Anybody in charge who says: "Catch those monks, beat them, imprison them, and if not relinghish that view, execute them", wouldn't be regarded as unrighteous leader, as he would defend the security and possession of hard having worked people. And we don't speak of larger thieves connected with the matter here yet, wars, battles, thieves on it that can bring the world in seconds burning all over, think on security codes...

You must be total out of any sign, any mind not pound to hell as it seems!

Speaking further clear, out of compassion: Neither do you have slightest ideas about the worldly laws and impacts nor have you reached even Jhana, not to speak of path or fruit, correct my person if wrong. Only to declare such in and of itself is already a grave offense and against, not to speak about the slander of the Tathagata and the lack of compassion toward the world. And your ideas are based on popular views spread on island known as "European criminals colony". Be clear that Dhamma-Vinaya never arises down-under and next or related to it.

It's not a sign of compassion to lift up akusala to kusala for the sake of wandering on, for the sake of increasing the cemeteries, wars and conflicts for some homies, full of transgressions, relaxations, not even for them.

This is a matter of the world, a very real downfall matter, no matter whether it touches only one person or even whole Sanghas. It is to be assumed that the whole western/modern Sangha has fallen into grave transgression. It is to be assumed that they even lack to have a possibility to make amends if it still would be a possibility for them. It seems that the popular Sanghas are currently cut of the Savaka Sangha.

Being the case that 70%+ of material to take in this way in SEAsia is actually stolen, the matter feeds also religious motives in the arising world-war on that matter.

With the declaring of this evil view you steal the reputation of the Gems and the Noble Ones and althought the Gems are not to be taken of what they are, by this big thieve you are next to robbed any possibilities, so as those who approve grave akusala!

For the sake of the wellfare of many, for the sake of persistence of the tripple Gems: This is told to you by someone who will not, no more, return into this world. To be hopefully sure that this approach is not only a guess but out of knowing and seeing and to be sure that it's solvely rebuked out of compassion.

By the power of the Sublime Buddha, the Sublime Dhamma and the Sublime Sangha, now where 80% are already defeated, relinquish this view and destroy all pitfalls supporting this highway to hell!

(An while writing this the rats hunting 2m snake in the cave showed her body, allowed to get seen, right next, 1m above, while the sky became clear and sunny.)

[img]
user:johann:gallery:archiv2019:20191023_01.jpg

As for those not defeated yet and not directly involved in the Sanghas issues, may you consider to stay as well at a safe bet and to a world not falling into foolish anarchy of "living-room Arahat's" and "useless people":

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

A. "There are some contemplatives & brahmans who hold this doctrine, hold this view: 'There is nothing given, nothing offered, nothing sacrificed. There is no fruit or result of good or bad actions. There is no this world, no next world, no mother, no father, no spontaneously reborn beings; no brahmans or contemplatives who, faring rightly and practicing rightly, proclaim this world and the next after having directly known and realized it for themselves.'[1]

B. "Some contemplatives & brahmans, speaking in direct opposition to those contemplatives & brahmans, say this: 'There is what is given, what is offered, what is sacrificed. There are fruits & results of good & bad actions. There is this world & the next world. There is mother & father. There are spontaneously reborn beings; there are contemplatives & brahmans who, faring rightly & practicing rightly, proclaim this world & the next after having directly known & realized it for themselves.'

"What do you think, householders? Don't these contemplatives & brahmans speak in direct opposition to each other?"

"Yes, lord."

A1. "Now, householders, of those contemplatives & brahmans who hold this doctrine, hold this view — 'There is nothing given, nothing offered, nothing sacrificed. There is no fruit or result of good or bad actions. There is no this world, no next world, no mother, no father, no spontaneously reborn beings; no brahmans or contemplatives who, faring rightly and practicing rightly, proclaim this world and the next after having directly known and realized it for themselves' — it can be expected that, shunning these three skillful activities — good bodily conduct, good verbal conduct, good mental conduct — they will adopt & practice these three unskillful activities: bad bodily conduct, bad verbal conduct, bad mental conduct. Why is that? Because those venerable contemplatives & brahmans do not see, in unskillful activities, the drawbacks, the degradation, and the defilement; nor in skillful activities the rewards of renunciation, resembling cleansing.

A2. "Because there actually is the next world, the view of one who thinks, 'There is no next world' is his wrong view. Because there actually is the next world, when he is resolved that 'There is no next world,' that is his wrong resolve. Because there actually is the next world, when he speaks the statement, 'There is no next world,' that is his wrong speech. Because there actually is the next world, when he is says that 'There is no next world,' he makes himself an opponent to those arahants who know the next world. Because there actually is the next world, when he persuades another that 'There is no next world,' that is persuasion in what is not true Dhamma. And in that persuasion in what is not true Dhamma, he exalts himself and disparages others. Whatever good habituation he previously had is abandoned, while bad habituation is manifested. And this wrong view, wrong resolve, wrong speech, opposition to the arahants, persuasion in what is not true Dhamma, exaltation of self, & disparagement of others: These many evil, unskillful activities come into play, in dependence on wrong view.

A3. "With regard to this, an observant person considers thus: 'If there is no next world, then — with the breakup of the body, after death — this venerable person has made himself safe. But if there is the next world, then this venerable person — on the breakup of the body, after death — will reappear in a plane of deprivation, a bad destination, a lower realm, hell. Even if we didn't speak of the next world, and there weren't the true statement of those venerable contemplatives & brahmans, this venerable person is still criticized in the here-&-now by the observant as a person of bad habits & wrong view: [2] one who holds to a doctrine of non-existence.' If there really is a next world, then this venerable person has made a bad throw twice: in that he is criticized by the observant here-&-now, and in that — with the breakup of the body, after death — he will reappear in a plane of deprivation, a bad destination, a lower realm, hell. Thus this safe-bet teaching, when poorly grasped & poorly adopted by him, covers (only) one side, and leaves behind the possibility of the skillful.

B1. "Now, householders, of those contemplatives & brahmans who hold this doctrine, hold this view — 'There is what is given, what is offered, what is sacrificed. There are fruits & results of good & bad actions. There is this world & the next world. There is mother & father. There are spontaneously reborn beings; there are brahmans & contemplatives who, faring rightly & practicing rightly, proclaim this world & the next after having directly known & realized it for themselves' — it can be expected that, shunning these three unskillful activities — bad bodily conduct, bad verbal conduct, bad mental conduct — they will adopt & practice these three skillful activities: good bodily conduct, good verbal conduct, good mental conduct. Why is that? Because those venerable contemplatives & brahmans see in unskillful activities the drawbacks, the degradation, and the defilement; and in skillful activities the rewards of renunciation, resembling cleansing.

B2. "Because there actually is the next world, the view of one who thinks, 'There is a next world' is his right view. Because there actually is the next world, when he is resolved that 'There is a next world,' that is his right resolve. Because there actually is the next world, when he speaks the statement, 'There is a next world,' that is his right speech. Because there actually is the next world, when he is says that 'There is a next world,' he doesn't make himself an opponent to those arahants who know the next world. Because there actually is the next world, when he persuades another that 'There is a next world,' that is persuasion in what is true Dhamma. And in that persuasion in what is true Dhamma, he doesn't exalt himself or disparage others. Whatever bad habituation he previously had is abandoned, while good habituation is manifested. And this right view, right resolve, right speech, non-opposition to the arahants, persuasion in what is true Dhamma, non-exaltation of self, & non-disparagement of others: These many skillful activities come into play, in dependence on right view.

B3. "With regard to this, an observant person considers thus: 'If there is the next world, then this venerable person — on the breakup of the body, after death — will reappear in a good destination, a heavenly world. Even if we didn't speak of the next world, and there weren't the true statement of those venerable contemplatives & brahmans, this venerable person is still praised in the here-&-now by the observant as a person of good habits & right view: one who holds to a doctrine of existence.' If there really is a next world, then this venerable person has made a good throw twice, in that he is praised by the observant here-&-now; and in that — with the breakup of the body, after death — he will reappear in a good destination, a heavenly world. Thus this safe-bet teaching, when well grasped & adopted by him, covers both sides, and leaves behind the possibility of the unskillful.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2019, 10:44:50 AM by Johann »
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Re: Undertaking to end "Dialogue on Copyright Infringement and Vinaya"
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2019, 03:37:19 PM »
Dear Venerable Johann,

When I said breaking copyright is not a parajika offence, I did not mean to say that these offences are negligeable. To treat dukkatas as no offence is to enter very dangerous territory indeed, and the start of a very dangerous habit, where dukkatas are routinely ignored or laughed off. To be a vinaya expert is a serious drawback if it means being an expert in looking for loopholes. In my original article I said this:

"As for copyright law, I feel monks should make a reasonable effort to acquaint themselves with it, and, where necessary, they should seek permission from copyright holders before using their material if such use is not automatically sanctioned by law."

As for treating copyright offences as parajika, should we ignore the views of the Sangha, our kalayanamittas, our beloved third refuge? They are the living representatives of the Buddha, and should be treated as such. Their precious words are for our welfare and happiness, seeking our benefit, hoping for our liberation. Therefore their words should be remembered, recalled, and appreciated. Thus we truly fulfill our aspiration Sangham Saranam Gacchami.

May you be well and happy,

Varado

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Re: Undertaking to end "Dialogue on Copyright Infringement and Vinaya"
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2019, 04:11:57 PM »
Most valued Bhante Varado dear Venerable Grandfather of many, most valued in regard of his "Ananda-kind" understood by the ugly seeming Maha Kassapas generations, by the sake of the Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha and the less possible to escape in this kappa, remove this views or food for evil views, even it those actually already cut off are now aware of being cut off.

Doesn't Bhante see the effects of approaching what is wrong by means to paint it bright? Does Bhante likes to risk all that mentioned which is actually already fact and will at least not be stopped, runs faster and to endanger those of virtue, those less who still would have a possibility out?

Bhante, if wishing to approach this matter, do not approach it as someone defending criminals but as someone protects right. "What else could be adopted to be perfect in regard of Dhamma and Vinaya?" not "how can we make use of Dhamma-Vinaya, of our prison, to possible still our desires and over-paint our impurity".

Bhante, it is easy and quick made, that by taking of what is not given, "just by making a not given copy" one is defeated and no more related. Bhante, 80-95% are no more related. Does Bhante like that the last possible 1.000 are treated like criminals when the public gets more aware that "monks see no stealing in take what is not given as long as a copy is not moved".

When they see in future a monk standing or sitting they will say "look, he distinguishes just the stolen food to "shit" it back on it's place that he feels not guilty of stealing" or those stealing land will say "hey, I didn't move away your land, it's still here" and when a monk is traced at the boarder by soldiers they are commanded to quickly kill the potential spion.

Bhante, relinquish that view, destroy all feeding it, set out by Bhante, amend it and motivate others to delight in virtue, to promote it, to encourage people to respect thing hold by others as theirs, for why would a follower of the Noble ones even have the idea to argue to gain others possession? Why if not actually acted wrong and now seeking for release in the wrong direction?

Bhante does not know the world, has never left the palace, has not seen heads rolling had never stood in the middle of war, does not know the fatal impact of pseudo liberality when it's adopted by fools.

Bhante, for his own sake and that of many, do neither add nor take away of what is the conduct of the Noble Ones, Bhante relinquish this view and if no access by simply follow simple four precepts, again, investigate the topic ""Stealing and taking what is not given " to access from the Dhammic side in right direction.

My person thinks that this is the last on it that he can give for someones, possible many, possible benefit.

May all seen, traced, take-able, nourish on able, be regarded as given into the hand of the Sangha and may the Sangha act in ways that is good for not only a "vote period" but in measures of many generations. Trends come and go, Sangha only goes, either fast or traceable for others to follow out.
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Re: Undertaking to end "Dialogue on Copyright Infringement and Vinaya"
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2019, 05:52:18 PM »
A Sangha, most valued Ven. Grandfather Varado, venerated by many, that has fallen into the view as mentioned in those essays and the BMC, is neither the Sangha of the Buddha, nor for anybody desiring for long happiness a useful refuge and there is no lose at all if abounding bad association, Robin hoods and thieves.

May it be known that the Sangha of the Buddha has nothing to do with those "having left home" and steal hard earned to maintain their trades and views.

It's not move of anything that makes taking what is not given, but to bring something not given under ones control.

The fact that such might be sometimes be much easier then to pic up something in the forest, does not justify such. As quick a person, skilled, could by simply pushing enter set the world into fire and to hell, in the same way, a monk, wishing to take what is not given under his control, by pushing enter, is not only defeated when the amount is recogniced by most as having a value, but has also set his world on fire like the skilled general.

Yet even the effects of the misdeed of the general will disappear again in this world, yet, the kamma of a Sangha pushing this botton, approve such and see no downfall in such, effects this world for ever, has lost and given lose of any footing of the carriage of the Noble and liberating heritage.

Bhante, be quick, and if not understanding yet, act on faith of what someone having gained independency of require of trade and does not just talk, tells.

There are many, even the most monks, already destroyed in this heritage, don't let Bhante and those bound to him, related to him, take the same way. It's a foolish idea of thinking to be able to escape by stepping on the head of those outward of ones perceived relation. It's impossible to even get the head out of the mud without perfection in virtue, based on right view.

Venerable Grandfathers, stop to serve and sacrifices downward and use the little merits left to nourish those in front, to sacrifice toward Noble and not into a field of stones in the desert. Having reached the realms of the Brahmas, you are capable as soon as stepping down to earth where Suffering and the path out of it could be seen, understood, practiced and penetrated.

There are some left who would be able to folow your trace also into the right direction.

A Sangha that survives only by means of reducing values to the lowest common value, that presists and lives by currupted families and by refounds of thieves, such a Sangha, again, has nothing Sublime, is not even related a little and just by using the name and lables of the Noble Ones, ahain recognized as thieves. Don't steal the world a perfect perception of the sages away to serve some lost folk.

Not a single monk will be hindred to gain highest fruits by being sure that taking what is not given, in what ever way, will cut me off. Yet in the other direction as deluded try to do good, even those normal capable are already cut off, why? Because the Sangha of the Buddha can no more be traced, perceived.

Hurry up! There are less left who could accept that one makes amends, and every single still living Thera is needed to assist the last generation where a Sangha that is capable to ordain a Noble One, a Sangha leaded by Noble Ones, can no more easy be found.

Hurry up Bhante, encourage fellows to correct views and go on travel to repair what can be repaired, out of real compassion, out of wisdom of a Noble One.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2019, 06:05:11 PM by Johann »
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Re: Undertaking to end "Dialogue on Copyright Infringement and Vinaya"
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2019, 06:56:36 PM »
Dear Venerable Johann,

Yes, indeed, let us be careful about copying. But what can we do? DNA is copying. Memory is copying. Copying is part of nature. 

Varado

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Re: Undertaking to end "Dialogue on Copyright Infringement and Vinaya"
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2019, 08:37:52 PM »
It is right if Bhante points out: but this path to liberation can not be gone without copies, Sadhu! Yet it is gone by given for libetation ones only, from liberated, originals.

Not to go that deep and low as to argue with modern terms, most for his patient and grandly apperance by many Venerated Grandfather Varado , Loeu Oh , honored dear father, Brahma and giver.

You may wonder why a original appears first as a losy copy, but it is by not even taking on objects of memory support, when not given for liberation, that in times of ending of the Sasana words look poor at first glance. There are no more teacher of abundance of original in this world, giver, Brahmas for their disciples sharing what they own rightous by themselves gained from the last original his father.

So let a beggar give acount on the doubts arosen in Ven.Grandfathers spheres, and may Bhante be able to bear and compensate that what appears flurry, acakkhussa, smells, with only 4 and a 1/2 teeth left, living what others know just from books and not given copies:

The gift of copy in kāmaguṇā (Bhante thought DNA is usefull to mention this matter... for the four paccaya )

One seeing that been given by the goodness of his parents this body and basics, such a person is incapable for taking what is not given, even a copy, of anything, not to speak of holding the view: "I have a right on taking on a copy". Such a person is incapable to ever steal material things, honors and Venerates the many Brahmas supplying with the material means of taking birth and presist for a while.

 of kalyāṇa/kusala guṇa (skills)

One seeing that been given the merits of seldom teachers, even those they are teaching for their students liberation, their independency, such a person is incapable to take on not given ideas, incapable of learning even by books, incapable to steal ideas, to take others merits of refined concentration. Such a person is incapable to develop views like "I have a right of knowledge, a right to take on ideas".

...Dhamma/ariya guṇa, the copying given by the Noble Ones:

And what is the Nature of copy, the coping of nature? The diverent between cooping and copping in Samsara around and the blessing to be given a sample, a copy of Noble Domain?

The is the taking of copy that has not been given and relay on it: this is the way downward in this nature. Then there is the abstaining from taking a copy which is not given, which leads upward in this nature, and there is mixed cooping, copping, leading up and downwardly.

 But: There is the case where a person from good family (where Brahmas are reverated, coping upward had been performed) sees the dust and dirt of the living, substaining on home and stand. A vision of the Gems and liberation, he shaves his hair and goes from the home into homlessness, leaves his stand behind, having found Refuge in the Tripple Gems he total abstains from taking what is not given, from making a copy that is not given, lives exclusively from material gifts of those giving in faith with no demand taking a copy of him for their trade, he takes on only ideas and copies of the Noble ones, abstains from taken even given ideas if tracing their fraud and potencial to make dependency torward the world. Having gained right view he trains himself not to maje the silightest transgression in copy or taking on even the most far of form, sound, small, taste, touch. Having given up the cooping with the sense, he dwells in the 1. Jhana, second...4... possessing a Sublime copy of the Sublime Dhamma, he proves each state and let go of states, any stand that is traced as copy. Seeing this is stress, couping, this is the cause of stress, this the cessation, this the path leading to cessation, he reaches right there, here and now, not only awarness-releas but also release from ideas of any kind. Such is the nature of the sage having gained independency of nature, any copy: original

This is the nature of coping and giving copies of the Noble Ones, and this way beginns and ends with abstaining from taking a not given copy.

Therefore Bhante destroy the views provided by Mara and all feading it, leaving home and stand and walk only from the praise of those worthy to praise, so that wise could trace the path and follow behind.

Imāni pañca sikkhā-padāni:

These are the five training rules for monks (4 kinds ofnot taking of what is not given (life, stand; means; truth; assisiation), not copy, couping in the world, and indoxicants, wrong view serving drunkeness as the fifth)

Sīlena sugatiṃ yanti.

Through virtue they go to a good bourn.

Sīlena bhoga-sampadā.

Through virtue is wealth attained.

Sīlena nibbutiṃ yanti.

Through virtue they go to Liberation.

Tasmā sīlaṃ visodhaye.

Therefore we should purify our virtue.

Now hurry most beloved Grandfather Varado, done has been enough from even the most worse children an d grands, there is no time for doubt and no space for waiting on fools. Time is running out and most lack of compassion on wisdom those who do not urge simply the basic, since the rest does not require an act of will.

Fools those entertaining themselves and others in teaching anything else as silas and right view, give only copies of this to those still living in homes, holding stand.

May Bhante make good use of this given copy from original, it will not last can not be renewed once originals are gone. Hurry up and take this given copy from original to see the original in it. Bhante is capable to face the Tathagata as soon as leaving fraud copies, leaving house and stand, in ways that release from dependency on copies is gained. Right here and now.

May Bhante don't think that he met different as the stream of goodness slowly leaving this world, taking the last with it, those who gave into higher, those of gratitude, goodness born and nurished from goodness, guṇa is the word in pali for goodness and this goodness is that of the Buddha, Dhamma Sangha able to flow around Maras where ever he appears.

So is it that guṇa and kataññū form the wheel of Dhamma, the way of given and receiving copies of and for becoming original, unbound, not to be caught by any sañña or neither, or both. Impossible to make, even give a copy, if not touched the original.

Less are those who are even capable to enter this domain here, free of couping with copies and those who still see original in bad copies or bad copies in original, are bound to fall quick away again from this domain.

My person trust that Venerable Grandfather has here now found firm footing and takes on showing face, freed from wrong shame and fearful of right shame goes for and relays on original, how ever ugly it may look for blind.

May Bhante take on the shine avaliable from him and share that original then freely to those ready to be tamed and shine from themselves, not only by being polished by perfect virtue, perfect shine of samadhi and sharp wisdom but but by the heartwood of this domain: liberality rightous gained, Unbound.

When "we", they take even a given copy, they take care if still in the spheres of needs of debts on "debts, but to whom", as for taking what is not given, such is not even a topic worthy to speak of when the intent searches for ways of approve. Such inflexible is, are, originals and share copies of it further to those able to take.

The disciple of the Noble Ones, a Noble disciple, abstains from accepting, using and sharing further of even just copies which are not given for liberation as intent. Neither does he steal or make an notgiven copy of jati (stand life), paccaya (means to ptesist), sangama (relation, union, assosiation "sex"), or sacca (truth). He stays not-drunken, is not subject to "schnapsideen" on pride in health, youth, life, leading to break the 4 main.

Neither for himselves nor even for the Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha does he even consider to break the 5 basics only a "little", not to speak for the sake of lower (one).
« Last Edit: October 23, 2019, 10:12:07 PM by Johann »
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Re: Undertaking to end "Dialogue on Copyright Infringement and Vinaya"
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2019, 10:25:11 AM »
Okasa Venerable Varado ,

my person (Kana) would like to ask Ven. Grandfather whether he could already find doubtlessness here, sees faults and dangers, or if additional encouraged and explainings are needed.

The are (not less) cases of downfall transcressions, heavy and light offenses in this sphere. The are many, even well known Bhikkhus this days, already having fallen apart and every minute those foolish traps by badly considered investigations are around and even with approve shared, make the tiny rest of valid Sangha in this world smaller.

Sujato has fallen, Yuttadhammo with great chances, many dealer are actually in spheres of Sg13 and really a lot running around with heavy falts.My person fears also very "personal" honored Ven. being incl. in this groups, even Bhante Thanissaro needs/is strongly suspected to dwell in any kind of those transcressions as defending faults as being non is often the alternative try to progress while caught in a hole.

If the Sangha isn't capable to explain and derive the matter of kinds of faults in this regard, my person is all time willing to help to make in more accessable.

If Ven. Grandfather Varado as well as the other Ven. Sirs are ready here in this issue, my person would like to go onwith the topic of "taking in trust", licenses and Vinaya in regard of lighter seeming medias an goods. and then progress with the issue of stealing the Dhamma from it's heir, the Savaka Sangha.

May Ven. Grandfather, may the Venerable Sangha let it be known if there are still questions, still doubt.
 
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Re: Undertaking to end "Dialogue on Copyright Infringement and Vinaya"
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2019, 12:31:24 AM »
When you copy, you copy a pattern. If there is no permission, it should not be done.  Some people call it theft. What doubt is there in that?

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Re: Undertaking to end "Dialogue on Copyright Infringement and Vinaya"
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2019, 12:43:27 AM »
No Ven. Varado, that game wouldn't work. May Bhante accept that my person has nothing to do with western and modern Sangha and global thieves.

That not a funny brain mastubation game. People suffer, fight, die and this issue is a huge cause, drive.

Understanding that it makes no sense to rebuke those monks of today, my person will left you the keys to all behind and leave this modern and dirty realm. May the Venerables make the best of it, at least it is not like normal used taken without being given,but given.
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Re: Undertaking to end "Dialogue on Copyright Infringement and Vinaya"
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2019, 02:05:45 AM »
Sorry to hear your news. Nonetheless, may we live in harmony with the Sangha, who are our brothers and friends.

As long as the monks hold regular and frequent assemblies, they may be expected to prosper and not decline.

As long as they meet in harmony, break up in harmony, and carry on their business in harmony, the monks may be expected to prosper and not decline.

Homage to the Sangha. May it prosper and not decline.

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Re: Undertaking to end "Dialogue on Copyright Infringement and Vinaya"
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2019, 07:11:15 AM »

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

009.04. Bhikkhus, the highwaymen endowed with eight things does not do it long, ends up quickly. What eight?

Attacks those who should not be attacked, takes away without leaving anything, kills women, defiles maidens, plunders the gone forth, plunders the royal treasury, steals in the vicinity and does not have a saving Bhikkhus, the highwaymen endowed with these eight things does not do it long, ends up quickly.

Bhikkhus, the highwaymen endowed with eight things does it long, does not end up quickly. What eight?

Does not attack those who should not be attacked, does not take away without leaving anything, does not kill women, does not defile maidens, does not plunder the gone forth, does not plunder the royal treasury, does not steal in the vicinity and has a saving Bhikkhus, the highwaymen endowed with these eight things does it long, does not end up quickly.

Thieves stay thieves, whether they act in favor or like skilled traders.

My there be how ever those who have not only deep respect and faith toward the old ancestors who take here leave from missguided de-generation of marxist plunder times.

May the left behind help them in ways it could for those without basic right views and Sila.

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Re: Undertaking to end "Dialogue on Copyright Infringement and Vinaya"
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2019, 07:27:36 AM »
The Venerables Varado and Ariyadhammika have now been given the Monastic-administration possibilities and the other access-keys and passwords will be prepared and send as soon as being given energy. May it be done between the day of Independency and the end of the Vassa of the Noble Ones.

May the Venerables act for those bond to them, their relatives, in most concerning and proper way capable.

There is no more use of burdensome maintaining an even from goodness nourished body in a world void of basics. What ever wished can be taken according to ones Nissaya.
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