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Author Topic: Safety vs. joy and association, what to tend to?  (Read 785 times)

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Offline Johann

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Safety vs. joy and association, what to tend to?
« on: November 14, 2019, 07:12:46 PM »
Venerable members of the Sangha,
Ven. Fellows
Valued Upasaka, Upasika
Honored Buddhaparisada,
Dear interested,

What does Ven/Nyom Guest or others think if reflecting on the topic?

Where does one tend to, is bond to, and why?

Form, sound, smell, taste, touch and ideas: desire after food, even if for the abounding of desire for food, what source/dependency is good to choose?

In regard of Sense-food-giving/goodness kāmaguṇa but also in regard of dhammaguṇa, food-for-mind-giving/goodness when bond to trade, when receiver of alms: joy or safty? Plenty or no dangers?

People say good stuff has it's price. So giving joy or safety into at first place? Money/Values/plenty or Sila/safety for related gain?

Giving into objecting satisfaction or into objecting security?
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline saddhamma

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Re: Safety vs. joy and association, what to tend to?
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2019, 09:06:36 PM »
Dear Bhante Johann,
My reflection on this topic brings to mind the following advice from the Buddha on the topic:

At Rajagaha. As he was standing to one side, Uttara the deva's son recited this verse in the Blessed One's presence:

Life is swept along,
next-to-nothing its span.
For one swept on by aging
   no shelters exist.
Perceiving this danger in death,
one should do deeds of merit
   that bring about bliss.

[The Buddha:]
Life is swept along,
next-to-nothing its span.
For one swept to old age
   no shelters exist.
Perceiving this danger in death,
one should drop the world's bait
   and look for peace.

accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn02/sn02.019.than.html
http://www.zugangzureinsicht.org/html/tipitaka/sn/sn02/sn02.019.than_en.html
http://accesstoinsight.eu/en/tipitaka/sut/sn/sn02/sn02.019.than


* Johann : Atma changed active link, to course no use of recourses of lay-community maintaining ati now and easier access to possible other given languages..
« Last Edit: November 14, 2019, 09:16:06 PM by Johann »

Offline Johann

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Re: Safety vs. joy and association, what to tend to?
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2019, 09:17:22 PM »
Sadhu

Any practical reflection in own daily live and practice, Nyom Ebo?
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Varado

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Re: Safety vs. joy and association, what to tend to?
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2019, 09:52:13 PM »
Khema means safe or safety. But in this context it means yogakkhema, 'safety from the danger of bondage to individual existence.'

Bondage to individual existence comes from:
1) attachment to sensuous pleasure
☸ kāmayogo
2) attachment to states of individual existence
☸ bhavayogo
3) dogmatism
☸ diṭṭhiyogo
4) uninsightfulness into reality
☸ avijjāyogo

By joy we mean muditā, unlimited warmhearted joy.

Muditā is a joy associated with living in harmony with others. When bhikkhus dwell like this, they dwell in a divine abiding, that is to say, in the liberation from the asavas through muditā.

In one who is glad, rapture arises. In one who is rapturous, his body becomes tranquil and his mind becomes collected. Whenever a bhikkhu carefully, passively observes his mind thus collected, on that occasion the enlightenment factor of detached awareness is aroused in the bhikkhu.

Practising mudita leads to detached awareness, and thus eventually to safety from the danger of bondage to individual existence.

Offline Johann

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Re: Safety vs. joy and association, what to tend to?
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2019, 10:12:38 PM »
Sadhu

maybe good to know that right joy has real Sila as condition. And real Sila hasn't harmony, but the opposite as condition: Dukkha. Perceiving strongly insecurity, than take on the heared, told.

Harmony, Khema is then the product of the lokuttra-path.

This dukkha requires a good birth with face. Not perceiving a face/stand to be in danger, dwelling in a higher sphere, unaware, dukkha isn't complete seen and right Sila will not arise... wrong release another time, wrong harmony grasped another time. Why? Because focus was on known joy in the world.

Practicing mudita for areas in Jhana requires gratiude and abcence from stinginess. Release from boundage with this practice, the reflection on dhamma "even this isn't safe" the gained awarenessrelease when gained.

This being the reason, being the cause, Dhammic teacher do not teach meditation but steady encourage to Silas improve, right view and merits of other kinds. Once the base is established, the path develops on it's given conditions by it self. No need to pull anywhere else.

Mudita if able to receive/perceive and met the occasion for such.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2019, 10:39:28 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline saddhamma

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Re: Safety vs. joy and association, what to tend to?
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2019, 11:01:08 PM »
Quote from: ??
Sadhu

Any practical reflection in own daily live and practice, Nyom Ebo?

Sorry I do not have any dhamma of my own to share Bhante. Any experiences from my own daily life and practice are not worth sharing if they are not found in the suttas. And if I am fortunate enough to trace my experiences in the suttas, then I find no better way to share them than through the words of the Buddha or his disciples as proclaimed in the suttas. For they only confirm to me that “The Blessed One is perfectly awakened! The Dhamma is well-proclaimed by the Blessed One! The Ariya Sangha has entered upon the good path!”

Offline Cheav Villa

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Re: Safety vs. joy and association, what to tend to?
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2019, 11:24:40 PM »
កូណា ព្រះអង្គ  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

ខ្ញុំកូណាបាននឹកឃើញ ចេតនាករណីយសូត្រ ទី២


Kana Brah Ang

I, Kana, was reminded on the Cetanakaraṇīya Sutta


ការប្រព្រឹត្តិ ការចិញ្ចឹមជីវិត រស់នៅប្រចាំថ្ងៃ អោយនៅក្នុងសីល ។ និងមើលជំរះសីលអោយបរិសុទ្ធ ។ នាំអោយមានដំណើរ ចេញចាក កងនៃសង្សារវដ្ត
ជាការបដិបត្តិធម៌សមគួរដល់ធម៌តាមលំដាប់


Deed of taking on the deed of carry for the daily livelihood (to be given) within Sila. And looking after in giving the Sila a parisuddha growing. This gives the development of (able) to leave, let go from saṅgsāravaṭṭa (Samsara, area of wandering on, habit of turning bond) and is the deed (karā) of paṭipatti (practicing) the Dhamma of which is proper following the stages.

សីល=>>អវិប្បដិសារី=>>បាមុជ្ជ=>>
បីតិ=>>កាយប្បស្សទ្ធិ=>>សុខ=>>សមាធិ=>>និព្វិទា=>>វិមុត្តញាណទស្សន=>>វិរាគៈ។

 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

Sīla => avippaṭisārī => pāmojja => pīti => kāyappassaddhi => sukha => samādhi => nibbidā => vimuttanāṇadassana => virāga
* Johann : transl. added
« Last Edit: November 15, 2019, 04:37:55 PM by Johann »

Offline Johann

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Re: Safety vs. joy and association, what to tend to?
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2019, 06:08:00 AM »
Quote from: ??
Sadhu

Any practical reflection in own daily live and practice, Nyom Ebo?

Sorry I do not have any dhamma of my own to share Bhante. Any experiences from my own daily life and practice are not worth sharing if they are not found in the suttas. And if I am fortunate enough to trace my experiences in the suttas, then I find no better way to share them than through the words of the Buddha or his disciples as proclaimed in the suttas. For they only confirm to me that “The Blessed One is perfectly awakened! The Dhamma is well-proclaimed by the Blessed One! The Ariya Sangha has entered upon the good path!”

Mudita with the gained safety, Nyom calling himself "Truth Dhamma", why then? Has this name been given? Yet it seems that regarding it as own.

Such, as Nyom expressed, if being the case, really, would be very blessed, Nyom Ebo. May Nyom, how ever, keeping in mind, that possible not relaying on given and safe Dhamma. Focus on joy, one easy oversees the insecurity. Having copied a pattern, having not left home before being given, incomplete, one is able to gain certain cetain release and then turns around on this wrong release. Good to keep in mind that to see the Dhamma one needs to see the Arahat, to see the Arahat, one needs to see the Dhamma.

Once a wrong pattern gets more dominant, incl the giving and attaining of it, it becomes more and more difficult to trace the distinction between focus on proper safety of desired joy.

This being the cause, being the reason, it was a very broad enlightened occasion, the " 'Friends, it's good for a monk periodically to have reflected on his own failings… on the failings of others… on his own attainments… on the attainments of others'?” Uttara Sitta

Sangha, admirable friend, ones Nissaya, can not be replaced by copy or improper giving of a pattern, Nissaya is safety related at first place, Sila, and joy it's fruit, in the middle and at the end.

Given by those giving for right release, how could it be to havn't "own" Dhamma to share or limited and not given to share in the Ariya pattern?

Or to speak in simply terms in relation of "no Dhamma of my own"

"Don't think that the Dhamma lies far away from you. It lies right with you; it's about you. Take a look. One minute happy, the next minute sad, satisfied, then angry at this person, hating that person: It's all Dhamma..."


This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Re: Safety vs. joy and association, what to tend to?
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2019, 06:19:33 AM »
កូណា ព្រះអង្គ  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

ខ្ញុំកូណាបាននឹកឃើញ ចេតនាករណីយសូត្រ ទី២


Kana Brah Ang

I, Kana, was reminded on the Cetanakaraṇīya Sutta


ការប្រព្រឹត្តិ ការចិញ្ចឹមជីវិត រស់នៅប្រចាំថ្ងៃ អោយនៅក្នុងសីល ។ និងមើលជំរះសីលអោយបរិសុទ្ធ ។ នាំអោយមានដំណើរ ចេញចាក កងនៃសង្សារវដ្ត
ជាការបដិបត្តិធម៌សមគួរដល់ធម៌តាមលំដាប់


Deed of taking on the deed of carry for the daily livelihood (to be given) within Sila. And looking after in giving the Sila a parisuddha growing. This gives the development of (able) to leave, let go from saṅgsāravaṭṭa (Samsara, area of wandering on, habit of turning bond) and is the deed (karā) of paṭipatti (practicing) the Dhamma of which is proper following the stages.

សីល=>>អវិប្បដិសារី=>>បាមុជ្ជ=>>
បីតិ=>>កាយប្បស្សទ្ធិ=>>សុខ=>>សមាធិ=>>និព្វិទា=>>វិមុត្តញាណទស្សន=>>វិរាគៈ។

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Sīla => avippaṭisārī => pāmojja => pīti => kāyappassaddhi => sukha => samādhi => nibbidā => vimuttanāṇadassana => virāga
* Johann : transl. added

Sadhu Nyom.

Maybe good to add Samveg before the first conditon for release. Sometimes Sila, sometimes Saddha (both meanin giving) is then told as the effect on it.

Atma will later share a translation of the Dhamma Nyom "made/received as her own" to make it fellows and followers accessible.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2019, 04:39:35 PM by Johann »
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Offline Cheav Villa

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Re: Safety vs. joy and association, what to tend to?
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2019, 06:36:20 AM »
កូណា ព្រះអង្គ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

នៅពេលម្នាក់ ពេញចិត្តក្នុង រូប សំឡេង ក្លិន រសជាតិ ជាប់ជំពាក់ក្មុងការវិលរហូត ស្វែងរករហូត។


Kūṇā Brah Aṅg

When a person beñ
citta[/i] when (binding the mind torward) being pleased in form (rūpa), sound, smell, tast... , takes hold on trust on kāra (deed/matter) of rotating decay, (then he starts) to look after getting detached from it.[/len]


ពេលដែលម្នាក់ បានឃើញការពិត ចង់ចេញពីកង់ដែលវិល ។ ងាកមកបដិបត្តិសីល ធ្វើកុសលជាទីពឹង មានសេចក្តីព្យាយាមរហូត ពេលនៅមានកំលាំង ជំរះសីលអោយបរិសុទ្ធ មុនមរណៈមកដល់ នឹងបានដល់ត្រើយសុវត្ថិភាព ដល់នូវព្រះនិព្វានជាទីបំផុត។

When a person has seen (till) the (kāra of) truth he desires to exit the turnning-around. Turning away (letting go), practicing Sila, doing kusala (skillful, wholesame) is (the) refuge, having the quality of byāyama (effort) in advanced; when in times having power to bend the Silas purified before maraṇa (death) approches and arrive on the shore of security, forward toward Brah Nibbana as the foremost (safety).[/len]

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* Johann : transl. added
« Last Edit: November 15, 2019, 05:13:39 PM by Johann »

Offline Johann

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Re: Safety vs. joy and association, what to tend to?
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2019, 05:23:35 PM »
Sadhu

So giving toward safe, giving safety, leads to safe and secure. Has puñña (real joyful deeds) at the beginning, proper joy in the middle and highest joy at its end: "N'aṭṭhi santī pāraṃ sukhaṃ"

The highest, harmony as effect, sila as it's cause.

Does Grandfather Varado likes to share a illustrating translation of the most cited sentence here, in the harmony-loving lands of the Khema (Khmer): "N'aṭṭhi santī pāraṃ sukhaṃ"?
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