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Talkbox

2019 Dec 15 16:59:32
Johann: Sadhu, sadhu

2019 Dec 15 16:32:39
Moritz: May Bhante be able to regenerate strength of body. _/\_

2019 Dec 15 16:32:12
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Dec 14 14:09:47
Johann: Sokh chomreoun

2019 Dec 14 13:53:34
Moritz: Chom reap leah _/\_ (My day just ending here now, after night-shift :) )

2019 Dec 14 13:45:25
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2019 Dec 14 12:59:30
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Dec 14 11:44:11
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2019 Dec 14 10:57:23
Moritz: Chom reap sour, bong Villa _/\_

2019 Dec 14 08:57:33
Khemakumara: សទ្ធា saddhā faith

2019 Dec 14 07:04:00
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Dec 14 05:21:41
Moritz: Sadhu _/\_

2019 Dec 14 05:19:58
Khemakumara: May all living be-ings, seen and unseen be free from all dukkha. May it be a path- and fruitful day. 

2019 Dec 14 05:10:41
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Dec 13 10:50:10
Johann: Called, one does not only look after to master, but also to maintain ones address proper, or?

2019 Dec 13 09:48:22
Danilo: Why 'master'?

2019 Dec 13 09:47:44
Danilo: Bhante Johann _/\_

2019 Dec 13 09:46:06
Johann: Master Danilo

2019 Dec 13 09:33:15
Moritz: Chom reap leah _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Dec 13 09:27:16
Johann: Nyom

2019 Dec 13 07:56:23
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Master Moritz _/\_

2019 Dec 13 07:17:09
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2019 Dec 13 05:48:07
Johann: Meister Moritz

2019 Dec 13 05:36:56
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Dec 12 04:26:54
Johann: Bhante Kheminda

2019 Dec 11 13:58:31
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2019 Dec 11 12:50:57
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2019 Dec 11 12:10:02
Johann: Mudita

2019 Dec 11 12:06:14
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Kana sent to Pou Chanroth, he replied Bhante also told him at his home this morning  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Dec 11 11:33:06
Johann: "As he is recollecting the Sangha, his mind is calmed, and joy arises; the defilements of his mind are abandoned, just as when clothing is cleansed through the proper technique. "

2019 Dec 11 11:31:42
Johann: Sadhu, Sadhu, recollecting the Sangha

2019 Dec 11 10:32:13
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Dec 11 10:31:19
Cheav Villa: May this should be a path of Uposotha today Cleansing of defilement mind

2019 Dec 11 07:12:00
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Dec 11 06:24:15
Johann: Sadhu

2019 Dec 11 05:12:53
Khemakumara: May it be a path- and fruitful Uposatha

2019 Dec 11 05:11:39
Khemakumara: "And what is the Uposatha of the Noble Ones? It is the cleansing of the defiled mind through the proper technique.

2019 Dec 10 21:14:57
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ I kana thought of Bhante in health condition or battery  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Dec 10 12:01:52
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Dec 10 11:21:08
Cheav Villa: Bhante  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ the landowner would be off the gate way soon? _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Dec 10 11:11:11
Johann: Sokh chomreoun all

2019 Dec 10 11:08:18
Cheav Villa: Master Moritz _/\_

2019 Dec 10 11:08:02
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Dec 10 10:48:07
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2019 Dec 09 23:28:27
Vithou:  _/\_

2019 Dec 07 09:19:49
Chanroth:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Dec 05 09:56:53
Johann: sokh chomreoun, nyom

2019 Dec 05 09:56:09
Moritz: Taking leave. May Bhante dwell in good health _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Dec 05 09:46:00
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Dec 05 09:14:32
Cheav Villa:  :) _/\_

2019 Dec 05 08:09:04
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2019 Dec 04 20:16:08
saddhamma:  _/\_Bhante Johann. Wishing you speedy recovery.

2019 Dec 04 07:35:06
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Dec 04 06:36:37
Moritz: Chom reap leah _/\_

2019 Dec 04 06:32:33
Johann: Sadhu

2019 Dec 04 06:31:50
Johann: Sokh chomreoun, Nyom (May welbeing increase)

2019 Dec 04 06:31:50
Moritz: May all spend a good Uposatha _/\_

2019 Dec 04 06:31:42
Khemakumara: May all have a path- and fruiful Uposatha

2019 Dec 04 06:31:34
Moritz: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Dec 04 06:31:28
Moritz: Vandami Bhante Khemakumara _/\_

2019 Dec 04 06:08:13
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Dec 04 01:50:53
saddhamma: Āvuso Moritz _/\_

2019 Dec 04 01:15:40
Moritz: Bong Ebo _/\_

2019 Dec 01 13:29:37
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 30 21:38:39
Johann: Nyom

2019 Nov 30 21:30:49
Cheav Villa: May Bhante get well soon _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 30 19:04:39
Cheav Villa: Vandami Bhante Johann  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante Khemakumara  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 30 17:34:10
Khemakumara: Nyom

2019 Nov 30 16:43:46
Johann: Bhante Ariyadhammika

2019 Nov 30 06:46:37
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante

2019 Nov 29 20:24:07
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 29 18:59:11
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Sadhu Sadhu

2019 Nov 29 16:01:17
Johann: Ratana Sutta , and one more public.

2019 Nov 29 14:25:08
Cheav Villa:   _/\_ Yes, eveyone here got flu and almost everywhere..  :-\ :) _/\_

2019 Nov 29 14:19:23
Moritz: Sadhu _/\_ Yes, sickness very much present here as well.  :-\  :)

2019 Nov 29 14:18:08
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Nov 29 14:12:37
Johann: (May all and everyone get soon/quick free fom sickness) Sadhu

2019 Nov 29 14:07:13
Cheav Villa: សូមអោយអ្នកទាំងអស់គ្នាឆាប់ជាពីរោគា គ្រប់ៗគ្នា _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 29 14:05:22
Cheav Villa: សូមអោយព្រះអង្គឆាប់ជាពីជម្ងឺផ្តាសាយ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 29 12:05:41
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2019 Nov 29 11:51:15
Moritz: Bong Villa _/\_

2019 Nov 28 20:08:22
Johann:  _/\_ Bhante Ariyadhammika

2019 Nov 28 13:11:37
Johann: Bhante

2019 Nov 28 12:52:24
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante

2019 Nov 27 23:19:47
Cheav Villa:  :) _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 27 22:59:18
Khemakumara: Nyom

2019 Nov 27 10:20:04
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 27 10:16:58
Khemakumara: May it be a path -and fruitful after-the-Newmoon-uposatha-day

2019 Nov 26 20:55:22
Johann: Meister Moritz

2019 Nov 26 19:35:55
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Nov 26 11:50:14
Johann:  _/\_ Bhante Ariyadhammika

2019 Nov 26 10:53:53
Cheav Villa: Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 26 09:24:16
Johann: A blessed and united Newmoon uposatha all touchable and taking on it

2019 Nov 26 08:53:07
Cheav Villa:  :) _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 26 00:07:54
Johann: Moi, moi, Nyom. Ma dom ma chumheang (Slowly, slowly... step by step) much joy in all good virtuous undertakings.

2019 Nov 25 23:46:46
Moritz: Chom reap leah _/\_ (many things to do...)

2019 Nov 25 23:28:18
Johann: Meister Moritz

2019 Nov 25 23:04:36
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Nov 24 22:55:28
Johann: Nyom

2019 Nov 24 22:51:00
saddhamma: Bhante Johann _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

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Author Topic: Relay on what and whom?  (Read 972 times)

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Offline saddhamma

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Relay on what and whom?
« on: November 20, 2019, 04:59:00 AM »

Aramika   *

Dieses neue Thema (bzw. diese/r Beitrag/e) wurde  aus abgetrennten Beiträgen, ursprünglich in Vivek arrived! Welcome! ...ist angekommen! Willkommen! ...បាន​មកដល់! សូមស្វាគមន៍! , hinzugefügt. Für ev. ergänzende Informationen zur sehen Sie bitte das Ursprugsthema ein. Anumodana!

[Original post:]


Welcome Avuso Vivek  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

My advice would be to study the suttas under the guidance of an arahant or a sekha (true kalyanamitta) if you are fortunate enough to find one. Otherwise use the Mahapadesa sutta (AN 4.180) as your guide to be able to filter out counterfeit dhamma from the true dhamma, arouse samvega for the breakthrough without slackening.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 09:06:31 AM by Johann »

Offline saddhamma

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Re: Relay on what and whom?
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2019, 05:21:19 AM »
Quote from: ??
Otherwise use the Mahapadesa sutta (AN 4.180) as your guide to counterfeit dhamma from the true dhamma, arouse samvega for the breakthrough without slackening.

Should be corrected to:
Otherwise use the Mahapadesa sutta (AN 4.180) as your guide to filter out counterfeit dhamma from the true dhamma and arouse samvega for the breakthrough without slackening.

Offline Vivek

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Re: Relay on what and whom?
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2019, 07:13:04 AM »
 _/\_ aavusaon,

In my email to aavusa samana Johann, bymistake wrote as ,"meditated under s.n. goenka tradition but unsatisfied" instead, I was unsatisfied by that teaching that's why started self-meditation in forests/mountains as an ascetic.

I researched about suttas and found that only mulparirayavagga of Majjhima Nikaya can be considered to be meant for meditators or middle path or can be used to regenerate buddha's knowledge. I have read(within last 3 months) it from book by Rahul Sankrityayan (direct pali to hindi translation), still there is one chapter of Anangana Sutta which, because of mentioned superiority & inferiority among unenlightened beings, can create chaos among householders and homeless as well.

Offline saddhamma

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Re: Relay on what and whom?
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2019, 08:08:37 AM »
Avuso Vivek,
I am afraid meditating on your own for even a hundred years without a purified virtue and a view that is straight will not help you to make the breakthrough if you want to take advantage of the Buddha’s teachings. The only way to straighten your view is to know how to distinguish the counterfeit dhamma from the true dhamma, for which the Buddha gives Mahapadesa sutta (AN 4.180) as guidance if you don’t have a true kalyanamitta to guide you. As noted by the late Venerable Nanavira in his book, “Clearing the Path”, and I quote:

Quote from: ??
These books of the Pali Canon correctly represent the Buddha's Teaching, and can be regarded as trustworthy throughout. (Vinayapitaka:) Suttavibhanga, Mahāvagga, Cūlavagga; (Suttapitaka:) Dīghanikāya, Majjhimanikāya, Samyuttanikāya, Anguttaranikāya, Suttanipāta, Dhammapada, Udāna, Itivuttaka, Theratherīgāthā. (The Jātaka verses may be authentic, but they do not come within the scope of these Notes.) No other Pali books whatsoever should be taken as authoritative; and ignorance of them (and particularly of the traditional Commentaries) may be counted a positive advantage, as leaving less to be unlearned.

This is well said by the venerable one, not badly said. It is connected with welfare, not unconnected.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 08:16:33 AM by saddhamma »

Offline saddhamma

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Re: Relay on what and whom?
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2019, 09:28:59 AM »
It should be clarified that among the Dhammapada collections in the Canon, only the Dhammapada verses are trustworthy as belonging to the Buddha’s Teachings. The Dhammapada stories come from the traditional commentaries so any dhamma teachings in them should be cross-checked with the suttas and vinaya to filter out any counterfeit dhamma.

Offline Johann

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Re: Relay on what and whom?
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2019, 10:40:08 AM »
As noted by the late Venerable Nanavira in his book, “Clearing the Path”, and I quote:

Quote
These books of the Pali Canon correctly represent the Buddha's Teaching, and can be regarded as trustworthy throughout. (Vinayapitaka:) Suttavibhanga, Mahāvagga, Cūlavagga; (Suttapitaka:) Dīghanikāya, Majjhimanikāya, Samyuttanikāya, Anguttaranikāya, Suttanipāta, Dhammapada, Udāna, Itivuttaka, Theratherīgāthā. (The Jātaka verses may be authentic, but they do not come within the scope of these Notes.) No other Pali books whatsoever should be taken as authoritative; and ignorance of them (and particularly of the traditional Commentaries) may be counted a positive advantage, as leaving less to be unlearned.

This is well said by the venerable one, not badly said. It is connected with welfare, not unconnected.

Aside of the binld and foolish bias of the modern suicide tradition, which likes to deny their ancestors, isn't it simply another commentary from a person who really doesn't shine at all, Nyom saddhamma ? So how authentically are those approaches?

My person would't advice anybody to associate with suicide appovers, Jains, headless and other Nihilist, who are yet, so conceit in their views, still not dare to take what isn't given, not to speak from incapable of basic generosity put simply traders, householder increasing their debts till suicide (vi-bhava) remains as their last opinion, having block off all ways out with their ideas that gaining freedom wouldn't require getting in debts with the near supporter, the Sangha, teacher.

Ven. Nanavira is surely another good sample of a Yogi who was incapable to find good friends and has fallen into troubles by on oneside trading with the heritage while denying his parents. Dwelling alone with the scripts, which couldn't of course not point on and provoke out his defilments, he was another lost yogi.

To give the line of causes in poor outwardly, but given way further:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

The shameless one without remorse becomes negligent It is not possible for the negligent one to dispel direspect, unruliness and evil friendship. It is not possisble for the one associating evil friends to gain faith, dispel stinginess and laziness. It is not possible for the lazy one to dispel excitement, lack of restraint and evil virtues. It is not possible for the unvirtuous one to dispel the dislike to see noble ones, to hear the teaching of the noble ones and dispel the reproaching mind. It is not possible for one with a reproaching mind to dispel forgetfulness, lack of mindful awareness and the derangement of mind. It is not possible for one with deranged mind to dispel unwise attention, practising in the wrong path and the mind's immobility. It is not possible for one with a sluggish mind to dispel the view of a self, doubts, and grasping virtues as the highest aim. It is not possible for the doubting one to dispel greed, hate and delusion. Without dispelling greed, hate and delusion it is not possible to dispel birth, decay and death.

This being the reason, being the cause, a faithful householder trains himself in straighten view by observing the Silas (vipassana) while training giving, letting go on it. More and more refined so that ones relation get more and more refined, to touch then punna kiriya vatthu, a borderland, Vatta, next the Noble domain and then, if free of outer debts, would leave home under the Sangha, a teacher, of this ancestorship.

So to get familar with the burdensome, troublesome, near friend of the King, is very needed and can not be neglect or gained on other way by thief and in ways of ingratitude.

That's your family and you wouldn't gain another of what "deserveing". By ways of ingratitude you wouldn't abound kamma.

Maybe a good talk for one after being able to leave home in proper way, home is that where you gain your food (sense and thoughts), and turn toward a more refined, if coming to conclusion that the current relation harms yourself and others, willing to give up that food, at first place:


en:lib:authors:thanissaro:dhammatalks:181029_the_buddhas_relationship_advice.mp3


Ven Nanavira, btw., preferred PM, email and other hidden ways of trade as well and flew of the most governing principles and protection of the Sangha next to his near teacher, got in improper relation and dependency by it.

When your lasting relation is just a book and when you cut your self off from other relations, having long term denied them, then, when no more able to find ways further you may follow the exit of vi-bhava there as well. If this tradition of the Noble Ones would live on in this world without direct living relation, then the Buddha would have spend the rest of his life to writte is Dhamma into stones or by focus on sutta-central and do fondraising and trade to do so...

Sila, relay more and more on given, that what wears the lable "not for trade" and generosity, all the way till liberation.

When coming from vipassana, householder tradition, it works all by the opposit, "paying" just if feel indebt later, yet possible then run out already not only of all capacity by also off paccaya, means, merits, for proper trade toward Independency.

A topic that requires much self honesty, looking => vipassana there where not willing to look and hold a stand, feel annoyed.

How will you be able to let go in meditation, if not even able to give your face or stinginess of other kinds, headed all by ingratitude?

No need to study anything aside there if "pushed" to look where it could be seen.

You can not trust anything finally or absolute, yet still you need to relay on that which is in Khema domain or heading, pulling, toward it.

It should be clarified that among the Dhammapada collections in the Canon, only the Dhammapada verses are trustworthy as belonging to the Buddha’s Teachings. The Dhammapada stories come from the traditional commentaries so any dhamma teachings in them should be cross-checked with the suttas and vinaya to filter out any counterfeit dhamma.

  *head bend, looking forward* Don't relay on commentaries... and never tell the story about the circumstances something was said in this topic. "Here! Look another windmile-monster. Run! Don't eat it, come my way, I am already independend of food."

Peels & Husks

I'll give you a simple comparison. Suppose you've bought a banana or a coconut in the market and you walk along carrying it. Someone asks you, "Why did you buy the banana?"

"I bought it to eat it."

"But do you have to eat the peel, too?"

"No."

"I don't believe you. If you're not going to eat the peel, why are you carrying it too?"

Or suppose you're carrying a coconut:

"Why are you carrying the coconut?"

"I'm carrying it home to make a curry."

"And you're going to curry the husk too?"

"No."

"Then why are you carrying it?"

So. How are you going to answer his question?

Through desire. If there's no desire, you can't give rise to ingenuity, to discernment.

That's the way it is as we make an effort in our meditation. Even though we do this through letting go, it's like the banana or the coconut: Why are you carrying the peel or the husk? Because the time hasn't come yet to throw it away. It's still protecting the inner flesh. The time hasn't come yet to throw it away, so you hold onto it for the time being.

The same with our practice: Suppositions and release have to be mixed together, just as the coconut has a husk mixed together with a shell and the flesh, so you carry them all together. If they accuse us of eating the coconut husk, so what? We know what we're doing.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 11:22:16 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Johann

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Re: Relay on what and whom?
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2019, 10:43:19 AM »
You really have to think about why running around headless, without willing to give, yet still on search for food... how did this indebting came about? This desire for Not-being?

To seek out for like minded does change the fact that Uposatha of the Jains is still Uposatha of the Jains, Nyom Vivek , saddhamma , Grandfather Varado . It wouldn't work in hunter and collector ways and althought as well not much of glory, the Uposatha of the cowards still has openings toward the Ariya one and isn't that harmful and biased like pseudo-liberality in-liberal toward near relatives.

And where do you go now? Fedding on anonymous... in realms where Dhamma can not be gained. A perfect target for cheaters dwelling in resorts build by headless.

You would just appear again in another womb, relation, whether realizing it or not.

« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 10:54:43 AM by Johann »
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Offline Johann

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Re: Relay on what and whom?
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2019, 11:00:05 AM »

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

The Story of Thera Radha

While residing at the Jetavana monastery, the Buddha uttered Verse (76) of this book, with reference to Thera Radha, who was at one time a poor old Brahmin.

Radha was a poor brahmin who stayed in the monastery doing small services for the bhikkhus. For his services he was provided with food and clothing and other needs, but was not encouraged to join the Order, although he had a strong desire to become a bhikkhu.

One day, early in the morning, when the Buddha surveyed the world with his supernormal power, he saw the poor old brahmin in his vision and knew that he was due for arahatship. So the Buddha went to the old man, and learned from him that the bhikkhus of the monastery did not want him to join the Order. The Buddha therefore called all the bhikkhus to him and asked them, “Is there any bhikkhu here who recollects any good turn done to him by this old man?” To this question, the Venerable Sariputta replied, “Venerable Sir, I do recollect an instance when this old man offered me a spoonful of rice.” “If that be so,” the Buddha said, “shouldn't you help your benefactor get liberated from the ills of life?” Then the Venerable Sariputta agreed to make the old man a bhikkhu and he was duly admitted to the Order. The Venerable Sariputta guided the old bhikkhu and the old bhikkhu strictly followed his guidance. Within a few days, the old bhikkhu attained arahatship.

When the Buddha next came to see the bhikkhus, they reported to him how strictly the old bhikkhu followed the guidance of the Venerable Sariputta. To them, the Buddha replied that a bhikkhu should be amenable to guidance like Radha, and should not resent when rebuked for any fault or failing.

Then the Buddha spoke in verse as follows:

Verse 76: One should follow a man of wisdom who rebukes one for one's faults, as one would follow a guide to some buried treasure. To one who follows such a wise man, it will be an advantage and not a disadvantage.

There are not useless and sometimes quite supportive to understands ones own situation, stories on topics like here. Not always for those direct involved but always for those observant, reflective and coming later accross as well.

One wouldn't gain relation to the Sangha if not having given into it previously.
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Offline saddhamma

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Re: Relay on what and whom?
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2019, 12:16:05 PM »
Dear Bhante Johann,
I am the one who quoted the late Venerable Nanavira so any questions or points that need clarifications about my post would be more fruitful if directed to me. Bhante's opinion about Venerable Nanavira cannot help put any doubts Bhante have about my post to rest.

May Bhante please be more precise about what objections Bhante would like to raise about my advice to Avuso Vivek to rely on the Mahapadesa sutta in the absence of a true kalyanamitta as instructed by the Buddha in order to straighten his view. Is Bhante's objecting to cross-checking any purported dhamma against what is found in Suttavibhanga, Mahāvagga, Cūlavagga of the Vinayapitaka; or Dīghanikāya, Majjhimanikāya, Samyuttanikāya, Anguttaranikāya, Suttanipāta, Dhammapada verses, Udāna, Itivuttaka, Theragāthā and Therīgāthā of the Suttapitaka to make sure it is not counterfeit dhamma, or is Bhante objecting that the list of references is missing some books that are highly praised by the elders in Bhante's tradition?

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Re: Relay on what and whom?
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2019, 12:38:24 PM »
 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

We mustn't fight or debate or argue. Whatever one likes s/he can write here ,it's better to read only for reader ,if having questions then ask otherwise if agree or not agree mustn't have any quarrel over such.

We all are free to put our ideas/faith here.

Aavusa Saddhamma,
I didn't feel the idea of books recommended inside your quote that's why didn't reply.

Why?
Because I have some strong arguments regarding few topics on Vinaypitaka, Majjhima Nikaya,... Regarding reading of AN 14.180 ,yes,  I am trying to find/look it over internet... still my preference is to remain dependent on core teachings of buddha which are 5 sheela at body & mind level, impermanence, 4 noble truths, 8 fold noble path, Anapaana . Along with this, I also self-practised meditation while doing free service(involving hard physical work at a religious place) during previous spiritual journey.

Namo Buddhaya,

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Re: Relay on what and whom?
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2019, 01:31:47 PM »
Atma took all the bond Yogis here into the boat, Nyom. And knows well who said, yet it's "just" a common pattern that speaks.

Nyom Ebo. Again, my person "didn't fall from heaven", or say, even, the heaven had causes, to appear and has a way behind that you might not know yet, yet he knows where you are an what your troubles causes are. Atma lifes already without Nissaya and such isn't gained, can not be maintained, it neglecting ones family, culture.

May Nyom take his list and prove it further. First to fall: Theragata, -gita. Secound, Ittivuttha ("that has been said"), Dhammapada... Vinaya... oh, it falls all off, is dependent originated, compiled carried on. And then? After having cut off yourself and it turns out that the great love is also impure?

If really having found the other shore, would you shout back "don't use this boot, it's a manufactured, subject to break."

Your parents are not able to keep you from destroying your heritage and act for your own way's cut off. There are many still on household and releations depending fools around, resting in luxurious resorts stolen from the Gems, who use other householders conceit to maintain the trade on cultur-marxism.

Where and from whom did Nyom get all his ideas and inspirations? From people who had left all societies or from people who even live in improper dependency?

It would really not help if just wishing to run away from what is a formation, but to leave one level after another, with gratitude to a refined.

It's really not for ones benefit f having heared of liberty caught in a prison and urge for revolts, suggesting others are the reason for ones situation, although modern and worlds heros ways, lead neither to better for oneself nor to anybodies release.

Does Nyom desire to become another fool like Ghandi, Malcom, Stalin, Hitler,, Pol Pot, Devadatta, to win favor and then ending up in hell by one self?

A father can advice a child, introduce one into tradition, but he has no control over the child whether understanding, maintaining and make proper use of it, for own liberation and to leave a trace behind in the world.

So follow the schizophrenia and suicide tending and improving ones or those who give one a place of stand, a tradiin and healthy food till the path can be walked alone to it's end?

Are you able to relay just on one Dhamma, when hearing it, finally renounce with no return?

Or are you, and Atma uses you and not Nyom, still after food providing for habitual home, nurishing ones own stand, "this and nothing else".

Meanwhile my person will go on to care on to do some housekeeping, prepear given Dhamma to be easy read and shareable while the transcendent Yogis may care about higher as thinking deserving and earned rightly already ... one living in a palace or leaving home, yet still the keys in ones bag, havn't met the four messages, will again and again relay on "bad" friend...

If a father would likes his sons to go through the same hardshipps, of course he wouldn't tell stories of the past in relation with releasing Dhamma, but just the stories, let them find out by huge suffering by themselves.

May you all find time to investigate links and sidestories to get always a broad and clear picture of your ancestors, parents, great teachers and not only use them off for own ideas.

If you are smart, try to follow the other Brahmas here, doning services, focus on Sila and giving into rather to defend positions or worship ones fake modesty dwelling in self-pitty.

Become a skilled servant, giver to loosen the gross conceit. Vipassana needs falling for first and observes that by doing. From cross to fine, one single Dhamma, pattern.

mudita
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Re: Relay on what and whom?
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2019, 01:40:48 PM »
It should be clarified that among the Dhammapada collections in the Canon, only the Dhammapada verses are trustworthy as belonging to the Buddha’s Teachings. The Dhammapada stories come from the traditional commentaries so any dhamma teachings in them should be cross-checked with the suttas and vinaya to filter out any counterfeit dhamma.

Did Nyom saddhamma cross-checked, reflect, the above Dhammapada commentary story? Maybe he likes to share particular on it, some self - reflections. Where he sees "him" and what he seens in relation with release. Right here and now, timeless.

Most modern, not thinking on their things first, on own duties in their relations, may assume that the old Brahmin has rights and the bad have been the monks not giving. But actually it's because he had already feeded Nissaya previous, he could gain his teacher. Note that most teaching are toward monks to correct and turn out into poision if contexts is missused.

There are many teachings included here and here in this tread, for many different relations but not seen if no proper attention and wrong stand, mistaken.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 01:50:18 PM by Johann »
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Re: Relay on what and whom?
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2019, 04:07:20 AM »
Dear Bhante Johann,
It is still difficult for me to decipher Bhante's main objections but from what I can gather from Bhante's responses, Bhante's main objections are that:
  • the Dhammapada stories should be exempt from scrutiny with reference to the dhammavinaya under the guidelines of the Mahāpadesā sutta.
  • subjecting the teachings of the elders to scrutiny with reference to the dhammavinaya is a disrespect to one's elders.

For objection #1, Bhante need not worry as the sound core will stand the test.

For objection #2, I have already pointed out the Thera sutta (AN 5.88) which discusses the two types of elders to Bhante in another thread. There are elders who do not see the dhamma so they think that more teachings need to be added to make the dhamma complete. Perhaps the following excerpt from the Pasadika sutta can also help Bhante to understand that pointing out what is true dhamma from what is not true dhamma need not be seen as a sign of disrespect to the elders:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

“Udaka Rāmaputta5 once made this statement: ‘Seeing, one doesn’t see.’ And what is it that, ‘seeing, one doesn’t see’? One sees the blade of a well-sharpened razor, but not the edge of the razor. This, Cunda, is called, ‘seeing, one doesn’t see.’ But this statement of Uddaka Rāmaputta is base, vulgar, common, ignoble, unprofitable, dealing only with a razor.

“But how would one, speaking rightly, say, ‘Seeing, one doesn’t see’? One speaking rightly, would say just this: ‘Seeing, one doesn’t see.’ And what is it that, ‘seeing, one doesn’t see’? Such a well-expounded, entirely complete, well-proclaimed holy life, consummate in all its aspects, complete in all its aspects, with nothing lacking and nothing in excess: This is what one sees. One doesn’t see, ‘If this were taken away from here, it would become purer.’ One doesn’t see, ‘If this were added here, it would become more complete.’ This is called, ‘seeing, one doesn’t see.’

“Cunda, if one speaking rightly were to say, ‘a well-expounded, entirely complete, well-proclaimed holy life, consummate in all its aspects, complete in all its aspects, with nothing lacking and nothing in excess,’ he would, speaking rightly, say it of this: ‘a well-expounded, entirely complete, well-proclaimed holy life, consummate in all its aspects, complete in all its aspects, with nothing lacking and nothing in excess.’

That this Holy Life May Long Endure

“Therefore, Cunda, with regard to the qualities I have taught, having directly known them, you should all, having assembled & gathered together, recite & compare6 meaning with meaning, expression with expression, so that this holy life may long endure & remain steadfast for the benefit, welfare, & happiness of the multitude; out of sympathy for the world; for the benefit, welfare, & happiness of human beings & devas. And which are the qualities I have taught that you should all, having assembled & gathered together, recite & compare meaning with meaning, expression with expression, so that this holy life may long endure & remain steadfast for the benefit, welfare, & happiness of the multitude; out of sympathy for the world; for the benefit, welfare, & happiness of human beings & devas? The four establishings of mindfulness, the four right exertions, the four bases of power, the five faculties, the five strengths, the seven factors for awakening, the noble eightfold path.7 These are the qualities I have taught that you should all, having assembled & gathered together, recite & compare meaning with meaning, expression with expression, so that this holy life may long endure & remain steadfast for the benefit, welfare, & happiness of the multitude; out of sympathy for the world; for the benefit, welfare, & happiness of human beings & devas. In them, you should train yourselves harmoniously, cordially, without dispute.

“If one of your fellows in the holy life should speak of the Dhamma in the Saṅgha, and if the thought occurs to you, ‘Friends, this venerable one has grasped the wrong meaning and picked up the wrong expression,’ you should express neither delight nor scorn. Neither delighting nor scorning, you should say to him, ‘With regard to this meaning, friend, there are these expressions or those expressions. Which are the more pertinent? And with regard to these expressions, there is this meaning or that meaning. Which is the more pertinent?’

“If he should say, ‘Friends, with regard to this meaning, these expressions are more pertinent than those; and with regard to these expressions, this meaning is more pertinent than that,’ then he is neither to be praised nor disparaged. Neither praising nor disparaging him, you should show him how to examine that meaning & those expressions.

“If another one of your fellows in the holy life should speak of the Dhamma in the Saṅgha, and if the thought occurs to you, ‘Friends, this venerable one has grasped the wrong meaning but picked up the right expression,’ you should express neither delight nor scorn. Neither delighting nor scorning, you should say to him, ‘With regard to these expressions, there is this meaning or that meaning. Which is the more pertinent?’

“If he should say, ‘Friends, with regard to these expressions, this meaning is more pertinent than that,’ then he is neither to be praised nor disparaged. Neither praising nor disparaging him, you should show him how to examine that meaning.

“If another one of your fellows in the holy life should speak of the Dhamma in the Saṅgha, and if the thought occurs to you, ‘Friends, this venerable one has grasped the right meaning but picked up the wrong expression,’ you should express neither delight nor scorn. Neither delighting nor scorning, you should say to him, ‘With regard to this meaning, friend, there are these expressions or those expressions. Which are the more pertinent?’

“If he should say, ‘Friends, with regard to this meaning, these expressions are more pertinent than those,’ then he is neither to be praised nor disparaged. Neither praising nor disparaging him, you should show him how to examine those expressions.

“If another one of your fellows in the holy life should speak of the Dhamma in the Saṅgha, and if the thought occurs to you, ‘Friends, this venerable one has grasped the right meaning and picked up the right expression,’ saying, ‘Excellent,’ you should express delight & rejoice in his statement. Expressing delight & rejoicing in his statement, saying, ‘Excellent,’ you should say to him, ‘It’s a gain for us, friend, a great gain, that we see a venerable one like you who has entered into the meaning and the expression in this way.’

* Johann : dquote bbc added
« Last Edit: November 21, 2019, 06:44:56 AM by Johann »

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Re: Relay on what and whom?
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2019, 06:07:02 AM »

Aavusa Saddhamma,
I didn't feel the idea of books recommended inside your quote that's why didn't reply.

Why?
Because I have some strong arguments regarding few topics on Vinaypitaka, Majjhima Nikaya,... Regarding reading of AN 14.180 ,yes,  I am trying to find/look it over internet... still my preference is to remain dependent on core teachings of buddha which are 5 sheela at body & mind level, impermanence, 4 noble truths, 8 fold noble path, Anapaana . Along with this, I also self-practised meditation while doing free service(involving hard physical work at a religious place) during previous spiritual journey.

Namo Buddhaya,

Āvuso Vivek,
As stated in the Pāsādika sutta I quoted, the core teachings of the Buddha are the bodhipakkhiyā dhammas, namely The four establishings of mindfulness, the four right exertions, the four bases of power, the five faculties, the five powers, the seven factors for awakening, the noble eightfold path. The list of references I provided are well in conformity and free from patchworks with respect to these core teachings.

May Āvuso Vivek feel free to make known any doubts or perplexities that may have arisen from the topics he has investigated on Vinaypitaka, Majjhima Nikaya... so far. Perhaps some experts on the dhamma and vinaya on this forum can help Āvuso Vivek to overcome his doubts or perplexities.

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Re: Relay on what and whom?
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2019, 06:11:51 AM »
Good, Nyom saddhamma .

If knowing, seeing, then, knowing and seeing to relay on what and whom, may Nyom wander on well.

As it might be that it happens fast to do not grasp the meaning and attach wrongly grasped, knowing and seeing just as far as one as came in touch, to something and someone.

As one perceives, one thinks. Of what one holds to, goes after, there he arives, stays, and turns around.

It's, how ever, for possible needed improvement, to take also the occassion here, as the story around "Whom to follow", dhp 76, for ones reflection, with one, on his journey. But that, this suggestion, and those before, are just another comments, maybe even found in older statement, delivered and maintained by the Savaka Sangha, the elders.

* Johann of(f)-topic: Btw., as it came to mind, did Nyom already visited Ven. Thanissaro and spend times with him. He is already old but more near,  Nyom, in many regard. For Nyom isn't that young either and things to far, in many regard, might be not in reach. It's good to do service to near elders in reach
« Last Edit: November 21, 2019, 02:26:48 PM by Johann »
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