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Author Topic: Food and the danger of conceit: Devadatta-Dhamma  (Read 1157 times)

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Offline Johann

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Food and the danger of conceit: Devadatta-Dhamma
« on: January 07, 2020, 10:06:09 AM »

Aramika   *

Dieses neue Thema (bzw. diese/r Beitrag/e) wurde  aus abgetrennten Beiträgen, ursprünglich in ដាំដោយគ្មានដី ការចិញ្ចឹមជីវិតត្រឹមត្រូវ Planting without soil & harm Hydroponics , hinzugefügt. Für ev. ergänzende Informationen zur sehen Sie bitte das Ursprugsthema ein. Anumodana!

[Original post:]


Beware of Devadatta and his host, Upasaka karl_lew . Not only today he and his following tried to win favor for gain by similar means, yet not dear to kill, kill even Arahats, take existance. Take care, there are many out there no more possible to grow in Dhamma.

It's not by food that beings purify themselfs and "good food promoter" had been often most harmful people in history.

Also, may he not forget that the taking of equipment, desire for it, energy... often actually cause more harm globally. If generosity isn't based on Silas, it makes all just more worse, like scientific shows well all over the world. As long as there is desire for the world (senses) all "good" turns out bad act-ually.

Why is that? Because it's all based on wrong view.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2020, 10:14:24 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline karl_lew

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Re: Food and the danger of conceit: Devadatta-Dhamma
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2020, 12:45:49 AM »
Possessions, honor and popularity have nothing to do with feeding monks.

I see that feeding monks in the west is a problem because of lack of generosity. The west is obsessed with gain, with money. And in the west it is common to support monastics with money. Yet what is missing is that human daily dana of food to sustain a living being.

That is why we may need to learn how to grow and give food in the west. We need to step away from the money cycle.

It is hard to grow in soil. It is easy to grow in hydroponics. We don't need fancy electronics. If the sun is weak or the air is cold, then we can grow inside with a simple light. And then we can share that food with others and with monastics. We can give food and start the cycle of giving for Dhamma.

I do not see what that has to do with Devadatta.

Offline Johann

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Re: Food and the danger of conceit: Devadatta-Dhamma
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2020, 07:37:22 AM »
To paint a picture of perfection, Nyom karl_lew .

Modern people are caught by the defilemts who argue "if not perfect" better not. So they let starve others on hypocratical opinions.

What that has to do with Devadatta? He uses such outwardly perfecter looking arguments to disregard right practicing people. "Monks should not eat meat" for example.

It's total nonsens to think, when "feeding" monks, on "super-clean-vegan" or other hypocritical ideas.
If the idea of "we need to feed monks" is already beside the use. People have, if wise, changes to do merits if meeting monks and that could be done even by not good obtained things. But as soon as a idea of organicing food for monks arises, what ever will be akusala fast.

The host of Sujato and his Kibbutz is therefore to be feared, since all they are after is honor and gain in the world.

So again. Good livelihood is one topic. Giving another. If monks and laypeople organice communities an livelihood together is just uge corruption.

Monks have bowls and feets so that nobody is burdended or even arrives on justifying common way and actions which bind to the world.

People at large seek always reasons to stay bond in the chain of worldly food, oldage, sickness and death.

Upanissaya with higher isn't gained by matters of gross food Nyom, no matter which kind and purification not reached by food.

But my person thinks that it's good to splitt the topic a little, since it already has becomed a matter of path.

Mudita
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline karl_lew

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Re: Food and the danger of conceit: Devadatta-Dhamma
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2020, 04:43:29 AM »
Anfang dieser Woche habe ich im Hof ​​meines Nachbarn einen Hydrokultur-Brokkoli gepflanzt. Wir waren viele Jahre fremd. Jetzt geben wir uns gegenseitig Zeug.

Bitte entschuldigen Sie, wenn ich die falsche Sprache gewählt habe. Der Buddha hat mich gelehrt zu geben.

Offline Johann

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Re: Food and the danger of conceit: Devadatta-Dhamma
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2020, 05:54:04 AM »
Sadhu, Sadhu.

Da is kein Geschenk größer, als das Geschick des Gebens zu erhalten, zu lernen, Nyom karl_lew , ganz egal was man zu geben und loslassen vermag.

Und geben fördert Bande. Deshalb nennt man es Geschick für einen Weg den man bestrebt.


There isn't any gift greater then to receive and learn the skill of giving, no matter of what one would be able to give or let go.

And giving increases bonds. Therefore it's called a skill for a way of which on desires for.


Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

Kaladana Sutta

"There are these five seasonable gifts. Which five? One gives to a newcomer. One gives to one going away. One gives to one who is ill. One gives in time of famine. One sets the first fruits of field & orchard in front of those who are virtuous. These are the five seasonable gifts."


In the proper season they give —
   those with discernment,
   responsive, free from stinginess.
Having been given in proper season,
with hearts inspired by the Noble Ones
   — straightened, Such —
their offering bears an abundance.
Those who rejoice in that gift
   or give assistance,
they, too, have a share of the merit,
   and the offering isn't depleted by that.
So, with an unhesitant mind,
one should give where the gift bears great fruit.
   Merit is what establishes
   living beings in the next life.


"Da sind diese fünf wohlangebrachten Geschenke. Welche fünf? Jemand gibt einem Neuankommenden. Jemand gibt einem Abschiednehmenden. Jemand gibt einem der krank ist. Jemand gibt in Zeiten von Hungersnot. Jemand legt die ersten Füchte der Felder und Obstgärten vor jene, die tugendhaft sind hin. Das sind die fünf wohlangebrachten Geschenke."


Zur rechten Zeit geben sie —
   jene mit Einsicht,
   offenherzig, frei von Knausrigkeit.
Zur rechten Zeit gegeben,
mit einem Herz inspirirt von noblen Leut’
   — gerichtet, So —
tragen ihre Gaben Reichhaltigkeit.
Jene die Mitfreud mit so einem Geschenk
   oder dabei Hilfe erweisen,
auch diese haben Anteil an dem Verdienst,
   und ist die Gabe damit nicht ausgelaugt.
So sollte man mit unzögerlichem Geist geben,
dort wo es große Früchte trägt.
   Verdienste sind es die Lebewesen
   in ihrer nächsten Existenz etablieren.

* Johann : What ever language Nyom likes to give. No demands, no limits.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2020, 06:11:43 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline karl_lew

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Re: Food and the danger of conceit: Devadatta-Dhamma
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2020, 06:29:09 AM »

Dann habe ich vielleicht falsch verstanden. Welches Geschenk der Hydrokultur könnte man den Mönchen machen? Ich habe selbst von YouTube und FaceBook gelernt.

Es macht für mich keinen Sinn, das bereits Gelieferte zu wiederholen.

Offline Johann

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Re: Food and the danger of conceit: Devadatta-Dhamma
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2020, 06:48:59 AM »

Dann habe ich vielleicht falsch verstanden. Welches Geschenk der Hydrokultur könnte man den Mönchen machen? Ich habe selbst von YouTube und FaceBook gelernt.

Es macht für mich keinen Sinn, das bereits Gelieferte zu wiederholen.

Das Geschenk von Tugend, ist ein Geschenk, welches Upanissaya mit Devas, Götter, der Savaka Sangha und deren hingabevollen Nachfolgen nährt.

Gibt einer bewußt, was einem gehört und rechtens erlangt, was immer für Dinge, Talente, eben basierend auf dieser Tugend, auch dieses nährt Upanissaya gegenüber Tugendhaften und Ungebundenheit.

Weder nehmen diese in Wegen die üblich sein mögen, noch streben diese sich in Gemeinen einzubringen.

Selbst wenn da einer nichts eigenes zu geben hat, so ist es das Geschenk der Tugend welches gute Bande nährt, Nyom karl_lew .

Wer würde, wenn er weiß, tugendhafte einladen sich an Niedriges zu binden, oder gar ermutigen zu nehmen was nicht gegeben ist.

Leute die meinen, daß es um Produkt, Produktivität geht, sie alle, Austausch mit jenen falscher Sichweise getan, vermögen dieser angehäuften Schuld nicht entrinnen, stark sind sie an Mara gebunden, die Elternlosen Kinder des Marxismus, Sklaven des Bezugs.

Zu unpassender Zeit gegeben, genommen, gebunden im Kreislauf der Welt.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline karl_lew

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Re: Food and the danger of conceit: Devadatta-Dhamma
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2020, 09:07:30 AM »
Möge Ihre Schüssel niemals leer sein und möge Ihren Herz jemals voll sein

Offline Johann

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Re: Food and the danger of conceit: Devadatta-Dhamma
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2020, 09:34:37 AM »
Auch dieses hat Ursachen, guter Haushälter karl_lew

Atma mag ihm, wenn es es annehmen möchte, 3 Dinge zum Verständnis geben.

Zum ersten ein kleiner Aufsatz: Geben, nehmen und die "neue" Welt "Arbeit macht frei!?", ist ein Satz den man nicht mag.

Dann über Schulden: Debts, but to whom  

Und dann ein Sutta warum viele an Brahma gebunden sind, und wie der Buddha Weg gibt sich von diesen Verwirrten Brahmas zu lösen: Die Brahma-Einladung

Der Buddha und dessen gute Schüler befreien Sklaven nicht, denn dieses wäre Diebstahl, doch zeigen sie, wenndiese es annehmen vermögen, wie sie dem Band mit Brahma, Devadatta, Mara entkommen könnten, wenn die Bürde darin erkennend.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline karl_lew

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Re: Food and the danger of conceit: Devadatta-Dhamma
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2020, 11:53:27 AM »
Vielen Dank. Drei mal.

Zum ersten: Daran ist nichts festzuhalten
Zum zweiten: Daran ist nichts festzuhalten
Zum dritten: Daran ist nichts festzuhalten
Alles, was geboren wird, stirbt.


Aufrichtige Entschuldigungen. Ich dachte, dass Informationen über die Hydrokultur benötigt würden. Wenn es Interesse gibt, habe ich dies vor langer Zeit gepostet. Hier wird nur Arbeit ohne Gewinnerwartung angeboten.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSxSccEdXWw&t=124s


Offline Johann

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Re: Food and the danger of conceit: Devadatta-Dhamma
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2020, 12:14:58 PM »
Vielen Dank. Drei mal.

Zum ersten: Daran ist nichts festzuhalten
Zum zweiten: Daran ist nichts festzuhalten
Zum dritten: Daran ist nichts festzuhalten
Alles, was geboren wird, stirbt.



Leute, die solches aussprechen, und danach zu Tisch gehen, die Jains, nannte der Buddha Diebe, guter Haushälter karl_lew

Und es ist mehr als seltsam sich youtube und anderes als Zuflucht zu nehmen, und Hingabe in die Juwelen sogleich als "nichts woran man festhlten kann", zu bezeichnen: etwas zum Nachdenken über wo man eigentlich Zuflucht nimmt.

Gut, wenn guter Haushälter die Gelegenheit nimmt, hier Ansichten zu begradigen.

Was die Gabe betrifft, ist es gut, wenn er versteht, daß Mönche nicht an einem Tisch mit Laien essen, und sich auch tugendhafte Laien nicht in Abhängigkeit gewöhnlicher Konsumentenvereinigungen begeben.

Wenn er inspiriert is etwas den drei Juwelen zu widmen, der Sangha und deren vertrauensvollen Nachvoller, kann er das jederzeit tun.

http://accesstoinsight.eu/en/wiki/index ist zum Beispiel eine Möglichkeit.

* Johann : abseits vom mentalen. Was immer man in GNU, Commons und gewöhnliches gibt, hat man gesetzlich auch für Schechtes damit tun zu geben, stimmt akusala per Gesetz und Konfenzion zu.
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Offline Johann

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Re: Food and the danger of conceit: Devadatta-Dhamma
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2020, 03:28:12 PM »
People, for the most have no ideas of what they give into and for others it's not even a special to get displayed what it is all about. Idebted there is no escape:

Quote from: medias
Mark Zuckerberg reveals his love of hunting: Facebook CEO says animals taste better when you've killed them yourself in Facebook live video of his debate cook out
Mark Zuckerberg live streamed from his Palo Alto backyard on Sunday
Told viewers he was smoking a brisket and ribs to enjoy with the debate 
Facebook founder says he enjoys grilling, hunting and racing as well
The billionaire said hunting is a good way to 'feel connected to nature'

The same works with known "Dhammic" places... Sujatos and co. some prefere killing people and Noble ones instead.

Is it the same "feeling connected with nature/world" when raising vegetable, Nyom karl_lew ?

This could then maybe the reason for such Upanissaya.
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Re: Food and the danger of conceit: Devadatta-Dhamma
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2020, 11:32:05 PM »

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

And how is a religious donation purified by both the giver and the recipient? It’s when both the giver and the recipient are ethical, of good character.
Quote from: AN4.78:5.1

Observing precepts while gardening is quite difficult. It is also necessary.

Am I a thief? Absolutely.  For now, I aspire to be a petty thief, taking only as needed as little as I can. Eventually even that won't be needed and I will no longer be a thief.

* Johann : bb-code added
« Last Edit: January 11, 2020, 06:22:14 AM by Johann »

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Re: Food and the danger of conceit: Devadatta-Dhamma
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2020, 06:04:28 AM »
But, householder karl_lew , it's not possible to ever grow in Dhamma, if one is of strong wrong view, thinking either wrong doing wouln'd matter or purification comes by it's own, not to speak of gaining right view when associating with people of wrong view. One simply increases the hindrances and wrong ideas.

My person doesn't think that Nyom needs to farm to maintain a live (if that gets in conflict with Silas), and sure the right effort turns around right view, ...livelihood.

* Johann : Nyom may feel given to make what ever good use of the Dhamma on accesstoinsight.org or zugangzureinsicht.org to relay on personal given.

Does Nyom understand why it is possible that certain purification can be obtained by trading with Noble Ones, if not of grave wrong view, while trading with ordinary people bears less fruits?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2020, 06:31:31 AM by Johann »
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Re: Food and the danger of conceit: Devadatta-Dhamma
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2020, 11:43:50 PM »
The path is gentle and gradual. I am learning to say "Thank you" and "Please" to the plants. When I uproot a weed, I put it somewhere else in the garden. In these small ways skill grows.

The plants do answer. When I am a thief taking what I want, they taste angry and bitter. When I am gentle and caring, asking only for what I need, then I find the food taste sweeter, filled with joy. In this way, the garden is teaching me kindness.

There is no end to skillful means. Am I still a thief? Yes, but less so every day.

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