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Title: Sharing merits and dedication of merits
Post by: Danilo on March 04, 2018, 12:44:58 AM

Aramika   *

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The new topic (or post/s) here are originaly from How and where to give and share a translation? (http://forum.sangham.net/index.php?topic=8424.0). For eventual additionally information: please visit also the Topic of origin. Anumodana!

[Original post:]


 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

It's good to consider and give a dedication (to whom) and to share the merits as well, when offering, Nyom Danilo . Being the most importand part to have the best possible mindstate and directing of sacrify, take your time and what place best suits to your aspiration.

Since the translation wasn't given to a individual in specific, like Bhante instructed:

Maintain by what ever service and giving Nyom Danilo feels inspired, a vision of the Noble Sangha rather something personal grasped as myself, for me for us...
What would be a dedication in the context of dana?

Keep the intention to serve the Noble Sangha.
Is this a dedication?

Keep the wish that everyone have a share in the fruits yielded by meritorious deeds performed by me (even if I know that this is impossible).
Is this sharing merits?

 _/\_
Title: Re: Sharing merits and dedication of merits
Post by: Dhammañāṇa on March 04, 2018, 01:44:41 AM
Sadhu for asking further, Nyom Danilo

_/\_ _/\_ _/\_

It's good to consider and give a dedication (to whom) and to share the merits as well, when offering, Nyom Danilo . Being the most importand part to have the best possible mindstate and directing of sacrify, take your time and what place best suits to your aspiration.

Since the translation wasn't given to a individual in specific, like Bhante instructed:

Maintain by what ever service and giving Nyom Danilo feels inspired, a vision of the Noble Sangha rather something personal grasped as myself, for me for us...

What would be a dedication in the context of dana?


That was a wise, most wisest choice, if being dedicated to those freed of defilments, perfect in their conduct and the most sublime object of dedication to be found in this world, the great field of merits.

(Althought especially in the modern world not so usual, it's good to express dedication, so that no one might get it wrong, and present receiver for it (those who possible accept it on that behave of intention, would take best possible care for the final recipient and that those not objected, would not make mistakenly make it theirs. So to avoid misunderstandings.))

One could formulate such like: "May "so-and-so", out of compassion and for my and many others benefit, accept this gift, dedicated for the Noble Sangha, represented by the Sangha of the eight direction, as well by their novices and following, and make proper use of it, having given the elders the first share. For a second time... For a third time... the first share."

Keep the intention to serve the Noble Sangha.
Is this a dedication?

Keep the wish that everyone have a share in the fruits yielded by meritorious deeds performed by me (even if I know that this is impossible).


Is this sharing merits?

 _/\_

It was probably not well pointed out by my person. One is the recipient, one is a dedication. The recipent might be also the object of dedication "may so-and-so receive it", while giving to someone who might be not the physical targed for now. Mental, if it can be expected that it might come to the final recipient, it's good to hold on the final dedication.

Sharing merits means to give (possible all, starting by one parents, teacher... devas... all beings) others the change to rejoice by getting known ones good deeds. For someone capaple to receive this offer, to rejoice with it, he/she takes part on it, is able, by the act of joy with it, to make the same merits, or even higher, just by getting this chance. A practice, especially verbal and physical, not very usuall and welcome in modern world.

Some more detail explainings are given here Re: Sharing merits - Freude teilen (pattanumodana & pattidana) [Forum Guide] (http://forum.sangham.net/index.php/topic,326.msg13806.html#msg13806) (not all in english for now, maybe tomorrow a try for an english Audio on it).

With the giving of the share (mudita) one possible reaches, by giving even ones merits, the Brahmarealm, if not even more already by having the Noble Sangha firm and right in mind.

Just to mention: to give the share of good, possible best accessable for all, means that it might costs ones honor of those not happy on seeing good deeds, which is why people often do not like to make it hear and visible. (Some old friends might think: 'look he has gone cracy.' or don't like the recipient to gain.) That's "vanna maccharia (http://forum.sangham.net/index.php/topic,8417.msg13991/topicseen.html#new)" which hinders here, stingyness in regard of ones estimate/honor. And Atma therefor suggests to cut off the certain post on it, to share the merits of Dhammalistening and Dhammatalk.

So in two ways here regarded: in words and practical doing to see, investigate, and know for one self.
Title: Re: Sharing merits and dedication of merits
Post by: Dhammañāṇa on March 04, 2018, 02:21:56 AM
If having done in this way and released, given totally, if not having gained path or fruit (meaning, there is still a certain hold on it), this hold, a refine (a remembering "I used to do such a deed"), can be used everywhere and all the time to gain access-concentration (http://forum.sangham.net/index.php/topic,8241.0.html), in "Reflecting ones generosity", and later fill the pot to gain path and fruit.

The "wordily sideeffects", of in this case being gifted by receiving Dhamma in the future, and longlive, beauty, happiness and strength (now, later, in existences which might come) are nevertheless be garanted to fall back to one according ones deeds and proper soil to ripe.

It's, if not so-called "Anfänger-Glück" (beginner-luck) something to train and do it again and again, to place the ball perfect into the basket.

So-called beginner are not beginner, and there are cases where given faith suddendly turns to firm doubtlessness.

Mudita

(And an recipient, having accepted, if not direct the target, has nothing but burdens to bring it to it's aim, either physical or by becoming the target... while the giver simply gains release :) lucky, from objectivity in the realms, those who can make merits and not required to live on other ones merits for now, having everywhere to danger to increase debts, which of course pulling toward the object of the gift, even if a hard.)
Title: Re: Sharing merits and dedication of merits
Post by: Danilo on March 04, 2018, 09:41:15 AM
Then, if I got it right, give a dedication is similarly to concede ownership.
Is it supposed to have a notice to be attached to the work when give the dedication or is it just a mind state issue?

Just to mention: to give the share of good, possible best accessable for all, means that it might costs ones honor of those not happy on seeing good deeds, which is why people often do not like to make it hear and visible. (Some old friends might think: 'look he has gone cracy.' or don't like the recipient to gain.) That's "vanna maccharia (http://forum.sangham.net/index.php/topic,8417.msg13991/topicseen.html#new)" which hinders here, stingyness in regard of ones estimate/honor. And Atma therefor suggests to cut off the certain post on it, to share the merits of Dhammalistening and Dhammatalk.
So in two ways here regarded: in words and practical doing to see, investigate, and know for one self.

If having done in this way and released, given totally, if not having gained path or fruit (meaning, there is still a certain hold on it), this hold, a refine (a remembering "I used to do such a deed"), can be used everywhere and all the time to gain access-concentration (http://forum.sangham.net/index.php/topic,8241.0.html), in "Reflecting ones generosity", and later fill the pot to gain path and fruit.

The "wordily sideeffects", of in this case being gifted by receiving Dhamma in the future, and longlive, beauty, happiness and strength (now, later, in existences which might come) are nevertheless be garanted to fall back to one according ones deeds and proper soil to ripe.

It's, if not so-called "Anfänger-Glück" (beginner-luck) something to train and do it again and again, to place the ball perfect into the basket.

So-called beginner are not beginner, and there are cases where given faith suddendly turns to firm doubtlessness.

Mudita

(And an recipient, having accepted, if not direct the target, has nothing but burdens to bring it to it's aim, either physical or by becoming the target... while the giver simply gains release :) lucky, from objectivity in the realms, those who can make merits and not required to live on other ones merits for now, having everywhere to danger to increase debts, which of course pulling toward the object of the gift, even if a hard.)

I'm having a hard time trying to fully grasp what Ven. Johann wanted to mean in this parts. :'( Since is a crucial matter, I would be thankful if Bhante could explain again.  _/\_
Title: Re: Sharing merits and dedication of merits
Post by: Dhammañāṇa on March 04, 2018, 11:54:57 AM
* "concede ownership": yes

Since at least the mind, intentions count, it is (at least) not necessary to visible (by signs) proclaim a dedicatation, but that the receiver is able to accept (knowing "it's given to me, I can do something with it"), or to reject, (is not able to take because not being the assumed recipient, or not able to fullfill the wishes attached to it).
In short, that others are clear of your act and wish. As for a monk to be able to reveive, the personal physical giving into ones had, and/or giving by speech are necessary.

So the act of giving is practiced in three ways of actions, by mind (letting go & wish), by speech (informing of what giving, to whom, for what purpose) and the physical act, the handing over (with two hands) and waiting till it has been taken.

Has been taken: if physical transfering into ones hand is not possible, an expression of "Sadhu" or "it has been received" gives indication. Monks would sometimes stay silent if personal physical given.

So also for oneself, certain verbal and physical actions of the recipient are useful to have no doubts that it was received.

Althought all can be made without expressions, just by thinking, it's a very risky thing and everybody knows what troubles assumings or in trust can bring, both for giver and perceiver. That is why it is traditional made always very "formal" and not like mostly and very usual in modern days in a "cool" way.

* The secound part, release and results.

If a gift was given without, what the Buddha called "a adorment for the mind", if it is fully not only physical released, it has been the act of highest giving.

If certain wishes for it, certain toughts, what ever, are still attached, it lead to that aim. For example, if one desires to gain certain refined reward, as to be happy, or become a Deva... what ever, it leads to that.

How ever perfect the act was, it stays an according source to remember on it, to gain certain joy, eg. concentration, later. The more and often made, the easier one can access this source of joy, having more and more inclination to the joy gained by giving.

* the act of sharing merits, is not only a aspiration out of compassion for (all) others, but works additionaly agains stingyness and envy.
Althought it can be made also just mental, doing it verbal and physical as well, is the better and more effective way, like by giving, to let there be no doubt and best possibilities for the recipient.

Since also here, the complete path and depending co-arising can be found and traced, it is as simple as complex. It really should not burden in any present undertakings, but just be considered and addopted of what can be seen as benefical, or simply start the usual way, beginning outwardly and go then into mind.