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Open monastery, laity practice area- [Öffentliches Kloster, Laienpraxisbereich] (vata assama) => Heaven & Hell - [Himmel und Hölle] arupa-loka & apaya => Protests, Anger & Hell - [Proteste, Ärgernisse u. Hölle] niraya => Topic started by: Vorapol on December 15, 2016, 04:46:00 PM

Title: Anger and Vibhava: no way out of hell?
Post by: Vorapol on December 15, 2016, 04:46:00 PM

Aramika   *

Dieses neue Thema wurde  aus abgetrennten Beiträgen, ursprünglich in Forum First Page Translation in Pali And Thai (http://forum.sangham.net/index.php?topic=2286.0),  hier zu einem neuen eröffnen. Für ev. ergänzende Informationen zur Herkunft, sehen Sie bitte das Ursprugsthema ein. Anumodana!

The new topic here is made from one or more post from there Forum First Page Translation in Pali And Thai (http://forum.sangham.net/index.php?topic=2286.0). For eventual additionally information to this new Topic, please visit also the Topic of origin. Anumodana!

[Original post:]


I shouldn't have any  relationship with this board and you, who cut/change/modify tipitaka.  4. upāsaka not seek for the gift-worthy outside of the Buddha’s teaching. 5. upāsaka do his first service in a Buddhist cause.

Quote from: A.III.206.
[259] upāsakadhamma 5 — qualities of an excellent lay disciple
       1. upāsaka is endowed with faith (open mind in logic [paṭiccasamuppādadhamma, and buddha+sangha who teach it]).
       2. upāsaka have good conduct (sīla, 10 kusalakammapatha).
       3. upāsaka is not superstitious. upāsaka believing in deeds, not luck.
       4. upāsaka not seek for the gift-worthy outside of the Buddha’s teaching.
       5. upāsaka do his first service in a Buddhist cause.
http://www.84000.org/tipitaka/dic/d_item.php?i=259 (http://www.84000.org/tipitaka/dic/d_item.php?i=259)
Title: Re: Anger and Vibhava: no way out of hell?
Post by: Dhammañāṇa on December 15, 2016, 05:54:49 PM
Do as you wish and believe sankharas as you wish, but its good when you give you self a little bit more compassion and wisdom, which is often gained when simply remembering, sannja, sankharas, vedana, based on currend vinnana, its not sure, and patient with ones preoccupation is good. Its only you who could help your self to come down on earth again, Upasaka theY

Quote from: cuted out from the teachings and maybe not so good translated
1. upāsaka is endowed with faith (open mind in logic)
2. upāsaka have good conduct (sīla, 10 kusalakammapatha).
3. upāsaka is not superstitious. upāsaka believing in deeds, not luck.
How is it, how could it be, that "good conduct" leads into hell, to anger, red head, aversion?
Can it be found in 3.?

Even if given much metta & karuna, is it possible to help someone in rage?
Title: Antw:Re: Anger and Vibhava: no way out of hell?
Post by: Vorapol on December 15, 2016, 09:43:59 PM
Do as you wish and believe sankharas as you wish, but its good when you give you self a little bit more compassion and wisdom, which is often gained when simply remembering, sannja, sankharas, vedana, based on currend vinnana, its not sure, and patient with ones preoccupation is good. Its only you who could help your self to come down on earth again, Upasaka theY

Quote from: cuted out from the teachings and maybe not so good translated
1. upāsaka is endowed with faith (open mind in logic)
2. upāsaka have good conduct (sīla, 10 kusalakammapatha).
3. upāsaka is not superstitious. upāsaka believing in deeds, not luck.
How is it, how could it be, that "good conduct" leads into hell, to anger, red head, aversion?
Can it be found in 3.?

Even if given much metta & karuna, is it possible to help someone in rage?

Johann, tipitaka editor, you still editing tipitaka, in your last post.

In tipitaka taught 5 stuffs, you cut it to 3 stuffs.

You care only dissemination. You don't care about the origin. That's why you are not theravāda buddhist.

You don't care the relationship of tipitaka between words to words, book to book, etc.

This sutta come together 5 stuffs to tell students about theravāda-upāsaka, but you cut some stuffs off to make us talk out of theravāda buddhist, to be zen's upāsaka, or to be zen's monk, like you.

In vinaya, having acelakasikkhāpada, but you don't focus on it.

In commentary, anuruddha-etadagga who lived while 1 st sangayana, described this sutta in commentary, but you not even read commentary in the eyes.

Anyways, that sutta completely explain itself, but person who cut some part of it off will never understand it.
 
Title: Antw:Anger and Vibhava: no way out of hell?
Post by: Dhammañāṇa on December 15, 2016, 09:57:31 PM
So Upasaka theY is sure about the first three in his regard? For sure he thinks current khandhās are for sure,  but are they? Are preoccupations for sure if you prove them with less as possible concite?

Let it be known when you have tried another kind of thinking. Meanwhile people will be patient till Upasaka comes out of his movie so that he can use his time for being an helpful teacher with his respected knowledge in his mastered sphere.
Title: Antw:Re: Anger and Vibhava: no way out of hell?
Post by: Vorapol on December 15, 2016, 11:05:36 PM
Quote from: ??
How is it, how could it be, that "good conduct" leads into hell, to anger, red head, aversion?
Can it be found in 3.?

Number 3 of sutta mean to no logic = no deeds = no relationship = luck = niyatamicchādiṭṭhi 3  (http://84000.org/tipitaka/dic/d_seek.php?text=%B7%D4%AF%B0%D4+3&original=1) (it's english explanation inside link).

Hells and heavens are results(phala[fruit], vipāka[ripped]) of deeds (kamma), so it is not luck (niyatamicchādiṭṭhi 3). This sutta taught you in number 2, good conduct. But you do not relate it together because your teacher not even taught you nettipakaraṇa, Johann.

Number 3  relate to number 2 because the end of kusalakammapada 10 (good conduct), is sammādiṭṭhi (righteous conduct, kammassakatāsammādiṭṭhi) (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nanamoli/wheel248.html).

Quote
14. "And how are there three kinds of mental conduct in accordance with the Dhamma, righteous conduct? Here someone is not covetous: he is not a coveter of another's chattels and property thus: 'Oh, that what is another's were mine!' He has no mind of ill-will, with the intention of a mind unaffected by hate thus: 'May these beings be free from enmity, affliction and anxiety, may they live happily!' He has right view, undistorted vision, thus: 'There is what is given and what is offered and what is sacrificed, and there is fruit and ripening of good and bad kammas, and there is this world and the other world and mother and father and spontaneously (born) beings, and good and virtuous monks and brahmans that have themselves realized by direct knowledge and declared this world and the other world.' That is how there are three kinds of mental conduct in accordance with the Dhamma, righteous conduct.



However, person can have sasatadiṭṭhi (eternalism) before/after righteous conduct's born, because kammassakatāsammādiṭṭhi can control only niyatamicchditthi 3. It can not control ucchedadiṭṭhi and sasatadiṭṭhi.

Another, you, Johann, are ucchedadiṭṭhi (annihilationism) in Brahmajala sutta (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.01.0.bodh.html), too.

You take only the probably logic you loved, then cut another probably logic you hate. This is micchādiṭṭhi. So, you try to do not relate sutta together, relate sutta member together to keep your beloved view, and destroy your hated view (even though it maybe probably right).
Title: Antw:Anger and Vibhava: no way out of hell?
Post by: Dhammañāṇa on December 15, 2016, 11:26:05 PM
 Here in hell,  Upasaka would have planty of time for reflecting about him self.  What if Upasaka takes the chance rather to fight a battle against his outward world saññās?  Try it,  that is called practicing. Many things will be solved and back on sugati realms there is much possibility for dāna,  silā,  samādhi which them,  right done would maybe also lead to paññā,  even dassanāvija (vipassanā.  Its not possible without the previous steps.  Its just saññā that forms one ditthi after another,  forgetting the worldly and the transcentend right view. The cause and the way out of anger and pain,  upasaka theY.  Be patient with your self.

/me Atmas current eye view  :) making a Y in candle light in the dark night in the deep forest cave.
Title: Antw:Anger and Vibhava: no way out of hell?
Post by: Vorapol on December 15, 2016, 11:38:18 PM
Even if given much metta & karuna, is it possible to help someone in rage?

You must to memorize pali, to learn tipitaka by old learning system. It will make you more providence.

       4. upāsaka not seek for the gift-worthy outside of the Buddha’s teaching.
http://www.84000.org/tipitaka/dic/d_item.php?i=259 (http://www.84000.org/tipitaka/dic/d_item.php?i=259)

What is buddha's teaching?

Quote from: http://tipitaka.wikia.com/wiki/Upali_Sutta
‘Householder since long your clan has been a welling spring to the nigantas. I think morsel food should be offered to those that come.’

and

Quote from: http://www.84000.org/tipitaka/dic/d_item.php?i=259
4. upāsaka not seek for the gift-worthy outside of the Buddha’s teaching.

So, I can give you  rice, water, dress, etc. But I can't give any help for you  to cut off/modify tipitaka.

I also can't give you a relationship because someday I maybe change to be a tipitaka-modifier like you  ("Asevanā ca bālanaṃ", see mangalasutta 1 of 38 for reference).

Title: Antw:Anger and Vibhava: no way out of hell?
Post by: Vorapol on December 15, 2016, 11:52:08 PM
Here in hell,  Upasaka would have planty of time for reflecting about him self.  What if Upasaka takes the chance rather to fight a battle against his outward world saññās?  Try it,  that is called practicing. Many things will be solved and back on sugati realms there is much possibility for dāna,  silā,  samādhi which them,  right done would maybe also lead to paññā,  even dassanāvija (vipassanā.  Its not possible without the previous steps.  Its just saññā that forms one ditthi after another,  forgetting the worldly and the transcentend right view. The cause and the way out of anger and pain,  upasaka theY.  Be patient with your self.

/me Atmas current eye view  :) making a Y in candle light in the dark night in the deep forest cave.

Unlearned child is still  unlearned. Never read, never research, never learn any reference.

They just say what they wanna say to keep their insular view. They don't care any reference, or any origin.

That's why Johann is not theravada buddhist.

A zenist spy in theravada dress, Johann, delete my account, please. Don't send anything to me. I don't wanna know any tipitaka modifier, like you.
Title: Antw:Anger and Vibhava: no way out of hell?
Post by: Vorapol on December 16, 2016, 12:03:45 AM
A zenist spy in theravada dress, Johann, delete my account, please. Don't send anything to me. I don't wanna know any tipitaka modifier, like you.
Title: Antw:Anger and Vibhava: no way out of hell?
Post by: Dhammañāṇa on December 16, 2016, 12:05:29 AM
 Whould you more relexed,  if Atma tells you that he neither has any aspiration to be buddhist nor even a theravada buddhist.  It would be somehow very not very loyal in regard of the Buddha, dhamma saṅgha.

No suicite sand killing support. That would be against the precepts,  even if done in the name of the three gems.
Title: Antw:Anger and Vibhava: no way out of hell?
Post by: Vorapol on December 16, 2016, 12:46:54 AM
Whould you more relexed,  if Atma tells you that he neither has any aspiration to be buddhist nor even a theravada buddhist.  It would be somehow very not very loyal in regard of the Buddha, dhamma saṅgha.

No suicite sand killing support. That would be against the precepts,  even if done in the name of the three gems.

You dressing and using theravada tipitaka, zenist. You can act like ajitakesakambala. But arahanta will not act like you because they act like this sutta:

Quote from: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn01/sn01.025.wlsh.html
[Deva:]
He who's an Arahant, his work achieved,
Free from taints, in final body clad,
That monk still might use such words as "I."
Still perchance might say: "They call this mine."
...
Would such a monk be prone to vain conceits?

[The Blessed One:]
Bonds are gone for him without conceits,
All delusion's chains are cast aside:
Truly wise, he's gone beyond such thoughts.[1]
That monk still might use such words as "I,"
Still perchance might say: "They call this mine."
Well aware of common worldly speech,
He would speak conforming to such use.
Title: Antw:Anger and Vibhava: no way out of hell?
Post by: Dhammañāṇa on December 16, 2016, 12:51:33 AM
No way to help you here.

Metta

Johann:    *

For you protection, you possibilities within the Sanghamitta an especially Acarica-Membership having been disabled temporary since in a state of anger one could do much damage for one self and the are actually many very trust and awarness needed possibilities.  Let it be known when this state of mind has come to an end,  so that the great possible help of TheY could get it's best enviroment again.
Title: Antw:Anger and Vibhava: no way out of hell?
Post by: Vorapol on December 16, 2016, 12:52:16 AM
No suicite sand killing support. That would be against the precepts,  even if done in the name of the three gems.

Who taught you vinaya? Your precepts don't have reference by tipitaka.