Post by: Dhammañāṇa on November 06, 2019, 06:20:58 PM
Aramika 
Dieses neue Thema (bzw. diese/r Beitrag/e) wurde aus abgetrennten Beiträgen, ursprünglich in Medical plants, allowed medicine-Pflanzenheilmittel, erlaubte Medizin [bhesajja] (http://forum.sangham.net/index.php?topic=7927.0), hinzugefügt. Für ev. ergänzende Informationen zur sehen Sie bitte das Ursprugsthema ein. Anumodana!
The new topic (or post/s) here are originaly from Medical plants, allowed medicine-Pflanzenheilmittel, erlaubte Medizin [bhesajja] (http://forum.sangham.net/index.php?topic=7927.0). For eventual additionally information: please visit also the Topic of origin. Anumodana!
Okasa Venerables _/\_
My person just became aware of loṇasociraka (or loṇasovīraka salted sour gruel Vin i.210; VvA 99, following PTS, not familat with the source codes; maybe Ven. Grandfather Varado likes to help out here)
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa
(Mv.VI.16.3) On that occasion a certain monk had a stomach-wind illness. He drank some loṇasociraka.[3] His gas subsided. They reported the matter to the Blessed One.
“Monks, I allow that a bhikkhu who is sick may consume loṇasociraka as much as he likes, and that one who is not sick may consume it mixed with water as a beverage.”
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa
ភិក្ខុនោះបានផឹកថ្នាំ ឈ្មោះលោណសោចិរកៈ [1] ភិក្ខុនោះ ក៏បាត់អាពាធកើតអំពីខ្យល់ក្នុងពោះនោះទៅ។ ពួកភិក្ខុក្រាបបង្គំទូលដំណើរនុ៎ះ ចំពោះព្រះមានព្រះភាគ។ ព្រះអង្គទ្រង់ត្រាស់ថា ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ តថាគតអនុញ្ញាត ឲ្យភិក្ខុឈឺ ឆាន់ថ្នាំឈ្មោះលោណសោចិរកៈ (នោះ) បានតាមសប្បាយ ឲ្យភិក្ខុមិនឈឺ ឆាន់ថ្នាំលាយទឹក ដោយវិធីប្រើប្រាស់ដូចទឹក (មានទឹកផ្លែស្វាយជាដើម) បាន។
1. អដ្ឋកថា កែតតិយបារាជិកថា ថ្នាំឈ្មោះលោណសោចិរកនោះ គេធ្វើដាក់ផ្លែសម៉ កន្ទួតព្រៃ សម៉ពិភេគ គ្រឿងចត់ និងស្រូវទាំងពួង មានស្រូវសាលីជាដើម និងអបរណ្ណជាតិ មានសណ្តែកល្ងជាដើម និងបាយនៃស្រូវ៧ប្រការ មានស្រូវសាលីជាដើម និងផ្លែឈើទាំងពួង មានផ្លែចេកជាដើម និងលម្ពង់ឈើទាំងពួង មានលម្ពង់ផ្តៅ និងកាកោះជាដើម និងត្រីសាច់ និងភេសជ្ជៈជាច្រើន មានទឹកឃ្មុំ ទឹកអំពៅ អម្បិលសិន្ធវជាដើម ហើយត្រាំក្នុងភាជន៍ បិទមាត់ភាជន៍ឲ្យជិត ទុកឲ្យយូរកំណត់១ឆ្នាំ ២ឆ្នាំ ឬ៣ឆ្នាំក៏បាន។ ថ្នាំនោះក៏ឆ្អិនល្អ មានពណ៌ដូចទឹកផ្លែព្រីង សម្រាប់ឆាន់កែរោគខ្យល់ ក្អក ឃ្លង់ ស្គមលឿង និងឫសដូងបាទជាដើម ម្យ៉ាងទៀត ជាថ្នាំសម្រាប់ឆាន់ក្រោយបាយ។
Bhante Thanissaro assumed it as "fermented Soya-bean"-product.
My person wonders whether the Venerable may know more about it. My person can just think on a kind of "soya-chees" (looking like tofu and having an fermented smell, most in a red salty souce stored) people here use.
Maybe Bhante Khemakumara can ask Bhante Indaññāno as well.
Short translated the Khmer comment, it points to "Plum fruit"? ផ្លែសម៉, that would be the here as all time told Samau-fruit (http://forum.sangham.net/index.php/topic,7927.msg16215.html#msg16215), growing in the forest (even near here).
But the name was previous identified in context with: mv.06.02 (http://forum.sangham.net/index.php/topic,7927.msg16528.html#msg16528)
Post by: Dhammañāṇa on November 06, 2019, 07:17:04 PM
Aramika
Dieses neue Thema (bzw. diese/r Beitrag/e) wurde aus abgetrennten Beiträgen, ursprünglich in Medical plants, allowed medicine-Pflanzenheilmittel, erlaubte Medizin [bhesajja] (http://forum.sangham.net/index.php?topic=7927.0), hinzugefügt. Für ev. ergänzende Informationen zur sehen Sie bitte das Ursprugsthema ein. Anumodana!
The new topic (or post/s) here are originaly from Medical plants, allowed medicine-Pflanzenheilmittel, erlaubte Medizin [bhesajja] (http://forum.sangham.net/index.php?topic=7927.0). For eventual additionally information: please visit also the Topic of origin. Anumodana!
អដ្ឋកថា កែតតិយបារាជិកថា ថ្នាំឈ្មោះលោណសោចិរកនោះ គេធ្វើដាក់ផ្លែសម៉ កន្ទួតព្រៃ សម៉ពិភេគ គ្រឿងចត់ និងស្រូវទាំងពួង មានស្រូវសាលីជាដើម និងអបរណ្ណជាតិ មានសណ្តែកល្ងជាដើម និងបាយនៃស្រូវ៧ប្រការ មានស្រូវសាលីជាដើម និងផ្លែឈើទាំងពួង មានផ្លែចេកជាដើម និងលម្ពង់ឈើទាំងពួង មានលម្ពង់ផ្តៅ និងកាកោះជាដើម និងត្រីសាច់ និងភេសជ្ជៈជាច្រើន មានទឹកឃ្មុំ ទឹកអំពៅ អម្បិលសិន្ធវជាដើម ហើយត្រាំក្នុងភាជន៍ បិទមាត់ភាជន៍ឲ្យជិត ទុកឲ្យយូរកំណត់១ឆ្នាំ ២ឆ្នាំ ឬ៣ឆ្នាំក៏បាន។ ថ្នាំនោះក៏ឆ្អិនល្អ មានពណ៌ដូចទឹកផ្លែព្រីង សម្រាប់ឆាន់កែរោគខ្យល់ ក្អក ឃ្លង់ ស្គមលឿង និងឫសដូងបាទជាដើម ម្យ៉ាងទៀត ជាថ្នាំសម្រាប់ឆាន់ក្រោយបាយ។
The old telling say about the medicin called loṇasociraka was made from samau-fruit, forest-kanduart-fruit (see post below), Samau-Bibheg, bitter ingredients, and all kind of different corn having a bitter taste, bitter seam, and domestic rice corn of 7 kinds, normal rice, and all kinds of tree-fruits, banana, all kinds of tree-(wood/branches?លម្ពង់), rattan-wood, កាកោះ?, fish, and a lot of medicine (ភេសជ្ជៈ, bhesajja: butter, honey, sugar, ghee), honey, sugar can water, sea-salt. that was soaked in bowls which was then closed up and can be stored for one or two, three year ...
/me :(ohh... that sounds similar like that of what the homeless ladies at wat panna Maha Panna Foundation do, having that got also one!)...(off battery for now), maybe good to ask them on the detail ingredients of there many stored medicine they use (http://forum.sangham.net/index.php/topic,9010.msg16898.html#msg16898) to use all the time (said many kinds of fermented fruits...)
...This medicine is good well-done, has the color of the jambolan-fruit (dark violet), is to be taken to heal wind-disease, strong eructation, yellow skin (yellow fever), diarrhea and so on, is a medicine good to take after eating.
Maybe Nyom Cheav Villa can look over the translation and what ever inspired.
Post by: អរិយវង្ស on November 06, 2019, 08:27:34 PM
Post by: Dhammañāṇa on November 07, 2019, 10:35:47 AM
Post by: Dhammañāṇa on November 09, 2019, 10:33:19 AM
It's actually a paper mainly subjected on discreditating the SouthEastAsian ancestors with the means of tonics, in regard of the 5 tonics, who provided at least also certain bellies, and may match the topic on loṇasociraka as well.
As possible not having access to request wise, not tracing them, one may relay on the other aspects given in the Kalama sutta, for those not related yet, no refuge yet.
Accounts by Ajahn Brahm see Bhesajja
Post by: Dhammañāṇa on November 09, 2019, 10:50:43 AM
May Bhante Ariyadhammika and his skilled management team, out of compassion, be willing to help his relatives to point out the tiny, and most pleasing for it's purpose, path.
Additional, for seekers able to access, might be found at flick flickr.com or with the help of Brah Googles host, youtube or facebook.
Post by: អរិយវង្ស on November 13, 2019, 01:58:32 PM
ខ្ញុំកូណា បានទៅសុំជួបភិក្ខុនី នៅវត្តបញ្ញាធំ ព្រឹកមិញនេះ ។ ទូលតាមការណែនាំពីព្រះភិក្ខុសង្ឃ ដើម្បីសុំវិធី ធ្វើថ្នាំឈ្មោះ លោណសោចរិក ។
(I am) Bowing down, Brah Ang
I, Brah Karuna, desired to meet the Bhikkhunis at Wat Pañña Thom (Mahā Pañña) this morning. For assisting the Sublime Bhikkhu Sangha in regard of investigation of how a medicin, called loṇasociraka was made.
I, Brah Karuna, desired to meet the Bhikkhunis at Wat Pañña Thom (Mahā Pañña) this morning. For assisting the Sublime Bhikkhu Sangha in regard of investigation of how a medicin, called loṇasociraka was made.
ភិក្ខុីបានប្រាប់ថា អាចនឹងប្រាប់បាន តែចំណាយពេលមកមើល និងរៀនសូត្រដោយផ្ទាល់ ព្រោះឱសថនេះល្អពិតមែន បើសិនជា
យល់ដឹងវិធីថែរក្សាត្រឹមត្រូវ ។
The Bhikkunis told that they are not able to tell (by them for now) but for future times they will look and learn from the Suttas directly intensive, because this Usajha (medicine) is really a good one if it's understood and rightly maintained stored.
ផ្ទុយទៅវិញធ្លាប់ជួបគ្រោះថ្នាក់នៅប្រទេសថៃរួចហើយ នៅពេលមានអ្នករក្សាឱសថទុកមិនបានល្អ កើតផ្សុិត ពុលរហូតខូចភ្នែក ។
On the other side: there was an accident in Thailand already at the occasion where a person wasn't able to look over it well and so (it) became (infected by) fungus (which) poised the eyes.
ដូច្នេះភិក្ខុី មិនចង់អោយមានគ្រោះថ្នាក់នេះទៀត ។ សំណូមពរអោយមានអ្នកមករៀនវិធីធ្វើ របៀបថែរក្សាជាប្រចាំ ត្រូវកូរវាជារៀងរាល់ថ្ងៃ និងទុកដាក់ក្នុងបរិស្ថានល្អ..រហូត៧ឆ្នាំទើបមានប្រសិទ្ធិភាពខ្ពស់ ។
So the Bhikkhunis do not like to have such an accident happen in the future again. They ask for a person to be to be then well instructed by learning how to look for proper maintaining/storing (as) it needs to be daily stirred well and carefully kept clean... up to seven years (then) possible (to keep) it high effectively.
ចុងក្រោយ ខ្ញុំកូណាបានបរិច្ចាគបច្ច័យខ្លះសម្រាប់ទ្រទ្រង់វត្ត និងថ្វាយបង្គំលា ។
After this, I, Brah Karuna, had sacrificed some paccaya (means for conditions, gift) for the support/running of the monastery and to "bowing down (toward) letting go".
_/\_ _/\_ _/\_
![[img]](https://sangham.net/_detail/user:cheav_villa:gallery:cv_20191113_01.jpg)
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![[img]](https://sangham.net/_detail/user:cheav_villa:gallery:cv_20191113_02.jpg)
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![[img]](https://sangham.net/_detail/user:cheav_villa:gallery:cv_20191113_03.jpg)
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![[img]](https://sangham.net/_detail/user:cheav_villa:gallery:cv_20191113_04.jpg)
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![[img]](https://sangham.net/_detail/user:cheav_villa:gallery:cv_20191113_05.jpg)
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![[img]](https://sangham.net/_detail/user:cheav_villa:gallery:cv_20191113_06.jpg)
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![[img]](https://sangham.net/_detail/user:cheav_villa:gallery:cv_20191113_07.jpg)
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![[img]](https://sangham.net/_detail/user:cheav_villa:gallery:cv_20191113_08.jpg)
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/me attachments reorganiced.
Post by: Dhammañāṇa on November 13, 2019, 02:13:31 PM
Could Nyom Cheav Villa ask the Ven. Ladies of Maha Panna Foundation about the reception and ingredients of the medicine they use to do in large amout and how they do?
Post by: អរិយវង្ស on November 13, 2019, 02:29:52 PM
The Venerable ladies of Maha Panna Foundation would allow and tell the receipt and integredient after Kana or someone take time to learn or to see how she kept it or take good care of medecine first. Avoid of misunderstood of use.
_/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Post by: Dhammañāṇa on November 13, 2019, 03:01:49 PM
and may Nyom take the possibility for her self in all cases to spend time in association and learn, maybe taking Nyom Sophoeun or other devoted with her.
Maybe even Bhante Indaññāno and Bhante Khemakumara could join.
(Personally, having had received their generouse hospitality some days and also be served this tonic, but first not taken because very sensible and not able to take on something with even slight alcoholic flavor, took some having fallen sick with stomach flu another day, walked on better the next day, but had then seldom stronger diarrhea 30km north later.)
Nyom Chanroth reported at the last comming together, that he used to make medicine similar, while a monk. He left home as child with a wandering Dhutong-monk and wandered with him through the lands many years. He told to use whole Samau and Gaduat-fruits (the mentioned in the Tipitaka) and some other Atma didn't understood, putted them together with sugar, palmsugar salt into a jar and let it works out alone. After a while it would be a thick mass like tnaum-sugar (palmsugar) with dark color and was used to be eaten after meal and wind-disease. A lot of matches, reasonableness here as well.
/me : great to see that they had possible stopped the idea to cover the wall ( Sadhu) with large nature stone blocks btw. and Sadhu for hinting, and observing nature.
Post by: អរិយវង្ស on November 13, 2019, 03:18:08 PM
Post by: អរិយវង្ស on November 15, 2019, 12:13:21 PM
Aramika
Dieses neue Thema (bzw. diese/r Beitrag/e) wurde aus abgetrennten Beiträgen, ursprünglich in [Ashram] Thmo Duk (Schiffsfelsen), Aural, Cambodia, អាស្រម ថ្មទូក ស្រុកឪរ៉ាល់ (http://forum.sangham.net/index.php?topic=2375.0), hinzugefügt. Für ev. ergänzende Informationen zur sehen Sie bitte das Ursprugsthema ein. Anumodana!
The new topic (or post/s) here are originaly from [Ashram] Thmo Duk (Schiffsfelsen), Aural, Cambodia, អាស្រម ថ្មទូក ស្រុកឪរ៉ាល់ (http://forum.sangham.net/index.php?topic=2375.0). For eventual additionally information: please visit also the Topic of origin. Anumodana!
[Original post:]
កូណា ព្រះអង្គ :) _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
គឺផ្លែខ្វិតទុំ ។
_/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Kana, Brah Ang
that is the fruit Khwit, ripe.
Post by: Dhammañāṇa on November 15, 2019, 03:56:20 PM
Yesterday, having left the cave and inhabitants their ways, Atma reflected: "long do you spend here on one place, longer then ever" then the mighty on mountain Aural came into the ārammaṇa, "saying" : 'come up an leave it behind for a while". Thinking: "Alone makes no sense and selftortue. Also, what is there what isn't here for release avaliable? For lay people a burden when guiding. If the would be a monk asking to go with him: why not", and left the case abound.
This morning, on alms, a Venerable stopped approached, and gave fruit and milk. It was the Ven. who accidently met Atma already year before in same way and visited the Ashram short later, from an Ashram told south Speu. After having done he told that after returning from norther monastery, he would came to visit. Having invited him to stay and use the Ashram, he then asked: "Does Ven. like to go up to the mountain with me?". "it depends on why, when and how... (intention)" and then each walked on.
The fruit was one Atma mentioned to Nyom Chanroth two days before, discussing the special fermented medicine, as being a natural fermented one (tasting like truffle mixed with sugar) stored in a coconut like hard peel on the tree for long), hardly ever to gain here in this area, not see since 4 years. Having a slight alcoholic taste, Atma is only able to consume when sick.
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Ohh those Devas all around :)
![[img]](https://sangham.net/_detail/user:johann:gallery:archiv2019:20191115_01.jpg)
![[img]](https://sangham.net/_detail/user:johann:gallery:archiv2019:20191115_02.jpg)
Post by: អរិយវង្ស on November 15, 2019, 05:23:17 PM
Post by: អរិយវង្ស on November 15, 2019, 09:13:52 PM
Kana just search and see a suprising health benefits of WoodApple or Bel Fruit.
:) _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Post by: Dhammañāṇa on November 15, 2019, 10:07:59 PM
Limonia acidissima (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limonia_acidissima) "sour lemon", "The fruit is used to make a fruit juice...Ripe fruit can be used as "achaar- pickle" (mashed with green chilly, sugar and salt only)."
Quote from: https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limonia_acidissima
Die unreifen Früchte werden in Indien in der Volksmedizin verwendet. Die adstringierende Wirkung wird beispielsweise gegen Diarrhö und Dysenterie eingesetzt. Blätter, Borke, Wurzeln und Fruchtpülpe werden gegen Schlangenbisse eingesetzt.
The unripe fruits are used in Indian folkmedicine. The astringent efficiency is used against dysentery and diarrhea. Leaves, roots, ...are used against snake bites.
Sanskrit: kavaṭha Pali maybe Kavāṭa? "the panels of the door, the door proper, not the aperture" (pts) Filler, closer, upcloser? But that's all very "speculative".
The similar name in India may indicate that use of it derived from Indian area to Kampuchea.
And use would not go so straight against the habit of not storing "food" as a prepaired, brewed medicine would, fermenting on the tree.
The Khmer translation of "anujānāmi bhikkhave yathāsukhaṁ gilānassa loṇasocirakaṁ agilānassa udakasambhinnaṁ pānaparibhogena paribhuñjitunti" adds in bracks after pāna, drink/beverage "similar mango juice" to possible try to group it.
Post by: Dhammañāṇa on November 16, 2019, 12:27:50 PM
Post by: អរិយវង្ស on November 16, 2019, 01:41:11 PM
ខ្ញុំកូណានឹងបបួលបងសុភឿន ម្តងទៀត ។
ខ្ញុំកូណាកំពុងគិត អំពីការប្រាប់ ណែនាំំំំំំំំំំំំំំំំំំំំំំជាមុនរបស់ភិក្ខុនី ។
ត្រូវការបរិស្ថានល្អូ ដូចជានៅវត្តបញ្ញាជាដើម ស្ងួតដើម្បីរក្សា ទុកឱសថ មានដំបូល ជញ្ជាំង កាពារភ្លៀងខ្យល់ ... ជៀសវៀងកើតផ្សិត
និងត្រូវកូរជារៀងរាល់ថ្ងៃ ។
Kan, Brah Ang
I, Kana, will encourage older sister Sopheoun another time.
I, Kana, have currently become an illness that seeks for further hurting (infectious) which I wouldn't like to guide to the Bhikkhunis.
It needs a clean enviroment, like it is at Vatta Panna, modest, ... well done, steady looked after, stired up...
_/\_ _/\_ _/\_
/me : Transl. added
Post by: Dhammañāṇa on November 16, 2019, 01:59:17 PM
Post by: អរិយវង្ស on November 16, 2019, 05:28:43 PM
Post by: Dhammañāṇa on November 17, 2019, 05:43:55 PM
Aramika
Ein oder mehrer Beiträge wurden hier im Thema abgeschnitten und damit in neues Thema "[km/en] Medicine used by the Nuns of Maha Panna (http://forum.sangham.net/index.php?topic=9555.0)" eröffnet, dem angehäng.
One or more posts have been cut out of this topic here. A new topic, based on it, has been created as "[km/en] Medicine used by the Nuns of Maha Panna (http://forum.sangham.net/index.php?topic=9555.0)" or attached there.
Post by: Dhammañāṇa on November 21, 2019, 12:14:27 PM
A fermented sour salty medicine, how ever, known by elders to be used by monks of old times until now, consists of mentioned allowed forestfruits, sugar and salt. A brown oily substance, after fermentation, easy to keep and store.