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Topic Summary

Posted by: Dhammañāṇa
« on: February 11, 2019, 10:16:53 PM »

In addition to "rejecting a gift with strings": If monks would receive a gift, knowing the intention "so that the path press undertaking will go further and expand", they would fall into debts (willingly or not aware to got bond). Such would be a hindrence "palipot", being a hindence, not of benefit for the giver as well.

But if laypeople know the Buddhas encouragement:

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

As a king intent on battle
would hire a youth
in whom there are
   archery skills,
   persistence,
   & strength,
and not, on the basis of birth,
         a coward;
so, too, you should honor
a person of noble conduct, wise,
in whom are established
      composure
      & patience,
even though
his birth may be lowly.

Let donors build
pleasant hermitages
and there invite the learned to stay.
Let them make reservoirs
   in dry forests
and walking paths
   where it's rough.

Give even if only the donor side is purified, that would be of great merits. Not to speak if purified in both ways.

But since Dhamma is hard to "sell" if straight forward and real Dana is more then seldom in this world and not useable for trade undertakings, it runs more and more straight upward, where ever one might look.
Posted by: Dhammañāṇa
« on: February 11, 2019, 08:58:17 PM »

As and advice of the Buddha toward layman undertakings involving trade and use of the Gem's, yes, Bhante.

But in this regard two things are good to reflect:

First in regard of the monks: It could be theoretical (althought not easy, obivious living in not so proper dependency) that they actually did not encourage them, did not corrupt them. As for Bhikkhus it would be a fault if talking about faults of Bhikkhus to lay people if not agreed by the Sangha to do so.

Secound, in regard toward the lay people: As for Bhikkhus it would be a fault if speaking, informing about faults of lay people, even if right. Why? Because laypeople would fear to have disadvantages from the Sangha, if acting as judge, and that might cost popularity, aside of possible missuse and possible politics with it. The possibility to make merits by blaming what should be blamed, in regard of lay people has been not given to the Bhikkhus by the Buddha, possible not even out of compassion and to lead them in a better direction by such. Doing such as a novice one risks to be called "one who 'entwürdigt' a layman (true followers) assembling", which can be burdensome, althought if might be not the case in regard of intention.

So it's often risky to take side and approve a side. Reciting simply the Dhamma is not necessary taking side, at least not in regard of body and speech.

So it's always good to think about it if certain compassion is worthy to be sacrified and one is not forced to do some "harm" toward oneselve for acts of compassion.

How ever, since actually not after painting something black what might be white, here as well, my person is always happy, aside if able to receive critic as a compassionate help for bettering, if he is/was wrong in his observings made.
Posted by: Dhammarāgato
« on: February 11, 2019, 08:10:24 PM »

 _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

  Nicht sollt’ man sich überall beschäft’gen
   Sollt’ nicht anderer Söldling sein,
   Sollt' nicht in Abhängigkeit von anderen leben,
   Sollt’ nicht beginnen
      Händler von Dhamma zu sein.   

http://zugangzureinsicht.org/html/tipitaka/kn/ud/ud.6.02.than.html
* Johann : link bbc corrected
Posted by: Dhammañāṇa
« on: February 11, 2019, 05:21:36 PM »



Quote from: pathpress (committee of Bhikkhus/Samanera laypeople) via email
That is very hurtful to read from a monk. We laypeople can offer whatever we want. It is our merit.
Please do not write to us anymore.

Quote from: Johann
Upasaka, Upasika

If it would be the case that such is a solve laymans undertaking, if my person would even rebuke lay people to make donations, such would be indeed not proper and would require a correction and pardon (accepted at least or not)

So please let my person know when certain things visible currently and in the past, have been wrongly perceived: http://forum.sangham.net/index.php/topic,1086.msg17810.html#msg17810

To be clear about it, and to share an Anumodana if not just making exchanges but seeing the Dhamma:

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

As a king intent on battle
would hire a youth
in whom there are
   archery skills,
   persistence,
   & strength,
and not, on the basis of birth,
         a coward;
so, too, you should honor
a person of noble conduct, wise,
in whom are established
      composure
      & patience,
even though
his birth may be lowly.

Let donors build
pleasant hermitages
and there invite the learned to stay.
Let them make reservoirs
   in dry forests
and walking paths
   where it's rough

Quote from: Issattha Sutta: Archery Skills


It's of low or no merits to give for exchange, as a trade. It's of high merits to build Kutis and water tanks in remote areas having the Noble Sangha and their faithfull follower monks in mind.

PS: And " We laypeople can offer whatever we want. It is our merit." is right, while receiving something in exchange would be wrong for monks and to be rejected. Further you did not share your merits but encourage others to give Dana as a reward for teaching. Such is of much benefit, even of demerits if making a living on it.

It's not so easy to understand Dana for modern people, giving just for certain rewards.
It's not of benefit if making use of monks for maintaining ones wordily undertakings, trade them and make offerings dependend on material rewards and writtings are such as well.

Don't forgeth that equal always gather together, at least.

May all this be seen as a gift out of compassion and bring all of you a step further toward the Noble Domain.

metta & mudita
Samana Johann

Posted by: Dhammañāṇa
« on: February 11, 2019, 04:35:48 PM »

Another time: Dhamma for the four requisites, Dhamma-trade. Of course rebuking (pointing on sg 13 and "lifting others into a state of attainments to make a livelihood, even pc 4) directly, disrespecting Dhamma Vinaya, was deleted.

Quote from: https://pathpress.wordpress.com/2019/02/11/nyanavira-commemorative-kuti-an-appeal/
Hillside Hermitage, a small forest vihara, is located in the western foothills of the Knuckles mountain range of central Sri Lanka, in the vicinity of the small village of Bombarella. Established in 2014 by Bhikkhu Ninoslav Nyanamoli, a longtime associate and friend of Path Press (and the author of Meanings, a book of essays and letters on Dhamma published by Path Press Publications, the hermitage consists of a few small kutis – dwellings for bhikkhus – on a forested and rocky hillside above the scattered tea plantations and green valleys of the surrounding countryside. Life there is, by design, simple – even primitive – and though physically challenging it is entirely conducive to the cultivation of solitude and reflection as prescribed by the Buddha. As such the hermitage provides a setting for a life of renunciation, and the intimate contact with nature so supportive of the investigation of Dhamma in the most personal and direct way possible.

Four monks currently reside at Hillside, and as a place where Ven. Nyanavira’s approach to the Buddha’s Teaching is respected it has attracted the interest of other bhikkhus who wish to train and learn there.

Consequently, there is a need for the construction of a new kuti at the hermitage, and to further this end Path Press is pleased to coordinate support for this worthy project. We do so in commemoration of the Ven. Nyanavira Thera (on 6th January 2020 would be his 100th birthday), and in recognition of his importance to many people, both monastic and lay, in gaining useful access to the Buddha’s Teaching. And we further invite those who are appreciative of Ven. Nyanavira’s writings to participate in this effort as well, by making a donation.

Contributions can be made via this PayPal page or by Bank tranasfer (for the details please write to us), and any assistance offered will, of course, be greatly appreciated. (Approximately 1200 EUR is required, and 100 percent of donated funds will go to the hermitage for construction of of the kuti. When making a donation we ask that you please note in the donation form that the funds are to be used for this purpose.)

More information about Hillside Hermitage, its history and purpose, as well as essays on Dhamma and video teachings by Ven. Nyanamoli Thero, can be found here hillsidehermitage.org.

All the same with this "Dhamma-Dana"... that is not for the increase of faith for those without faith...

Monks are not worthy of gifts because they teach or give lectures but for keeping Vinaya, compassion, Sila, the effort to get free of greed, hatred and delusion, not to speak about having abounded certain or all fetters. A gift in exchange is of low merits and approving such improper ways of Dhamma trade even demerit. Even lower as "animal trade".

 
Posted by: Dhammañāṇa
« on: February 28, 2014, 09:37:28 AM »

Quote from: Johann via email
Subject:    Re: [Path Press] Please moderate: "Books for Free Distribution... An Invitation"
Date:    Fri, 28 Feb 2014 07:38:39 +0700
From:    Johann Brucker <johann...
To:    hiriko..


Dear Ven. Hiriko,

I am very happy to hear that. May you successful leave the house and practice the holy life in its full dimension. Don't let that matter disturb you if possible. You own practice has always priority. It's of most benefit for all. Sadhu!

metta and mudita
Johann


Quote from: Ven. Bhante Hiriko via email
On 2/27/2014 10:58 PM, Hiriko Bhikkhu wrote:
> Hello Johann,
> I will reply to you. However I am just about to go for thudong for 2 weeks. I hope it is OK I reply to you when I return.
> With best wishes,
> Bhikkhu Hiriko

Quote from: Johann via email
On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 7:47 PM, Johann Brucker <johann...

    Thanks a lot Bhante Hiriko for your replay,

    please don't understand it wrong. At least your are...

On this place a certain sutta came to my mind.

 :-*
Posted by: Dhammañāṇa
« on: February 27, 2014, 02:41:57 PM »

To carry out an exception that monks would be allowed to request donations not for their own benefit, without the invitation to declare it, would be asking for food (I guess also for the other requisites) if a fellow monk would be sick. This is of course an exception, but neither touches the issue here, nor touches requests for money and other things.

The undertaking how ever, does not respect the conditions when Bhikkhus are not allowed to teach, does not respect rules in regard of the danger of corruption, and at least does not represent the ways of the sages:

Quote from: Kasi Bharadvaja Sutta: To the Plowing Bharadvaja
What's been chanted over with verses
shouldn't be eaten by me.
That's not the nature, brahman,
of one who's seen rightly.
What's been chanted over with verses
Awakened Ones reject.
   That being their nature, brahman,
   this is their way of life.
Serve with other food & drink
a fully-perfected great seer,
   his fermentations    ended,
   his anxiety       stilled,
for that is the field
   for one looking for merit.

At least, if one is very attentive, he would see that a growth of generosity toward nibbana, lies within exactly this strict intention, it would bound people to repay their gratitude by their neighbors or even with there own transformation, does not close the circle of the eight persons and is the very engine of the Dhamma-Wheel. One-for-one Business and trade will always just increase the cemeteries.

That is what is meant if wise people say "don't sell out Dhamma", it does not mean that you should put a price on it, but let it be gained by means which are conductive to even grasp the basics.

Today Dhamma is taught on universities, respectless laypeople with the support of certain monks have developed huge industries around it, righteous practicing Bhikkhus get hardly support if they are not involved in Dhamma-Bussines, Generous lay-undertakings to contribute Dhamma as a gift are victims of Monk-Livelihood-and-Monastery-founding-untertakings. Not easy would a layperson have any intention to even visit a monk, some of them knowing the whole Tipitaka, not having approached a Bhikkhu yet.

It is really time to change ways and it is nonsense to run after corrupted ways of ordinary life. That requires a punch of faith as the big stream flows upward, but if not possible, he would not have said that it is possible.
Posted by: Dhammañāṇa
« on: February 27, 2014, 01:55:43 PM »

Quote from: Bhante Hiriko via Email
On 2/27/2014 1:25 PM, Hiriko Bhikkhu wrote:
> That was not our intention to do manipulate anything. As I said: PP does not have bank account, and no money at all - it cares that works are well presented. PPP has been established for that reason to care about finances (selling etc), so bhikkhus do not have to worry about anything because they have no power over PPP.
> I am sorry I cannot help you more. Also it is very hard to understand what you write. And I do not know how to explain to you that we have knowledge of Vinaya and we follow it with integrity. (Please reread Vinaya, that the difference (even) if bhikkhu asks for donations for an organization, not for personal benefit.)

Quote
On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 6:45 PM, Johann Brucker <johann.. wrote:

    Thanks a lot for your clarification, Ven. Bhante Hiriko...


Quote from: Johann via email
Subject:    Re: [Path Press] Please moderate: "Books for Free Distribution... An Invitation"
Date:    Thu, 27 Feb 2014 13:47:01 +0700
From:    Johann...
To:    hirik...


Thanks a lot Bhante Hiriko for your replay,

please don't understand it wrong. At least your are always your self responsible for your deeds and you adoption to Vinaya, and its one self how will benefit form it or not (except issues which are also Sangha-reputation realted).

I also would wonder it there is a place where monks are allowed to ask for donations for an organization (not to speak if this is even so that they are involved in it, not to speak about promoting Dhamma-sells). I would be more than happy to read such parts as they would not really fit to the Suttas. It might be that Bhikkhu Brahmali has introduced such in his undertakings and its is of course common in SEA since about 100-150 years, since people are no more willing to support the Sangha without teasers, but it would go straight against the Suttas if such is really mentioned in the Vinaya in this context.

Please if you are familiar with such allows, it would be great if you could share the source.

metta & mudita

Johann

Quote
On 2/27/2014 1:25 PM, Hiriko Bhikkhu wrote:
> That was not our intention to do manipulate anything...

I would be not comfortable for me, if I would not mention that Ven. Bhikkhu Hiriko carries his name with all honor and that I have deeply respect that he does not simply trow away the issue. Sadhu!

 :-*
Posted by: Dhammañāṇa
« on: February 27, 2014, 01:13:09 PM »

Quote from: About us - www.pathpresspublications.com
About us

Path Press Publications is the publishing division of Path Press: a non-profit entity, which handles legal matters and holds the copyrights of all Ven. Ñāṇavīra Thera’s writings together with writings of Ven. Bodhesako and Sister Vajirā. It was founded in Sri Lanka in 1987 by Ven. Bodhesako. Path Press was originally recognized as publisher of Clearing the Path but later became an entity with a small group of 5 bhikkhus and 3 layman (upāsakas) who are aspiring to make the late Ven. Ñāṇavīra Thera’s teachings more available for those who are interested.

The principal aim of Path Press Publications is to make available in print the writings of the late Ven. Ñāṇavīra Thera which, though of extraordinary quality and depth, do not—for different reasons—attract any of the established Budddhist publishers. It is presented with a deep sense of gratitude by individuals whose lives were significantly affected by an encounter with these writings, in the hope that others, too, might appreciate the right-view guidance which is offered therein. It cannot be expected that this material, which poses a clear challenge to the mainstream version of Buddhism, will gain any great popularity among the majority of Buddhists—Eastern or Western—but at least it can suggest an alternative approach to the Buddha’s original Teaching, and perhaps serve as a useful eye-opener for those seeking an understanding of its more fundamental principles. It can also communicate the attitude of earnestness towards Dhamma practice, which is regarded not merely as a matter of choice but rather an existential necessity. For without this basic attitude, the practice of Buddhist meditation will remain in the worldly sphere and will never be able to bear the fruits of noble insight leading to liberation from the ‘world’.

Its a Dhamma-Shopping place with a "please donate (so that we can sell)" section at least, that is how it appears.

While pathpress appearance as the promoting page, hinting to each new Dhamma available with wordily means. (like some Organisations give publishing awards while the reward receiver is contributing to the reward giver -  that is usually called partisanship/cronyism, wish is a construct that will break down after a short time).
Not different to undertakings like all other Buddhist printing houses, may they be labeled as "by monks" or "by laypeople".

That is not the way people should come to Dhamma and how it should be contributed. Dhamma is easily poison for people who don't like to change to right view and put gratitude and generosity at the first place. They will never feel gratitude to the Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha, disrespect them, put worldly regulations higher as Dhamma-Vinaya, but simply celebrate their normal ways dealers, and slaves, lose and gains.

It would be good to lay things open and use obstacle to build a stairway upwards.

 :-*
Posted by: Dhammañāṇa
« on: February 27, 2014, 12:49:05 PM »

Quote from: Ven. Bhante Hiriko via email
On 2/27/2014 11:28 AM, Hiriko Bhikkhu wrote:
> Hello Johann,
> The Path Press Committee has 4 members who are laymen and take for the financial part. Moreover, Path Press Publications is not the same as Path Press, and it has only one member who is a layman, it is Path Press Publications that has money, not Path Press. And the Invitation was written by a layman.
> All bhikkhus here follow Vinaya strictly, so you do not need to worry about that.

> Thanks anyway.
> Best wishes,
> Bhikkhu Hiriko
> ___________________________________________________
> Path Press www.pathpress.org | Nanavira Thera www.nanavira.org


Quote from: Johann via email
Subject:    Re: [Path Press] Please moderate: "Books for Free Distribution... An Invitation"
Date:    Thu, 27 Feb 2014 12:45:14 +0700
From:    Johann ..
To:    hiriko...


Thanks a lot for your clarification, Ven. Bhante Hiriko and for your compassion to rebuke wrong doings, if they are reasons and for your willingness to clarify things, so that there are no doubts and and anchors to loos faith.
If one looks for "About", you may find mentioned five Bhikkhus in line before some layman, if you observe the adds and trading, you also might find that Bhikkhus are active exclusively.

"Path Press Publications is the publishing division of Path Press" so what do you like to tell here? That is like the hypocrisy privatization politic that governments are using to do, or people who like to go around tax when they are founding a trust. Taking no money and not using money means that you abstain from manipulating samsara and from holding power. It is really no problem to never touch money as a King or businessman.

I hope you understand that the critic does not come out of no reason and is really not meant bad, totally the opposite. People with ill-will would not engage risking there own look. Other people would not even tell you, as they don't like to reduce there footholds to certain gains.

It might be good if you present this clearly and it would be good if you don't make use of censuring, that is obliviously not made by laypeople.

With deep respect and the wish that you may apologize if I did not investigate right and the underlying critic has no anchor at all.

I will forward your clarification and my request for pardon, if it was my mistake. Please don't hesitate to make such rebukes, its not only beneficial for my self. Please understand that I will always worry, as the opposite would be not the proper approach and devotion. And there is no more beautiful to come in touch with Bhikkhus who are able to say straight when asked "Are you clean", "Yes". Much mudita! And again respect that you investigate and deal with rebukes, that is something less people are able and willing today.

Since you might worry to make if public your self, I allowed to make a topic, that those who are willing and open can gain and others who have fear to lose reputation when criticized: "Books for Free Distribution… An Invitation "non-profil" livelihood [Path press] "

You are of course always invited not only to make use of all our possibilities but also always invited to clarify things and also to point out critics and mistakes (non-censured and non-delete is granted as long as I am a little in charge)

metta and much mudita

Johann


 :-*
Posted by: Dhammañāṇa
« on: February 27, 2014, 12:00:31 PM »

We had this topic wrapped in decent hints already here, uncomfortable its like to talk with wilily children who just have their target of desire in there focus, not open for meek winks and we have an already polluted environment by "Robin Hoods": The Aṭṭhakavagga – Pali, with English Translation

We had email communication and we had a lot of censured critic already. This young generation is simply lost, there is no place where you don't find such undertakings and Dhamma-Sales for a livelihood, followed by moaning and lamenting, alternating with rationalization.

 
Quote from: The Therapeutic Qualities of Dhamma
“The Dhamma of these latter-day sages will be a new, modern Dhamma whose attainment requires no troublesome investigations. All that’s required to attain magga and phala is a chorus of moaning and groaning, a method suited to an age when people prefer to seek righteous results from unrighteous causes – a pernicious attitude consuming the whole world today. Before long there won’t be enough room on the planet to hold all these modern-day sages. I myself have an old-fashioned mentality. I trust what the Lord Buddha taught and dare not take any shortcuts. I am afraid that, as soon as I put a foot forward, I would fall flat on my face – and die there in disgrace. That would be immensely heartbreaking for me.”

Ajahn Mun

 :-*
Posted by: Dhammañāṇa
« on: February 27, 2014, 11:22:36 AM »

Quote from: pathpress.wordpress.com
Books for Free Distribution… An Invitation
Posted: February 26, 2014 by pathpress in News   
0

In order to make available books published by Path Press Publications to people who, though interested in their contents, do not have the opportunity to access them, Path Press Publications has begun a project of free distribution of its titles to a small number of monasteries, libraries and individuals (monastics who, of necessity, haven’t the means to purchase them). The expectation is that in doing so these books are likely to find readers who will both appreciate their value, and benefit, perhaps profoundly, from an encounter with them.

Funds, however, in support of this project are limited. As those familiar with them are aware, these books are not intended for the casual reader, and cannot really be considered ‘commercially viable’ in the conventional sense. Hence their sales do not generate significant revenue—all of which is used entirely for the printing of more books as well as in the preparation of new titles. (Path Press Publications is a strictly nonprofit enterprise, administered through the efforts of volunteers, with no financial compensation paid to any of its officers or associates.)

Because of these financial constraints funding of this important project must rely on the support of interested donors, and Path Press invites those who appreciate the usefulness of these books, and are inclined to do so, to contribute at whatever level is comfortable. Simply add a note when offering a donation requesting that the sum be used to sponsor the free distribution of books. Your help will be gratefully received, and every effort will be made to ensure that books are sent where they are most likely to be put to good use.

If you would like to make donation, please click here: http://www.pathpresspublications.com/paypal/donate.php

Since pathpress has not only one time censured critical Posts, it think that it is a need to make them public here as well.

Quote from: Johann commented on path press
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
February 27, 2014 at 4:19 am   

Dear Path Press Committee,

I know such is mostly not welcome, but you should not contribute Dhamma via trade and you should not request in addition donations, since you are not laypeople.
Worldly “nonprofit” is still business in dimensions of the Dhamma and it is not proper for a Bhikkhu to do such, nor is it proper to deal with heritage.

Even such has already tradition, that is not the way Dhamma gets spread in the right way. That is at least all a matter of failures which lead always to Saṅghādisesa 13 in one or another way. It’s sad enough that laypeople have no respect and make business and a livelihood with Dhamma, how will you ever justify that such is not ok.

To give the notion “there might be people who can not purchase them” should be merely an effort that your realize that gaining Dhamma is not a inherent right, nor is it a thing you can buy, not is it a matter of exclusively past merits, but a needed tendency in direction of right view.

Rationalization (making ecuses) has no place in Dhamma practicing.

You opposite basic right view with your suggestions and way to people in a big scale. You should know best from your honored teacher, what might be happen if people go into the higher eightfold path but still use rationalizations. They are very harmful not only for one self.

Buddhas teachings have been straight forward in this regard, if there are no basics, like generosity and gratitude, there is no place to teach the eightfold path, not to speak that a Bhikkhus is even not allowed to do so.

You primary task is a different, there are no higher aims.

I wish you much effort in your good deeds and I wish you that your good deeds are always supported.

May there be people who are willing to spread your punna work and may they be also allowed and invited to do it.

metta & mudita