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1
* Johann "No, no, no... 'We' are not here to produce a certain product or to make a trade, and we are not not here because things are burdensome. 'We' are still here to gives those with eyes possibilities to make use of the grate field of merits and rather to leave just pictures and stories of path suppliers behind, 'we' give ways to engage and, with what ever remainder, 'we' serve out of garitude, making use of given till there is really no more way to make use of the most tiny gift, yet look at this wealth here as field to serve the juwels. What are you scared for in giving it up? Given? Or do you might seek for just gain to give or just holding the Uposatha of the wolf ? Others might have objectives in the world, for the worlds sake and therefore accept to harm it. It's not a pleasure for worthy and wise to make or being required to make use of things not proper gained, not to say actually impossible if becoming aware.
Let the traders trade, the Robin Hoods robbery, the fools get fooler and the wealth enjoy their heritage away. Keep possibilities for many possible visible and accessable, path vanish only if no one walk on them, sometimes, back and forth might be also required, but all on the path, wether already beyound or not."

Just on to start anew. Lets see first a little of what might work with the given well

My person thinks to follow the structure "developed" in the Khmer-tipitaka section, renaming the CSCD files accordingly, put the files in equal directories (categories), meaning just one for all languages and scripts and make use of a language, script, author prefix.

_pikm for Pali in Khmer script
_en_uppa for English by Uppalavana

Once the motherfiles in Pali are good complete and with proper anchors, they can then be used for other languages.

The xml-tags as well as anchor structur are done as here for a sample, with simple and manual replacements without regex and manual edits, best done properbly by category after category. Another time my person started by AN01

(rebuild footer and info part not sure for now, also not in regard of making use of blocks - which would incl. the possibility of php as well and not sure if smart now as a new release of Tiny-portal is out, if struggling much with layout, so my person will propable "just" prepare the htmls and load them up in a admin section for later use.)

Code: "sut.an.01.v15_pila.html" [Select]
<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="http://sangham.net/tipitaka-latn_sangham.css"></a>

<p class="chapter" id="s268-295" name="s268-295" text="Anchor=s268-295">15. Aṭṭhānapāḷi</p>

<p class="subhead" id="s268-277" name="s268-277" text="Anchor=s268-277">1. Paṭhamavaggo</p>

<p class="bodytext" id="para268"><span class="paranum">268</span><span class="dot">.</span> ‘‘Aṭṭhānametaṃ <a id="V1.0038"></a>, bhikkhave, anavakāso yaṃ diṭṭhisampanno puggalo kañci <span class="note">kiñci (ka.)</span> saṅkhāraṃ niccato upagaccheyya. Netaṃ ṭhānaṃ vijjati. Ṭhānañca kho etaṃ, bhikkhave, vijjati <a id="P1.0027"></a> yaṃ puthujjano kañci saṅkhāraṃ niccato upagaccheyya. Ṭhānametaṃ vijjatī’’ti.</p>

<p class="bodytext" id="para269"><span class="paranum">269</span><span class="dot">.</span> ‘‘Aṭṭhānametaṃ, bhikkhave, anavakāso yaṃ diṭṭhisampanno puggalo kañci saṅkhāraṃ sukhato upagaccheyya. Netaṃ ṭhānaṃ vijjati. Ṭhānañca kho etaṃ, bhikkhave, vijjati yaṃ puthujjano kañci saṅkhāraṃ sukhato upagaccheyya. Ṭhānametaṃ vijjatī’’ti.</p>

<p class="bodytext" id="para270"><span class="paranum">270</span><span class="dot">.</span> ‘‘Aṭṭhānametaṃ, bhikkhave, anavakāso yaṃ diṭṭhisampanno puggalo <a id="T1.0035"></a> kañci dhammaṃ attato upagaccheyya. Netaṃ ṭhānaṃ vijjati. Ṭhānañca kho etaṃ, bhikkhave, vijjati yaṃ puthujjano kañci dhammaṃ attato upagaccheyya. Ṭhānametaṃ vijjatī’’ti.</p>

<p class="bodytext" id="para271"><span class="paranum">271</span><span class="dot">.</span> ‘‘Aṭṭhānametaṃ, bhikkhave, anavakāso yaṃ diṭṭhisampanno puggalo mātaraṃ jīvitā voropeyya. Netaṃ ṭhānaṃ vijjati. Ṭhānañca kho, bhikkhave, vijjati yaṃ puthujjano mātaraṃ jīvitā voropeyya. Ṭhānametaṃ vijjatī’’ti.</p>

<p class="bodytext" id="para272"><span class="paranum">272</span><span class="dot">.</span> ‘‘Aṭṭhānametaṃ <a id="M1.0029"></a>, bhikkhave, anavakāso yaṃ diṭṭhisampanno puggalo pitaraṃ jīvitā voropeyya. Netaṃ ṭhānaṃ vijjati. Ṭhānañca kho etaṃ, bhikkhave, vijjati yaṃ puthujjano pitaraṃ jīvitā voropeyya. Ṭhānametaṃ vijjatī’’ti.</p>

<p class="bodytext" id="para273"><span class="paranum">273</span><span class="dot">.</span> ‘‘Aṭṭhānametaṃ <a id="V1.0039"></a>, bhikkhave, anavakāso yaṃ diṭṭhisampanno puggalo arahantaṃ jīvitā voropeyya. Netaṃ ṭhānaṃ vijjati. Ṭhānañca kho etaṃ, bhikkhave, vijjati yaṃ puthujjano arahantaṃ jīvitā voropeyya. Ṭhānametaṃ vijjatī’’ti.</p>

<p class="bodytext" id="para274"><span class="paranum">274</span><span class="dot">.</span> ‘‘Aṭṭhānametaṃ, bhikkhave, anavakāso yaṃ diṭṭhisampanno puggalo tathāgatassa paduṭṭhacitto lohitaṃ uppādeyya. Netaṃ ṭhānaṃ vijjati. Ṭhānañca kho etaṃ, bhikkhave, vijjati yaṃ puthujjano tathāgatassa paduṭṭhacitto lohitaṃ uppādeyya. Ṭhānametaṃ vijjatī’’ti.</p>

<p class="bodytext" id="para275"><span class="paranum">275</span><span class="dot">.</span> ‘‘Aṭṭhānametaṃ <a id="T1.0036"></a>, bhikkhave, anavakāso yaṃ diṭṭhisampanno puggalo saṅghaṃ bhindeyya. Netaṃ ṭhānaṃ vijjati. Ṭhānañca kho etaṃ, bhikkhave, vijjati yaṃ puthujjano saṅghaṃ bhindeyya. Ṭhānametaṃ vijjatī’’ti.</p>

<p class="bodytext" id="para276"><span class="paranum">276</span><span class="dot">.</span> ‘‘Aṭṭhānametaṃ, bhikkhave, anavakāso yaṃ diṭṭhisampanno puggalo aññaṃ satthāraṃ uddiseyya. Netaṃ ṭhānaṃ vijjati. Ṭhānañca kho etaṃ, bhikkhave, vijjati yaṃ puthujjano aññaṃ satthāraṃ uddiseyya. Ṭhānametaṃ vijjatī’’ti.</p>

<p class="bodytext" id="para277"><span class="paranum">277</span><span class="dot">.</span> ‘‘Aṭṭhānametaṃ, bhikkhave, anavakāso yaṃ ekissā lokadhātuyā dve arahanto sammāsambuddhā apubbaṃ acarimaṃ <a id="P1.0028"></a> uppajjeyyuṃ. Netaṃ ṭhānaṃ vijjati. Ṭhānañca kho etaṃ, bhikkhave, vijjati yaṃ ekissā lokadhātuyā ekova arahaṃ sammāsambuddho uppajjeyya. Ṭhānametaṃ vijjatī’’ti.</p>

<p class="centre">Vaggo paṭhamo.</p>

<p class="subhead" id="s278-286" name="s278-286" text="Anchor=s278-286">2. Dutiyavaggo</p>

<p class="bodytext" id="para278"><span class="paranum">278</span><span class="dot">.</span> ‘‘Aṭṭhānametaṃ <a id="V1.0040"></a>, bhikkhave, anavakāso yaṃ ekissā lokadhātuyā dve rājāno cakkavattī apubbaṃ acarimaṃ uppajjeyyuṃ. Netaṃ ṭhānaṃ vijjati <a id="M1.0030"></a>. Ṭhānañca kho etaṃ, bhikkhave, vijjati yaṃ ekissā lokadhātuyā eko rājā cakkavattī uppajjeyya. Ṭhānametaṃ vijjatī’’ti.</p>

<p class="bodytext" id="para279"><span class="paranum">279</span><span class="dot">.</span> ‘‘Aṭṭhānametaṃ, bhikkhave, anavakāso yaṃ itthī arahaṃ assa sammāsambuddho. Netaṃ ṭhānaṃ vijjati. Ṭhānañca kho, etaṃ, bhikkhave, vijjati yaṃ puriso arahaṃ assa sammāsambuddho. Ṭhānametaṃ vijjatī’’ti.</p>

<p class="bodytext" id="para280"><span class="paranum">280</span><span class="dot">.</span> ‘‘Aṭṭhānametaṃ <a id="T1.0037"></a>, bhikkhave, anavakāso yaṃ itthī rājā assa cakkavattī. Netaṃ ṭhānaṃ vijjati. Ṭhānañca kho etaṃ, bhikkhave, vijjati yaṃ puriso rājā assa cakkavattī. Ṭhānametaṃ vijjatī’’ti.</p>

<p class="bodytext" id="para281-283"><span class="paranum">281-283</span><span class="dot">.</span> ‘‘Aṭṭhānametaṃ, bhikkhave, anavakāso yaṃ itthī sakkattaṃ kāreyya…pe… mārattaṃ kāreyya…pe… brahmattaṃ kāreyya. Netaṃ ṭhānaṃ vijjati. Ṭhānañca kho etaṃ, bhikkhave, vijjati yaṃ puriso sakkattaṃ kāreyya…pe… mārattaṃ kāreyya…pe… brahmattaṃ kāreyya. Ṭhānametaṃ vijjatī’’ti.</p>

<p class="bodytext" id="para284"><span class="paranum">284</span><span class="dot">.</span> ‘‘Aṭṭhānametaṃ, bhikkhave, anavakāso yaṃ kāyaduccaritassa iṭṭho kanto manāpo vipāko nibbatteyya. Netaṃ ṭhānaṃ vijjati. Ṭhānañca kho etaṃ, bhikkhave, vijjati yaṃ kāyaduccaritassa aniṭṭho akanto amanāpo vipāko nibbatteyya. Ṭhānametaṃ vijjatī’’ti.</p>

<p class="bodytext" id="para285-286"><span class="paranum">285-286</span><span class="dot">.</span> ‘‘Aṭṭhānametaṃ, bhikkhave, anavakāso yaṃ vacīduccaritassa…pe… yaṃ manoduccaritassa iṭṭho kanto manāpo vipāko nibbatteyya. Netaṃ ṭhānaṃ vijjati. Ṭhānañca kho etaṃ, bhikkhave, vijjati yaṃ manoduccaritassa aniṭṭho akanto amanāpo vipāko nibbatteyya. Ṭhānametaṃ vijjatī’’ti.</p>

<p class="centre">Vaggo dutiyo.</p>

<p class="subhead" id="s287-295" name="s287-295" text="Anchor=s287-295">3. Tatiyavaggo</p>

<p class="bodytext" id="para287"><span class="paranum">287</span><span class="dot">.</span> ‘‘Aṭṭhānametaṃ <a id="V1.0041"></a>, bhikkhave, anavakāso yaṃ kāyasucaritassa aniṭṭho akanto amanāpo vipāko nibbatteyya. Netaṃ ṭhānaṃ vijjati. Ṭhānañca <a id="T1.0038"></a><a id="M1.0031"></a> kho etaṃ, bhikkhave, vijjati yaṃ kāyasucaritassa iṭṭho kanto manāpo vipāko nibbatteyya. Ṭhānametaṃ vijjatī’’ti.</p>

<p class="bodytext" id="para288-289"><span class="paranum">288-289</span><span class="dot">.</span> ‘‘Aṭṭhānametaṃ <a id="P1.0029"></a>, bhikkhave, anavakāso yaṃ vacīsucaritassa…pe… manosucaritassa aniṭṭho akanto amanāpo vipāko nibbatteyya. Netaṃ ṭhānaṃ vijjati. Ṭhānañca kho etaṃ, bhikkhave, vijjati yaṃ manosucaritassa iṭṭho kanto manāpo vipāko nibbatteyya. Ṭhānametaṃ vijjatī’’ti.</p>

<p class="bodytext" id="para290"><span class="paranum">290</span><span class="dot">.</span> ‘‘Aṭṭhānametaṃ, bhikkhave, anavakāso yaṃ kāyaduccaritasamaṅgī tannidānā tappaccayā kāyassa bhedā paraṃ maraṇā sugatiṃ saggaṃ lokaṃ upapajjeyya. Netaṃ ṭhānaṃ vijjati. Ṭhānañca kho etaṃ, bhikkhave, vijjati yaṃ kāyaduccaritasamaṅgī tannidānā tappaccayā kāyassa bhedā paraṃ maraṇā apāyaṃ duggatiṃ vinipātaṃ nirayaṃ upapajjeyya. Ṭhānametaṃ vijjatī’’ti.</p>

<p class="bodytext" id="para291-292"><span class="paranum">291-292</span><span class="dot">.</span> ‘‘Aṭṭhānametaṃ, bhikkhave, anavakāso yaṃ vacīduccaritasamaṅgī…pe… yaṃ manoduccaritasamaṅgī tannidānā tappaccayā kāyassa bhedā paraṃ maraṇā sugatiṃ saggaṃ lokaṃ upapajjeyya. Netaṃ ṭhānaṃ vijjati. Ṭhānañca kho etaṃ, bhikkhave, vijjati yaṃ manoduccaritasamaṅgī tannidānā tappaccayā kāyassa bhedā paraṃ maraṇā apāyaṃ duggatiṃ vinipātaṃ nirayaṃ upapajjeyya. Ṭhānametaṃ vijjatī’’ti <a id="T1.0039"></a>.</p>

<p class="bodytext" id="para293"><span class="paranum">293</span><span class="dot">.</span> ‘‘Aṭṭhānametaṃ, bhikkhave, anavakāso yaṃ kāyasucaritasamaṅgī tannidānā tappaccayā kāyassa bhedā paraṃ maraṇā apāyaṃ duggatiṃ vinipātaṃ nirayaṃ upapajjeyya. Netaṃ ṭhānaṃ vijjati. Ṭhānañca kho etaṃ, bhikkhave, vijjati yaṃ kāyasucaritasamaṅgī tannidānā tappaccayā <a id="V1.0042"></a> kāyassa bhedā paraṃ maraṇā sugatiṃ saggaṃ lokaṃ upapajjeyya. Ṭhānametaṃ vijjatī’’ti.</p>

<p class="bodytext" id="para294-295"><span class="paranum">294-295</span><span class="dot">.</span> ‘‘Aṭṭhānametaṃ, bhikkhave, anavakāso yaṃ vacīsucaritasamaṅgī…pe… yaṃ manosucaritasamaṅgī tannidānā tappaccayā kāyassa bhedā paraṃ maraṇā apāyaṃ duggatiṃ vinipātaṃ nirayaṃ upapajjeyya. Netaṃ ṭhānaṃ vijjati. Ṭhānañca kho etaṃ, bhikkhave, vijjati yaṃ <a id="P1.0030"></a> manosucaritasamaṅgī tannidānā tappaccayā kāyassa bhedā paraṃ maraṇā sugatiṃ saggaṃ lokaṃ upapajjeyya. Ṭhānametaṃ vijjatī’’ti.</p>

<p class="centre">Vaggo tatiyo.</p>

<p class="centre">Aṭṭhānapāḷi pannarasamo.</p>


2
It's now again the time of burning, the usual way farmers and employers expand their business, by taking, killing, chase away and taking land for own use.

It's the most ineffective and harmful way, burning away the food and energy as well. People hardly understand if certain usual ways are the causes of results. There is no way to teach a better, just a ruler a feared authority is able to make not so smart not even harden their merely lost existence.

Don't think that all this is far away from you and you have nothing to do with it. "Poor" countries fires are not without nurishing from the "rich", it's just more comfortable to let wars be fought somewhere else, using others to take on the battles for comfortable livingrooms and sensual joy.

Only when becoming real poor, when suffering arises, faith, if given, can raise with longer lasting success.

Never there was a larger "unseen" and ignored war going on in this world then in modern days. Because people draw their benefits from it, are not willing to renounce sensuality, wars are leaded in this world.

Hrad is it to find a real refuge, now it still is avaliable in this world.

Run to the hills ... but they also burn already.

Let's see - yesterday the near forest in the north burned, stopped as returned - if the fires will enter the near area this year.

The Eight between days, this time, is the time where many non-humans and Devas seek refuge at the last islands in SoEAsia, also at the heart here while the land is burning to expand marked and production.

Be virtuous and encourage to it at first place, desire after trade and giving, gain enlarges only the cemetery fields, killing field of community desire and what ever kind of social nationalism. "Perfect virtue" requires homelessness, abounding all kinds of self-identification, yet, it is nevertheless conductive to take ones virtue as ones joy or nurishment to go on on ones walk-about and do not starve in the middle of a desert. Make good use of nourishing from your offsprings, merits, and don't think that your bed might not already burn .

Pictures in the remaining forests of Naplam disasters next to people just burning land, with a tiny wink on kamma, many of such reminders might help, maybe also a law that war victims must be placed on non-stable food and tickets of enjoyment products rather then of lung cancer on tobacco.
3

If really, yes. Someone dwelling heedful, meaning aside of really necessary (within right livelyhood: e.g. one living on given) doing Jhana has no need and duty toward giving outwardly. One doing not the duties of an almreceiver needs to do Dana, in what ever way, to fall not strong into debts and lose all merits (means to gain joy with existences). That is the reason why often monks are very "social" and generous  ^-^, becoming step by step the slaves of their supporter... if not carefull. Some are simply not able yet to train in higher virtue, concentration and insight, and need to do a lot of Dana.
To answer in regard of lay people generally: Althought it is broadly understood so that it might be possible to practice without Dana as yet not on the highest livelihood, it's total impossible. Even 98%of monks are not really able to do without generosity, since often enough receive or take more willingly as needed. May it by accumulation of knowledge by not perfect means, for example, they need to share and teach their wealth in spiritual materials. So as long as there is something not needed carried, one needs to share to be able to carry it on.

That's a really importand and grave misunderstood matter, or better a dangerous zone of a lot of demerits and waste away of old. It's mostly justifyied by "there is no worthy" or even "I am actually more worthy, giving would be demeritiouse".

So the intention to donate counterbalance the tendency to cling which is created by volition and delight of consume. If one is always heedful, there is nothing to consume (unwise attention), thus no defilement will ever arise. Isn't this by itself full awakening?

It can and do go that far and that's why one should try and observe and not again and again search for security before walking about. Once there is a vision and doubt is abound, go for it. It's not that far away, Nyom Danilo . Do not consider fruits one convition in the path, and the path is that of Noble ones, the talk here is not how to find the path, standing direct before it.
Having done the job to come till here is seldom, so don't wait for another occation of arising.

Not sure if this "soft" places rebuke was seen. My person saw that Nyom placed wise questions, mature questions, an thought to warn him not to fall into internets usual respectless ways, asking the crowd and demanding or hoping that a wise burdens himself by giving the requested: in sort, its not of good conduct to ask not direct but others while the origin is even in reach or present. That's disrespectful, yet sadly usual everywhere on internet. It's ok to ask into the group of equal, to find common opinion but if seeking seriouse advice, one should proper approach.

Wise would really not easy enter the normal zones on internet and actually, if thinking on rules even Bhikkhus would be bound, nearly impossible to ever meet wise ones. So inregard of: "may Danilo have most ease to access other worlds of real benefit", it was said, assuming that he understands and regards the "sharp" advice.

The way Danilo does here and now, is actually good, which point again to a circumstances that his nature is actually of better kind but by to much association with improper usuals adopted to "survive" in that kind of enviroment.

Atma (my person) guesses that Danilo appreciates advices even if very direct, of what is my persons kind (...of generosity and less care of win or lose personally in this regard) to bring it also into the topic of the further questions here.

May Nyom Danilo have enough patient and "forgiviness" with especially language and ways, so that he might be able to receive and possible dig further.

My person ends will end here for now, giving space for prove and reflections.

Anumodana

I will surely take the advice in consideration.  _/\_
But, I thought it was better to post the question in BSE because the number of accesses there is much higher than sangham.net, thus much more people would benefit reading the answers (especially regarding such topic like generosity, virtue and make merits which is neglected in the west as Ven. Johann already mentioned many times).

 _/\_

One is given and welcome to share everything either out of compassion or having still duties in regard of uphoold relations but it's not suggested to use it for trade and exchange. How ever it may promote ones or others release and cause right gained joy. My person walks very often on the edge to make the proper times (object) of giving understood and how to not become a slave of ones attachments, holding on, which has no benefit for anybody. At least it's hurtful for a prisoner to get told about outside when merely not really able to escape. Beings have to work out their liberality by them selves and that is why it's only fruitful if Respect, Confidence and Patient are present. As for one seeking joy in generosity he might learn soon that's not so easy to find occasion to do. Seek always after those in front first and fullfil the duties on the track toward those left, right and behind to have a pleasant walk all the time, in proper amount, no need to sacrify the gain of release since there is no higher object be found then this to justify it.

Become firm and real liberal yourself, your radiance will call after those able to see and with certain upanissaya to your person and way. No need and benefit of making debts to stay bound in fear of the unbound, Nyom Danilo.

Just saw:

by the way, what is "perfect virtue"?

 _/\_


Maybe good to dedicate a new tread for it and simply try to right here and now to see.

My person will end here and may be for a while or some hours absent, of course even not return, to make his quest for alms or just give possibilities here.

Does not mean to "relax" meanwhile but hold on skillful states while maybe lesser entertained, Nyom Danilo.

* Johann btw. , good and proper if giving the gift of showing face , of course no demand. There are so many small things oft regarded as not so importand but actually very gross things in training and see perfect virtue. It goes right to Vipassana, just that "stuff". Not that easy, the considered small stuff. Much joy out of it, now being somehow in the cave of the lions who are after your defilements and "desire" realy much, much more they could if just standing behind the walls and only watch and ponder.
4
by the way, what is "perfect virtue"?

 _/\_
5

If really, yes. Someone dwelling heedful, meaning aside of really necessary (within right livelyhood: e.g. one living on given) doing Jhana has no need and duty toward giving outwardly. One doing not the duties of an almreceiver needs to do Dana, in what ever way, to fall not strong into debts and lose all merits (means to gain joy with existences). That is the reason why often monks are very "social" and generous  ^-^, becoming step by step the slaves of their supporter... if not carefull. Some are simply not able yet to train in higher virtue, concentration and insight, and need to do a lot of Dana.
To answer in regard of lay people generally: Althought it is broadly understood so that it might be possible to practice without Dana as yet not on the highest livelihood, it's total impossible. Even 98%of monks are not really able to do without generosity, since often enough receive or take more willingly as needed. May it by accumulation of knowledge by not perfect means, for example, they need to share and teach their wealth in spiritual materials. So as long as there is something not needed carried, one needs to share to be able to carry it on.

That's a really importand and grave misunderstood matter, or better a dangerous zone of a lot of demerits and waste away of old. It's mostly justifyied by "there is no worthy" or even "I am actually more worthy, giving would be demeritiouse".

So the intention to donate counterbalance the tendency to cling which is created by volition and delight of consume. If one is always heedful, there is nothing to consume (unwise attention), thus no defilement will ever arise. Isn't this by itself full awakening?


Not sure if this "soft" places rebuke was seen. My person saw that Nyom placed wise questions, mature questions, an thought to warn him not to fall into internets usual respectless ways, asking the crowd and demanding or hoping that a wise burdens himself by giving the requested: in sort, its not of good conduct to ask not direct but others while the origin is even in reach or present. That's disrespectful, yet sadly usual everywhere on internet. It's ok to ask into the group of equal, to find common opinion but if seeking seriouse advice, one should proper approach.

Wise would really not easy enter the normal zones on internet and actually, if thinking on rules even Bhikkhus would be bound, nearly impossible to ever meet wise ones. So inregard of: "may Danilo have most ease to access other worlds of real benefit", it was said, assuming that he understands and regards the "sharp" advice.

The way Danilo does here and now, is actually good, which point again to a circumstances that his nature is actually of better kind but by to much association with improper usuals adopted to "survive" in that kind of enviroment.

Atma (my person) guesses that Danilo appreciates advices even if very direct, of what is my persons kind (...of generosity and less care of win or lose personally in this regard) to bring it also into the topic of the further questions here.

May Nyom Danilo have enough patient and "forgiviness" with especially language and ways, so that he might be able to receive and possible dig further.

My person ends will end here for now, giving space for prove and reflections.

Anumodana

I will surely take the advice in consideration.  _/\_
But, I thought it was better to post the question in BSE because the number of accesses there is much higher than sangham.net, thus much more people would benefit reading the answers (especially regarding such topic like generosity, virtue and make merits which is neglected in the west as Ven. Johann already mentioned many times).

 _/\_
6
Sadhu for asking further to possible remove doubt and gain ease, Nyom Danilo .

Ven. Johann, I have read your answer and the thread in freesangha.com mentioned in it. A few doubts pop up.

Quote from: Samana Johann in BSE
worthy to note that the treasure of real generosity is only gained by a person of integrity, e.g. comes after perfection of silas
Quote from: francis in freesangha.com
Giving in this unencumbered way loosens the grip of greed and helps to develop non-attachment. Such giving also develops virtue and leads naturally to the next perfection, morality (sila).’
Quote from: Samana Johann in freesangha.com
Perfect, not different, Fancis

These statements seems to contradict each other. Is really important a strict order of what perfection comes first (sila before dana or dana before sila ?) or the order is merely a recommendation?

The condratiction lies in the bad pointed out view. One thing is the usual training the other results.
Althought the training usually is suggested by Dāna » Sīla » ... the actually perfection of generosity is only firm one the stream is gained. Gaining the Stream means to have completed the virture - section and an attribute of all eight Noble persons is the lack of maccharīa, stinginess , including ingratitude (the root of stinginess). Yet at the "same" time the abounding of the fetter of stinginess is required to possible gain jhana, paths or fruits. When the Buddha makes accounts on treasures , generosity cames always after virtue, meaning a person not having gained "perfect" virtue is not really generous but bears in certain amount a certain trade/exchance in mind when giving. This way of mentioning can also be seen in Devatanussati , where also sila is mentioned before dana.
If remembering the supra mundane depending origin , sometimes the starter on the chain is confidence, sometime virtue, meaning all "freedom of remorse. Today many wonder how it was possible that for example a person, having gained confidence and only payed respect at its perfection, or giving flowers, had gained path. It all comes to the point where the Aggregates are abound, nothing is hold on as own, at this stage of mind, having proper attention, path and fruit can be gained.
So it's actually impossible to have "perfect" virtue but still stingy and vizi versa. Both, generosity and virtue, are trained outwardly at the beginning and both need each other to be clean.

While simply Generosity, which is better called trade, might lead to objected gain and refined existences, generosity of the real virtuose has no object of gain but simply delights in getting lightened of things having proper gained or be given, so there is no more dept or duty for relation behind, when acting generously.

That generosity alone is somehow like buying you free for a while, is the reason why wise always push torward moral at first place, like the nice simile of Ven. Ajahn Chah:

Quote
An Upside-down Basin

Once we've abandoned doing evil, then even when we make merit only a bit at a time, there's still hope that our perfections will grow full. Like a basin set upright out in the open: Even if rain falls only a drop at a time, there's a chance that the basin will get full.

But if we make merit without abandoning evil, it's like putting a basin upside-down out in the open. When the rain falls it still lands on the bottom of the basin, but on the outside bottom, not on the inside. There's no way the water will fill the basin.

He is/has been of course a teacher able to teach those having gained path, further.

My person hopes that this words in regard of the abounding of maccharia, as a matter of completed virtue , gives more clear perspectives, even can be found and traced by oneself here and now in giving it simply a try and look.

Quote from: Abhidhamma in daily life
Those Who Can Do Without Dana

There is a class of people who do not need to perform deeds of charity. They are the great yogis who strive earnestly to escape from samsara in the present existence. They are occupied full time in samatha and vipassana work. If they spend their time in the performance of Dana, it will only be a waster of time and effort. Dana is not necessary for them as they are fully intent on gaining liberation very soon, they must zealously practice meditation day and night. Once a Bhikkhu from Madalay who was always eager to perform Dana came to practice meditation under the guidance of Maha Gandhron Sayadaw who was our Preceptor. One morning the Sayadaw saw the Bhikkhu gathering flowers to offer the Buddha. The Sayadaw admonished the Bhikkhu saying, 'While undertaking meditation practices, be intent only on your practice, you may offer flowers later on."

This part seems to dispense the importance of dana declaring that meditation is enough as long as the practioner disposes of full time to meditate. Is this really correct? What about the gradual training and the other factors of Eightfold Noble Path?
If really, yes. Someone dwelling heedful, meaning aside of really necessary (within right livelyhood: e.g. one living on given) doing Jhana has no need and duty toward giving outwardly. One doing not the duties of an almreceiver needs to do Dana, in what ever way, to fall not strong into debts and lose all merits (means to gain joy with existences). That is the reason why often monks are very "social" and generous  ^-^, becoming step by step the slaves of their supporter... if not carefull. Some are simply not able yet to train in higher virtue, concentration and insight, and need to do a lot of Dana.
To answer in regard of lay people generally: Althought it is broadly understood so that it might be possible to practice without Dana as yet not on the highest livelihood, it's total impossible. Even 98%of monks are not really able to do without generosity, since often enough receive or take more willingly as needed. May it by accumulation of knowledge by not perfect means, for example, they need to share and teach their wealth in spiritual materials. So as long as there is something not needed carried, one needs to share to be able to carry it on.

That's a really importand and grave misunderstood matter, or better a dangerous zone of a lot of demerits and waste away of old. It's mostly justifyied by "there is no worthy" or even "I am actually more worthy, giving would be demeritiouse".

Quote from: Samana Johann in BSE
At least, not as a demand or just to belittle but as a matter of generosity and compassion, Danilo, so that you may have more ease and more doors to good places open in future, to train youself in good conduct, is actually not respectfull, not praisworthy and possible for the most cases a hard hindrance to ask indirect, without reverence and yes of course in certain equal manner. So for normal and strict holding on secure ways, Danilo might not only get any useful answer but also be known, like many, as someone with less virtues not at all worthy of gifts.

I find this part a bit confusing. Not sure if I got it right.
Ven. Johann mean that is not praisworthy if I would be so strict regarding to whom should be worthy of my generosity (worrying about the amount of merit I would gain). But it would be praisworthy practice generosity undiscriminately and spontaneously without aiming the amount of merit to be gain.
Am I understood it correctly?

Not sure if this "soft" places rebuke was seen. My person saw that Nyom placed wise questions, mature questions, an thought to warn him not to fall into internets usual respectless ways, asking the crowd and demanding or hoping that a wise burdens himself by giving the requested: in sort, its not of good conduct to ask not direct but others while the origin is even in reach or present. That's disrespectful, yet sadly usual everywhere on internet. It's ok to ask into the group of equal, to find common opinion but if seeking seriouse advice, one should proper approach.

Wise would really not easy enter the normal zones on internet and actually, if thinking on rules even Bhikkhus would be bound, nearly impossible to ever meet wise ones. So inregard of: "may Danilo have most ease to access other worlds of real benefit", it was said, assuming that he understands and regards the "sharp" advice.

The way Danilo does here and now, is actually good, which point again to a circumstances that his nature is actually of better kind but by to much association with improper usuals adopted to "survive" in that kind of enviroment.

Atma (my person) guesses that Danilo appreciates advices even if very direct, of what is my persons kind (...of generosity and less care of win or lose personally in this regard) to bring it also into the topic of the further questions here.

May Nyom Danilo have enough patient and "forgiviness" with especially language and ways, so that he might be able to receive and possible dig further.

My person ends will end here for now, giving space for prove and reflections.

Anumodana
7
Ven. Johann, I have read your answer and the thread in freesangha.com mentioned in it. A few doubts pop up.

Quote from: Samana Johann in BSE
worthy to note that the treasure of real generosity is only gained by a person of integrity, e.g. comes after perfection of silas
Quote from: francis in freesangha.com
Giving in this unencumbered way loosens the grip of greed and helps to develop non-attachment. Such giving also develops virtue and leads naturally to the next perfection, morality (sila).’
Quote from: Samana Johann in freesangha.com
Perfect, not different, Fancis

These statements seems to contradict each other. Is really important a strict order of what perfection comes first (sila before dana or dana before sila ?) or the order is merely a recommendation?


Quote from: Abhidhamma in daily life
Those Who Can Do Without Dana

There is a class of people who do not need to perform deeds of charity. They are the great yogis who strive earnestly to escape from samsara in the present existence. They are occupied full time in samatha and vipassana work. If they spend their time in the performance of Dana, it will only be a waster of time and effort. Dana is not necessary for them as they are fully intent on gaining liberation very soon, they must zealously practice meditation day and night. Once a Bhikkhu from Madalay who was always eager to perform Dana came to practice meditation under the guidance of Maha Gandhron Sayadaw who was our Preceptor. One morning the Sayadaw saw the Bhikkhu gathering flowers to offer the Buddha. The Sayadaw admonished the Bhikkhu saying, 'While undertaking meditation practices, be intent only on your practice, you may offer flowers later on."

This part seems to dispense the importance of dana declaring that meditation is enough as long as the practioner disposes of full time to meditate. Is this really correct? What about the gradual training and the other factors of Eightfold Noble Path?


Quote from: Samana Johann in BSE
At least, not as a demand or just to belittle but as a matter of generosity and compassion, Danilo, so that you may have more ease and more doors to good places open in future, to train youself in good conduct, is actually not respectfull, not praisworthy and possible for the most cases a hard hindrance to ask indirect, without reverence and yes of course in certain equal manner. So for normal and strict holding on secure ways, Danilo might not only get any useful answer but also be known, like many, as someone with less virtues not at all worthy of gifts.

I find this part a bit confusing. Not sure if I got it right.
Ven. Johann mean that is not praisworthy if I would be so strict regarding to whom should be worthy of my generosity (worrying about the amount of merit I would gain). But it would be praisworthy practice generosity undiscriminately and spontaneously without aiming the amount of merit to be gain.
Am I understood it correctly?
8
Mudita Upasaka Danilo , and welcome. Much joy in exploring the jungle here and never hestitate to ask or remark when ever something "disturbing" might touch.
9
I have found sangham.net through many Dhamma-dana given by Ven. Johann (mudita for his merits) in buddhism.stackexchange.com.  Since then, I have been experiencing a better comprehension of the Dhamma and my confidence grown up.  _/\_

10
[⇪Change language]

Die Laien-Betreiber und Aramikas des Klosters   *

*greatingS* *greatingSA* *greating*

 *gift*
Werte(r) Danilo ,

herzlich willkommen auf sangham.net!

Bitte nicht schrecken, wir legen sehr viel wert darauf niemanden und keine Bedürfnisse zu übersehen und so hilft uns die Technik, sollten wir uns gerade in tiefer guter oder schlechter Konzentration oder anderen Beschäftigungen befinden.

Aufstehen und Begrüßen, wenn ein Ankömmling eintritt und sich um seine Versorgung zu kümmern ist sehr wichtig.

Das ist ihr ganz persönliches Thema, und Sie können es gerne jederzeit für ein Vorstellen, ein Hallo und Aufwiedersehen, um andere über persönliches zu infomieren oder auch für ganz persönliche Anliegen benutzen.

Von Zeit zu Zeit, vor allem wenn das Thema genutzt wird, verschieben wir es das "Further introduction - Genauere Vorstellung " Forum, daß nur von angemeldeten Mitgliedern eingesehen werden kann. (generle Info dazu siehe hier ).

Das Forum hier ist sicherlich etwas anderes als andere Foren und bedarf sicher etwas Hilfe und Unterstützung und daher scheuen Sie bitte nicht zurück jederzeit Fragen zu stellen und Anliegen zu äußern. Gerade so wie zuhause.
Sie können in ihrem Nutzer-Profil verschiedenste Einstellungen vornehmen und auch diverse Abos für gewissen Forenbereiche (Benutzerkonto >> Profileinstellungen >> Gruppenmitgliedschaften) annehmen. Ganz wie sie es ihrer Praxis und ihren Bedürfnissen entsprechend einrichten wollen.

Wir wünschen Ihnen, Danilo, viel Freude mit ihrer Entdeckungsreise hier auf sangham.net und dem Jungel des Dhammas und vertrauen darauf, daß sie stets das richtige für Sie finden und es nie an passender Unterstützung fehlen mag.

Hochachtungsvoll

stellvertretend für die Gründer und Unterstüter
Ihr Admin und Moderator Team

 :-*

(PS: Sie können Deutsch oder Englisch oder beide Sprachen, ganz nach ihrem Belieben für alle Posts verwenden.

Vielleicht möchte Guest ja gleich etwas hier beitragen.)
[⇪Sprache wechseln]

Die Laien-Betreiber und Aramikas des Klosters   *

*greatingS* *greatingSA* *greating*

Dear Danilo,

heartily welcome on sangham.net!

Please do not feel startled by our welcome. We attach importance that it might not happen that anybody would be overlooked or that we would not care of personal needs. So the technique helps us a little, in the case we might dwell in deep good or bad concentration of busy with something else.

To approach a new coming guest and visitor and to care for the needs of a arriving traveler is very important.

This is your very personal Topic and you can use it any time to introduce your self, for a Hallo and goodby, to inform others here about personal issues or for any very personal issues in regard of the community here.
From time to time, especially if you make use of this topic, we will move it into the "Further introduction - Genauere Vorstellung " forum, which is only visible for active Members. (for General Info in regard of this and Introduction please see here )

Since the forum is of course different to usual places it will require some help and support and not only out of this reason, please never miss to raise a question or to mention any kind of requirement. Just like home.
You can adjust many settings in your User-profil and add subscription to certain forum-areas (User account >> Profile settings >> group membership). What ever fits best to your practice and needs.

We wish you, Danilo, much joy on your discovering journey on sangham.net and though the jungle of the Dhamma and we trust, that you will always find the proper things for your requirements and that you will never miss needed support.


Yours respectfully
Vicariously for the founder and supporter
Your Admin and Moderator team

metta & mudita
 :-*

(PS: You can use English or German or both languages for your posts, what ever you prefer.

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Talkbox

 

Johann

February 14, 2018, 03:57:33 PM
Sadhu, auch jenen, die ihn morgen, auch Chinesisches Neujahrsfest, begehen, einhalten.
 

Marcel

February 14, 2018, 01:37:51 PM
einen verdienstvollen uposatha allen!!!
 

Johann

February 10, 2018, 12:31:09 PM
Sadhu! Mag er fruchtvoll verlaufen sein. Gerade wieder Möglichkeit erhalten, in dieser Welt hier beizutragen.
 

Marcel

February 08, 2018, 12:46:43 PM
 :-* :-* :-* ich wünsche allen einen verdienstvollen uposatha  :-* :-* :-*
 

Marcel

February 05, 2018, 02:19:14 PM

 :-* :-* :-* sadhu,sadhu,sadhu

 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

February 02, 2018, 12:38:06 PM
Sadhu
Meinereiner ist so schnell ie noch nie genesen. Die Symptome des Befalls nur 2 Tage, und die üblichen 5 Tage um das Medikament zu überstehen. Atma ist gerade wohl auf und auch das ist wie für alle nicht sicher. Nutze den Tag heißt vorallem über Alter, Krankheit und Tod, wie Alternative z
 

Sophorn

January 31, 2018, 08:34:45 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
Möge sich Bhante wieder schnell vondem Malariaschub erholen!  :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

January 24, 2018, 04:49:45 PM
Nyom Moritz
 

Moritz

January 24, 2018, 04:48:30 PM
Namasakara, Bhante _/\_
 

Marcel

January 24, 2018, 12:46:37 PM
 :-* ehrwürdiger bhante johann  :-*
 

Johann

January 24, 2018, 12:10:15 PM
Nyom Marcel.
 

Johann

January 24, 2018, 07:27:24 AM
Nyom Jens.
 

Johann

January 24, 2018, 05:39:37 AM
Nächste Woche ist ja schon Magha-puja, doch Ovāda-pāṭimokkha Gāthā ist ja etwas Zeitloses. Ajahn Lees Dhamma für Jedermann .
 

Moritz

January 24, 2018, 12:41:03 AM
Namasakara Bhante _/\_

Einen verdienstvollen Uposatha allen.
_/\_
 

Marcel

January 23, 2018, 10:31:51 PM
 :-* natürlich auch ein verdienstvollen uposatha in allen anderren welten  :-*
 

Marcel

January 23, 2018, 06:00:44 PM
 :-* einen verdienstvollen Uposatha wünsche ich allen in kambodscha  :-*
 

Marcel

January 23, 2018, 05:27:00 PM
 :-*sadhu ehrwürdiger bhante johann!!! :-*
 

Johann

January 23, 2018, 05:25:01 PM
Atma wird sich zurückziehen, werte Herren. Mögen Sie sich noch gerne austauschen und kennenlernen. Nyom Marcel hilft sicher gerne weiter. Und nicht vergessen Ihre Verdienste noch zu teilen.

Chamreoun bho (möge sich Wohl mehren)
 

Johann

January 21, 2018, 01:39:10 PM
Sadhu!
 

Sophorn

January 20, 2018, 04:03:38 PM
 :-* :-* :-*
Mögen alle Lebewesen frei von Leid sein!
Mögen alle guten Wünsche vielfach zu den Wünschern zurückkommen.
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Moritz

January 20, 2018, 01:29:11 AM
_/\_
 

Johann

January 19, 2018, 11:14:34 AM
Sokh chomreoun, Nyom (, verspätet, Zeile meist eingeklappt, wohl ein Browser - cookie Fehler)
 

Moritz

January 19, 2018, 05:35:24 AM
_/\_ Namasakara, Bhante
_/\_
 

Johann

January 18, 2018, 05:06:38 AM
..wäre es nicht passend "Gestehen" anzunehmen, selbes Ups habend. Jedoch ist es in dem Fall ja noch gut gegangen und daher Grund für gemeinsames "gerade noch" und Mudita. Gut das gewisse Verbindungen und Wahrnehmen nicht abreißt (reißen kann) und absehbar passiert.
 

Johann

January 18, 2018, 05:02:41 AM
Atma war, aus irgend einem Grund, fest überzeugt, das gestern Uposatha sein sollte, trotzdem er am Almosengang gar Laien in Wat ziehen sah (denkend, gut auch heute an punna teilzunehmen). Selbigem Thema gegegnend, sah Atma nach und mußte feststellen, das bereits der 16. war. So zu diesem Ausmaß (
 

Moritz

January 17, 2018, 10:36:54 PM
 

Johann

January 17, 2018, 01:08:49 PM
Und gestern? Übersehen, oder verdienstvoll?
 

Sophorn

January 09, 2018, 07:48:37 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
sadhu. anumodana.
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

January 09, 2018, 01:51:15 AM
Sadhu! Anumodana!
 

Marcel

January 09, 2018, 01:39:30 AM
 :-*allen ein verdienstvollen uposatha :-*
 

Johann

January 03, 2018, 11:42:34 AM
ធម្មតា ញោម។ Dhammatā, Ñoma.
 

Marcel

January 03, 2018, 10:39:23 AM
 :-* បាទ :-*  អរគុណ :-*  ខ្ញុំសុខសបាយជាទទអរគុណ  :-* ehrwürdiger bhante, ja mir geht es gut! ich hab mich er-holt!  wie geht es ihnen?  :-*
 

Johann

January 03, 2018, 10:30:20 AM
Marcel. Er- oder besser vielleicht Entholt und Verdaut?
 

Marcel

January 03, 2018, 10:24:49 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Chanroth

January 02, 2018, 04:59:02 AM
សាធុសាធុ :-*
 

Johann

January 01, 2018, 02:05:59 PM
Sokh chomreuon, Nyom.
 

Chanroth

January 01, 2018, 12:36:03 PM
 :-* :-* :-*Karuna tvay bongkum
 

Johann

January 01, 2018, 12:42:33 AM
Einen freidvollen und erkenntnisreichen Vollmond Uposatha, am ersten Tag des Jahres.
 

Johann

December 31, 2017, 05:59:48 PM
Also hier spricht man nun schon von Wiedergeburt 2018.
 

Maria

December 30, 2017, 10:19:57 AM
Danke, wird weitergegeben und ebenfalls die besten Wünsche retour
 

Johann

December 30, 2017, 10:12:19 AM
Beste Wünsche und Grüße in den Kreis der Familien, Freunde und Lieben und möge man viel Zeit mit den Älteren, guten Gönnern und Weisen verbringen, sich nicht zu sehr Panalem hingeben.
 

Maria

December 30, 2017, 10:09:05 AM
Zeichen davor ist leider unpassend.
 

Maria

December 30, 2017, 10:05:41 AM
 :-*Werter Bhante
 

Johann

December 30, 2017, 10:04:46 AM
Njom Maria.
 

Johann

December 23, 2017, 01:56:19 PM
Funtioniert hier gut, Nyom Sophorn
 

Sophorn

December 23, 2017, 01:35:54 PM
 :-* :-* :-*
Karuna tvay bongkum
kana ist aufgefallen, dass die Bilder sich schlecht runterladen lassen. Hat das mit dem Server zu tun oder doch eine Störung hier in Ö? :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

December 23, 2017, 12:01:30 PM
មើលនិងចែករំលែកដោយខ្លួនអ្នកនៅពេលក្រោយ
http://sangham.net/index.php?topic=8304.new#new
 

Johann

December 23, 2017, 11:59:01 AM
បាន ណោម
 

Chanroth

December 23, 2017, 11:44:51 AM
 :-*តើព្រះតេជគុណបានទទួលEmailខ្ញុំកណាឬនៅ
 

Johann

December 23, 2017, 11:34:31 AM
ពិតប្រាកដបានបាត់ឬអត់? ហេតុអ្វីបានជាការកាន់និងការចិញ្ចឹម?

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