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Vihara => Open Vihara - [Offenes Vihara] => Topic started by: Dhammañāṇa on April 22, 2015, 12:54:12 PM

Title: When a western monk is sick in Thailand...
Post by: Dhammañāṇa on April 22, 2015, 12:54:12 PM
also what I pray or assume all the time...

When a western monk is sick in Thailand... (http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=23431) (Dhammawheel)

Quote from: Bhante Dhammanando
A western monk is sure to have an easy time if:

• He has health insurance, or...
• He uses money and has plenty of it, or...
• He is part of some outfit like the Ajahn Chah tradition which has an abundance of wealthy lay supporters, or...
• He has a personal lay supporter of unlimited means who has offered to pay for any medical expenses he may incur. (Usually he would need to have been a monk for many years before anyone made an offer like this).

If he is not in any of these categories then his choice is between the Sangha Hospital in Bangkok and the country's state hospitals.

Like here... If you are a Thai Monk, you will need you familie... No Sangha
Title: Re: When a western monk is sick in Thailand...
Post by: gus on October 02, 2018, 07:54:31 AM
Okasa,
It is true that many can't easily abandon all the subtle bonds as a putujjana. Yet, I think this is a point where a monk can assess his level of determination (on fear about the future).

We know some monks who had refused to depend on the support of their monasteries, lived in solitude and when they had got seriously ill (with an disabality to walk or deadly ill ..etc.) asked for help from the monastery again. Many permanent-monastery-dwelling monks laughed at them.

There is no confusion about what is the proper way of living like real ascetic or like a moon. Many knows independent way is the better way. Yet they are keen on ridiculing those who do better things while have not yet have the determination required.

It is like this:
After a layman became a monk without a higher level of determination, then when he try to go back again to the lay life, many laugh at him.

It seems when we renouncing we should have to have a good level of determination.

Vandami.

Title: Re: When a western monk is sick in Thailand...
Post by: Dhammañāṇa on October 02, 2018, 04:55:43 PM
Knowing much is a real burden. An certain perceptions can make a lot of pain.

Mostly, today, one thinks to need to be perfect before going to school.

If we read the Vinaya the Buddha gave roles that someone ordaining = willing to leave home, not to choin another, should not even be informed of his lifelihood for the rest of his life. But as soon he did.

Modern people have no idea of life as it really is, not having met the messanger.

Who ever laughs not just because he sees how foolish he was before he understood, lifted himself above others, gained the lose with his win.

Did Deva gus ever read the heartwood Suttas in Majjhima Nikaya?

It's good to be careful or pay for debts one accumulated and not run away.

Mistakes are "normal".

Fools laught at others. Some do criticise others with the aim to try to shine, some to win over people to mobilize for a battle and take over, ... some out of duty, some out of compassion.

Once one has lost all estimation of more advanced and higher, has lost all his goodness, what does he have left to give into, at the end possible facing himself.

What did the Buddha say?

One who has firm faith, holds on Vinaya, focus on right view... one following the eightfold path, having developed it, is sure to gain final liberation.

Does one like to take is house, home, body... status, virtue, concentration, knowledge... take with him there?

What's the meaning of ceto-vimutti and pañña-vimutti?

And it's because many actually tried to leave home that they highly respect those who try it and go into the battle, support them, encourage them... not tread them just like farmers there pigs and chicken.

One also needs to understand that there are very less modern people who even ever practiced giving their whole life. Like children in the east, modern children, children of this Maras delight days.

Critic, support... what ever means, what ever tools to support each other forward, if not seeing the army of Mara, how could metta, karuna, mudita and upekkha ever arise?

This is why all starts or requires gratitude first. For it's the fundation of: Respect, Confidence and Patient (http://zugangzureinsicht.org/html/lib/authors/thanissaro/respectconfidencepatient_en.html).

Kamma, Upanissaya, is not a matter of east, west, birth... it's very individual, and it's very individual into what one gives to, forgets it and go beyound.

What does Nyom @Deva think, does the Uposatha of the cowboys or the Uposatha of the Nigaṇṭhā leave an opening to the Uposatha of the Noble Ones?

Quote
It seems when we renouncing we should have to have a good level of determination.

So one needs to be an Non-returner first?

What about just gaining confidence after meeting the four messenger with the Samaṇa at least?
Or the Samaṇa fist, and the others by following him? Did Rahula met the three before?

Deva gus, by cultivating householder upekkha, grow up in an actually socialist enviroment already or?

What's that we?

If one run's around with an "I", it's like a person carry a gun for protection. It causes some fear. Probably one might fear an shout him.

If one run's around with an "We", it's like carring a nuclear weapon on his shoulder...

So what cause fear or even increase it?

Quote from: http://accesstoinsight.eu/en/lib/thai/chah/insimpleterms
CHILDREN, BULLETS

A gun shoots its children — its bullets — outward. We shoot ours inward, into our heart. When they're good, we're shot in the heart. When they're bad, we're shot in the heart. They're an affair of kamma, our children. There are good ones, there are bad ones, but both the good and bad are our children all the same.

When they're born, look at us: The worse off they are, the more we love them. If one of them comes down with polio and gets crippled, that's the one we love the most. When we leave the house we tell the older ones, “Look after your little sister. Look after this one” — because we love her. When we're about to die we tell them, “Look after her. Look after my child.” She's not strong, so you love her even more.

And what does a Dhammika say if leaving house?

One his death-bed, last advices toward his family and those having been bond on him?
Title: Re: When a western monk is sick in Thailand...
Post by: gus on October 02, 2018, 08:52:27 PM
Vandami.
Title: Re: When a western monk is sick in Thailand...
Post by: Dhammañāṇa on October 02, 2018, 11:55:21 PM
Was empfehlen dahinscheidende dhammische Führer? (http://forum.sangham.net/index.php/topic,8739.msg15467.html#msg15467)

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

'Whatever there may be in our family that can be given away, all that will be shared unstintingly with virtuous ones who are of admirable character.' That's how you should train yourselves."
Quote from: http://zugangzureinsicht.org/html/tipitaka/sn/sn41/sn41.010.than_en.html

"Family, dwelling, ones possesions, status, Dhamma..." Gratitude.

Sometimes "young" Monks, Novices, Bhikkhus... hardly inspired, come up, risk. Sometimes they come later with a fellow Bhikkhu.

Sometimes they are really happy to share their merits like "I am now no more reachable, having given up telefon..." Some, of small groups, like-minded, a honorable Bhikkhu stops, let his driver stop, waering old robs, and giving their alms (having got from devoted in their monastery, because needing to drive for a bussiness, meeting a "wanderer" right at almsround in a remoted village. Later come up.

Then telling that they are bond by Vinaya. Some by society, state... family... afraid of this, that... desire...

Nobody seems to be willing to give up home for another, yet claiming all the corruption in their livelihoods.

A woman, having come with husband and children, sunday, before ancestorday.

Asking, listening, asking... probably 2h. Forgetting to eat. How comes that my person listened so many monks, Dhamma... and today my person feels like understandig the first time?

She left home. Could develop yonissomanisakara and was somehow remembered on the good Dhamma.

It's all a matter of upanissayapaccayena a matter of giving into and rejoice by it. See realiced that nobody aside of here self can ake or smile or look angry. She simply tried.

She simply was asked if sign, sound... thoughts are lasting, real, a refuge, worthy to hurt one self or others for it.

But she has left home to be able to look for here self, to see.

And what does Deva gus here. He nearly totally left home, but worries stillabout his "childs"

They sat next the woman and she reported that they react total different here, later.

Maybe because their mother did so? Who knows?

Some aalways say that they rejoiced and will come back?

Don't take the key with you, sometimes helps. Other Devas just like to come back.
Title: Re: When a western monk is sick in Thailand...
Post by: Dhammañāṇa on October 03, 2018, 12:24:19 AM
My person talks much today... but do people really know who provide them to still stay in contact?

It's not google, facebook... it's about merely poor but mighty past of future Devas.

And their wishes, when giving food, when giving for most beshameing just that little, success.

So what do good leader, not to speak of those having seen the Dhamma, where ever advice their families?

What do children learn in good families?

Give. And if nothing having right now, better then year doing daily sacrifies, simply a bow, of what the elder said, is worthy to respect if meeting.

Just that might be enought to keep Upanissay alive and nurish it.

What one does not nurish dies. What do you like to grow? So we invite the Devas or not? We invite or families or not? We invite all those who we owe a lot a gratitude or not?

Would good come? If we invite Bhikkhus, not for gain, teaching... but just to be happy to give, would good come?

Title: Re: When a western monk is sick in Thailand...
Post by: gus on October 03, 2018, 10:24:07 AM
Vandami Bhante.