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Open monastery, laity practice area- [Öffentliches Kloster, Laienpraxisbereich] (vata assama) => Workplace for good condition - [Arbeitsplatz für gute Bedingungen] pāramī => Topic started by: Dhammañāṇa on February 04, 2018, 12:10:48 AM

Title: "we need a monastic sangha of true followers" demanding or seeing requirements?
Post by: Dhammañāṇa on February 04, 2018, 12:10:48 AM

Aramika   *

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[Original post:]


Quote from: https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/the-buddha-morality-social-obligations-and-the-path/8109
That’s why we need a monastic sangha of true followers of the holy life, who have abandoned the world and left its management to the worldlings, who can provide a living manifestation of the peace the Buddha found, and that the rest of us can sit close to when we choose.

Sadhu!
Title: Re: "we need a monastic sangha of true followers" demanding or seeing requirements?
Post by: Dhammañāṇa on February 11, 2018, 01:07:55 AM
With joy such insight is seens, yet it still could find it's further basement rather on right view just on demanding missing out causes needed to be given to face their effects.

Feel welcome Guest and everybody else, to discuss and investigate the issue, the causes, effects and maybe very importand last words in an explaining of dreams by the Buddha for a king are useful to get it very personal and right at the end for actors and their effects, are a useful help as well.

Of course the original writer is also welcome as all others here, in the case someone likes to personally transfere an invitation, better maybe, giving a possibility.

Is it possible for consumer to change their situation even if effects but not the roots of conditions are seen?

Is it possible for a "true Sangha" to change consumer attitudes by serving them, and if, how long and how far for a better? How could "equal" ever meet each other?
Title: Re: "we need a monastic sangha of true followers" demanding or seeing requirements?
Post by: Sophorn on February 11, 2018, 08:30:41 AM
 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

Thank you, Bhante for the invitation. Kana will read this thouroughly, first.

 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Title: Re: "we need a monastic sangha of true followers" demanding or seeing requirements?
Post by: Dhammañāṇa on March 09, 2018, 11:40:57 AM
What does one think? Whould it be possible that there would actually th Sangha arose, if modern or western "Buddhist" would practice generosity and devotion, would sacrify toward the Three Gems, rather then consuming them off, engross by installing trade centers, organisations in contest, intermediate trade, Dhamma via shops, open source trade strategies, in schools and universities, hireing of mercs oitside the Sangha doing favors for their businesses?

True Sangha requires true devotion, and uncorrupted hearts. Can you see that around and specially in yourself?

That's the working place if after claiming that will cause effects.

Only one who gained the level of integrity would be able to rightly getting aware of integer beings and real generosity come after the perfection of the first state of awakening, others then giving into trade for the world.

"Unconfortable" or better by nature, neither the true followers nor the true Sangha has any desire and reason to go back to means of trade. Why is it like this, that they would not do ugly things and missdeeds for any sake deliberated? Because they are incapable and certain secure, less bound to take on unskillful means for any self-identification and entertainment of, and sacrifies in such.

Doubt, at least, 'what ever arises is subject to decay' is as well eliminated.

That is why those are called the great field of merits, because what ever work done their will not flow back into unskillful means, is directed to liberation.
Title: Re: "we need a monastic sangha of true followers" demanding or seeing requirements?
Post by: Dhammañāṇa on May 01, 2018, 01:40:46 PM
Quote from: Helmut Hecker http://zugangzureinsicht.org/html/lib/authors/hecker/wheel345_en.html#ch5
Also on a third occasion the Buddha asked Kassapa to instruct the monks, and Kassapa expressed his reluctance for the same reason as before. It seems that this time, too, the Buddha did not urge Kassapa to change his mind and admonish the monks, but he himself spoke of the reasons for their conduct:

"Formerly, Kassapa, there were elders of the Order who were forest-dwellers, - living on almsfood, wearing rag-robes, using only the threefold set of robes, having few wants and being contented, living secluded and aloof from society, energetic, and they praised and encouraged such a way of life. When such elders or younger bhikkhus visited a monastery, they were gladly welcomed and honored as being dedicated to the practice of the Dhamma. Then those who thus welcomed and honored those noble monks would also strive to emulate them in their ways of life, and this would be of great benefit to them for a long time.

"But nowadays, Kassapa, those who are honored when visiting a monastery are not monks of austere and earnest life, but those who are well known and popular and are amply provided with the requisites of a monk. These are made welcome and honored, and their hosts try to emulate them, which will bring them harm for a long time. Hence one will be right in saying that such monks are harmed and overpowered by what does harm to a monk's life."

— Paraphrased from S.16:8

On another occasion, Kassapa asked the Buddha: "What is the reason that formerly there were fewer rules, but more monks were established in the knowledge of Arahatship, while now there are more rules, but fewer monks are established in the knowledge of Arahatship?" The Buddha replied:

"So it happens, Kassapa, when beings deteriorate and the true Dhamma vanishes: then there are more rules and fewer Arahats. There will be, however, no vanishing of the true Dhamma until a sham Dhamma arises in the world. But when a sham Dhamma arises in the world, there will be more rules and fewer Arahats.
"But, Kassapa, it is not a cataclysm of the four elements — earth, water, fire and air — that makes the Dhamma disappear. Nor is the reason for its disappearance similar to the overloading of a ship that causes it to sink. It is rather the presence of five detrimental attitudes that causes the obscuration and disappearance of the Dhamma.

"These are the five: it is the lack of respect and regard for the Buddha, the Dhamma, the Sangha, the training, and for meditative concentration, on the part of monks and nuns, and male and female lay devotees. But so long as there is respect and regard for those five things, the Dhamma will remain free of obscuration and will not disappear."

— S.16:13


It deserves to be noted that, according to this text, the male and female lay followers are also preservers of the Dhamma. We may conclude from this that even when the Dhamma has come to oblivion among the monks, it will still remain alive when honored and practiced by the laity.

That's the big fallacy in it. It's because people love Dhamma be cause they make a livelihood from it, trade with it, write books and sell them, Dhamma decays. And it's in association of respectless monks and respectless lay people living in association live farmers and animals together, that of cource it might be that farm animals might disappear but the trader and farmers, not out of respect, but for pleasure will carry it along.

It's this and the fathers of disrespect, monks who approved such, that the Dhamma will soon be gone.

It's impossible that lay people are able to carry it even one generation. Not able to let go of anything, how could they, aside for pleasure, becoming and trade only give the slightes reason for confidence. Stingy people all over, with their actors and paied cabarets and shows... free and liberated like oxen, demanting and singing their gospels, paying another worthless fool in robes. What ever one gives into, that one gains and their might be those confussed who think that those on the lane might depend on them, that demand forms the Gems...

Worthless to try to make fools understand. Total hopeless...

"But nowadays, Kassapa, those who are honored when visiting a monastery are not monks of austere and earnest life, but those who are well known and popular and are amply provided with the requisites of a monk. These are made welcome and honored, and their hosts try to emulate them, which will bring them harm for a long time. Hence one will be right in saying that such monks are harmed and overpowered by what does harm to a monk's life."


Munika-Jataka (http://www.zugangzureinsicht.org/html/tipitaka/kn/j/j01/j030_en.html)

Truly, intelligence and knowledge has nothing to do with wisdom and insight:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

If he recites many teachings, but
   — heedless man —
doesn't do what they say,
like a cowherd counting the cattle of
          others,
he has no share in the contemplative life.

Even if for a lifetime
the fool stays with the wise,
he knows nothing of the Dhamma —
   as the ladle,
   the taste of the soup.
Quote from: http://zugangzureinsicht.org/html/tipitaka/kn/dhp/dhp.01.than_en.html