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Topic Summary

Posted by: Johann
« on: August 03, 2019, 06:05:00 PM »

[Q&A] Are interactions between human and Gods good or not so?

One a question in this manner was answered in such way:

 _/\_  _/\_  _/\_ Ven. members of the Sangha, Ven. Theras, Ven. Fellows,

Upasaka, Upasika, touched and interested,

Are these interactions, between Gods and men, all positive or also negative?

While they can be binding on the path, the association with Devas and Brahmas in required to go beyond and starts with accepting right view.

A Sutta, which transports the need as well the dangers, althought not easy to grasp right, is:

AN 2.35: Samacitta Sutta — Minds in Tune

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

“Friends, I will teach you about the individual interiorly fettered and the one exteriorly fettered. Listen & pay close attention. I will speak.”...

More on that:

  • Association with the Devas - associated Rebirth
  • Modern "hierarchy" and devotion - obstacles: āgati & agati

    And how do the follower of the Noble ones use the association with the Devas and Brahmas? Following the cleaning technics of the Noble Ones, doing the Uposatha duty:

    Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

    "[Again, the Uposatha of the Noble Ones] is the cleansing of the mind through the proper technique. And how is the defiled mind cleansed through the proper technique?

    "There is the case where the disciple of the noble ones recollects the devas, thus: 'There are the Devas of the Four Great Kings, the Devas of the Thirty-three, the Yama Devas, the Contented Devas, the devas who delight in creation, the devas who have power over the creations of others, the devas of Brahma's retinue, the devas beyond them. Whatever conviction they were endowed with that — when falling away from this life — they re-arose there, the same sort of conviction is present in me as well. Whatever virtue they were endowed with that — when falling away from this life — they re-arose there, the same sort of virtue is present in me as well. Whatever learning they were endowed with that — when falling away from this life — they re-arose there, the same sort of learning is present in me as well. Whatever generosity they were endowed with that — when falling away from this life — they re-arose there, the same sort of generosity is present in me as well. Whatever discernment they were endowed with that — when falling away from this life — they re-arose there, the same sort of discernment is present in me as well.' As he is recollecting the devas, his mind is calmed, and joy arises; the defilements of his mind are abandoned, just as when gold is cleansed through the proper technique. And how is gold cleansed through the proper technique? Through the use of a furnace, salt earth, red chalk, a blow-pipe, tongs, & the appropriate human effort. This is how gold is cleansed through the proper technique. In the same way, the defiled mind is cleansed through the proper technique. And how is the defiled mind cleansed through the proper technique? There is the case where the disciple of the noble ones recollects the devas... As he is recollecting the devas, his mind is cleansed, and joy arises; the defilements of his mind are abandoned. He is thus called a disciple of the noble ones undertaking the Deva-Uposatha. He lives with the devas. It is owing to the devas that his mind is calmed, that joy arises, and that whatever defilements there are in his mind are abandoned. This is how the mind is cleansed through the proper technique.

    Once someone, by faith in the Tripple Gems, generosity, Virtue, has gained access toward the Brahmas, able to join their reunion, ones mind is proper prepeared to hear the teachings of disadvantages, renounciation and the Dhamma of the Arahats.

    If one access as poor person on the high teachings it would be often just the Uposatha of the wolf , the "beggars-renounciation", and as soon as pleasures in the sensual realms arise, he would turn away from his practice, join the pleasures of the Devas.

    Only for one knows all realms in this world can let go of their lures. For the fox and the graps there is not much hope and his incapacity-excuses will not find ends.

    Anumodana