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Topic Summary

Posted by: Johann
« on: September 20, 2019, 12:13:40 PM »

* Johann : Nyom Vinodh , thought he might read some, uses a "stranger' sign for converting , : it's a sanskript-literation l. Much to complicated , till impossible without dictionary request, to convert Khmer and other Asian Languages rightly. Good to limit it to Khmer-Pali script.

The Khmerpali on the other hand is converted into l̤a

Btw. not sure how to handle the apostrophe often used in roman liberation (seemingly giving sign that a vowel is cut off) as such is not in use in Khmer (and monks say, if one is not very skilled in Pali, one is not capable to translate as there are no real hints on conjunctions) Not sure how a rule here could be formulated.

Posted by: Johann
« on: September 19, 2019, 07:07:40 AM »

Aramika   *

Ein oder mehrer Beiträge wurden hier im Thema abgeschnitten und damit in neues Thema "Short-long vowel rules, conjunctions " eröffnet, dem angehäng.
One or more posts have been cut out of this topic here. A new topic, based on it, has been created as "Short-long vowel rules, conjunctions " or attached there.
Posted by: Johann
« on: September 18, 2019, 06:25:56 PM »

No problem, Bhante, when ever not disturbing.

Burmese language seems even more challenging... not sure if there is a Venerable used to it whom we could ask.
Posted by: Khemakumara
« on: September 18, 2019, 06:05:42 PM »

 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

Kana, Kana now understands! Kana also think so, but not sure and do not know about the rules. Kana will ask Bhante Indaññāno. At the moment, Bhante gives teaching.
Posted by: Johann
« on: September 18, 2019, 04:07:27 PM »

To raise the question in direct sample

Are there combinations of long vowels with "ṁ/ṃ"  like this (using k just as holder):

ក+ ា + ំ(no?) kāṃ
ក+ ិ + ំ (yes) kiṃ
ក+ ី + ំ (no) kīṃ
ក+ ុ + ំ (yes?) kuṃ
ក+ ូ + ំ (no) kūṃ
អ + ំ(yes?) aṃ
អា + ំ(no?) āṃ
ឥ + ំ(yes?) Iṃ
ឦ + ំ(no?) Īṃ
ឧ + ំ (yes?) Uṃ
ឩ + ំ (no?) Ūṃ
ឯ + ំ(yes?) Eṃ

Kana thinks that a long vowel would always be turned into short if followed by ṃ, but not sure, Bhante Khemakumara .



Posted by: Johann
« on: September 18, 2019, 03:36:56 PM »

No, Bhante Khemakumara . It requires to get into the question. As for the attachments, they are usually attached in Dhamma and Tipitaka, helpful for the other scripts.

If Bhante has time and means, he could add the additional scripts in the second list akkharakrama or better a new list for Burmese akkharakrama, Sinhalese akkharakrama, Thai akkharakrama... not sure if he has the Multilingual keyboard app installed.

Its to see that such as I(a)m and U(a)m possible exist, right?
Posted by: Khemakumara
« on: September 18, 2019, 03:22:12 PM »

 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

Bhante Johann,

 while Kana was learning (still learning) to read pali-khmer Bhante Indaññāno gave following pictures so someone can figure out the right pronunciations. Does it give some clarification?
Posted by: Cheav Villa
« on: September 18, 2019, 02:25:22 PM »

 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Posted by: Johann
« on: September 18, 2019, 01:43:53 PM »

No, not really, Nyom Cheav Villa , as it would be "just" Khmer and not Pali, but Bhante Indaññāno could maybe help.

The question is whether "sra om" would appear in plain Pali also with long vowels such as  ីីī or  ូូ ū (as far as aware no: only with e, u and i, but not sure)

Also any special "law" would be of interest and as he likes mathematics he might had even an idea for a convert pattern.
Not sure whether he has access for now. Maybe Bhante Khemakumara could assist here in investigating the topic.

(Internet is actually empty of Khmer-Knowledge and development, as Zuckerberg, facebook and google, has already overtaken the Kingdom incl. the Sasana, is owned already by external industries.)
Posted by: Cheav Villa
« on: September 18, 2019, 01:34:33 PM »

 _/\_ _/\_  _/\_

Kana Prah Ang, maybe the link below could be of some help.

 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

https://cambodiannation.wordpress.com/category/khmer-language/
Posted by: Johann
« on: September 18, 2019, 11:30:20 AM »

Let's see if my person is able to draw down a look up pattern for a letter string roman to Khmer.

First letter "1":
ifthen
a/A
ā/Āអា
i/I
ī/Ī
u/U
...o/O...
k/K
G/g
...ḷ/Ḷ...

next "2" (following sign) would ask whether a consonant or vowel if previous was a consonant

if "1" ក-ឡ and "2" k-ḷadd footer value of "2"  ្+ក-ឡ
if "1" footer value of ក-ឡ and "2" k-ḷadd footer value of "2"  ្+ក-ឡ
if "1" អ-ឱ and "2" k-ḷadd ក-ឡ
if "1" ក-ឡ or footer value, and "2" a-
if "1" ក-ឡ or footer value, and "2" ā,i,ī,u,ū,e,oadd ា  ិិ  ីី  ុុ  ូូ េ ោ
if "1" ក-ឡ or footer value or  ិិ  ុុ ោ[1], and "2" ṃ/ṁ/ŋadd  ំ

This pattern could go on till the end of the string. Independent vowel do only accrue at the beginning and have usually no footer in Pali (when right, Nyom Cheav Villa ?), are standing alone, aside of A () which might, when long Ā have the vowel ā () included: អា.

If a consonant follows another consonant the footer value sign   ្្  is added (transforming the next consonant into a footer).

There might be a more easier pattern, follow the range of signs.

U+1780-179C + 179F-17A1 = consonants

if used as footer: 17D2 added before.

U+17A2 (actually 17A4 would be right, but usually used 17A2+17B6), 17A5-17A7, 17A9, 17AF, 17B1 = independent vowels

U+17B6-17B8, 17BB, 17BC, 17C1, 17C4 = vowels

Nikahit (the mystic "am"/"ang" sign) = 17C6

Maybe good to add the Unicode no. in the akkharakrama (done ✔)

Maybe a pattern that simply replaces at first place and then makes the footer check to add the footer value in between is easier to handle.

There is a traditional exception as well: bb would not be written ព្ព but ព្វ bv, a "bug" in Nyom Vinodh s script (as probably relaying on western sources) but actually a traditional "Sanskrit-baggage" probably.

* Johann : just saw that vowels are displayed double here
 1. not sure if used with ū yet, maybe good to ask Nyom Cheav Villa here, but Atma thinks it's used only with short vowels
Posted by: Johann
« on: September 18, 2019, 07:01:08 AM »

There are of course, althought some special excuses. Atma leaves the Pali alphabet roman and khmer behind meanwhile. May Nyom have a good rest.

http://accesstoinsight.eu/en/dictionary/akkharakrama

Burmese and Sinhalese might be similar. No idea in regard of Thai yet, since a "modern" new script.
Posted by: Moritz
« on: September 18, 2019, 06:53:20 AM »

Simple replacement might not work as dependent on order characters may be footers ... From Asian back might be easier.

As long as there are clear rules, whatever they are, one can tell a computer how to do it, of course.


just a sample:

akka : អក្ក
akaka: អកក

I see. Probably complicated. But maybe still possible to describe by simple rules?

_/\_ _/\_ _/\_


* Moritz is going to sleep now. _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Posted by: Johann
« on: September 18, 2019, 06:46:02 AM »

Atma searches for ways, for the Sangha, to convert pali words in roman script, into others, like khmer, thai... and vici versa.

Simple replacement might not work as dependent on order characters may be footers ... From Asian back might be easier.

just a sample:

akka : អក្ក
akaka: អកក

If there is no vovel inbetween, the next letter would become a footer and single letters in Asian scripts are often 2 or the in roman.

: dha
Posted by: Moritz
« on: September 18, 2019, 06:34:31 AM »

_/\_ Bhante,

If there are clear rules of conversion, simple replacements of characters, I think that would be easy to do for me, in a simple HTML page with JavaScript for example, where one could paste text to convert.
What exactly is needed?