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Topic Summary

Posted by: Johann
« on: December 13, 2019, 10:47:10 AM »

Again, Nyom Danilo , there isn't any evidence that child Raṭṭhapāla cheated, but the opposite. It was through his friends observation and care that his parents could see the pure mind behind his wishes.

It's actually a very strict rule and there ate only less situations where monks would be given to tolerate when larger harm for others could be expected. All, even very minor looking rules, are serious and bring one and others fast into "devils kitchen".

Here, and in regard of modern ideas, it's mainly a matter of basic graditude and respect. Who, who doesn't possess such, thinking in modes of grave wrong view, rights, would be ever able to place elders as their new father, teacher, instructor, and what communist careless society would the Sangha grow? A punch of rebelling outbreaked slaves who encourage others to rebellion. The goodness left back by the goodness of the Buddha and his good followed disciples would'nt last long and simply leave again a punch of social-worker and traders behind. Like one can see easy looking around this days.

And another aspect, possible not investigated, and also often mistreated is the blessing of parents with a child having given leaving home: [Q&A] Where does the believe "monks mother will be reborn in heaven" come from?
Posted by: Danilo
« on: December 13, 2019, 09:47:12 AM »


What was it good for to mention it?

The fact that Raṭṭhapāla was ordained even though he 'cheatead' to have his parent's permission and neither was reprehended, made me doubt a little about the strictness meant by this rule. And instead of create a new topic only to make a simple question, I've posted in this topic here, which seems be addressing to a similar issue (The rule's strictness of the parent's permission ). That's all.
Posted by: Johann
« on: December 07, 2019, 11:14:25 PM »

My person, Nyom Danilo , finds such foolish from a monk, in same way, to "suggest" such, bring such up as an idea, in regard of the topic here. What does Nyom think, is such an act of compassion, foolish, or simply usual way to earn with sharing "Dhamma", knowledge, reputation and adornments for the mind?

Actually it was great how the young man ("funny" btw. that my person had to thing on Nyom some hours ago, when reading how it worked out), wisely, already came to mind "hey, as it looks, such way doesn't seems to be well", after own considering. And don't one forget the dangers of what ever "compassionate" suggestions for a monks freedom of remorse.

What was it good for to mention it?

As in regard of "Why is such a ordination valid / no fault for the monk who gave it"? Generally wrongdoings, if even wrong (the is actually no evidence, that child Raṭṭhapāla blackmailed his parents intentionaly btw as suggested), before ordaining, going forth, isn't generally a hindrance for it, althought there are limits in regard of grave criminals (for example), where monks are not given (in same way, because to avoiding problems and lose reputation for the Sangha) to give going forth. The area of "no desireable" canditates, and the no-go's (which are in all cases simply invalid) are also different cases.

In the manner of the original topic, my person, stays to warn for modern/western-like tendencies in communities, since they are deep connected with basic wrong view and garant that no Noble ones, not even people with faith and fear of wrong-doing, dwell in such communities of which a different is surely not easy to be found in western/modern world. It's by means of selling pseudo-liberality for becoming, that such appears in more and more larger forms.

As there is a wordly topic a little similar: in western countries, or even global, there are often such as "refugee advice"-centers or exchange platforms, where people are trained what ever "legal" ways to gain wished. What does he think about a applicant with a rucksack full of "weapons" if approaching at the own door? Just to think generally of people with wrong view, thinking in terms of rights.

Another, something to consider why this rule came into being: right from beginning a child usually blackmail it's parents, preasured by love and affection parents sacrificed. It's really most liberating to "leave" the bond and obligation in what ever possible best manner. All to easy is blackmailing, if holding on the most dear of someone. There are nearly always ways to make good understandable so that another has the change to give most voluntary.

Thers is a nice story by the "Snoobish monk" with "son from good family", Kumāra, as his ordination name over there: FAQ’s about a monk .

(Okasa in between:  _/\_ Maybe Bhante Ariyadhammika likes to send Bhante Kumara another time an invitation to make use of all the possibilities here.)

Good to see that Nyom still finds time and gives into the topic of ways for liberation, btw. and signs of regards and that he may be well as well.
Posted by: Danilo
« on: December 07, 2019, 09:26:25 PM »

I wonder what Bhante would say about householder Raṭṭhapāla (MN 82 ) who blackmailed his own parents by threatening to starve himself to death (which is wrong view/intention - MN 61 ) because they aren't willing to concede him permission to going forth. And even though he resorted to wrong (apparently to me) means, his ordination was valid and he became a arahant. How can this be?
Posted by: Johann
« on: December 05, 2019, 06:12:01 PM »

A seeker, who seeks ways to get around getting leave by parents informed by one of Brahms & Co's corrupted families:

Quote from: DW
Hello there, I spoke to a monk I know who ordained under Ajahn Brahm here in Australia (Ajahn Chah lineage of Thai Forest Tradition). His response is below.

regarding your question below. Giving it simply, no you don't need your parents approval.
This question comes quite often from us Westerners and it was on my mind as well before I ordained. This is one of the questions they will ask you when you ordain. Do you have your parents approval. And you should answer yes. Well what then happens if you say no. These questions does not stop the Sangha ordaining you if they want to go ahead with it. And the ordination is still valid even though you did not get the permission.
This rule came about when Buddha ordained his own son who was still a young boy and Buddhas own father said that you should first ask the guardians of the boy whether it is OK to allow him to ordain. Your parents are no longer taking care of you so you can decide for yourself. It is of course nice thing to tell them that you are going to do this and if they don't specifically tell you NO we won't allow you to do this. Well you can take this as their approval and this is usually the norm these days.

Norm and standard to start the "holly life" with disobedience, disrespect and deliberate lie, or approve of actually not classified yet..

Get your course "How to best cheat Vinaya to gain Nibbana today on suttacentral"...

Whom to disrespect next after traditional countries, Elders, Sangha, Vinaya, Dhamma, parents, leaders, copyrights, new-life...

It's to "fear" that the Sanghas in traditional countries will fall sooner in sympathy for "pseudo liberality of Devadatta and Mara" then they realize their destruction, and really less hope for western/modern settlements at all.

Just a Punk-Sangha left.

It's really disgusting at large, seeing this rainbow-parade, leader by frontsinger "Come with me into Dhamma..." Sujato, followed by the gender-confused female kibbutz overseers drain all over the world and endanger more and more small lasting possibilities for not so lucky born to ever find ordination inside.

And being that, good encouragement to seek minimum for No-returner attainment.