Virtual Dhamma-Vinaya Vihara

Open monastery, laity practice area- [Öffentliches Kloster, Laienpraxisbereich] (vata assama) => Workplace for good condition - [Arbeitsplatz für gute Bedingungen] pāramī => Topic started by: Cheav Villa on January 19, 2019, 06:00:54 PM

Title: ទុខ​ពីបុញ្ញ?​ - Dukkha while doing merits?
Post by: Cheav Villa on January 19, 2019, 06:00:54 PM

Aramika   *

Dieses neue Thema (bzw. diese/r Beitrag/e) wurde  aus abgetrennten Beiträgen, ursprünglich in [តារ​បកប្រែ|translate] អត្ថបទ ស្វាគមន៍ - welcome text (http://sangham.net/index.php/topic,8933.msg17317.html#msg17317), hinzugefügt. Für ev. ergänzende Informationen zur sehen Sie bitte das Ursprugsthema ein. Anumodana!
The new topic (or post/s) here are originaly from [តារ​បកប្រែ|translate] អត្ថបទ ស្វាគមន៍ - welcome text (http://sangham.net/index.php/topic,8933.msg17317.html#msg17317). For eventual additionally information: please visit also the Topic of origin. Anumodana!
[Original post:]


  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
ព្រះអង្គ​  កូណាកំពុងតែគិតអំពីអត្ថបទស្វាគមន៍ នេះតែមិនទាន់រកឃើញ វិធីសរសេរដើម្បី បង្ហាញពីផ្លូវត្រូវសំរាប់បុគ្គលណា
ដែលបានកំពុងជួបទុក្ខពិតប្រាកដ..  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Title: Re: Dukkha while doing merits
Post by: Johann on January 19, 2019, 06:53:33 PM
Such dukkha is caused by thinking "I can/like to help others". When such comes up, after Karuna and mudita, it's good to switch to uppeka "Beings are heir of there deeds..." and to give a little more touch of that the random of many versions is perfect, so nothing to worry, Nyom Cheav Villa at all aside of ones kusala citta that might have get lost and remember the useful and joyful aspects already done again and maintain them. "May those able rejoicing and make use of merits done here by me, get the full share of it. May all beings always give the causes to find the path to true happiness for themselves with ease." Metta that releases.

"The lose of a child" for one joyful accepting guests is not a matter of ones failure and at least one and the other would have not the most pleasant dwelling is the tendency and preferred food is not similar and desired.
Title: Re: Dukkha while doing merits
Post by: Cheav Villa on January 19, 2019, 09:47:24 PM
 _/\_  _/\_ _/\_
កូណាព្រះអង្គ នៅតែជាតណ្ហា ជាហេតុអោយកើតទុក្ខ​
កូណានឹងសូមហាត់ប្រាណ ឧបេក្ខា :-D​
_/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Title: Re: Dukkha while doing merits
Post by: Johann on January 19, 2019, 09:50:51 PM
When first things are done first..., yes.
Title: Re: Dukkha while doing merits
Post by: Johann on January 19, 2019, 10:09:58 PM
There is a really nice present given from one of the first members here, Nyom Cheav Villa, by a German Dhamma translator who died not so long ago, helping in understanding that the skill of Dana is not something for children in Dhamma but even the older often have problems if not mindful:

Paths to benevolence (http://sangham.net/index.php/topic,151.msg528.html#msg528)

/me : since it is, better was tradition in Cambodia to come in the evening before Uposatha into the monasty and spend the whole night with chanting, discussing the Dhamma, reading and meditation, it's a perfect night, tonight, reading and so on... tomorrow full moon Uposatha.
Title: Re: ទុខ​ពីបុញ្ញ?​ - Dukkha while doing merits?
Post by: Johann on January 20, 2019, 01:17:52 AM
And the benefit of "all" this worn out Dukkha:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

បណ្ឌិតទាំងឡាយ តែងសរសើរ​សេចក្ដី​មិនប្រមាទ​ក្នុង​បុញ្ញកិរិយា​វត្ថុ​ទាំងឡាយ បណ្ឌិត​មិន​ប្រមាទ​ហើយ រមែងបាន​ប្រយោជន៍ទាំង ២ គឺប្រយោជន៍ក្នុង​បច្ចុប្បន្ន ១ ប្រយោជន៍​ក្នុង​បរលោក១ អ្នកមាន​ប្រាជ្ញា ព្រោះបាន​ប្រយោជន៍​ទាំង២ ទើបហៅ​ថាជា​បណ្ឌិត។

"This one quality, if developed & pursued, keeps both kinds of benefit secure: benefits in this life & benefits in lives to come. Which one quality? Heedfulness with regard to skillful qualities. This is the one quality that, if developed & pursued, keeps both kinds of benefit secure: benefits in this life & benefits in lives to come."
Quote from: Iti 23, book 53 (http://sangham.net/index.php/topic,9084.msg17312/topicseen.html#new)

mudita
Title: Re: ទុខ​ពីបុញ្ញ?​ - Dukkha while doing merits?
Post by: Cheav Villa on January 20, 2019, 08:52:26 AM
 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Title: Re: ទុខ​ពីបុញ្ញ?​ - Dukkha while doing merits?
Post by: Johann on January 20, 2019, 04:04:04 PM
There is another teaching about where the homelessness within the frame of Sila and generosity actually starts (missing the foundation, it would seem very heartless, of course, but first things are done here already)

Quote from: Iti 80 (http://zugangzureinsicht.org/html/tipitaka/kn/iti/iti.3.050-099.than.html#iti-076)
[៨០] ខ្ញុំបានស្ដាប់មកថា ពាក្យនុ៎ះ ព្រះមានព្រះ​ភាគ ទ្រង់ត្រាស់​​ហើយ ព្រះអរហន្ត​សំដែង​ហើយ។ ម្នាល​ភិក្ខុ​ទាំងឡាយ អកុសលវិតក្កៈ នេះមាន ៣។ អកុសលវិតក្កៈ ៣ តើដូចម្ដេចខ្លះ។ គឺវិតក្កៈ​ដែល​ប្រកប​ដោយ​សេចក្ដី​ប្រាថ្នា មិនឲ្យ​អ្នកដទៃ​មើលងាយ​ខ្លួន ១ វិតក្កៈ​ដែល​ប្រកប​ដោយ​លាភសក្ការៈ និង​សេចក្ដី​សរសើរ ១ វិតក្កៈ​ដែល​ប្រកប​ដោយ​សេចក្ដី​អាណិត​បុគ្គលដទៃ ១។ ម្នាល​ភិក្ខុ​ទាំងឡាយ អកុសលវិតក្កៈ មាន ៣ នេះឯង។ លុះ​ព្រះមាន​ព្រះភាគ ទ្រង់​សំដែង​សេចក្ដីនុ៎ះ​ហើយ។ ទ្រង់ត្រាស់​គាថាព័ន្ធនេះ ក្នុងសូត្រនោះ ថា
បុគ្គលណាមួយ ប្រកបដោយសេចក្ដីប្រាថ្នា មិនឲ្យ​អ្នកដទៃ​មើល​ងាយ​ខ្លួន ជាអ្នក​ធ្ងន់ក្នុងលាភ និងសក្ការៈ មានសេចក្ដី​រីករាយ ជាមួយ​នឹងពួក​អាមាត្យ បុគ្គលនោះ ឈ្មោះថា ឆ្ងាយ​អំពីការអស់​ទៅ​នៃ​សំយោជនៈ។ បុគ្គលណា​មួយ ក្នុងលោកនេះ លះបង់​បុត្ត និង​ភរិយាផង លះបង់​សត្វចិញ្ចឹមផង លះបង់​សេចក្ដី​សង្រ្គោះ ក្នុង​វិវាហៈ​ផង ភិក្ខុប្រាកដ​ដូច្នោះ​នោះ​ គួរដើម្បី​បាននូវ​សម្ពោធិ​ដ៏​ឧត្តម។ សូត្រ ទី១។

This was said by the Blessed One, said by the Arahant, so I have heard: "There are these three kinds of unskillful thinking. Which three? Thinking concerned with not wanting to be despised; thinking concerned with gains, offerings, & tribute; thinking concerned with an empathy for others.[1] There are three kinds of unskillful thinking."

   Fettered
to not wanting to be despised;
to gains, offerings, respect;
to delight in companions:
   you're far from the ending of fetters.
But whoever here,
having abandoned
   sons,
   cattle,
   marriage,
   intimates:
      he's capable
      — a monk like this —
   of touching superlative
self-awakening.
 1.  According to the Commentary, this refers to a monk's tendency to be overly intimate with lay people, overly susceptible to the rises and falls in their fortunes, "happy when they are happy, sad when they are sad, busying himself with their affairs."
Title: Re: ទុខ​ពីបុញ្ញ?​ - Dukkha while doing merits?
Post by: Cheav Villa on January 20, 2019, 05:09:33 PM
 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
បពិត្រព្រះអង្គ​
បុគ្គលណា​មួយ ក្នុងលោកនេះ លះបង់​បុត្ត និង​ភរិយាផង លះបង់​សត្វចិញ្ចឹមផង លះបង់​សេចក្ដី​សង្រ្គោះ ក្នុង​វិវាហៈ​ផង
លះបង់ក្នុងទីនេះ សំដៅមិនជាប់ជំពាក់ចិត្ត​ គ្រាន់តែធ្វើតាមតួនាទី _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Title: Re: ទុខ​ពីបុញ្ញ?​ - Dukkha while doing merits?
Post by: Johann on January 20, 2019, 05:24:17 PM
That could be grasped wrong. What ever Puggala has mastered the path, has destroyed the roots of becoming, such person has no more duties in this world, no debts, and when acting supportive in what he can give, its simply pure compassion. That is why such persons are called Lord of compassion, Brah Karuna.
One having given up home and trade, takes on the task to follow the sages, also such a person is not bound of helping aside of some duties in the community of fellows. But a person dwelling at home, demands help of others, living in exchange, on trade: as long as having to share requires to do to be free from remorse and able to walk on in certain freedom.

One who (really) cares just for him/herselves, the Buddha told, is even praised by the Devas, since by practicing the path one helps all beings and one self.
Title: Re: ទុខ​ពីបុញ្ញ?​ - Dukkha while doing merits?
Post by: Cheav Villa on January 20, 2019, 05:43:50 PM
ព្រះករុណា​ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Title: Re: ទុខ​ពីបុញ្ញ?​ - Dukkha while doing merits?
Post by: Johann on January 20, 2019, 06:12:20 PM
Increasing the Silas to eight or even ten, if possible, while living outwardy in a householderlive, reduces this Dhukka from doing merits, the carring of sand up the hill, likewise strongly and leads to a modest and happy life, if based on right view.
Title: Re: ទុខ​ពីបុញ្ញ?​ - Dukkha while doing merits?
Post by: Johann on January 20, 2019, 06:30:20 PM
Does Nyom Cheav Villa know the Bambooactobat-sutta? It explains real helping very good and why one has lesser to no Dukkha with it.
Title: Re: ទុខ​ពីបុញ្ញ?​ - Dukkha while doing merits?
Post by: Cheav Villa on January 20, 2019, 07:00:40 PM
Bhante  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

[The Buddha said:]
Just like the assistant Medakathalika said to her master:
"I will look after myself,"
so should you, monks, practice the establishment of mindfulness.
You should (also) practice the establishment of mindfulness (by saying)
"I will look after others."

Looking after oneself, one looks after others.
Looking after others, one looks after oneself.

And how does one look after others by looking after oneself?
By practicing (mindfulness), by developing (it), by doing (it) a lot.
And how does one look after oneself by looking after others?
By patience, by non-harming, by loving kindness, by caring (for others).
(Thus) looking after oneself, one looks after others;
and looking after others, one looks after oneself.

karuṇā even saw double Dukkha, suffering one another suffering  _/\_

 *Looking after oneself, one looks after others.
Looking after others, one looks after oneself.*
Title: Re: ទុខ​ពីបុញ្ញ?​ - Dukkha while doing merits?
Post by: Johann on January 20, 2019, 07:27:20 PM
Bhante  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

[The Buddha said:]
Just like the assistant Medakathalika said to her master:
"I will look after myself,"
so should you, monks, practice the establishment of mindfulness.
You should (also) practice the establishment of mindfulness (by saying)
"I will look after others."

Looking after oneself, one looks after others.
Looking after others, one looks after oneself.

And how does one look after others by looking after oneself?
By practicing (mindfulness), by developing (it), by doing (it) a lot.
And how does one look after oneself by looking after others?
By patience, by non-harming, by loving kindness, by caring (for others).
(Thus) looking after oneself, one looks after others;
and looking after others, one looks after oneself.

google helps you...? ^-^

Quote
karuṇā even saw double Dukkha, suffering one another suffering  _/\_
mudita with this seeing.

Needed a little, here in Khmer:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

សេទកសុត្តំ

[៨១] សម័យមួយ ព្រះដ៏មានព្រះភាគ ទ្រង់គង់នៅក្នុងសេទកនិគម របស់ពួកសុម្ភជន ក្នុងសុម្ភជនបទ។ ក្នុងទីនោះ​ឯង ព្រះដ៏មានព្រះភាគ ទ្រង់​ត្រាស់នឹងភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយថា ម្នាលភិក្ខុ​ទាំងឡាយ រឿងធ្លាប់មានមកហើយ​ថា មានបុរស ជាធំក្នុងល្បែងរ៉ាវ [រ៉ាវក្នុងទីនេះ សំដៅយករ៉ាវ ដែលគេយកឫស្សី ១ ដើ​ម មកដាំបញ្ឈរ ហើយឲ្យមនុស្ស ដែលប៉ិនប្រសប់ ឡើង​ទៅ​ឈររាំ​លើ​ឫស្សី​នោះ មិនឲ្យធ្លាក់បាន រាំរួចហើយ ដល់វេលា​នឹងចុះមកវិញ ក៏ចុះយកក្បាល​មកក្រោម ជើង​ឡើងលើ ដរាបដល់មកផែនដី មិនឲ្យមានថ្លស់ការបាន។ (ល្បែងនេះ ជាទំនៀម​របស់អ្នក​ស្រុក អ្នកនគរ)។] ចណ្ឌាល លើកឡើងនូវរ៉ាវចណ្ឌាល ​ហើយ​ហៅកូនសិស្សឈ្មោះ មេទកថាលិកា ថា នែមេទកថាលិកាជាសំឡាញ់ អ្នកចូរមកឡើងកាន់រ៉ាវចណ្ឌាល ហើយឈរ នៅលើ-ក របស់យើងចុះ។ ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ ឯកូនសិស្សឈ្មោះ មេទកថាលិកា ទទួលស្តាប់ពាក្យ​បុរស ជាធំក្នុងល្បែងរ៉ាវចណ្ឌាលថា​ អើលោកអាចារ្យ ហើយ​ក៏ឡើង​កាន់​រ៉ាវចណ្ឌាល ឈរលើ-ក អាចារ្យ។ ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ គ្រានោះ បុរសជាធំ ​ក្នុងល្បែង​រ៉ាវ​ចណ្ឌាល ពោលទៅនឹងកូនសិស្ស ឈ្មោះមេទកថាលិកា ដូច្នេះ​ថា នែមេទកថាលិកាជាសំឡាញ់ អ្នក​ចូររក្សាយើង យើងនឹងរក្សាអ្នក កាល​បើយើងទាំងពីរនាក់ គ្រប់គ្រងគ្នានិងគ្នា រក្សាគ្នា​និងគ្នា យ៉ាងនេះហើយ  នឹង​សំដែងសិល្បៈផង នឹងបាននូវលាភផង នឹងបានចុះអំពីរ៉ាវចណ្ឌាល ដោយ​សួស្តីផង។

[៨២] ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ កាលបើបុរសជាធំ ក្នុងល្បែងរ៉ាវចណ្ឌាល ​ពោលយ៉ាងនេះ​ហើយ ឯកូនសិស្សឈ្មោះ មេទកថាលិកា ក៏ពោលតបទៅនឹង​បុរសជាធំ ក្នុង​ល្បែងរ៉ាវចណ្ឌាល ដូច្នេះថា បពិត្រលោកអាចារ្យ ហេតុនុ៎ះ មិន​ទំនងទេ បពិត្រលោកអាចារ្យ លោកចូររក្សាខ្លួន (លោក) ចុះ ខ្ញុំនឹងរក្សាខ្លួន (ខ្ញុំ) ដែរ កាលបើយើងទាំងពីរនាក់ បានគ្រប់គ្រងខ្លួន រក្សា​ខ្លួន យ៉ាងនេះហើយ នឹងបានសំដែងសិល្បៈផង នឹងបាននូវលាភផង នឹងបានចុះអំពីរ៉ាវចណ្ឌាល​ដោយ​សួស្តីផង។ នុ៎ះជាឧបាយ ក្នុងការរក្សាខ្លួននោះ។ កូនសិស្សឈ្មោះ​មេទកថាលិកា ពោលទៅនឹង​អាចារ្យ យ៉ាងណា ព្រះដ៏មានព្រះភាគ ក៏ទ្រង់​ត្រាស់នូវរឿងនុ៎ះ (យ៉ាងនោះដែរ)។ ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ (បើភិក្ខុគិត) ថា អាត្មាអញ នឹងរក្សាខ្លួន ត្រូវសេពសតិប្បដ្ឋាន (បើគិត) ថា អាត្មាអញ នឹងរក្សា​អ្នកដទៃ ក៏ត្រូវសេពសតិប្បដ្ឋានដែរ។ ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ ភិក្ខុ កាលរក្សាខ្លួន​ឈ្មោះថា រក្សាអ្នកដទៃ កាលរក្សាអ្នកដទៃ ឈ្មោះថា រក្សាខ្លួន។
[៨៣] ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ ចុះភិក្ខុ កាលរក្សាខ្លួន ឈ្មោះថា រក្សាអ្នក​ដទៃ តើដូចម្តេច។ គឺដោយការសេព (កម្មដ្ឋាន) ដោយការចំរើន ដោយអំពើ​ធ្វើ​រឿយៗ។ ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ ភិក្ខុ កាលរក្សាខ្លួន ឈ្មោះថា រក្សាអ្នកដទៃ យ៉ាងនេះឯង។

[៨៤] ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ ចុះភិក្ខុ កាលរក្សាអ្នកដទៃ ឈ្មោះថា រក្សា​ខ្នួន តើដូចម្តេច។ គឺ​ដោយអំណត់ ដោយសេចក្តីមិនបៀតបៀន ដោយមេត្តាចិត្ត ដោយសេចក្តីអាណិត។ ម្នាលភិក្ខុ​ទាំង​ឡាយ ភិក្ខុ កាលរក្សាអ្នកដទៃ ឈ្មោះ​ថា រក្សាខ្លួន យ៉ាងនេះឯង។
[៨៥] ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ (បើភិក្ខុគិត) ថា អាត្មាអញ នឹងរក្សាខ្លួន ត្រូវ​សេពសតិប្បដ្ឋាន (បើគិត) ថា អាត្មាអញ នឹងរក្សាអ្នកដទៃ ក៏ត្រូវសេព​សតិប្បដ្ឋានដែរ។ ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ ភិក្ខុ​កាលរក្សាខ្លួន ឈ្មោះថា រក្សាអ្នក​ដទៃ កាល​រក្សាអ្នកដទៃ ឈ្មោះថា រក្សាខ្លួន។
Quote from: SN 47.19 (http://zugangzureinsicht.org/html/tipitaka/sn/sn47/sn47.019.than_en.html)book 48, សំយុត្តនិកាយ មហាវារវគ្គ, សតិប្បដ្ឋានសំយុត្ត, នាឡន្ទវគ្គ
Title: Re: ទុខ​ពីបុញ្ញ?​ - Dukkha while doing merits?
Post by: Johann on January 20, 2019, 07:31:32 PM
/me : thats a typo? រក្សា​ខ្នួន, not? should be ខ្លួន, or?
Title: Re: ទុខ​ពីបុញ្ញ?​ - Dukkha while doing merits?
Post by: Cheav Villa on January 20, 2019, 07:38:22 PM
ព្រះអង្គ​ _/\_
រក្សាខ្លួន ឈ្មោះថា រក្សាអ្នក​ដទៃ កាល​រក្សាអ្នកដទៃ ឈ្មោះថា រក្សាខ្លួន​ ( ត្រូវ​សេពសតិប្បដ្ឋាន)​ គឺជាផ្លូវ​ _/\_
Title: Re: ទុខ​ពីបុញ្ញ?​ - Dukkha while doing merits?
Post by: Cheav Villa on January 20, 2019, 07:45:56 PM
Bhante  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

[The Buddha said:]
Just like the assistant Medakathalika said to her master:
"I will look after myself,"
so should you, monks, practice the establishment of mindfulness.
You should (also) practice the establishment of mindfulness (by saying)
"I will look after others."

Looking after oneself, one looks after others.
Looking after others, one looks after oneself.

And how does one look after others by looking after oneself?
By practicing (mindfulness), by developing (it), by doing (it) a lot.
And how does one look after oneself by looking after others?
By patience, by non-harming, by loving kindness, by caring (for others).
(Thus) looking after oneself, one looks after others;
and looking after others, one looks after oneself.

google helps you...? ^-^

Quote
karuṇā even saw double Dukkha, suffering one another suffering  _/\_
mudita with this seeing.

Needed a little, here in Khmer:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

សេទកសុត្តំ

[៨១] សម័យមួយ ព្រះដ៏មានព្រះភាគ ទ្រង់គង់នៅក្នុងសេទកនិគម របស់ពួកសុម្ភជន ក្នុងសុម្ភជនបទ។ ក្នុងទីនោះ​ឯង ព្រះដ៏មានព្រះភាគ ទ្រង់​ត្រាស់នឹងភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយថា ម្នាលភិក្ខុ​ទាំងឡាយ រឿងធ្លាប់មានមកហើយ​ថា មានបុរស ជាធំក្នុងល្បែងរ៉ាវ [រ៉ាវក្នុងទីនេះ សំដៅយករ៉ាវ ដែលគេយកឫស្សី ១ ដើ​ម មកដាំបញ្ឈរ ហើយឲ្យមនុស្ស ដែលប៉ិនប្រសប់ ឡើង​ទៅ​ឈររាំ​លើ​ឫស្សី​នោះ មិនឲ្យធ្លាក់បាន រាំរួចហើយ ដល់វេលា​នឹងចុះមកវិញ ក៏ចុះយកក្បាល​មកក្រោម ជើង​ឡើងលើ ដរាបដល់មកផែនដី មិនឲ្យមានថ្លស់ការបាន។ (ល្បែងនេះ ជាទំនៀម​របស់អ្នក​ស្រុក អ្នកនគរ)។] ចណ្ឌាល លើកឡើងនូវរ៉ាវចណ្ឌាល ​ហើយ​ហៅកូនសិស្សឈ្មោះ មេទកថាលិកា ថា នែមេទកថាលិកាជាសំឡាញ់ អ្នកចូរមកឡើងកាន់រ៉ាវចណ្ឌាល ហើយឈរ នៅលើ-ក របស់យើងចុះ។ ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ ឯកូនសិស្សឈ្មោះ មេទកថាលិកា ទទួលស្តាប់ពាក្យ​បុរស ជាធំក្នុងល្បែងរ៉ាវចណ្ឌាលថា​ អើលោកអាចារ្យ ហើយ​ក៏ឡើង​កាន់​រ៉ាវចណ្ឌាល ឈរលើ-ក អាចារ្យ។ ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ គ្រានោះ បុរសជាធំ ​ក្នុងល្បែង​រ៉ាវ​ចណ្ឌាល ពោលទៅនឹងកូនសិស្ស ឈ្មោះមេទកថាលិកា ដូច្នេះ​ថា នែមេទកថាលិកាជាសំឡាញ់ អ្នក​ចូររក្សាយើង យើងនឹងរក្សាអ្នក កាល​បើយើងទាំងពីរនាក់ គ្រប់គ្រងគ្នានិងគ្នា រក្សាគ្នា​និងគ្នា យ៉ាងនេះហើយ  នឹង​សំដែងសិល្បៈផង នឹងបាននូវលាភផង នឹងបានចុះអំពីរ៉ាវចណ្ឌាល ដោយ​សួស្តីផង។

[៨២] ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ កាលបើបុរសជាធំ ក្នុងល្បែងរ៉ាវចណ្ឌាល ​ពោលយ៉ាងនេះ​ហើយ ឯកូនសិស្សឈ្មោះ មេទកថាលិកា ក៏ពោលតបទៅនឹង​បុរសជាធំ ក្នុង​ល្បែងរ៉ាវចណ្ឌាល ដូច្នេះថា បពិត្រលោកអាចារ្យ ហេតុនុ៎ះ មិន​ទំនងទេ បពិត្រលោកអាចារ្យ លោកចូររក្សាខ្លួន (លោក) ចុះ ខ្ញុំនឹងរក្សាខ្លួន (ខ្ញុំ) ដែរ កាលបើយើងទាំងពីរនាក់ បានគ្រប់គ្រងខ្លួន រក្សា​ខ្លួន យ៉ាងនេះហើយ នឹងបានសំដែងសិល្បៈផង នឹងបាននូវលាភផង នឹងបានចុះអំពីរ៉ាវចណ្ឌាល​ដោយ​សួស្តីផង។ នុ៎ះជាឧបាយ ក្នុងការរក្សាខ្លួននោះ។ កូនសិស្សឈ្មោះ​មេទកថាលិកា ពោលទៅនឹង​អាចារ្យ យ៉ាងណា ព្រះដ៏មានព្រះភាគ ក៏ទ្រង់​ត្រាស់នូវរឿងនុ៎ះ (យ៉ាងនោះដែរ)។ ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ (បើភិក្ខុគិត) ថា អាត្មាអញ នឹងរក្សាខ្លួន ត្រូវសេពសតិប្បដ្ឋាន (បើគិត) ថា អាត្មាអញ នឹងរក្សា​អ្នកដទៃ ក៏ត្រូវសេពសតិប្បដ្ឋានដែរ។ ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ ភិក្ខុ កាលរក្សាខ្លួន​ឈ្មោះថា រក្សាអ្នកដទៃ កាលរក្សាអ្នកដទៃ ឈ្មោះថា រក្សាខ្លួន។
[៨៣] ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ ចុះភិក្ខុ កាលរក្សាខ្លួន ឈ្មោះថា រក្សាអ្នក​ដទៃ តើដូចម្តេច។ គឺដោយការសេព (កម្មដ្ឋាន) ដោយការចំរើន ដោយអំពើ​ធ្វើ​រឿយៗ។ ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ ភិក្ខុ កាលរក្សាខ្លួន ឈ្មោះថា រក្សាអ្នកដទៃ យ៉ាងនេះឯង។

[៨៤] ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ ចុះភិក្ខុ កាលរក្សាអ្នកដទៃ ឈ្មោះថា រក្សា​ខ្នួន តើដូចម្តេច។ គឺ​ដោយអំណត់ ដោយសេចក្តីមិនបៀតបៀន ដោយមេត្តាចិត្ត ដោយសេចក្តីអាណិត។ ម្នាលភិក្ខុ​ទាំង​ឡាយ ភិក្ខុ កាលរក្សាអ្នកដទៃ ឈ្មោះ​ថា រក្សាខ្លួន យ៉ាងនេះឯង។
[៨៥] ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ (បើភិក្ខុគិត) ថា អាត្មាអញ នឹងរក្សាខ្លួន ត្រូវ​សេពសតិប្បដ្ឋាន (បើគិត) ថា អាត្មាអញ នឹងរក្សាអ្នកដទៃ ក៏ត្រូវសេព​សតិប្បដ្ឋានដែរ។ ម្នាលភិក្ខុទាំងឡាយ ភិក្ខុ​កាលរក្សាខ្លួន ឈ្មោះថា រក្សាអ្នក​ដទៃ កាល​រក្សាអ្នកដទៃ ឈ្មោះថា រក្សាខ្លួន។
Quote from: SN 47.19 (http://zugangzureinsicht.org/html/tipitaka/sn/sn47/sn47.019.than_en.html)book 48, សំយុត្តនិកាយ មហាវារវគ្គ, សតិប្បដ្ឋានសំយុត្ត, នាឡន្ទវគ្គ

Karuṇā  _/\_
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn47/sn47.019.olen.html
Title: Re: ទុខ​ពីបុញ្ញ?​ - Dukkha while doing merits?
Post by: Johann on January 20, 2019, 07:55:01 PM
And what is metta for others in action? Sila.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn47/sn47.019.olen.html

if changing https://accesstoinsight.org to http://zugangzureinsicht.org/html and add _en before .html : http://zugangzureinsicht.org/html/tipitaka/sn/sn47/sn47.019.olen.html , it's a given one.

or just https to http and .org to .eu and no .html and sut/ after tipitaka and lang en/ before :
http://www.accesstoinsight.eu/en/tipitaka/sut/sn/sn47/sn47.019.olen its also given, and has search possibility, now a place for much "help" ot the fift right time, if remembering, the five right times for gifts/helping above duty in a certain relation (generosity).
Title: Re: ទុខ​ពីបុញ្ញ?​ - Dukkha while doing merits?
Post by: Johann on January 20, 2019, 08:00:35 PM
Medakathalika, btw., is a woman name "Frying Pan (http://zugangzureinsicht.org/html/tipitaka/sn/sn47/sn47.019.than_en.html)"
Title: Re: ទុខ​ពីបុញ្ញ?​ - Dukkha while doing merits?
Post by: Cheav Villa on January 20, 2019, 08:04:02 PM
Sādhu Silā   _/\_
Title: Re: ទុខ​ពីបុញ្ញ?​ - Dukkha while doing merits?
Post by: Johann on January 20, 2019, 08:12:04 PM
Very good reads to get the modern confusion about help, justice, right and wisdom de-veloped, are:

Wisdom over Justice (http://zugangzureinsicht.org/html/lib/authors/thanissaro/wisdomoverjustice_en.html)

and

Head & Heart Together: Bringing Wisdom to the Brahma-viharas (http://zugangzureinsicht.org/html/lib/authors/thanissaro/headandhearttogether/Section0011_en.html) in the essaycollection Head & Heart Together: Essays on the Buddhist Path (http://zugangzureinsicht.org/html/lib/authors/thanissaro/headandhearttogether/Section0000_en.html), by Bhante Thanissaro.

A real Dhammika will "love" it, and a not real possible awaken to the first stage.
Title: Re: ទុខ​ពីបុញ្ញ?​ - Dukkha while doing merits?
Post by: Cheav Villa on January 20, 2019, 10:57:10 PM
 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

* But it’s hard to feel equanimity when people you love are suffering. *


Title: Re: ទុខ​ពីបុញ្ញ?​ - Dukkha while doing merits?
Post by: Johann on January 21, 2019, 09:31:48 AM
Quote from: http://zugangzureinsicht.org/html/lib/authors/thanissaro/headandhearttogether/Section0011_en.html
The next two emotions in the list are essentially applications of goodwill. Compassion (karuṇā) is what goodwill feels when it encounters suffering: It wants the suffering to stop. Empathetic joy (muditā) is what goodwill feels when it encounters happiness: It wants the happiness to continue. Equanimity (upekkhā) is a different emotion, in that it acts as an aid to and a check on the other three. When you encounter suffering that you can’t stop no matter how hard you try, you need equanimity to avoid creating additional suffering and to channel your energies to areas where you can be of help. In this way, equanimity isn’t cold hearted or indifferent. It simply makes your goodwill more focused and effective.
Title: Re: ទុខ​ពីបុញ្ញ?​ - Dukkha while doing merits?
Post by: Johann on January 21, 2019, 09:36:48 AM
Quote
...Making these attitudes limitless requires work. It’s easy to feel goodwill, compassion, and empathetic joy for people you like and love, but there are bound to be people you dislike—often for very good reasons. Similarly, there are many people for whom it’s easy to feel equanimity: people you don’t know or don’t really care about. But it’s hard to feel equanimity when people you love are suffering. Yet if you want to develop the brahmavihāras, you have to include all of these people within the scope of your awareness so that you can apply the proper attitude no matter where or when. This is where your heart needs the help of your head.

All too often, meditators believe that if they can simply add a little more heart juice, a little more emotional oomph, to their brahmavihāra practice, their attitudes can become limitless. But if something inside you keeps churning up reasons for liking this person or hating that one, your practice starts feeling hypocritical. You wonder who you’re trying to fool. Or, after a month devoted to the practice, you still find yourself thinking black thoughts about people who cut you off in traffic—to say nothing of people who’ve done the world serious harm.

This is where the head comes in. If we think of the heart as the side of the mind that wants happiness, the head is the side that understands how cause and effect actually work. If your head and heart can learn to cooperate—that is, if your head can give priority to finding the causes for true happiness, and your heart can learn to embrace those causes—then the training of the mind can go far....

To possible work, taking worthy as object, rather to be always busy with ones thoughts and reasonings of kilesas.
Title: Re: ទុខ​ពីបុញ្ញ?​ - Dukkha while doing merits?
Post by: Cheav Villa on January 21, 2019, 10:14:38 AM
 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Title: Re: ទុខ​ពីបុញ្ញ?​ - Dukkha while doing merits?
Post by: Johann on January 21, 2019, 02:52:13 PM
Don't beings simply suffer because they make others or things their own? Or because taking form, feeling, fabrications, perception, cognition worthy to cling on when there would be something helpful to do or give?

Don't one do not always stop because changing the value of work and mine? When losing the certain kammathan, hobby, focus of mind, one get's right there lost, and the mind, like a cow is already in the neighbors field.
Title: Re: ទុខ​ពីបុញ្ញ?​ - Dukkha while doing merits?
Post by: Cheav Villa on January 21, 2019, 04:05:41 PM
 :D _/\_
Title: Re: ទុខ​ពីបុញ្ញ?​ - Dukkha while doing merits?
Post by: Johann on January 22, 2019, 03:57:22 AM
Upasaka Chrek B , Nyom Sophorn s father, had shared some words on 4 "different", better refined, kinds of helping, not excluding each other, here: សង្គហសិវៈបានំ Saŋgha seva pānaṁ (http://sangham.net/index.php/topic,9009.msg16891.html#msg16891)
Title: Re: ទុខ​ពីបុញ្ញ?​ - Dukkha while doing merits?
Post by: Cheav Villa on January 22, 2019, 07:19:37 AM
កូណាអរព្រះគុណព្រអង្គ  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_