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Title: [ati.eu] Romanization of Pali (Khmer etc.) script use
Post by: Johann on April 01, 2019, 03:06:47 PM
Atma is "happy" to came across a more suitable transliteration of Khmer, similar he had started here and on ati.eu before.

While "sadly" generally a certain Americanization or modernization of words are used, the etymological way, looking after Sanskrit and Pali spelling (i.e. Dhamma, Tipitaka) is in many ways and also  and especially for longer existence of right understanding surely better and it would be of course good if governmental institutions and school would also tend in that direction, but that is not "our" issue here, of course, and others choices.

Attached the so called ALA-LC Romanization Table (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanization_of_Khmer#ALA-LC_Romanization_Tables) which has been used similar also for the Pali (Khmer) Alphabets already like here: akkharakrama
If looking at Thai, for example, which is already very advanced in romanization, it's really "horrible" to find connections of words back to Pali and Sanskrit and therefore Thai words are like Khmer words often very Alien to those used to Pali, coming from a Dhammic side to the languages.

Possible good to produce a complete set in a ati-page for each scripts, focusing on Pali and correct some Sanskrit influences which could confuse.

If Nyom Admin (Dmytro) and Nyom Vorapol wish to assist here in other scripts, dedicated to the Tripple Gems here, feel given for such.
Title: Re: [ati.eu] Romanization of Pali (Khmer etc.) script use
Post by: Johann on April 01, 2019, 04:05:55 PM
Atma made a request about the possible use of the table:

Quote from: via contact form at https://www.copyright.gov/help/
Valued Gentleman and Ladies,

pardon the not invited approach and possible unusual request.

My person likes to ask whether the use and "build on" of the document https://www.loc.gov/catdir/cpso/romanization/khmer.pdf is welcome for the non-trading, non-in-exchange-for-worldly-gains usage of the monastic Sangha (community) of the Buddhas disciple?

May noboby feel unnecessary and unwelcome burdened or even urged by the request.

Best wishes for all your good undertakings and may fruits be always most visible enjoyed.

metta & mudita
Samana Johann
Title: Re: [ati.eu] Romanization of Pali (Khmer etc.) script use
Post by: Johann on April 09, 2019, 03:33:44 PM
Atma made a request about the possible use of the table:

Quote from: via contact form at https://www.copyright.gov/help/
Valued Gentleman and Ladies,

pardon the not invited approach and possible unusual request.

My person likes to ask whether the use and "build on" of the document https://www.loc.gov/catdir/cpso/romanization/khmer.pdf is welcome for the non-trading, non-in-exchange-for-worldly-gains usage of the monastic Sangha (community) of the Buddhas disciple?

May noboby feel unnecessary and unwelcome burdened or even urged by the request.

Best wishes for all your good undertakings and may fruits be always most visible enjoyed.

metta & mudita
Samana Johann

Quote from: answer via email, 4.4.2019
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Possible that my person is not capable to speak in certain spheres.
Title: Re: [ati.eu] Romanization of Pali (Khmer etc.) script use
Post by: Johann on May 22, 2019, 01:54:01 PM
Since Nyom Sophorn (Sobhaṇ(ḍa)) mentioned that being involved into Khmer-transliteration, maybe some suggestions at the beginning are useful, since especially in regard of Dhamma text, it would be not good to follow the "economical" flow, making it difficult in future to trace roots.

Usual transliterations, even of Pali, from what ever Asian country are really not very useful since most tend to international usuals. Especially if German or France back-ground, the Dhammic letters of Pali and Sanskrit to use are much easier to read as well. Not to speak when meeting Pali in Latin later or before.

My person does not know how much it would take to "simply" make a converting script for such. Nyom Moritz would possible know how much work such would take.
Title: Re: [ati.eu] Romanization of Pali (Khmer etc.) script use
Post by: Sophorn on May 22, 2019, 04:25:28 PM
 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

That has been the conflict between kana's father and kana since he is very correct, but when kana starts with the Latin transliteration there's always a discussion because of pronunciation and literation. At present kana tries to think of a way to convey the original... Which is quite a challenge. In how far should we stick or change?
The name Vichetr transliterated from Sanskrit/Pali... Looks funny, but the 'foot' r is there because the short a is at the end. And there are so many cases like that. Also, in New Khmer language a lot of demise started... Generally... Also in German. The question is in how far one wants to put up with wind against one?
Title: Re: [ati.eu] Romanization of Pali (Khmer etc.) script use
Post by: Johann on May 22, 2019, 05:17:19 PM
It's the reason why Dhamma lasted that long, Nyom Sophorn: because the disciples didn't follow the wind, and in cases of disputes the choice was made in direction more strict.

How long should the work last? If running after those who go astray, then it will be hard.

Did Nyom took a look at the attached pdf of the ALA-LC Romanization Table above?

As for the work itself, once a proper standard is chosen, as told, that could be managed by script, so a provider can focus on the origin script in Khmer and use a "simple" program to produce an output in roman script rather to invest much time in running after. The mentioned script seems to be readable for all, whether used to it or not and does not cut off the signs of the roots, and single words would be searchable in Dhammic spheres. Nobody would come to an idea that Puthy actually is Buddhi (if not knowing Khmer script of it and used to Pali), or Preah, Brah, Thoam Dhamm(a), Wat [lpiVatt(a)[/lpi]... Bojea pūjā.

Atma did not check it much in regard of Khmer, but a quick look on it seems that it is most useful, and prevents at least the spell importand consonants.


My person would have a hard to find out even the right speeling in Khmer, reading Vichetr, វិឆេតរ? or vicitra, eloquent  :) វិចិត្រ right?

V=B in sanskrit: ពិចិត្រ right, right?

Quote from: Chou Nat
សំ.; បា.(គុ.) (វិចិត្រ; វិចិត្ត ឬ វិចិត្រ ក៏​មាន​ខ្លះ ដោយ​យក សំ. មក​ប្រើ) ដែល​លាយ​ចម្រុះ ឬ​រំលេច​ព័ណ៌, ដែល​រំលេច​ឬ​ឆ្លាស់​ក្បាច់​រចនា; ដែល​ឆ្លុះ​ឆ្លាស់, ល្អ​ប្លែក; (ច្រើន​ប្រើ វិចិត្រ ជាង) : របស់​វិចិត្រ, ការ​វិចិត្រ, ក្បាច់​វិចិត្រ; ល្អ​វិចិត្រ ។ ប្រើ​ជា កិ. ក៏​បាន : ខំ​វិចិត្រ​ឲ្យ​ល្អ​ប្លែក ។ អាច​ប្រើ​ជា​បទ​សមាស​ដោយ​ផ្សំ​ជាមួយ​នឹង​សព្ទ​ដទៃ​បាន​តាម​ការ​គួរ​ដល់​ការ​ប្រកប​ប្រើ​ដូច​ជា វិចិត្ត​កម្ម, វិចិត្ត​ការ ឬ វិចិត្រ​ការ្យ, វិចិត្ត​ភណ្ឌ ។ល។ (ម. ព. ចិត្ត ឬ ចិត្រ ២ គុ. ឬ ន. ទៀត​ផង) ។

Quote from: Vicitta, https://dsalsrv04.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=Vicitta&searchhws=yes
1) Vicitta (p. 616) Vicitta Vicitta (& ˚citra) (adj.) [vi+citta1] various, variegated, coloured, ornamented, etc. J i.18, 83; Pv ii.19; Vv 6410 (citra); Miln 338, 349; VvA 2, 77; Sdhp 92, 245. -- vicitra -- kathika eloquent Miln 196.

Dictionary: kh-en for រចនឫ: "art, fine arts, artisticdecoration, proper arrangement or composition, p. to decorate artistically/properly, properly or artistically decorated"

Hardly woul someone not a little familar to all of the scripts and languages ever trace the right.

Could be also vi + jati, "cheat" (birth), cheta (leopard)