Virtual Dhamma-Vinaya Vihara

Vihara => Open Vihara - [Offenes Vihara] => Topic started by: Johann on November 21, 2019, 11:47:37 AM

Title: The eight "food-drinks" for sick consumeable at wrong time (pāna, បាន)
Post by: Johann on November 21, 2019, 11:47:37 AM
(Since the matter of allowed tonics an medicine practical always matters strongly in communities, between them, is field of many conflicts, faults, hindrances, it isn't a topic with should be left in grau areas at all)

The Mahāniddesa (http://accesstoinsight.eu/cs-rm/tipitaka/sut.kn.man.14), teaching said to be taught by Ven. Sariputa Thera, lists 8 "food-drinks" to be consume-able at wrong time, when sick (no allowance to store, but the opposite!)

The distinction:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

Pānānanti aṭṭha pānāni – ambapānaṃ, jambupānaṃ, cocapānaṃ (https://dsalsrv04.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=Coca&searchhws=yes) (manu say banana), mocapānaṃ, madhupānaṃ (honey drink) , muddikapānaṃ, sālukapānaṃ, phārusakapānaṃ.

Aparānipi aṭṭha pānāni – kosambapānaṃ ?, kolapānaṃ (drinks from kola fruit, similar coffee), badarapānaṃ, ghatapānaṃ, telapānaṃ (oily drinks), payopānaṃ, yāgupānaṃ (water from rice cooking), rasapānaṃ (flavored water).

Khādanīyānanti piṭṭhakhajjakaṃ [gross food], pūvakhajjakaṃ, mūlakhajjakaṃ, tacakhajjakaṃ, pattakhajjakaṃ, pupphakhajjakaṃ, phalakhajjakaṃ.
Quote from: http://accesstoinsight.eu/cs-rm/tipitaka/sut.kn.man.14#para_159

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

អដ្ឋ បានានិ – កោសម្ពបានំ, កោលបានំ, ពទរបានំ, ឃតបានំ, តេលបានំ, បយោបានំ, យាគុបានំ, រសបានំ។ ខាទនីយានន្តិ បិដ្ឋខជ្ជកំ, បូវខជ្ជកំ, មូលខជ្ជកំ, តចខជ្ជកំ, បត្តខជ្ជកំ, បុប្ផខជ្ជកំ, ផលខជ្ជកំ។ វត្ថានន្តិ ឆ ចីវរានិ – ខោមំ, កប្បាសិកំ, កោសេយ្យំ, កម្ពលំ,
Quote from: http://accesstoinsight.eu/cs-km/tipitaka/sut.kn.man.14#para_159

1. kosambapānaṃ, កោសម្ពបានំ
2. kolapānaṃ, កោលបានំ, kola, coffee-drinks, (certain energydrinks, cola)
3. badarapānaṃ, ពទរបានំ
4. ghatapānaṃ, ឃតបានំ
5. telapānaṃ, តេលបានំ,
6. payopānaṃ, បយោបានំ, milk-product-drinks, see here (http://sangham.net/index.php/topic,9522.msg20388.html#msg20388) in detail.
7. yāgupānaṃ, យាគុបានំ, filtered water from rice cooking, cooked water with flour.
8. rasapānaṃ, រសបានំ, sugar added and flavored water (most children drinks in bottles and cans)

/me : Would Nyom Cheav Villa be able to trace the translation of para 159 (http://accesstoinsight.eu/cs-km/tipitaka/sut.kn.man.14#para_159) in the Khmer translation found in Book 064, since different paragraph no. and no headers? No hurry or strong need at all, please.
Title: Re: The eight "food-drinks" for sick consumeable at wrong time (pāna, បាន)
Post by: Cheav Villa on November 21, 2019, 12:35:05 PM
Kana Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Title: Re: The eight "food-drinks" for sick consumeable at wrong time (pāna, បាន)
Post by: Cheav Villa on November 26, 2019, 08:48:25 PM
Vandami Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

I Kana read briefly and the content of the book-64 seems did  not had something matched to para 159.

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Title: Re: The eight "food-drinks" for sick consumeable at wrong time (pāna, បាន)
Post by: Johann on November 26, 2019, 09:11:11 PM
Sadhu. My person wondered, because searched all possible words... How ever, his mistake, now looking further, and find the Mahanidesa goes over 3 book and Chapter 14 will be found in book 66 of which there is no doc-file yet given. So to find possible at (download, Bhikkuni-pdf) Tipitaka_066_sut_cun1_០៦៦_ខុទ្ទកនិកាយ-១៥_orig.pdf (http://sangham.net/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=get646)
Title: Re: The eight "food-drinks" for sick consumeable at wrong time (pāna, បាន)
Post by: Cheav Villa on November 26, 2019, 09:13:37 PM
Kana Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Title: Re: The eight "food-drinks" for sick consumeable at wrong time (pāna, បាន)
Post by: Cheav Villa on December 04, 2019, 08:04:04 AM
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I kana find nothing about the eight food-drink in Tipitaka 66 
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Title: Re: The eight "food-drinks" for sick consumeable at wrong time (pāna, បាន)
Post by: Johann on December 04, 2019, 09:18:37 AM
If Atma saw right, the passage might be found at page 61, para 44 (physical Book. Right?
Title: Re: The eight "food-drinks" for sick consumeable at wrong time (pāna, បាន)
Post by: Cheav Villa on December 04, 2019, 10:28:04 AM
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Kana Bhate Pge61 para44.

 :D _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Title: Re: The eight "food-drinks" for sick consumeable at wrong time (pāna, បាន)
Post by: Johann on December 04, 2019, 05:37:58 PM
Maybe Nyom likes to help with translation and to identify the different fruits, mentioned at least in the Khmer translation (a little hard especially because not really digital).
Title: Re: The eight "food-drinks" for sick consumeable at wrong time (pāna, បាន)
Post by: Johann on December 04, 2019, 06:24:25 PM
1. kosambapānaṃ, កោសម្ពបានំ , ទឹក សង្ឃ័រ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jujube ? => semms to be more reasonable (as also juices are made) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garcinia_indica (khmer?)
2. kolapānaṃ, កោលបានំ (kola (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kola_nut)), ទឹក ពុទ្រាតូច => seems to denote 1. again (small Jujube), but kola seems to be clear (also from other suttas)?
3. badarapānaṃ, ពទរបានំ ទឹក ពុទ្រាធំ (big Jujube)
4. ghatapānaṃ, ឃតបានំ ទឹក ដោះថ្លា (clear milk)
5. telapānaṃ, តេលបានំ ទឹក គឺប្រេេង (from/with oil)
6. payopānaṃ, បយោបានំ ទឹក បបរ (water from rice-gruel)
7. yāgupānaṃ, យាគុបានំ ទឹក ដោះស្រស់ (dry milk)
8. rasapānaṃ, រសបានំ ទឹក រស (from leaves => tee...)

The translation seems at least also mixed, not in order. 6. <=> 7.
Title: Re: The eight "food-drinks" for sick consumeable at wrong time (pāna, បាន)
Post by: Cheav Villa on December 04, 2019, 06:57:50 PM
Maybe Nyom likes to help with translation and to identify the different fruits, mentioned at least in the Khmer translation (a little hard especially because not really digital).

ថ្វាយបង្គំ ព្រះអង្គ  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

កូណារកឃើញក្នុង Wiki Pedia

https://km.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/ទឹកបាន

1.កោសម្ពបានំ ទឹកបាន(ដែលគេធ្វើដោយ)ផ្លែសង្ឃ័រ១

2.កោលបានំ ទឹកបានផ្លែពុទ្រាតូច១

3.ពទរបានំ ទឹកបានផ្លែពុទ្រាធំ១

4.ឃតបានំ ទឹកបានធ្វើដោយទឹកដោះរាវឬទឹកដោះថ្លា១

5.តេលបានំ ទឹកបានធ្វើដោយប្រេងមានប្រេងល្ងជាដើម១

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/me : ព្រះអង្គបានរកឃើញមុន ខ្ញុំកូណា :) _/\_ _/\_ _/\_



Title: Re: The eight "food-drinks" for sick consumeable at wrong time (pāna, បាន)
Post by: Johann on December 04, 2019, 07:33:29 PM
Sadhu

All less reasonable in this translation... (see below) What is សង្ឃ័រ, as it seems to be the only usefull (Atma thinks: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garcinia_indica but not sure)

/me : The Khmer wiki stuff is even more worse... (carried together with no references, taken from?...) It always reminds on Kula Sutta (http://zugangzureinsicht.org/html/tipitaka/an/an04/an04.255.than_en.html). And "modern Buddhist" are even leader in this sphere. "anicca"... but now let us eat first.
Title: Re: The eight "food-drinks" for sick consumeable at wrong time (pāna, បាន)
Post by: Cheav Villa on December 04, 2019, 07:40:13 PM
 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
តាមវចនានុក្រម ជួន ណាត

សង្ឃ័រ នាមសព្ទ
ឈើតូចមួយប្រភេទ មានបន្លាខុបៗ ផ្លែតូចៗវេលាទុំ ឡើងសម្បុរក្រមៅ មានរសជូរអែម បរិភោគបាន
ផ្លែសង្ឃ័រទុំ គេអាចទុកបានយូរថ្ងៃ ។

ខ្ញុំកូណារកឃើញមាន ក្មុងANT រុក្ខជាតិឱសថកម្ពុជា
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Title: Re: The eight "food-drinks" for sick consumeable at wrong time (pāna, បាន)
Post by: Johann on December 04, 2019, 08:15:10 PM
Does Nyom know this fruit and does anybody makes juice from it usually?
Title: Re: The eight "food-drinks" for sick consumeable at wrong time (pāna, បាន)
Post by: Cheav Villa on December 04, 2019, 08:31:18 PM
 
I Kana never heard of this fruit before but in the pic the plant look similar khmer jujube tree.

The link of Rhammanceae (Also similar plants)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhamnaceae

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Title: Re: The eight "food-drinks" for sick consumeable at wrong time (pāna, បាន)
Post by: Johann on December 04, 2019, 08:51:21 PM
Sadhu

and 2. and 3. are the same species then again... ? Or what fruits are known as ពុទ្រាតូច ផ្លែពុទ្រាធំ in Khmer? It (all three, follow the Khmer translation, probably parts backtranslated from Thai again) doesn't seems to be a fruit people usually make drinks from.

/me : this ANT-app seems to have made use of the ministry of health "Cambodian medical plants" book... available via google-play  ^-^
Title: Re: The eight "food-drinks" for sick consumeable at wrong time (pāna, បាន)
Post by: Cheav Villa on December 04, 2019, 09:11:18 PM
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Please Bhante,  apologize i kana reset google playstore for furture updates somes like banks accts, telegram for office goverment, and... (Bond to current livinghood)


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Title: Re: The eight "food-drinks" for sick consumeable at wrong time (pāna, បាន)
Post by: Johann on December 04, 2019, 09:17:50 PM
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Please Bhante,  apologize i kana reset google playstore for furture updates somes like banks accts, telegram for office goverment, and...


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/me : Oh no, nothing to pardon for, but opposit! Nyom depends on it. So far nothing wrong at all for her to make use of that dependency. Just a remark. Please not understanding wrong. Was just another pointer how things are pulled off, step by step, and not to thought being avaliable for monks, in proper way, any more.
Title: Re: The eight "food-drinks" for sick consumeable at wrong time (pāna, បាន)
Post by: Cheav Villa on December 04, 2019, 09:25:08 PM
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