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Vihara => Open Vihara - [Offenes Vihara] => Topic started by: Cheav Villa on January 04, 2020, 03:10:28 PM

Title: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Cheav Villa on January 04, 2020, 03:10:28 PM

Aramika   *

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The new topic (or post/s) here are originaly from [km] Evening chanting Dhammayutta Nikaya Khmer - វិធីថ្វាយបង្គំព្រះ បាលី-ប្រែ (http://sangham.net/index.php?topic=9623.0). For eventual additionally information: please visit also the Topic of origin. Anumodana!

[Original post:]


 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

I kana could upload from http://sangham.net/index.php?topic=9620.msg21157#msg21157
Title: Re: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Johann on January 04, 2020, 03:13:39 PM
Or Bhante Indannano could ask for a digital text version.
Title: Re: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Cheav Villa on January 04, 2020, 10:02:30 PM
Kana Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

I kana had done 3pages and stopped upload. May Bhante apologize _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Title: Re: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Johann on January 04, 2020, 10:08:04 PM
Sadhu, Sadhu (what should there be apologized?)

(They are btw, just thought as a transcription help and temporay)
Title: Re: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Cheav Villa on January 04, 2020, 10:14:00 PM
 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

Because I Kana upload without the permissin.

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Title: Re: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Johann on January 04, 2020, 10:17:01 PM
Sadhu for concern.

Isn't it not common to make picures of books (of Dhammadana) and share them?
Title: Re: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Cheav Villa on January 04, 2020, 10:21:18 PM
Kana, Just about the permission of the Sangha.  :) _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Title: Re: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Johann on January 04, 2020, 10:26:15 PM
Aren't they used to share pictures everywhere? Messanger, FB, 5000years...
Title: Re: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Cheav Villa on January 04, 2020, 10:34:50 PM
In the Sangha domain, i kana should get the permission first  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Title: Re: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Johann on January 04, 2020, 10:38:57 PM
And if there is nobody in charge (yet sharing himself at the same time)?
Title: Re: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Cheav Villa on January 04, 2020, 10:41:21 PM
 :D _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Title: Re: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Johann on January 04, 2020, 10:44:26 PM
Let my person ask different: Wherefrom, from whom, did Nyom become the Book?
Title: Re: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Cheav Villa on January 04, 2020, 10:57:05 PM
Kana not sure, but often took the book from my parents home.  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Title: Re: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Johann on January 04, 2020, 11:12:07 PM
It's strong possible that it has been given direct or indirect by the Sangha, Dhammayut Nikaya, or?

So, and Nyom had just before given pictures to whom, with whom in the mind?
Title: Re: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Cheav Villa on January 04, 2020, 11:27:01 PM
Kana did not know where my parents got this book, but All the tree family lead by Um than as he
told to rejoice in do merit and follow Dhammyut as well as the proper Dhamma.
Kana was intent given picture to the Sangha.

 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Title: Re: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Johann on January 04, 2020, 11:34:53 PM
To give - what one holds - to the Sangha is high meritious or? Does Nyom still see a fault in giving given Dhamma "back" to the Sangha, to object a share for the Sangha of it?

Supposed there where a person who had stolen books from a monastery, or put Dhamma under his ownership. Then one day, inspired, would give the Dhamma he had occupied to the Sangha. What does Nyom think, is the action of giving the Dhamma to the Sangha (back) of great merits?

Title: Re: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Cheav Villa on January 04, 2020, 11:47:37 PM
Kana did not understand ^-^ _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Kana just think of would put the Dhamma book on the Proper time.

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Title: Re: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Johann on January 04, 2020, 11:50:51 PM
It's late. Good if reading the last post tomorrow Nyom.
Title: Re: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Cheav Villa on January 04, 2020, 11:52:15 PM
 Kana Bhante_/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Title: Re: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Cheav Villa on January 05, 2020, 12:22:31 AM
Kana Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

In the case kana parents passed away i kana not know exactly where from or whom..
But surely the Dhamma book was not stolen. Just not sure he bought,
or given by someone..  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Title: Re: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Johann on January 05, 2020, 12:38:58 AM
Ohh... why that overthinking? Nyoms case is clear here: just simple great merits done before her, and nothing wrong.

But now again: Supposed there where a person (who ever) who had stolen books from a monastery, or put Dhamma under his ownership before. Then, one day, inspired, would give the Dhamma-books, or rights, he had occupied, (back) to the Sangha. What does Nyom think, is the action of giving the Dhamma to the Sangha (back) of great merits?

Or a similar simile:
Supposed there is a person who kills a chicken for his meal. As he starts to prepare for eating a monk on alms come his way. Inspired, the person gives the chicken he just liked to eat the monk.
What does Nyom think: Is the deed of iving the chicken the monk to eat of great merits?

Audio in khmer
Title: Re: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Cheav Villa on January 05, 2020, 08:46:10 AM
Kana Bhante  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

In the action of Someone who had stolen sth or kills.. both are bad Kamma.

Then later he was generous given back the book or chichen for eaten a monk, in every moment
of inspired giving toward the Sangha still cause of the great merit.

 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Title: Re: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Johann on January 05, 2020, 08:50:17 AM
Good.

And supposed there is a person who knows good and bad, thinking "I will kill a chicken for the Sangha, the merits gained are by far more then the demeritd", gives that chicken to a monk, thinking he will make much merits.
What does Nyom think, did he make merits?
Title: Re: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Cheav Villa on January 05, 2020, 10:00:23 AM
Kana Bhante  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

Depend on intention first, intention for make merit.
If he killed a checken for the Sangha he had bad intention first for make merit(ហេតុ) , 
so the action not became the merit(ផល).

 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Title: Re: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Johann on January 05, 2020, 10:12:06 AM
Yes, Nyom Cheav Villa . What ever unskillful done for whom ever, still stays unskillful! Doing wrong for your mother, father, the King, the Buddha... your self, still drives one into hell. For it is not having abound doing wrong and holding wrong views.

As for a person calling himself a follower of the Buddha and doing wrong for the Tripple Gems, such is not only grave wrong view but fourfold wrong.

And because it is fourfold wrong: If a monk had seen, heard or thinks that it was based on wrongdoing for a monk, he isn't allowed to receive the gift.

As when it is a person not instructed at all, not knowing the Dhamma, if doing bad for a good, such is called mixed kamma.

Taking (unskillful, unlawful, harmful) to give is always wrong view and not what the Buddha taught, but leads upwardly.
Title: Re: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Johann on January 05, 2020, 10:27:21 AM
And what is the fourth kamma, that works for ending of kamma?

There is the case where a disciple of the Noble Ones discerns: "The Buddha has declare that taking what is not given is wrong and leads to hell". I too had taken what is not given, and this was not good. So he stops taking of what is not given and resolves no more to do. Right here old kamma ends and no new kamma comes into existence.

There is the case where a person had taken Dhamma which hasn't been given by the owner. He had amassed it and but it under his or other domain. One day he reminds that taking what is not given leads downward. He stops, pardons, gives it back and resolves no more to take Dhamma that isn't given or make improper use. Right here his old kamma ends and no more new comes into existence.

This teachings of the Buddha aren't the doctrine of the Jains. "Papa and Punja have to go with each other.", although a beloved saying, it's the ideas of the Jain.

Sankha Sutta: The Conch Trumpet (http://accesstoinsight.eu/en/tipitaka/sut/sn/sn42/sn42.008.than)
Title: Re: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Cheav Villa on January 05, 2020, 11:19:43 AM
 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

Kana still not understand well...would call that a stolen just took the
Daddy book which he opened for a whole family to read or some could take as personally..
but whatever not sure to do kana would stop the action now.

 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Title: Re: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Johann on January 05, 2020, 11:49:09 AM
Again Nyom, and it's good to ask to get 100% clear, since acting on doubt is akusala in any case (defuse, moha).

If one has gained possession on something, hold something as own, perceives it as own, yet gives it as gift, such is kusala.

If one does not own something, perceives it as somebody else, when taking on it without being given, that is taken what is not given, such is akusala.

And it would be still akusala if thinking "I take what is not given to give".

But yes, and that is why Atma nevertheless talks on. Doing something based on doubt is also akusala.

So again: Nyoms parents have died. They left their things behind for their children. Has Nyom any clear perception that the book was unrightly obtained by her parents. Is the book now Nyoms book? And does she not actually perceive "this has been given by the goodness of the Sangha, has been given by the goodness of my parents"?
Title: Re: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Cheav Villa on January 05, 2020, 12:10:35 PM
Kana Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

Because of not sure (even i kana father known as always rejoice to sharea merit in general not only the Sangha,
People, animal..)
Althought just found he might receive the book from Wat Toul Sophea Khoun.

I kana would stop now.

[img]
user:cheav_villa:img20200105120025.jpg

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Title: Re: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Cheav Villa on January 05, 2020, 12:19:38 PM
 O0 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
I kana Just remind(but still not sure)  someday kana Mother gave me this book told
kana should read/remember it first not just only read the tapitaka or
another higher... ( kana left this book on the table, just look at it from last year to read
 the metta chanting..

 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Title: Re: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Johann on January 05, 2020, 01:56:45 PM
Kana Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

Because of not sure (even i kana father known as always rejoice to sharea merit in general not only the Sangha,
People, animal..)
Althought just found he might receive the book from Wat Toul Sophea Khoun.

I kana would stop now.

 _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

Nyom. If having got Dhamma once by the Sangha, or obtained it, it's given. Now when Nyom sees that the Sangha or it's follower have no copy, have bad copies, need a lot of energy to take it, don't Nyom think that to share it, modify it, so that it is not so harmful, and to engage in it, isn't of great merits?

For example, at Wat Akyum there is only one old copy. Not easy to be ever understood by disciples form outward.

A picture of a page has about 2.000.000B, if text it has about 5.000B. To store, download... requires 400 times more money=burning=life=harm.
Making books, printing books, requires to cut forest, since paper is made from wood and it involves a lot of pollution of water, nobody care here about.
Doesn't Nyom think that engaging to bring pictures into letters is of great support, not to think about easy to search and reproduce?

Isn't it because there had been people who tried to share the Dhamma to those who are ready for it, so that Nyom could ever receive it?
And if there would be no real giver or a matter to buy, would there right view arise?
Title: Re: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Johann on January 05, 2020, 02:08:36 PM
O0 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
I kana Just remind(but still not sure)  someday kana Mother gave me this book told
kana should read/remember it first not just only read the tapitaka or
another higher... ( kana left this book on the table, just look at it from last year to read
 the metta chanting..

 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

That was wise, since to receive the Dhamma really, that one can see it right: Generosity, Respect, Confidence and Patient (http://zugangzureinsicht.org/html/lib/authors/thanissaro/respectconfidencepatient_en.html) is required.

A person who would just consume, would just increase debts by amass and not understand. But one who simply assists faithfully, has no own interest in gain, gains real understanding by its own. My person hasn't learned or read a single page of Dhamma before he hasn't not shared it and after there was no desire and need to ever read it again. All he knows is just by practicing.
Title: Re: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Cheav Villa on January 05, 2020, 05:10:09 PM
Kana Bhante _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

Because of not sure (even i kana father known as always rejoice to sharea merit in general not only the Sangha,
People, animal..)
Althought just found he might receive the book from Wat Toul Sophea Khoun.

I kana would stop now.

 _/\_  _/\_ _/\_

Nyom. If having got Dhamma once by the Sangha, or obtained it, it's given. Now when Nyom sees that the Sangha or it's follower have no copy, have bad copies, need a lot of energy to take it, don't Nyom think that to share it, modify it, so that it is not so harmful, and to engage in it, isn't of great merits?

For example, at Wat Akyum there is only one old copy. Not easy to be ever understood by disciples form outward.

A picture of a page has about 2.000.000B, if text it has about 5.000B. To store, download... requires 400 times more money=burning=life=harm.
Making books, printing books, requires to cut forest, since paper is made from wood and it involves a lot of pollution of water, nobody care here about.
Doesn't Nyom think that engaging to bring pictures into letters is of great support, not to think about easy to search and reproduce?

Isn't it because there had been people who tried to share the Dhamma to those who are ready for it, so that Nyom could ever receive it?
And if there would be no real giver or a matter to buy, would there right view arise?

Kana Bhante   _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
There would be great to use picture of the old one
at Wat Akyum. Avoid of doutbt, be free from all suffering later.  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Title: Re: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Johann on January 05, 2020, 05:24:27 PM
From experiences: the most books printed after the war are 1. made by lay people and 2. have a lot of errors. But that is just a side things, since prove-read by the Sangha, at least a knowledgable Bhikkhu is anyhow objected.

Wat Akyum had a new version as well, at the time Atma dwelled there. But the only it was always lost somehwere and Cambodian Monks do not really care about books or maintain them at large but are used to feed Dana of any kind of.

That's the reason of poorness... combined with new dependency on facebook and google, buiding Nissaya to anything else but not the Sangha.

At least, again, the pictures are only required, since my person thinks that final transcripts will not be done and having at least this copy, my person would be able to continue to write also in Khmer, translate passages missing in English and transliterate khmer to roman pali.

No ask or requirement if in doubts anyway, since such isn't inspiring. And no demands at all. It was just to make kusala and akusala more understandable, but often difficult is not so mindful or thinking on such as objective good or bad outwardly.
Title: Re: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Cheav Villa on January 05, 2020, 08:00:28 PM
So I kana could upload the pictures :D _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Title: Re: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Johann on January 05, 2020, 08:20:37 PM
Sure. How ever she feels inspired, what ever she likes to give into the tripple Gems, she can also finish the typing, keeping them in mind.
Title: Re: On giving Dhamma (back) to the heir and owner, the Sangha
Post by: Cheav Villa on January 05, 2020, 10:28:18 PM
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