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Author Topic: [En] Karma and Gratitude, Bhante Thanissaro  (Read 700 times)

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Offline Johann

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[En] Karma and Gratitude, Bhante Thanissaro
« on: July 13, 2017, 02:51:40 PM »
Karma & Gratitude

eveningtalk, given by Ven. Thanissaro Bhikkhu at Wat Metta

9.June 2017/2561

~14 min., 7,6 MB

Generously shared via dhammatalks.org


Download: http://sangham.net/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=get515
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline Sophorn

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Re: [En] Karma and Gratitude, Bhante Thanissaro
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2017, 06:15:49 PM »
 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
Karma and Gratitude
A Dhammatalk given by Bhante Thanissaro

When the Buddha talks about gratitude he does so on the context of the teaching on karma and rebirth. And it's worth thinking of the implications of that are: when he's talking about mondial in review.
That there are good and bad actions, and these actions have results. (But) in this lifetime onto the next. He mentions as just in phrase: There is mother and father, which seems almost too obvious to say. We all have mothers and fathers. But when he meant them in the context in the time was that you owe them gratitude to, and it's because of the nature of karma that you do.
There are people who thought that whatever people do is totally influenced or totally determined by say, the stars or some creator, God, by their ___ , in other words, people don't have choices. It's when yor parents told you that they had no choice, no matter. When they raised you they had no choice, no matter. It's just what they had to do. And so there is no special effect of gratitude there. It's just influences from the stars or influences from whatever else acting through them.
But the Buddhist teaching on karma has several features that make gratitude an appropriate response. One is that we have freedom of choice. Our actions are real. And they come from our intentions and we have a choice on what choice of intentions we have to act on.
So when someone does anything good to you, it does have a meaning. It was a choice. Even if they had to go out of their way, if they had to make sacrifices - it's worth your gratitude.

(But) the word for gratitude in Pali (is) "kataññū" contains the root "kata". "Kata" comes from the word "to do". You literally know and appreciate what has been done. This is why gratitude is different from general appreciation. We can appreciate the trees, we can appreciate the weather right now. It's making it easy to practise. But there's noone doing that.

We want to argue a creator, God, is doing that: Why is it more difficult for a God to do things pleasantly than unpleasantly? But the Buddha's teachings are just the way things are in terms of the way it rather works, the way plans work. They have no decisions in no matter. And it's when people make the decision to be on a parade and do something good. That requires special response on your part, both for the person who is good to you. You want to repay that goodness. And also fo your own realization that other peole may benefit from your going on of your way for them, unless you want to spread goodnes around. This kind of reflection opens your heart, widens your heart, makes you more likely who want to go out of your way.

There is a sentence, I'm not sure if it's Thai or is it in the Pali Canon: "Gratitude is a sign of a good person." It is chipped out for this reason. If someone appreciates the goodness of other people done and demand that they had to go out of their way. There where all kinds of difficulties. That makes it more likely that they themselves will be willing to go out of their way to be helpful, to be good.

(4:00) There is a case here as "Bheagwa"… The family lived down there from the monastery. They had a big ruckus one night. The son from the father's previous marriage came back. He was an adult now. They had a huge argument. The father It came to huge aguments with his Father. (He) kicked him downstairs, (and) broke both his legs. When the news came to the monastery Ajahn Fuang's first comment was: "You can never trust that son. If he was willing to do this to his father, he wil do it with anybody."
So, gratitude is a sign of a good person. And it is an attitude that gives rise to more goodness within us.

(4:40) In particular, what the Buddha talks about the debt we have to our parents, because, after all, our lives, we have our body because of them. Even if they weren't the best parents, at least, we have this human life, and this particular body right now, so they have particularly deserving the feeling of gratitude. Now the Buddha said the best way to repay that is: If they are stingy people you try them to be generous. If they are not virtuous you try teach them to be virtuous. In other words, whatever goodness they are not alike you try to influence them some in that direction. And, of course, you know how hard it to teach your parents. You have to be really subtle and very wise in how you do that. But it i possible. I have seen cases. They'll reflect further on that. The Buddha's teachings on parents is… There is that statement you will never meet - or it will be very hard to meet someone who hasn't been your mother or father in the past. Now some people take that and say that means you should feel affectionate to everybody because they have been your parent, one or another.
But the Buddha takes it into a different direction: He says you give rise in a sense of dismay. All these times you have been parents and all the times, all these parents you've been parents to somebody else. That's back and forth, back and forth, back and forth like this, and we know that's like between children and parents.

This also fits into the teaching of karma: There's straight clear karma and there's dark karma. Clear karma crosses good karma and dharma with good intentions and dark karma, dharma with bad intentions mixed; and then, there is a karma that leads away from karma, leads to an end of karma. And you look at the karma we have with everyone around us. We've had - who knows how long - and it's going to be a real mixture: clear and dark.

And what your parents want: satisfactory. And then, you've been a parent sometimes and, of course, what you do besides satisfactory to your children, too, and so karma goes back and forth, between clear and dark, clear and dark.
(7.12) It never gets anywhere, unless you decide to get out. So it's another good reflection. One of the best you can do to the whole mass of people who - all these people who've been your parents and all the people who you've been parents of in the past. It's just: get out of the system. That's what we're doing as we meditate. That's why the reflection on gratitude is one useful way of getting the mind to be willing to settle down in the present moment, realizing "This is the way, as the Buddha said, that's karma but leads to the end of karma. All the entanglement ___ was karma. So, at ___?

This is the first semon of the Eight Noble Truths. Everythi from right view onto right concentration. That's the karma that leads to the end of karma. So, it's working on concentration, in other words, basically right now it's right effort, right mindfulness,right concentration altogether. It's what we're trying to develop. That's part of this karma that gets us out of this tangle. And give the best possible way of repaying the people that we've been so immediately connected with before. We can dedicate to give goodness to them. If the appreciate it, they will benefit.
So you take your mind around the world, take your mind around a huge span of time, and then you zero when on the present moment, because the present moment is the way out.

(8:56) This is the same pattern that the Buddha thought the night he was awakening. His first knowledge was about time and how far it goes back. And all the narratives of his life. If you think you had narratives, sit down here. The Buddha has thousands of thousands of them. Thus, having so many that it got reduced to the bare essentials: This is what he looked like, what his name was or what he was called. This is experience of pleasure and pain. This is what he ate and this is how he died. That's life. Five sentences. No one after the another. ___ that you're pretty tying up in the narratives. The next question is: Does everybody else is following this pattern, too?

(9.42) The second knowledge is awareness spread to fill the entire universe. You realize that everybody goes through that process and then seeing that, in fact, everybody went through this process, he also thought: What drove it? Basically, it was intentions. And intentions were skillful or unskillful depending whether they were based on right view or wrong view.
So, the third question was what kind of intentions lead out? That's when he gained the knowledge that he was awakening. So, sometimes, you just sit down to meditate. It's good to think about past expenses of time, past expenses of the universe to see the common patterns and then realize that the common patterns are generated here in your mind in the present moment.

(10.31) Which is why we're working right here. The working on your mind here and working on your intentions trying to get some control of your intentions as a gift to yourself and the people around you. That is one of the good things that the Buddha talks about, merit. It's basically instructions how to find happiness and the engagement of the world in a way that doesn't cause any suffering, that doesn't cause any harm to anybody. In other words, happiness spreads around. And meditation is one of those activities where the happiness, where the goodness spreads around.This is most clearly if you've been meditating and the mind is filled with anger before the time to meditate. But with the time you're done the anger has subsided. That means you've saved the people around you from theventer that might have been expressed in your words or your deeds.

(11.34) And the more time you give to meditation the more you try them on, the more deep the results become. And the more deep the impact ___ are on other people. So, all that contemplation comes under what the Buddha calls generating desire. It's part of right effort generating desire to do something skillful. To understand what action is and your power of choice, unless you are going to use that power well. You're not like the congress man in that New Yorker cartoon when he's coming down the steps the capitalist is saying: What use of power when you cannot use it? What kind of power? "If you abuse it, you're going to to be the one who is abused!"

The one who uses power of choice - you want to choose it well. And you can. The Buddha is showing you how. Instructions are not superhuman. If said it was thought as superhuman he wouldn't have taught them. That's when the mind feels tempted to go out... some play sounds. Remind yourself: Do what you're doing right here, being with your breath! And you may not see the results you want right away. At least, is headed into the right direction. We don't just sit in the present moment. The present moment is an arrow that moves into he future. Timehas an arrow. Tin me has any arrow. That's what you do now will have an impact now and on into the future.
So, sometimes, the immediate impact is not what you want when it's not as good1 as you want but it's headed in the right direction. It's part of a path. The path that leads to knowledge, the path that leads to awakening. The path that leads to goodness all around.

So, when you're tempted to slip off the path, remind yourself: it's hard to find a path this good. Ann's whenever you're slipping off, is pretty miserable in comparison.
And so, in this way, that reflection and gratitude in the context of karma can bring you right here. Doing what you should be doing in terms of the duties of the Four Noble Truths. Duties that are imposed on you, but you want to put an end to suffering - and this is how it's done and here's your opportunity to do it!
So let that thought be uplifting!

 _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

N.B.: Einige Passagen sind unklar oder ev. falsch geschrieben , daher sind Korrekturen jederzeit willkommen.

[Johann bemerkt]
« Last Edit: September 23, 2017, 03:00:41 PM by Johann »

Offline Johann

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Re: [En] Karma and Gratitude, Bhante Thanissaro
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2017, 02:31:55 PM »
Sadhu! Nyom Sophorn .

* The father kicked him downstairs, broke both his legs.

Scheint ein "Versprecher" von Bhante zu sein, oder ein The father kicked "by" him downstairs, broke both his legs.

(Atma gerade mitten im Lesen)

Oh nein... Punkt! Son of previous marriage... (Then it) Came to huge arguments with, the father... (He -the son) kicked him downstairs, broke both his legs.

Past auch zum Kontext, wenn nochmal angehört.
(Satzteilschlucker wie Atma, Bhante, wenn's um "Geschichten geht)

* There is a case here as "Bheagwa"

Vielleicht: "There is a case here, as back, where... (herausgeschnitten, die Einleitung?) Oder der Ort von Ajahn Fuangs Kloster? Aber dann paßt das "here" nicht in den Kontext.

* There are people who thought that whatever people do is totally influenced or totally determined by say, the stars or some creator, God, (or) by their past karma, in other words, people ...

* That's why the reflection on gratitude is one useful way of getting the mind to be willing to settle down in the present moment, realizing this is the way, as the Buddha said, that's karma but leads to the end of karma, and all the entanglement(s) that come(s) with karma.

* ___ that you're pretty tying up in the narratives. Aus em Kontext vielleicht: ...but it is not so that he (oder you) get up caught in the narratives:... d.h: "die Geschichte endet nicht hiermit (den Geschichten von früher)"
« Last Edit: September 23, 2017, 03:43:04 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Tags:
 

Plauderbox

 

Johann

Today at 01:52:05 AM
Sadhu!
 

Sophorn

June 20, 2018, 08:42:25 PM
Möge es ein verdienstvoller Uposatha für alle sein!  :-* :-* :-*
 

Marcel

June 19, 2018, 07:41:34 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
Bhante Johann, ich habe die Daten für mein sangham email nicht!! Ich bitte Sie mir diese, aus Mitgefühl, zukommen zu lassen. :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

June 19, 2018, 07:09:43 AM
Hat Nyom Marcel, Khemakumara, noch PW für seine sangham email? Wenn nicht vergibt Atma neues und sendet es an die Adressen wie zuvor.
 

Johann

June 19, 2018, 07:00:27 AM
_/\_ Okasa Bhante, if Bhante likes to give a teaching in regard of Vandami, out of compassion, his merits would be joyful received.
 

Indaññāno

June 19, 2018, 06:55:59 AM
សង្ឃ
 

Johann

June 19, 2018, 06:40:35 AM
_/\_ Bhante Indannano _/\_
 

Marcel

June 19, 2018, 02:48:19 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
Bhante Johann, i will let you all khnow when the final going forth has been requested :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

June 19, 2018, 02:39:20 AM
If Bhante has lost account and email settings, let it be known, that my person sends it to marcel@sangham.net
 

Johann

June 19, 2018, 02:37:20 AM
Let all know when the final going forth has been simply requested, simply received, to be able to rejoice with it.
 

Johann

June 19, 2018, 02:33:42 AM
Let all know when the final going forth has been simply requested, simply received, to be able to rejoice with it.
 

Johann

June 19, 2018, 02:31:03 AM
Nyom Marcel
 

Johann

June 17, 2018, 07:18:53 PM
Bestes Gelingen und Freude dabei.
 

Moritz

June 17, 2018, 05:19:19 PM
Ich verabschiede mich für heut, muss andere Arbeit tun. Einen schönen Sonntag.
_/\_
 

Johann

June 17, 2018, 02:30:10 PM
Mudita
 

Marcel

June 17, 2018, 02:19:16 PM
 :-* :-* :-* die Übung ist besser als im "alten haus"  Zuversicht, geduld und Respekt über den drei juwelen ist da!!  :-* :-* :-*
 

Marcel

June 17, 2018, 02:19:05 PM
 :-* :-* :-* die Übung ist besser als im "alten haus"  Zuversicht, geduld und Respekt über den drei juwelen ist da!!  :-* :-* :-*
 

Marcel

June 17, 2018, 02:19:02 PM
 :-* :-* :-* die Übung ist besser als im "alten haus"  Zuversicht, geduld und Respekt über den drei juwelen ist da!!  :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

June 17, 2018, 01:53:53 PM
Wie immer recht, Nyom. Wie stets mit der Übung und allem neu und unperfekt?
 

Marcel

June 17, 2018, 01:42:40 PM
 :-*  :-* :-* anumodana :-* :-* :-*
 

Marcel

June 17, 2018, 01:40:03 PM
 :-* :-* :-*

Der ehrwürdige bhante besitzt noch den pc ! Bhante idananno ist für 2 Tage nach phnom phen. Wenn bhante wieder. Da ist, werde ich ihn  fragen und mich darum kümmern dass bhante  einen Zugang zum onlinekloster bekommt!  :-* :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

June 17, 2018, 01:26:26 PM
Hat Bhante noch den alten PC und das USB modem? Wenn Nyom, nach fragen, seine Sim da reintut, kann er damit sangham.net erreichen. Atma Tel. Nr. 012 345 025 wenn Nyom etwas benötigt.
 

Marcel

June 17, 2018, 01:23:38 PM
Entwürdiger bhante Johann, alles fein hier! Ich kann nun, über mein altes Handy, auf das online-Kloster zugreifen!
 

Marcel

June 17, 2018, 01:22:11 PM
Entwürdiger bhante Johann, alles fein hier! Ich kann nun, über mein altes Handy, auf das online-Kloster zugreifen!
 

Johann

June 17, 2018, 01:15:07 PM
Nyom? Marcel? Alles fein?
 

Johann

June 17, 2018, 01:14:25 PM
Atma kann nicht slowenisch, nur etwas Windisch/Kärntnerisch.

Soviele Raunzwörter... nie über Segensausdrücke gestolpert.

Sokh chomreoun, Nyom.
 

Moritz

June 17, 2018, 10:15:01 AM
Pozdravljeni, Guest!
 

Johann

June 16, 2018, 04:39:12 PM
Sadhu, may Nyom nourish on and rejoice with the merits done and gain pleasant and insightful dwellings of access.
 

Moritz

June 16, 2018, 04:32:09 PM
Chom reap lea.
May Bhante have a good day.
_/\_
 

Johann

June 16, 2018, 09:51:31 AM
Sokh chomreoun Nyom.

(May sukha (happiness) grow to its perfection, "previous father/relative")
 

Moritz

June 16, 2018, 09:38:06 AM
Vandami, Bhante.
Ich bin erst mal weg hier.
_/\_
 

Johann

June 12, 2018, 10:15:27 AM
Mag man sich, mag sich jeder, der Erinnerung an den Neumonduposatha, für geschicktes nutzen.

May everyone takes the New-moon Uposatha as a reminder for acting skilfully
 

Johann

June 06, 2018, 07:21:10 PM
Sadhu!
 

Sophorn

June 06, 2018, 03:02:27 AM
Einen verdienstvollen Uposatha heute  :-*
 

Johann

May 29, 2018, 06:44:12 PM
So der Tag mit Sonnenaufgang beginnt, ist selbt in Asien noch viel Gelegenheit dazu.
 

Sophorn

May 29, 2018, 05:53:50 PM
Möge heute ein verdienstvoller Tag gewesen sein!  :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

May 29, 2018, 11:57:01 AM
Sadhu!
 

Marcel

May 29, 2018, 11:37:19 AM
 :-* :-* :-*

mögen sie alle ein verdienstvollen uposatha haben!  :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

May 22, 2018, 10:11:37 AM
Sadhu!
 

Marcel

May 22, 2018, 09:37:30 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
einen verdienstvollen uposatha wünsche ich allen  :-* :-* :-*
 

Marcel

May 19, 2018, 03:07:57 PM
 :-* :-* :-*

ehrwürdiger bhante

 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

May 19, 2018, 03:05:38 PM
Nyom Marcel.
 

Johann

May 14, 2018, 01:24:42 PM
Sadhu!
 

Marcel

May 14, 2018, 01:23:37 PM
 :-* :-* :-*
allen ein verdienstvollen uposatha

 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

May 14, 2018, 08:34:09 AM
Schüsse von Wilderern am Tag sind ja nicht ungewöhnlich, doch aus mehreren Richtungen und automatischen Waffen doch bisher hier nicht üblich gewesen. Möge niemand anderen Schaden zufügen und sich mit Abstehen davon jeder beschützen.
 

Johann

May 14, 2018, 01:06:38 AM
It's not an accident that you came here and it will be not an accident whether one stays, comes back or leaves for another becoming or goes beyond.
 

Johann

May 13, 2018, 06:51:53 AM
Mag da keiner seine Mutter an dem Tag vergessen zu ehren.
 

Johann

May 11, 2018, 02:11:37 PM
Nyom Marcel.

Schlangentag und -nacht heute. Wem mag man was vergönnen? Der Schlange? Den Mäusen? Metta & Samvega oder umgekehrt? Mal angstlos Hunger, mal Angst, mal Maus, mal Schlange, essen, gegessen, verfolgen, gejagt...
 

Marcel

May 11, 2018, 11:57:36 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
ehrwürdiger bhante
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

May 10, 2018, 04:00:02 PM
Nyom Marcel.

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