*

Tipitaka Khmer

 Please feel welcome to join the transcription project of the Tipitaka translation in khmer, and share one of your favorite Sutta or more. Simply click here or visit the Forum: 

Plauderbox

 

Cheav Villa

Today at 12:16:28 PM
 _/\_
 

Johann

Today at 10:37:26 AM
moved all block to the left side so it might be more smooth to use and view.
 

Cheav Villa

December 14, 2018, 02:06:47 PM
_/\_  _/\_  _/\_
 

Johann

December 14, 2018, 01:54:10 PM
Better, yes. Lesser fibre, only soft malary attacks seemingly ending. Abscesses going to an end, flu nearly gone and some time walk outside, some
more strength, as well already. Best supported by those near and far, direct, indirect. Sadhu Nyom Villa, Nyom Sophorn.
 

Cheav Villa

December 14, 2018, 01:50:17 PM
Vandami Bhante _/\_
Tomorrow early morning
Vithou, His brotherinlaw and Kana's brother Virak they will leave at 5am to Aural wished to visit Bhante and offering some medecines_/\_
 

Cheav Villa

December 13, 2018, 01:39:00 PM
ព្រះអង្គបានធូរខ្លះហេីយ _/\_
 

Sophorn

December 11, 2018, 04:43:02 PM
 :-* :-* :-*
May Bhante recover fast again
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

December 10, 2018, 12:22:01 PM
...many.May Nyom Sokdina let it be known if he desires for an explaining of why modern ideas and demanding go not at all in conformity with the Buddhas Dhamma but are at large leading downwardly.
 

Johann

December 10, 2018, 12:06:17 PM
Thinking in therms of rights is grave wrong view, miccha ditthi. And there are times when voting is not usefull. Of cause people who go after such ideas simply search for relexation, fun and joy and will be not satisfied by the Dhamma, Nyom Sokdina. Don't follow fools and see the many goodness of ma
 

Kong Sokdina

December 10, 2018, 10:33:43 AM
ថ្វាយបង្គំព្រះអង្គ!
Human rigths!
Women rigths,
Children rights,
Democrecy;
We know the right to do. I use self-reflaction to our mind what are something in. The right way is a good way all wr wish. I have to g
ask you about the breath relaxation, meditatii
 

Cheav Villa

December 10, 2018, 09:43:12 AM
សូមព្រះអង្គបានសម្រាក និងឆាន់ថ្នាំ សូមព្រះអង្គឆាប់ធូរស្បេីយពីរោគា
_/\_
 

Johann

December 10, 2018, 09:12:24 AM
Krun Chan did the arriving appear faster and binds to rest. Everything fine, dhammata.
 

Sophorn

December 10, 2018, 07:03:39 AM
 :-* :-* :-* kana is good. Kana assumes Bhante arrived well at Thmor Touk again.
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

December 09, 2018, 02:16:13 PM
Upanissaya, Nyom Villa... "accidents"...
 

Cheav Villa

December 09, 2018, 02:08:10 PM
ថ្វាយបង្គំព្រះអង្គ _/\_
 :D កូណាស្មនត្រូវថាព្រះអង្គនឹងត្រឡប់ទៅដល់អាស្រមវិញនាល្ងាចថ្ងៃអាទិត្យនេះ _/\_
 

Khemakumara

December 09, 2018, 01:33:19 AM
Nyom Sophorn, everything is fine!  How is nyom?
 

Sophorn

December 08, 2018, 05:40:28 PM
 :-* :-* :-* vandami Bhante Khemakura, how is Bhante?
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Sophorn

December 08, 2018, 05:40:24 PM
 :-* :-* :-* vandami Bhante Khemakura, how is Bhante?
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Cheav Villa

December 07, 2018, 01:18:12 PM
Kana Preah Ang _/\_
 

Khemakumara

December 07, 2018, 01:10:24 PM
Nyom Cheav Villa
 

Cheav Villa

December 05, 2018, 02:54:44 PM
Kana thought Bhante Johann could have left Watt Ayum on Tuesday morning _/\_
 

Cheav Villa

December 05, 2018, 12:04:44 PM
ព្រះអង្គ​Inddanano _/\_
 

Kong Sokdina

December 04, 2018, 11:52:14 AM
Sadhu! Kana Prah Ang;
There are many ways to wash & clean the all minds, Preah konmchas; i had been taught by prf. from Spain with theory & practice as well since 2006-2009 and i also let my clients to do like whatever you have told me right now. For me at this time; it should use cognitive behavio
 

Khemakumara

December 03, 2018, 05:06:22 PM
Sadhu!  Möge es Nyom Roman und Nyom Moritz gut er-gehen!
 

Moritz

December 03, 2018, 05:03:40 PM
Ebenso _/\_
 

Roman

December 03, 2018, 04:58:02 PM
ich wünsche Allen einen friedevollen Abend!
 

Roman

December 03, 2018, 04:55:34 PM
Guten Abend Moritz und Bhante Khemakumara
 

Khemakumara

December 03, 2018, 04:54:47 PM
Nyom Moritz Nyom Roman
 

Moritz

December 03, 2018, 04:45:52 PM
Vandami, Bhante Indaññano and Bhante Khemakumara _/\_
 

Cheav Villa

December 03, 2018, 12:05:41 PM
Kana Prah Ang  :D _/\_
 

Khemakumara

December 03, 2018, 12:01:58 PM
Nyom Cheav Villa
 

Johann

December 03, 2018, 09:37:36 AM
Nyom Sokdina. It would be good if Nyom could participate on the up-coming Meditation week-end at Wat Akyum to clean the mind.
 

Kong Sokdina

December 03, 2018, 02:15:52 AM
Nyoms! Last night, a gouhter is affect by irritable cougbhing so it disurbance to sleep.
 

Kong Sokdina

December 03, 2018, 02:11:21 AM
Sadhu! Thanks!
It is just  tried to give up & burn out of bad spiritul inside. Your Wishes isi good for all.
 

Sophorn

December 02, 2018, 08:48:58 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
may you recover well and fast  :-* :-* :-*
 

Kong Sokdina

December 02, 2018, 02:18:46 AM
Respectfully
Today, my is ill with lower blood pressure & blurred sion. But she tries to see because she really praises excellent merit, moral & virtue. How do you think  , as humanbeing?
 

Cheav Villa

December 01, 2018, 12:29:08 PM
 :o ព្រះអង្គស្រេងអាចនឹងដំឡេីងកម្មវិធីទាំងអស់នោះវិញបាននៅពេលក្រោយ ព្រះអង្គ _/\_
 

Johann

December 01, 2018, 12:16:35 PM
Not easy, but Atma has now erased all facebook, messenger.. apps on Bhantes device. Maybe possible to prepar the old Sangha-laptop in proper ways for him.
 

Johann

December 01, 2018, 07:58:21 AM
If wishing, you could use the Pali-language forum, http://sangham.net/index.php/board,26.0.html for your lessons.
 

Cheav Villa

December 01, 2018, 06:57:19 AM
 :D _/\_
 

Johann

December 01, 2018, 06:48:05 AM
.. was written by Johann
 

Indaññāno

December 01, 2018, 06:45:34 AM
It's good to make everything that Huang's may not use messenger and things like Facebook! Of course there is support (given support) needed to do so. Don't pull monks into the worlds markets and ways.
 

Cheav Villa

December 01, 2018, 06:00:30 AM
Kuna Prah Ang  :D _/\_
 

Johann

December 01, 2018, 05:22:57 AM
Bhante is just taking his meal, Nyom.
 

Cheav Villa

December 01, 2018, 04:40:17 AM
ព្រះអង្គ ឥន្ទញាណោ _/\_
 

Sophorn

November 30, 2018, 11:20:52 AM
 :-* :-* :-* sadhu and mudita to hear so.
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Cheav Villa

November 30, 2018, 05:52:17 AM
Sadhu _/\_
 

Johann

November 30, 2018, 05:43:37 AM
Everything "fine", better Dhammata, Nyom. Atma met Nyom. His mind is attentive, he could listen and its up to his own further investigation, blessed, being bound to care only about his breath for the time left.
 

Cheav Villa

November 29, 2018, 02:05:44 PM
តេីសុខភាពពិបាកទ្រាំ ដែរទេព្រះអង្គ? និងលោកតាឧបាសក?
 

Cheav Villa

November 29, 2018, 02:01:01 PM
ថ្វាយបង្គំព្រះអង្គ  :D
_/\_

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Author Topic: How to think Unthinkable Suffering in the Hell  (Read 318 times)

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Offline gus

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How to think Unthinkable Suffering in the Hell
« on: October 01, 2018, 05:34:11 AM »
Okasa,

Many people who believe in the existence of the hell described by the Omniscient One has failed to understand the level of suffering of the hell at least in a sufficient way.

After hearing that the suffering in the hell is unthinkable, many people doesn't feel the suffering as they feel about suffering in this world (diseases, accidents, pains).

Let's say X='biggest suffering that can be felt and understood';
If they understand suffering of the hell as 'X+', then people feel and understand it.

eg: People feel 1000000 as a big number, but they feel 'infinity' as something like '0' because they can't grasp the 'infinity' by their minds.

What is bhante's opinion on the correct way to contemplate the suffering of the hell ?

Vandami.

Offline Johann

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Re: How to think Unthinkable Suffering in the Hell
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2018, 09:38:25 AM »
Doesn't Deva gus remember himself?
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Offline gus

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Re: How to think Unthinkable Suffering in the Hell
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2018, 09:58:26 AM »
My current method is reading the suttas about hell again and again and being scared.

Offline Johann

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Re: How to think Unthinkable Suffering in the Hell
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2018, 07:14:03 PM »
Question, with other words, meant: Haven't you seen the first 3/4 divine messenger (dukkha)? Not sure what is meant/tought by: "The Buddha never witnessed hell..."

tathatā... niyāma... yāma:

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

Devaduta Sutta: The Deva Messengers

I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying near Sāvatthī in Jeta's Grove, Anāthapiṇḍika's monastery. There the Blessed One addressed the monks, "Monks."

"Yes, lord," the monks responded to him.

The Blessed One said, "Monks, it's as if there were two households with doors, and a man of good eyesight, standing there between them, would see people entering & leaving a house, wandering out & about. In the same way, I — by means of the divine eye, purified & surpassing the human — see beings passing away & re-appearing, and I discern how they are inferior & superior, beautiful & ugly, fortunate & unfortunate in accordance with their actions: 'O, how these beings — who were endowed with good conduct of body, speech, & mind, who did not revile noble ones, who held right views and undertook actions under the influence of right views — with the break-up of the body, after death, have re-appeared in a good destination, the heavenly world. Or how these beings — who were endowed with bad conduct of body, speech & mind, who reviled noble ones, held wrong views and undertook actions under the influence of wrong views — with the break-up of the body, after death, have re-appeared in the realm of the hungry ghosts. Or how these beings — who were endowed with bad conduct of body, speech & mind, who reviled noble ones, held wrong views and undertook actions under the influence of wrong views — with the break-up of the body, after death, have re-appeared in the animal womb. Or how these beings — who were endowed with bad conduct of body, speech & mind, who reviled noble ones, held wrong views and undertook actions under the influence of wrong views — with the break-up of the body, after death, have re-appeared in a plane of deprivation, a bad destination, a lower realm, hell.'

"Then the hell-wardens, seizing (such a being) by the arms, present him to King Yama: 'This is a man, your majesty, with no respect for mother, no respect for father [1], no reverence for contemplatives, no reverence for brahmans, no honor for the leaders of his clan. Let your majesty decree his punishment.'

"Then King Yama interrogates & interpellates & castigates the man regarding the first deva messenger: 'My good man, didn't you see the first deva messenger that has appeared among human beings?'

"'I didn't, lord,' he says.

Then King Yama says, 'My good man, didn't you see among human beings a tender baby boy lying prone in its own urine & excrement?'

"'I did, lord,' he says.

Then King Yama says, 'My good man, didn't the thought occur to you — observant & mature: "I, too, am subject to birth, have not gone beyond birth. I'd better do good with body, speech, & mind"?'

"'I couldn't, lord. I was heedless, lord.'

Then King Yama says, 'My good man, through heedlessness you did not do what is good with body, speech, & mind. And of course, my good man, they will deal with you in accordance with your heedlessness. For that evil kamma [2] of yours was neither done by your mother, nor done by your father, nor done by your brother, nor done by your sister, nor done by your friends & companions, nor done by your kinsmen & relatives, nor done by the devas. That evil kamma was done by you yourself, and you yourself will experience its result.'

"Then, having interrogated & interpellated & castigated the man regarding the first deva messenger, King Yama interrogates & interpellates & castigates him regarding the second: 'My good man, didn't you see the second deva messenger that has appeared among human beings?'

"'I didn't, lord,' he says.

"Then King Yama says, 'My good man, didn't you see among human beings a woman or man eighty, ninety, one hundred years old: aged, roof-rafter crooked, bent-over, supported by a cane, palsied, miserable, broken-toothed, gray-haired, scanty-haired, bald, wrinkled, with limbs all blotchy?'

"'I did, lord,' he says.

"Then King Yama says, 'My good man, didn't the thought occur to you — observant & mature: "I, too, am subject to aging, have not gone beyond aging. I'd better do good with body, speech, & mind"?'

"'I couldn't, lord. I was heedless, lord.'

"Then King Yama says, 'My good man, through heedlessness you did not do what is good with body, speech, & mind. And of course, my good man, they will deal with you in accordance with your heedlessness. For that evil kamma of yours was neither done by your mother, nor done by your father, nor done by your brother, nor done by your sister, nor done by your friends & companions, nor done by your kinsmen & relatives, nor done by the devas. That evil kamma was done by you yourself, and you yourself will experience its result.'

"Then, having interrogated & interpellated & castigated the man regarding the second deva messenger, King Yama interrogates & interpellates & castigates him regarding the third: 'My good man, didn't you see the third deva messenger that has appeared among human beings?'

"'I didn't, lord,' he says.

"Then King Yama says, 'My good man, didn't you see among human beings a woman or man diseased, in pain, severely ill, lying in her/his own urine & excrement, lifted up by others, laid down by others?'

"'I did, lord,' he says.

"Then King Yama says, 'My good man, didn't the thought occur to you — observant & mature: "I, too, am subject to illness, have not gone beyond illness. I'd better do good with body, speech, & mind"?'

"'I couldn't, lord. I was heedless, lord.'

"Then King Yama says, 'My good man, through heedlessness you did not do what is good with body, speech, & mind. And of course, my good man, they will deal with you in accordance with your heedlessness. For that evil kamma of yours was neither done by your mother, nor done by your father, nor done by your brother, nor done by your sister, nor done by your friends & companions, nor done by your kinsmen & relatives, nor done by the devas. That evil kamma was done by you yourself, and you yourself will experience its result.'

"Then, having interrogated & interpellated & castigated the man regarding the third deva messenger, King Yama interrogates & interpellates & castigates him regarding the fourth: 'My good man, didn't you see the fourth deva messenger that has appeared among human beings?'

"'I didn't, lord,' he says.

"Then King Yama says, 'My good man, didn't you see among human beings kings — catching a thief, a criminal — having him tortured in many ways: flogging him with whips, beating him with canes, beating him with clubs; cutting off his hands, cutting off his feet, cut off his hands & feet; cutting off his ears, cutting off his nose, cutting off his ears & nose; subjecting him to the 'porridge pot,' the 'polished-shell shave,' the 'Rāhu's mouth,' the 'flaming garland,' the 'blazing hand,' the 'grass-duty (ascetic),' the 'bark-dress (ascetic),' the 'burning antelope,' the 'meat hooks,' the 'coin-gouging,' the 'lye pickling,' the 'pivot on a stake,' the 'rolled-up bed'; having him splashed with boiling oil, devoured by dogs, impaled alive on a stake; cutting off his head with a sword?'

"'I did, lord,' he says.

"Then King Yama says, 'My good man, didn't the thought occur to you — observant & mature: "It seems that those who do evil actions are tortured in these many ways in the here-&-now. And how much more in the hereafter? I'd better do good with body, speech, & mind"?'

"'I couldn't, lord. I was heedless, lord.'

"Then King Yama says, 'My good man, through heedlessness you did not do what is good with body, speech, & mind. And of course, my good man, they will deal with you in accordance with your heedlessness. For that evil kamma of yours was neither done by your mother, nor done by your father, nor done by your brother, nor done by your sister, nor done by your friends & companions, nor done by your kinsmen & relatives, nor done by the devas. That evil kamma was done by you yourself, and you yourself will experience its result.'

"Then, having interrogated & interpellated & castigated the man regarding the fourth deva messenger, King Yama interrogates & interpellates & castigates him regarding the fifth: 'My good man, didn't you see the fifth deva messenger that has appeared among human beings?'

"'I didn't, lord,' he says.

"Then King Yama says, 'My good man, didn't you see among human beings a woman or man, one day, two days, or three days dead: bloated, livid, oozing with lymph?'

"'I did, lord,' he says.

"Then King Yama says, 'My good man, didn't the thought occur to you — observant & mature: "I, too, am subject to death, have not gone beyond death. I'd better do good with body, speech, & mind"?'

"'I couldn't, lord. I was heedless, lord.'

"Then King Yama says, 'My good man, through heedlessness you did not do what is good with body, speech, & mind. And of course, my good man, they will deal with you in accordance with your heedlessness. For that evil kamma of yours was neither done by your mother, nor done by your father, nor done by your brother, nor done by your sister, nor done by your friends & companions, nor done by your kinsmen & relatives, nor done by the devas. That evil kamma was done by you yourself, and you yourself will experience its result.'

"Then, having interrogated & interpellated & castigated the man regarding the fifth deva messenger, King Yama falls silent. [3]

"Then the hell-wardens torture [the evil-doer] with what's called a five-fold imprisonment. They drive a red-hot iron stake through one hand, they drive a red-hot iron stake through the other hand, they drive a red-hot iron stake through one foot, they drive a red-hot iron stake through the other foot, they drive a red-hot iron stake through the middle of his chest. There he feels painful, racking, piercing feelings, yet he does not die as long as his evil kamma is not exhausted.

"Then the hell-wardens lay him down and slice him with axes. Then they hold him feet up & head down and slice him with adzes. Then they harness him to a chariot and drive him back & forth over ground that is burning, blazing, & glowing. Then they make him climb up & down a vast mountain of embers that is burning, blazing, & glowing. Then they hold him feet up & head down and plunge him into a red-hot copper cauldron that is burning, blazing, & glowing. There he boils with bubbles foaming. And as he is boiling there with bubbles foaming, he goes now up, he goes now down, he goes now around. There he feels painful, racking, piercing feelings, yet he does not die as long as his evil kamma is not exhausted. [4]

"Then the hell-wardens throw him into the Great Hell. And as to the Great Hell, monks:

It's four-cornered & has four gates
set in the middle of each side.
It's surrounded by an iron fortress wall
and roofed with iron.
Its floor is made of red-hot iron,
heated, fully blazing.
It stands always, spreading 100 leagues all around.



"The flame that leaps from the eastern wall of the Great Hell strikes the western wall. The flame that leaps from the western wall strikes the eastern wall. The flame that leaps from the northern wall strikes the southern wall. The flame that leaps from the southern wall strikes the northern wall. The flame that leaps from the bottom strikes the top. The flame that leaps from the top strikes the bottom. There he feels painful, racking, piercing feelings, yet he does not die as long as his evil kamma is not exhausted.

"There comes a time when, ultimately, with the passing of a long stretch of time, the eastern gate of the Great Hell opens. He runs there, rushing quickly. As he runs there, rushing quickly, his outer skin burns, his inner skin burns, his flesh burns, his tendons burn, even his bones turn to smoke. When [his foot] is lifted, he is the just same. [5] But when he finally arrives, the door slams shut. There he feels painful, racking, piercing feelings, yet he does not die as long as his evil kamma is not exhausted.

"There comes a time when, ultimately, with the passing of a long stretch of time, the western gate of the Great Hell opens... the northern gate... the southern gate of the Great Hell opens. He runs there, rushing quickly. As he runs there, rushing quickly, his outer skin burns, his inner skin burns, his flesh burns, his tendons burn, even his bones turn to smoke. When [his foot] is lifted, he is the just same. But when he finally arrives, the door slams shut. There he feels painful, racking, piercing feelings, yet he does not die as long as his evil kamma is not exhausted.

"There comes a time when, ultimately, with the passing of a long stretch of time, the eastern gate of the Great Hell opens. He runs there, rushing quickly. As he runs there, rushing quickly, his outer skin burns, his inner skin burns, his flesh burns, his tendons burn, even his bones turn to smoke. When [his foot] is lifted, he is the just same. He gets out through the gate. But right next to the Great Hell is a vast Excrement Hell. He falls into that. And in that Excrement Hell needle-mouth beings bore into his outer skin. Having bored into his outer skin, they bore into his inner skin... his flesh... his tendons... the bone. Having bored into the bone, they feed on the marrow. There he feels painful, racking, piercing feelings, yet he does not die as long as his evil kamma is not exhausted.

"Right next to the Excrement Hell is the vast Hot Ashes Hell. He falls into that. There he feels painful, racking, piercing feelings, yet he does not die as long as his evil kamma is not exhausted.

"Right next to the Hot Ashes Hell is the vast Simbali Forest, [with trees] reaching up a league, covered with thorns sixteen fingerbreadths long — burning, blazing, & glowing. He enters that and is made to climb up & down them. There he feels painful, racking, piercing feelings, yet he does not die as long as his evil kamma is not exhausted.

"Right next to the Simbali Forest is the vast Sword-leaf Forest. He enters that. There the leaves, stirred by the wind, cut off his hand, cut off his foot, cut off his hand & foot, cut off his ear, cut off his nose, cut off his ear & nose. There he feels painful, racking, piercing feelings, yet he does not die as long as his evil kamma is not exhausted.

"Right next to the Sword-leaf Forest is the vast Lye-water River. He falls into that. There he is swept downstream, he is swept upstream, he is swept downstream & upstream. There he feels painful, racking, piercing feelings, yet he does not die as long as his evil kamma is not exhausted.

"Then the hell-wardens pull him out with a hook and, placing him on the ground, say to him, 'Well, good man, what do you want?' He replies, 'I'm hungry, venerable sirs.' So the hell-wardens pry open his mouth with red-hot iron tongs — burning, blazing, & glowing — and throw into it a copper ball, burning, blazing, & glowing. It burns his lips, it burns his mouth, it burns his stomach and comes out the lower side, carrying along his bowels & intestines. There he feels painful, racking, piercing feelings, yet he does not die as long as his evil kamma is not exhausted.

"Then the hell-wardens say to him, 'Well, good man, what do you want?' He replies, 'I'm thirsty, venerable sirs.' So the hell-wardens pry open his mouth with red-hot iron tongs — burning, blazing, & glowing — and pour into it molten copper, burning, blazing, & glowing. It burns his lips, it burns his mouth, it burns his stomach and comes out the lower side, carrying along his bowels & intestines. There he feels painful, racking, piercing feelings, yet he does not die as long as his evil kamma is not exhausted.

"Then the hell-wardens throw him back into the Great Hell once more. [6]

"Once, monks, the thought occurred to King Yama: 'Those who did evil actions in the world are tortured in these many ways. O that I might gain the human state! And that a Tathāgata — worthy & rightly self-awakened — might arise in the world! And that I might attend to that Tathāgata! And that he might teach me the Dhamma! And that I might understand his Dhamma!'

"I tell you this, monks, not from having heard it from another contemplative or brahman. On the contrary, I tell you this just as I have known for myself, seen for myself, understood for myself."

That is what the Blessed One said. Having said that, the One Well-gone, the Teacher, said further:


Warned by the deva messengers,
those youths who are heedless
grieve for a long, long time —
people entering a lower state.
But those here who are good,
   people of integrity,
when warned by the deva messengers
   aren' t heedless
   of the noble Dhamma — ever.
Seeing danger in clinging,
   in the coming-into-play
   of birth & death,
they are released from lack of clinging,
   in the ending
   of birth & death.
They, happy, arriving at safety,
fully unbound in the here-&-now,
having gone beyond
   all animosity & danger
have escaped
   all suffering & stress.

« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 07:21:30 PM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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