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Talkbox

2019 Apr 25 07:32:44
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻អរព្រះគុណ ព្រះអង្គ

2019 Apr 25 04:42:51
Johann: Sokh chomreoun, Nyom. (May well-being come to fullfillment.)

2019 Apr 25 02:30:46
Ieng Puthy: តេីលោកRoman មានបំណងទៅវត្តអកយំនៅថ្ងៃណាដែរ?ព្រះអង្គ🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

2019 Apr 25 02:29:26
Ieng Puthy: ករុណានិង បងសុភឿន នឹងជូនលោកRoman ទៅវត្តអកយំបាន

2019 Apr 25 02:28:00
Ieng Puthy: ករុណានិង បង សុភឿន នឹងជួយស

2019 Apr 25 02:27:00
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻ករុណាថ្វាយបង្គំុព្រះអង្គ Vandami Bhante

2019 Apr 24 17:56:05
Cheav Villa: កូណា សរសេរពួកយើង​ គឺជំនួសមុខ​ បងពុទ្ធីនិងសុភឿន  _/\_

2019 Apr 24 17:54:42
Cheav Villa: បង​ពុទ្ធី បានអោយកូណាសួរអំពីពេលវេលា​ ដែលលោកRoman នឹងទៅអកយំ _/\_

2019 Apr 24 17:52:47
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_  កូណាបាន ប្រាប់បងពុទ្ធី និង​សុ​ភឿន ប្រសិនបើគាត់អាចជួយបាន ព្រោះកូណាមិនមានសេរីភាពច្រើនដូចពួកគាត់

2019 Apr 24 17:01:34
Johann: Modern (ab)art of conversation and old patient culture...  :) great training only serious take on and rushing hide on messanger, fb, or in the ocean of Maras internet. Mudita.  :)

2019 Apr 23 13:36:18
Cheav Villa: Kana :D _/\_

2019 Apr 23 13:24:57
Johann: ? But light is always good. Oh, maybe the honey bee candles...: Atma told Upasika Sophorn to take them with her to share, since the mices would eat them away here. Mudita

2019 Apr 23 12:52:51
Cheav Villa: Kana Preah Ang  _/\_ Vithou told kana that Bhante sending us a pair of candles all through Bang Sophorn  :D _/\_

2019 Apr 23 12:06:15
Johann: Nyom Villa. Atma does not understand all circumstances but much mudita and appreciantion with sharing merits with each other, taking each other along good.

2019 Apr 23 11:04:23
Cheav Villa: កូណា ទើបបានដំណឹងពី Vithou ថាព្រះអង្គផ្ញើទានមួយគូមក តាមរយៈ​បងសុភ័ណ​ ខ្ញុំកូណា​សូម​អរព្រះគុណ​  :) _/\_

2019 Apr 23 11:02:19
Cheav Villa: ថ្វាយបង្គំ​ព្រះអង្គ  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Apr 23 02:03:31
Johann: Nyom. (smilies of the common places are not visible here for many)

2019 Apr 22 17:36:16
Ieng Puthy: 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻ករុណាសូមថ្វាយបង្គំុ Vandami Bhante

2019 Apr 22 15:54:07
Cheav Villa: Master Moritz  _/\_

2019 Apr 22 15:03:17
Moritz: _/\_ Bong Villa

2019 Apr 20 07:30:33
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Apr 20 05:25:34
Moritz: _/\_ bong Vithou

2019 Apr 19 06:30:18
Cheav Villa:  _/\_

2019 Apr 19 06:25:58
Moritz: _/\_ bong Villa

2019 Apr 19 06:25:48
Moritz: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante

2019 Apr 19 02:23:14
Cheav Villa:  សាធុ​ៗ  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Apr 19 01:42:18
Johann: Another fullmoon, another chance. It's not sure that breaking apart will make it the last. May all spend a auspicious Uposatha.

2019 Apr 17 15:33:54
Chanroth:  _/\_ bong Moritz

2019 Apr 17 15:32:22
Chanroth:  _/\_bong villa

2019 Apr 17 15:31:07
Chanroth:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Apr 17 07:11:18
Johann: Bhante

2019 Apr 17 05:05:51
Johann: Bhante  _/\_

2019 Apr 17 02:16:55
Johann: May all bring some merits left into this new year for them!

2019 Apr 12 17:30:17
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Apr 12 14:39:05
Johann: Nyom Moritz, Nyom Villa

2019 Apr 12 14:27:27
Cheav Villa:  _/\_  Master Moritz

2019 Apr 12 14:26:24
Moritz: _/\_ Bong Villa

2019 Apr 12 14:26:12
Moritz: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante

2019 Apr 12 14:09:15
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Apr 12 01:54:32
Johann: A meritful Sila-day and much rightly joy by doing merits.

2019 Apr 09 08:24:39
Johann: Meister Moritz

2019 Apr 09 08:14:00
Moritz: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante

2019 Apr 06 19:12:07
Moritz: Vandami, Bhante _/\_

2019 Apr 06 08:32:11
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Apr 06 07:44:05
Johann: _/\_ Bhante Indannano, Bhante Khemakumara

2019 Apr 06 06:51:05
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Apr 05 14:37:22
Khemakumara: Nyom Roman

2019 Apr 05 14:35:22
Johann: Bhante, Meister Roman

2019 Apr 05 14:18:13
Khemakumara:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ Bhante

2019 Apr 05 09:58:10
Khemakumara: Nyom Cheav Villa

2019 Apr 05 09:55:43
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Apr 05 09:53:07
Khemakumara: Nyom Moritz

2019 Apr 05 07:23:13
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Apr 05 05:41:00
Johann: Nyom Villa

2019 Apr 04 02:43:01
Johann: May all spend a meritful old month over New month birth day this day.

2019 Apr 03 21:09:04
Moritz: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Apr 03 13:50:42
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Apr 03 13:23:48
Johann: Sadhu

2019 Apr 03 13:07:53
Khemakumara: Tomorrow is new moon uposatha,  take this noble opportunity to come together in khema (peaceful).  It is not common,  that living beings are in contact with Buddha,  Dhamma, Sangha.  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Apr 02 15:20:21
Cheav Villa:  _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Apr 02 05:09:56
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2019 Apr 02 04:40:57
Moritz: Good morning Bhante and Chanroth _/\_ And good night to me. :)

2019 Apr 01 17:12:00
Moritz: Good evening Bhante. _/\_

2019 Apr 01 15:16:08
Johann: Nyom Chanroth, Nyom Villa (mudita that those wishing to stay in touch are able here)

2019 Apr 01 04:29:01
Johann: One not having overcome sakayaditthi is not capable to judge right and will always be corrupt.

2019 Mar 31 01:02:21
Johann: One would not let go of ones stand/home.

2019 Mar 31 01:00:01
Johann: As long as Saddha does not arise, it's not right view but stuck in "panna".

2019 Mar 30 10:03:35
Johann: Nyom Moritz

2019 Mar 30 08:48:04
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Mar 30 08:28:03
Johann: Samvega, yes, Nyom. If there is no pasada. Cheating is of no help but selfish motivated. Maybe Affirming the Truths of the Heart: The Buddhist Teachings on Samvega  

2019 Mar 30 08:13:03
Kong Sokdina: Vandami Bhante    :D បើចង់ អោយចេះប្រមាណ បើបាន អោយចេះគ្រប់ ជៀរាងការកើតទុក្ខនាំមកនូវសេចក្ដីខកចិត្ត(depressed mood) ។

2019 Mar 29 06:06:43
Johann: Like a path would disappear fastly in the forest, the path for many unseen if nobody steps on it.

2019 Mar 29 06:04:31
Johann: Because Uppekha isn't the highest and nobody would benefit from it.

2019 Mar 29 06:03:18
Johann: And why the even Noble ones and Arahats continue asking, answering, coss-question, giving Anumodana, critic?

2019 Mar 29 00:41:54
Johann: Once knowing good and bad, no more independency of approve of others, thanks, praise for ones sacrifices.

2019 Mar 29 00:40:05
Johann: What ever one does, one does for him/herself. Knowing this it's importand to give praise and approve to ones own skillful deeds, shame and disprove to bad.

2019 Mar 28 08:51:12
Moritz: I am leaving my computer to work without me. May all have a good Uposatha day. _/\_

2019 Mar 28 08:00:48
Moritz: Ja, gut angekommen. Noch nicht ganz umgestellt. :) Bald wieder los zum Taxifahren. _/\_

2019 Mar 28 07:45:55
Johann: Meister Moritz. Gut angekommen und wieder umgestellt?

2019 Mar 28 07:28:51
Moritz: Vandami Bhante _/\_

2019 Mar 28 00:47:42
Johann: May all spend a meritful Sila-day and be able to recoice with their beauty of having given all being the gift of the Uposatha-Silas.

2019 Mar 26 01:18:56
Cheav Villa:  :D _/\_

2019 Mar 26 01:18:46
Cheav Villa: មិនខុសពីរឿងទៅសុំសៀវភៅសន្ទនានុក្រម នៅវ ត្ត បញ្ញា​ និង..

2019 Mar 26 01:16:15
Cheav Villa: កូណា ជារឿងដែលម្នាក់បានទទួលស្តាប់ និងធ្វើតាមតែមិនបានសំរេច តាមគោលដៅ :D _/\_

2019 Mar 25 15:28:24
Johann: Others, even if pure, is open for critic and bad assumings. Envy, jealously... on each side. So to become not susbected, needs good advices, double hard for woman to act perfect.

2019 Mar 25 15:23:21
Johann: Pappies can give good lessons when they don't fall, but the deeper, the hard training, must come from liberal mommies for daughters and liberal pappies for sons, in the world and for beyond.

2019 Mar 25 15:11:15
Cheav Villa:   _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Mar 25 15:04:40
Johann: Does mommy generally don't actually love her child when not react?

2019 Mar 25 15:03:13
Johann: Mommy, mommy... but I like... ohh, they bite me... I am hungry... when do we go back?... why must we sit here... mommy!

2019 Mar 25 15:00:37
Johann: Which can be changed all the time, with feeding rightly.

2019 Mar 25 14:55:50
Cheav Villa: កូណាសង្ឃឹមថា.​ ជារឿងឧបនិស្ស័យ.​  :D _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Mar 25 14:50:25
Johann: ...teaching and mirror.

2019 Mar 25 14:49:40
Johann: When one is stressed or busy, remember how many times one him/herself was so as well. Intention will always has it's effects, sometimes quick, sometimes even sisters, mother and child... Nyom wouldn't have become here, if there would be not long, long bounds. Watch your child. Thats always a great t

2019 Mar 25 14:40:41
Cheav Villa: _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Mar 25 14:39:48
Cheav Villa: ព្រោះកូណាមិនអាចទៅឱរ៉ាល់បានកំឡុងពេលនេះ តែអាចជួបនៅភ្នំពេញបាន តែចេតនាម្ខាងមិនចង់ជួប ទើបមិនអាចជួប

2019 Mar 25 14:38:39
Cheav Villa: កូណាគ្រាន់តែចង់បញ្ជាក់អំពីចេតនា ដែលម្នាក់មាន និងម្នាក់គ្មាន ក្នុងការ​ជួបគ្នា.ជាហេតុមិនបានជួប :D _/\_

2019 Mar 25 14:37:02
Cheav Villa:    _/\_ _/\_ _/\_

2019 Mar 25 13:44:16
Johann: Nyom Vithou. Foot well again?

2019 Mar 25 11:56:36
Johann: Good stories: The Healing of the Bull and Prisoners of Karma .

2019 Mar 25 11:51:20
Johann: Although monks are allowed to explain how to work oneself out, they are not given to liberate "slaves", prisoner, as this would count as thief.

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Author Topic: The falling away of Devas  (Read 2488 times)

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Offline Johann

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The falling away of Devas
« on: November 02, 2018, 03:51:32 AM »
Something that happens also very often to internet-Devas.

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

PARTIAL ETERNALISM

“There are some contemplatives & brahmans who are partially eternalists and partially non-eternalists, who proclaim a partially eternal and partially non-eternal self & cosmos on four grounds.[1] And with reference to what, coming from what, are these honorable contemplatives & brahmans partially eternalists and partially non-eternalists who proclaim a partially eternal and partially non-eternal self & cosmos on four grounds?

5. “There ultimately comes a time when, with the passing of a long stretch of time, this cosmos devolves. When the cosmos is devolving, beings for the most part head toward the Radiant (brahmās). There they stay: mind-made, feeding on rapture, self-luminous, coursing through the air, established in beauty for a long stretch of time. Then there ultimately comes a time when, with the passing of a long stretch of time, this cosmos evolves. When the cosmos is evolving, an empty Brahmā palace appears. Then a certain being—from the exhaustion of his life span or the exhaustion of his merit[2]—falls from the company of the Radiant and re-arises in the empty Brahmā palace. And there he still stays mind-made, feeding on rapture, self-luminous, coursing through the air, established in beauty for a long stretch of time.

“After dwelling there alone for a long time, he experiences displeasure & agitation: ‘O, if only other beings would come to this world!’

“Then other beings, through the ending of their life span or the ending of their merit, fall from the company of the Radiant and reappear in the Brahmā palace, in the company of that being. And there they still stay mind-made, feeding on rapture, self-luminous, coursing through the air, established in beauty for a long stretch of time.

“Then the thought occurs to the being who reappeared first: ‘I am Brahmā, the Great Brahmā, the Conqueror, the Unconquered, the All-Seeing, All-Powerful, the Sovereign Lord, the Maker, Creator, Chief, Appointer & Ruler, Father of All That Have Been & Shall Be.[3] These beings were created by me. Why is that? First the thought occurred to me, “O, if only other beings would come to this world!” And thus my direction of will brought these beings to this world.’ As for the beings who reappeared later, this thought occurs to them: ‘This is Brahmā… Father of All That Have Been & Shall Be. We were created by this Brahmā. Why is that? We saw that he appeared here before, while we appeared after.’ The being who reappeared first is of longer life span, more beautiful, & more influential, while the beings who reappeared later are of shorter life span, less beautiful, & less influential.

“Now, there is the possibility, monks, that a certain being, having fallen from that company, comes to this world. Having come to this world, he goes forth from the home life into homelessness. Having gone forth from the home life into homelessness, he—through ardency, through exertion, through commitment, through heedfulness, through right attention—touches an awareness- concentration such that in his concentrated mind he recollects that former life, but nothing prior to that. He says, ‘We were created by Brahmā, the Great Brahmā, the Conqueror, the Unconquered, the All-Seeing, All-Powerful, the Sovereign Lord, the Maker, Creator, Chief, Appointer and Ruler, Father of All That Have Been and Shall Be. He is constant, permanent, eternal, not subject to change, and will remain just like that for eternity. But we who have been created by him—inconstant, impermanent, short-lived, subject to falling—have come to this world.’

“This is the first basis—with reference to which, coming from which—some contemplatives & brahmans are partially eternalists and partially non-eternalists who proclaim a partially eternal and partially non-eternal self & cosmos.

6. “As for the second: With reference to what, coming from what, are contemplatives & brahmans partially eternalists and partially non-eternalists who proclaim a partially eternal and partially non-eternal self & cosmos?

“There are, monks, devas called Corrupted by Play.[4] They spend an excessive amount of time indulging in the delights of laughter & play. Because they spend an excessive amount of time indulging in the delights of laughter & play, their mindfulness becomes muddled. Because of muddled mindfulness, they fall from that company of devas.

“Now, there is the possibility, monks, that a certain being, having fallen from that company, comes to this world. Having come to this world, he goes forth from the home life into homelessness. Having gone forth from the home life into homelessness, he—through ardency, through exertion, through commitment, through heedfulness, through right attention—touches an awareness- concentration such that in his concentrated mind he recollects that former life, but nothing prior to that. He says, ‘Those honorable devas who are not corrupted by play don’t spend an excessive amount of time indulging in the delights of laughter & play. Because they don’t spend an excessive amount of time indulging in the delights of laughter & play, their mindfulness doesn’t become muddled. Because of unmuddled mindfulness, they don’t fall from that company. They are constant, permanent, eternal, not subject to change, and will remain just like that for eternity. But those of us who were corrupted by play spent an excessive amount of time indulging in the delights of laughter & play. Because we spent an excessive amount of time indulging in the delights of laughter & play, our mindfulness became muddled. Because of muddled mindfulness, we fell from that company and—inconstant, impermanent, short-lived, subject to falling—have come to this world.’

“This is the second basis—with reference to which, coming from which—some contemplatives & brahmans are partially eternalists and partially non-eternalists who proclaim a partially eternal and partially non-eternal self & cosmos.

7. “As for the third: With reference to what, coming from what, are contemplatives & brahmans partially eternalists and partially non-eternalists who proclaim a partially eternal and partially non-eternal self & cosmos?

“There are, monks, devas called Corrupted by Mind. They spend an excessive amount of time staring at one another.[5] Because they spend an excessive amount of time staring at one another, their minds become corrupted toward one another. Because they are corrupted in mind toward one another, they grow exhausted in body & exhausted in mind. They fall from that company of devas.

“Now, there is the possibility, monks, that a certain being, having fallen from that company, comes to this world. Having come to this world, he goes forth from the home life into homelessness. Having gone forth from the home life into homelessness, he—through ardency, through exertion, through commitment, through heedfulness, through right attention—touches an awareness- concentration such that in his concentrated mind he recollects that former life, but nothing prior to that. He says, ‘Those honorable devas who are not corrupted in mind don’t spend an excessive amount of time staring at one another. Because they don’t spend an excessive amount of time staring at one another, their minds don’t become corrupted toward one another. Because they are uncorrupted in mind toward one another, they don’t grow exhausted in body or exhausted in mind. They don’t fall from that company. They are constant, permanent, eternal, not subject to change, and will remain just like that for eternity. But those of us who were corrupted in mind spent an excessive amount of time staring at one another. Because we spent an excessive amount of time staring at one another, our minds became corrupted toward one another. Because we were corrupted in mind toward one another, we grew exhausted in body & exhausted in mind. We fell from that company and—inconstant, impermanent, short-lived, subject to falling—have come to this world.’

“This is the third basis—with reference to which, coming from which—some contemplatives & brahmans are partially eternalists and partially non-eternalists who proclaim a partially eternal and partially non-eternal self & cosmos.

8. “As for the fourth: With reference to what, coming from what, are contemplatives & brahmans partially eternalists and partially non-eternalists who proclaim a partially eternal and partially non-eternal self & cosmos?

“There is the case where a certain contemplative or brahman is a logician, an inquirer. He states his own improvisation, hammered out by logic, deduced from his inquiries: ‘That which is called “eye” & “ear” & “nose” & “tongue” & “body”: That self is inconstant, impermanent, non-eternal, subject to change. But that which is called “mind” or “intellect” or “consciousness”: That self is constant, permanent, eternal, not subject to change, and will remain just like that for eternity.’[6]

“This is the fourth basis—with reference to which, coming from which—some contemplatives & brahmans are partially eternalists and partially non-eternalists who proclaim a partially eternal and partially non-eternal self & cosmos.

“These, monks, are the contemplatives & brahmans who are partially eternalists and partially non-eternalists, who proclaim a partially eternal and partially non-eternal self & cosmos on four grounds. And whatever contemplatives & brahmans who partially eternalists and partially non-eternalists, who proclaim a partially eternal and partially non-eternal self & cosmos, they all do so on one or another of these four grounds. There is nothing outside of this.

“With regard to this, the Tathāgata discerns that ‘These standpoints, thus seized, thus grasped at, lead to such & such a destination, to such & such a state in the world beyond.’ That the Tathāgata discerns. And he discerns what is higher than that. And yet, discerning that, he does not grasp at it. And as he is not grasping at it, unbinding [nibbuti] is experienced right within. Knowing, as they have come to be, the origination, ending, allure, & drawbacks of feelings, along with the escape from feelings, the Tathāgata, monks—through lack of clinging/sustenance—is released.

“These, monks, are the dhammas—deep, hard to see, hard to realize, tranquil, refined, beyond the scope of conjecture, subtle, to-be-experienced by the wise—that the Tathāgata proclaims, having directly known & realized them for himself, and that those who, rightly speaking in praise of the Tathāgata in line with what is factual, would speak.
 1. As the following discussion shows, various forms of theism would come under this category.
 2. There is an implied criticism of Brahmanism in this sentence: The Great Brahmā, the highest god in their pantheon, has gained his position not because of his greatness but because the merit that would have allowed him to stay in a higher realm was exhausted. See MN 49 .
 3. See the story of the Great Brahmā in DN 11 .
 4. These devas are listed in DN 20.
 5. These devas, too, are listed in DN 20. The Commentary to this passage states that they stare at one another out of envy and anger, but it could also be the case that they stare out of lust.
 6. This is the view propounded by Sāti the Fisherman’s Son in MN 38 —a view that the Buddha characterizes as evil, probably because it denies the role of kamma in shaping experience. However, see Anm. 1 and 2 to that sutta.

So one in a Brahma-realm, and the realm of the Noble Ones is such as well, one should be carefully in observing whats going on with oneself, should not turn to much outwardly so that there is space for all kinds of unwise comparison and one needs ti be very careful that lust does not get space. Dwelling mindful and do what is useful to maintain a certain realm is all that is necessary for long resistance and to head beyond.
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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