* * * *

Tipitaka Khmer

 Please feel welcome to join the transcription project of the Tipitaka translation in khmer, and share one of your favorite Sutta or more. Simply click here or visit the Forum: 

Search ATI on ZzE

Zugang zur Einsicht - Schriften aus der Theravada Tradition



Access to Insight / Zugang zur Einsicht: Dhamma-Suche auf mehr als 4000 Webseiten (deutsch / english) - ohne zu googeln, andere Ressourcen zu nehmen, weltliche Verpflichtungen einzugehen. Sie sind für den Zugang zur Einsicht herzlich eingeladen diese Möglichkeit zu nutzen. (Info)

Random Sutta
Random Article
Random Jataka

Zufälliges Sutta
Zufälliger Artikel
Zufälliges Jataka


Arbeits/Work Forum ZzE

"Dhammatalks.org":
[logo dhammatalks.org]
Random Talk
[pic 30]

Recent Topics

[January 15, 2018, 09:15:20 PM]

[January 15, 2018, 04:10:38 PM]

[January 14, 2018, 09:56:25 AM]

[January 13, 2018, 07:15:25 PM]

[January 13, 2018, 05:40:29 PM]

[January 13, 2018, 05:24:49 PM]

[January 13, 2018, 04:42:42 PM]

[January 13, 2018, 11:50:24 AM]

[January 12, 2018, 06:12:47 PM]

[January 12, 2018, 02:57:17 PM]

[January 12, 2018, 11:46:06 AM]

[January 10, 2018, 05:58:30 AM]

[January 09, 2018, 07:32:38 PM]

[January 09, 2018, 01:20:56 PM]

[January 09, 2018, 11:15:49 AM]

[January 09, 2018, 07:35:21 AM]

[January 09, 2018, 07:30:04 AM]

[January 09, 2018, 05:11:20 AM]

[January 09, 2018, 05:09:36 AM]

[January 09, 2018, 03:08:52 AM]

[January 09, 2018, 01:29:24 AM]

[January 08, 2018, 06:33:37 PM]

[January 08, 2018, 02:39:29 PM]

[January 07, 2018, 03:55:15 AM]

[January 05, 2018, 07:17:28 AM]

[January 04, 2018, 12:49:58 PM]

[January 03, 2018, 12:56:52 PM]

[January 03, 2018, 12:05:50 PM]

[January 01, 2018, 02:05:13 PM]

[January 01, 2018, 12:52:24 PM]

[January 01, 2018, 10:57:04 AM]

[January 01, 2018, 10:16:16 AM]

[January 01, 2018, 10:12:54 AM]

[January 01, 2018, 03:51:14 AM]

[December 31, 2017, 04:34:36 PM]

[December 31, 2017, 08:38:00 AM]

[December 31, 2017, 05:33:43 AM]

[December 31, 2017, 04:44:17 AM]

[December 30, 2017, 10:20:20 AM]

[December 30, 2017, 09:47:04 AM]

[December 29, 2017, 03:25:41 PM]

[December 29, 2017, 02:43:34 PM]

[December 28, 2017, 02:58:21 PM]

[December 28, 2017, 01:23:57 PM]

[December 27, 2017, 02:01:32 PM]

[December 25, 2017, 04:10:57 PM]

[December 25, 2017, 08:38:41 AM]

[December 25, 2017, 06:22:42 AM]

[December 25, 2017, 05:15:56 AM]

[December 24, 2017, 03:18:22 PM]
[Buddha]

Author Topic: [Q&A] What is the meaning of Anicca and Anatta?  (Read 135 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Johann

  • Samanera
  • Very Engaged Member
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +320/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
[Q&A] What is the meaning of Anicca and Anatta?
« on: October 01, 2017, 05:39:09 PM »
What is the meaning of Anicca and Anatta?

Quote from: by Upasaka Sarath
Most[1] of the English translation I read, Anatta is translated as not-self and Anicca as impermanence. However many Sri Lankan Buddhist monks do not agree with this translation. They say it is a miss translation by Buddhagosha. According to many Buddhist monks, it appears, Anicca means our inability to control the five aggregate. Anatta means the futile nature of the five aggregate. Is this true?
 1. actually only some, see discussion there

Venerable members of the Sangha,
walking in front Fellows in leading the holly life.

 _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

In Respect of the Triple Gems, Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, in Respect of the Elders of the community _/\_ , my person tries to answer this question. Please, may all knowledgeable Venerables and Dhammika, out of compassion, correct my person, if something is not correct and fill also graps, if something is missing.

Valued Upasaka, Upasika, Aramika(inis),
dear Readers and Visitors,

 *sgift*

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

(This is a maybe modified and expanded answer of the "original" that can be found here . )

Nyom Sarath, and those with interest,

At(t)ma(n)-peap (atta-paññatti, my person, "I-ness", usually, polite and modest 3rd person adressing of oneself when speaking with householder as pabbajita "one gone forth", here where he dwells) followed the hard leaded discussion on many places of Dhamma-discussion a little, which was merely very un-welcome to many and sometimes "brutal" and ignorant approached, from my persons view, especially in scholar-spheres and where practicing is merely secondary matter, even unwished to be discussed.

Coming to this question, not as a linguistic scholar and also not as a script scholar, but from a practical use, also of language and of it's sense, in relation to the practice and aim.

Here in Cambodia, which maybe has the longest unbroken "oral only"-tradition, with less exchange to organised communities elsewhere and seemingly long unbroken lineage without much scholars, in a more modern way, and scripts very young, many pali and sanskrit words are living part of the countries language in daily use, and also general translations into Khmer (khema = land or person at peace) language are mostly often different to modern translation in living languages.

The word atthanay,for example, as part of common language, adjectivly used, means simply "makes no sense", "has nothing to hold on". Anicca is translated as min-deang or *min-dang (khmer), which means, not-knowable, not to see, not control-able, not in the sphere of control or foreseeable.

That would, independently of this "old" Sri Lankan approach, Sarath quoted,
 
Anicca means our inability to control the five aggregate. Anatta means the futile nature of the five aggregate.


fit well with each other. Practical in living language and meaning, as well practical in relation of the path, for the aim to get ride of suffering/stress, rather to find such as an "I" or destroy it.

At the heart - the sense stays actually (like also particly mentikned by Beginner her) the same with the usual words - it would, for a good and in line of the general context of the Dhamma, and ways conductive for the path, just fit better than use the modern/popular words, since speculations about, if there is a self or not, needs to be avoided, and are root causes of suffering (e.g. papanca).

But maybe the "problem", causing disputes, lies merely there, that the issue of at least emptiness, usually have not been taught to the untrained person (mind), and that people not free of sakkaya-ditthi, one of the lower fetter, self-view, self-believe, has simply a hard to work without self or not-self, therefore prever the use of one or another extreme and bend it here and there that it does not possible seem like eternal- or nihilism, but still is.

How ever, to cut away a "dangerous" assuming that some might draw from it: that would not mean that Nibbana is self - making a dopple-chance in a thought line - it just would mean that Nibbana makes sense (attha), aside of all other phenomenas which do not (anattha), and it is no more not in the sphere of insecurity, niccha, secure. For whom or what, is no question in this sphere, cut off, made an end.

How ever, my person never come across a saying of "nibbana atta, nibbana niccaṃ" quoting the Buddha, ditectly. Maybe out of good reason as well, such was not said, since Nibbana is not an antidote to Samsara, but "simply" beyond.

But this "tiny" distinction fits also well into the "not-modern" translation, suggested here:

 
Quote from: anattā

While in the case of the first two characteristics it is stated that all formations (sabbe sankhārā) are impermanent and subject to suffering, the corresponding text for the third characteristic states that "all things are not-self" (sabbe dhammā anattā; M. 35, Dhp. 279).

Hence: Nibbana "just" nicca: secure: might be possible valid to express, taken that sabbe dhammā anattā incl. Nibbana (for security to be not mistaken as "the Self")

So the answer here will again either stay food for not conductive thoughts for the path either, or possible lead even more "just" to practice and see (dang km) for "oneself" (kluan eing km).

May all able to, gain the best out of it and reach the stream till highest fruit.

This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Tags:
 
11 Guests, 0 Users
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
January 17, 2018, 04:23:46 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Talkbox

 

Johann

Today at 01:08:49 PM
Und gestern? Übersehen, oder verdienstvoll?
 

Sophorn

January 09, 2018, 07:48:37 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
sadhu. anumodana.
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

January 09, 2018, 01:51:15 AM
Sadhu! Anumodana!
 

Marcel

January 09, 2018, 01:39:30 AM
 :-*allen ein verdienstvollen uposatha :-*
 

Johann

January 03, 2018, 11:42:34 AM
ធម្មតា ញោម។ Dhammatā, Ñoma.
 

Marcel

January 03, 2018, 10:39:23 AM
 :-* បាទ :-*  អរគុណ :-*  ខ្ញុំសុខសបាយជាទទអរគុណ  :-* ehrwürdiger bhante, ja mir geht es gut! ich hab mich er-holt!  wie geht es ihnen?  :-*
 

Johann

January 03, 2018, 10:30:20 AM
Marcel. Er- oder besser vielleicht Entholt und Verdaut?
 

Marcel

January 03, 2018, 10:24:49 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Chanroth

January 02, 2018, 04:59:02 AM
សាធុសាធុ :-*
 

Johann

January 01, 2018, 02:05:59 PM
Sokh chomreuon, Nyom.
 

Chanroth

January 01, 2018, 12:36:03 PM
 :-* :-* :-*Karuna tvay bongkum
 

Johann

January 01, 2018, 12:42:33 AM
Einen freidvollen und erkenntnisreichen Vollmond Uposatha, am ersten Tag des Jahres.
 

Johann

December 31, 2017, 05:59:48 PM
Also hier spricht man nun schon von Wiedergeburt 2018.
 

Maria

December 30, 2017, 10:19:57 AM
Danke, wird weitergegeben und ebenfalls die besten Wünsche retour
 

Johann

December 30, 2017, 10:12:19 AM
Beste Wünsche und Grüße in den Kreis der Familien, Freunde und Lieben und möge man viel Zeit mit den Älteren, guten Gönnern und Weisen verbringen, sich nicht zu sehr Panalem hingeben.
 

Maria

December 30, 2017, 10:09:05 AM
Zeichen davor ist leider unpassend.
 

Maria

December 30, 2017, 10:05:41 AM
 :-*Werter Bhante
 

Johann

December 30, 2017, 10:04:46 AM
Njom Maria.
 

Johann

December 23, 2017, 01:56:19 PM
Funtioniert hier gut, Nyom Sophorn
 

Sophorn

December 23, 2017, 01:35:54 PM
 :-* :-* :-*
Karuna tvay bongkum
kana ist aufgefallen, dass die Bilder sich schlecht runterladen lassen. Hat das mit dem Server zu tun oder doch eine Störung hier in Ö? :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

December 23, 2017, 12:01:30 PM
មើលនិងចែករំលែកដោយខ្លួនអ្នកនៅពេលក្រោយ
http://sangham.net/index.php?topic=8304.new#new
 

Johann

December 23, 2017, 11:59:01 AM
បាន ណោម
 

Chanroth

December 23, 2017, 11:44:51 AM
 :-*តើព្រះតេជគុណបានទទួលEmailខ្ញុំកណាឬនៅ
 

Johann

December 23, 2017, 11:34:31 AM
ពិតប្រាកដបានបាត់ឬអត់? ហេតុអ្វីបានជាការកាន់និងការចិញ្ចឹម?
 

Johann

December 23, 2017, 11:29:29 AM
ប្រាកដ? ហើយវាយូរអង្វែង? ហើយ​ឥឡូវនេះ? មើលដោយអត់ធ្មត់!
 

Chanroth

December 23, 2017, 07:56:49 AM
អកុសល​បានកើតឡើងចំពោះខ្ញុំហើយ
 

Johann

December 22, 2017, 01:46:31 PM
Sadhu! Nyom Chanroth.
Mudita!
 

Chanroth

December 22, 2017, 03:01:50 AM
ខ្ញុំបាននាំ marvel មកដល់កំពង់ស្ពឺហើយ :-*
 

Chanroth

December 22, 2017, 02:59:59 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

December 18, 2017, 01:16:46 PM
Wird wohl schon sehr Weihnachtsstreß sein, oder Guest?
 

Johann

December 01, 2017, 11:19:47 AM
ចូលបន្ទប់ ព្រះត្រៃបិដកភាសាខ្មែរ . ផ្នែកខាងឆ្វេងមាន
 

Chanroth

December 01, 2017, 05:31:53 AM
ខ្ញុំកណារកមិនឃើញ កន្លែងមហាវគ្គទេសូមជួយប្រាប់កណាផង :-*
 

Chanroth

December 01, 2017, 05:29:34 AM
 :-* :-* :-* ខ្ញុំកណាសូមអគុណ
 

Johann

November 30, 2017, 10:49:09 AM
ពាក្យ "ញោម "។ ឣត្ថន័យ (អថន័យ!) មិនពិតប្រាកដ សំរាប់ អាត្ម។
 

Johann

November 30, 2017, 10:22:55 AM
Ñoma Chanroth.
 

Chanroth

November 30, 2017, 08:44:19 AM
ខ្ញុំព្រះករុណាសូមថ្វាយបង្គំមលោកម្ចាស់ Johann :-* :-* :-*
 

Chanroth

November 30, 2017, 08:40:12 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

November 26, 2017, 04:09:56 PM
Sadhu! Nyom Marcel.
 

Marcel

November 25, 2017, 10:59:50 PM
 :-* einen verdienstvollen uposatha allen  :-*
 

Marcel

November 15, 2017, 10:28:45 AM
 :-* ehrwürdiger samana johann  :-*
 

Johann

November 15, 2017, 10:22:52 AM
Nyom Marcel.
 

Sophorn

November 10, 2017, 09:42:54 PM
 :-* :-* :-*
Versucht mit laptop einzuloggen, aber die Updates ziehen sich dahin...
Möge der heutige Uposatha ein Tag der Erkenntnis und des Segens sein.
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Marcel

October 31, 2017, 05:36:49 AM
 :-*ehrwürdiger samana johann :-* ich hoffe, es geht ihnen gut und die dhamma-praxis schreitet vorran!
 

Johann

October 30, 2017, 01:48:18 AM
Nyom Sophorn.
 

Maria

October 25, 2017, 05:08:34 PM
Danke geht allen gut. Werther Bhante hoffentlich auch ?
 

Johann

October 25, 2017, 04:39:43 PM
Maria.
Familie und Freunden geht es gut? Nyom Maria selbst wohl auf, gesund?
 

Johann

October 19, 2017, 02:41:38 PM
Wenn jemand über das Layout des Entwurfes blicken möchte, ob es im eigenen Browser paßt und übersichtlich ist: Wisdom
 

Johann

October 16, 2017, 05:40:03 PM
Sokh chomreoun, Nyom. (Mag sukha sich für Nyom mehren). Thoamada (Dhammada - naturly, gewohnt). At mean ay pisech te (nichts besonders). Klach dukkh, klach sokh (wohl und weh wechseln sich ab). Nyom sokh sabay dea te? Sokh leumom dea te?
 

Marcel

October 16, 2017, 04:13:43 PM
 :-* ehrwürdiger samana johann! wie ist ihr befinden?  :-*
 

Marcel

October 07, 2017, 01:56:00 PM
 :-* :-* :-*

Show 50 latest
Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 13437
  • Total Topics: 2595
  • Online Today: 17
  • Online Ever: 90
  • (September 25, 2014, 05:26:29 AM)
Users Online
Users: 0
Guests: 11
Total: 11