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Author Topic: Meinungsverschiedenheit und Hierarchie [2]  (Read 874 times)

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Meinungsverschiedenheit und Hierarchie [2]
« on: April 09, 2018, 08:50:13 PM »

Johann   *

Weiterbearbeitung des Themas: Meinungsverschiedenheit und Hierarchie , aus April 2014.

Aramika   *

Dieses neue Thema (bzw. diese/r Beitrag/e) wurde  aus abgetrennten Beiträgen, ursprünglich in Sterilization - Castration, a matter of compassion or just unskilfull? , hinzugefügt. Für ev. ergänzende Informationen zur sehen Sie bitte das Ursprugsthema ein. Anumodana!
[Original post:]


It's really strange that you take issue with compulsory sterilization (either of humans or of animals).
You have always been a staunch proponent of the idea that people have no rights.
So why do you take issue with examples of when people (or animals) are treated as if they have no rights?

That's not the point, Nyom Binocular.
It is precisely the point.

Quote
My person wonders why Nyom stays that much on the surface here, does not let the matter penetrate to a more clearer stage.
Because I have no rights. See?


B.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 02:36:01 AM by Johann »

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Re: Meinungsverschiedenheit und Hierarchie
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2018, 09:07:46 PM »
Does that mean that it is thought that certain "Reichsärzte-Philosophie" found ground here? Or how should that be understood, this "I deprive you forced from your possibilities of ancestors, because they will probably estimated as worthless and killed (better they gain birth as a chicken...  *provocative*). Does not any being die? This approch if followed would be an argument for annihilationist to best destruct the whole possibilities for taking birth... so what's that, (to this amount, hopefully "just") eel-wriggling approach about?
This is what the State and Religion do to people anyway.

Everytime I see a truck that transports live animals to the slaughterhouse, I think of how the State and Religion do the same thing to people's spirit, and sometimes, to their bodies. The State and Religion want us to be obedient, docile, and not resist when they want to kill us.

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Re: Meinungsverschiedenheit und Hierarchie
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2018, 02:19:58 AM »
Oh yes... the bad "mighty"... is that all what can be effort by advices toward a better?

Then go on, do the villagers way of discussing about philosophy their situations and how all would be better without being guided. Don't worry, actually both, wordily and beyond advices have nearly extinct in this world and defilements run their causes. By their majority you already have all the ways previous desired.

The old Krabat traumatic ... the liberation of defilement.

Go on as usual. Nobody, and at least Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha would force you to anything. Just think in how far it is of use to feed on what is rejected. Like a child should think twice before talking about their parents.

It's just here in this case most ironically if looking at the masters ways, demands and forces in regard of his pets-folk.

A weel caught in hard to see, the matter "like the master, so his slaves".

Like years before, Nyom Binoclar did not step a little out of her victim-blaming.

Seeking nicca (control able) in what is anicca (not controlable) beings search for power and blame other that their thought contructs don't last. "Who ever does fulfill my desires, I will voye for, give into! Who ever does not blame me, shows 'metta' toward me, I devote!"

That's why masters love (are bound to) pets, pets their master... they provide each other with their desired they need to enjoy feeding on.Hard to give up ones desires, hard to gain thereby release, since a master teaching the abounding of desires would require to actually desire for release.

And then they sing their community gospels: Heartlessness (and a waving flag) - Herzlosigkeit (und die flatternde Fahne)

It really feels better, bring fruits, rather to live a consumer, demander live, to change to be a giver, a rich, one with no demand for his/her shares, toward those worthy to be given.

If fearing to lost house, home and entertainment, how could liberating ever be met, even in front?
« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 02:56:50 AM by Johann »
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

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Re: Meinungsverschiedenheit und Hierarchie [2]
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2018, 09:34:34 PM »
Oh yes... the bad "mighty"... is that all what can be effort by advices toward a better?

Then go on, do the villagers way of discussing about philosophy their situations and how all would be better without being guided. Don't worry, actually both, wordily and beyond advices have nearly extinct in this world and defilements run their causes. By their majority you already have all the ways previous desired.

The old Krabat traumatic ... the liberation of defilement.

Go on as usual. Nobody, and at least Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha would force you to anything. Just think in how far it is of use to feed on what is rejected. Like a child should think twice before talking about their parents.
Cynicism is the lowest form of wit.

It's not about not wanting to be guided.
It's about not wanting to be guided by people who despise those they guide.
Can you tell the difference?

It's about not wanting to settle for a religious life of quiet desperation.
It's about not wanting to settle for a religious life of quiet desperation.
It's about not wanting to settle for a religious life of pretenses and going through the motions. 



Quote
Hard to give up ones desires, hard to gain thereby release, since a master teaching the abounding of desires would require to actually desire for release.

It would really help if you'd work on your English, because the way you sometimes confuse words results in saying the opposite of what you probably intended.

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Re: Meinungsverschiedenheit und Hierarchie [2]
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2018, 06:06:58 AM »
Oh yes... the bad "mighty"... is that all what can be effort by advices toward a better?

Then go on, do the villagers way of discussing about philosophy their situations and how all would be better without being guided. Don't worry, actually both, wordily and beyond advices have nearly extinct in this world and defilements run their causes. By their majority you already have all the ways previous desired.

The old Krabat traumatic ... the liberation of defilement.

Go on as usual. Nobody, and at least Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha would force you to anything. Just think in how far it is of use to feed on what is rejected. Like a child should think twice before talking about their parents.
Cynicism is the lowest form of wit.
Not always, Nyom Binucolar, since a defiled mind would only act further, or release grasped, if it is provocated by what might seem to be out of greed, aversion or ignorance. Yet of course certain kind of belittling for the sake of belittling would be more then poor.
It's not about not wanting to be guided.
It's because people desire to be guided, don't let go of this kind of giver (guṇa , goodness) , that makes it impossible to gain liberating guidance. It's a matter of debt and to whom/what. And the lack of effort of keeping certain promises and to feear of disadvantage breaking up with other certain promises . Guided by Mara (the "guṇa") beings are bond. (It also might make the meaning of the "confusing part" at the end more clear.

It's about not wanting to be guided by people who despise those they guide.
Well, not having a little estimation for ones own defilements is necessary. If one finds them worthy to hold on, regards them as ones own, than there is less way. The resant talk [En] Hold on for All you're worth, Bhante Thanissaro might be useful here. If one would belittle ones good deeds, tendency, and potential, that is of course an enemy. But since it is not easy to take real goodness and enemy in disguise of goodness right, as long as not reached certain level of right goodness by one self, it's difficult and often a guess or ones upanissaya of what is met. Again, also here, giving at first place, makes things quick much more clear. Giving into the right, one derives there. Nothing to fear.

It's possible worthy to make clear, that those actually able to guide toward liberation, do not have and desire to guide or for such as students. They might do it out of compassion in a either formal or informal relation, if wished. Or out of certain duty or graditude toward people/deeds of real goodness, if possible.

Can you tell the difference?
Can, could Nyom take it?

It's about not wanting to settle for a religious life of quiet desperation.
It's about not wanting to settle for a religious life of quiet desperation.
How could religion, as long the "re" is not simple recidivism of the same old story of "and the it goes back..." a desperation. Of course it's required that one old and hold religion (re-bondgage), which always leads to desperation, has to be given up first. It's, how ever, to re-ligion with ones old merits (results of past good deeds, ones old friend) if coming across and build on it, nurish such inwardly and outwardly for increading upanissaya (strong condition, relation). At least the re-ligion for liberation is not for the sake of re-ligion, but for liberation of at least also from this bond.

It's about not wanting to settle for a religious life of pretenses and going through the motions. 
The/a pretenses is required, in the meaning of Vision, not real yet, and it's not possible to get a diploma is thinking "I just enter the school if I know all", eg. "being" before doing. Of course it whould be not good the pretenses something, but actually has other objectives, use it as means of livelihood, either cheating one self, others, or both. But again, the way (all ways) can not be walked without debts, e.g. certain imitation or what is called "rites and rituals" before they become naturally.

Quote
Hard to give up ones desires, hard to gain thereby release, since a master teaching the abounding of desires would require to actually desire for release.

It would really help if you'd work on your English, because the way you sometimes confuse words results in saying the opposite of what you probably intended.
My person guesses it has been explained, and not sure if it was primarily a language issue (the text may incl. still things which have been explained by Nyoms gift. My person didn't not "consume" it yet.)

In the spirit of this words, my person suggest Nyom to challenge Vaṇṇa macchariya , makes proper use by sharing the given by so many, let good selfestimate not be only a required joy but also ones governig principle and give others chance for proper same and identification by sharing her merits and brightness that comes from it. It's good if given Name and face is shared, in all aspects, and leave an old "religious life of pretenses and going through the motions" and foolish denying. Nyom @Morits , knowing its benefit good himself, might be also your good technical assistant in this regard. (A new "visitor 2" account is easy made, for one or another, wishing to make use, possible follow a left behind path like wise. That's the gift one walks forward, leaves behind, a track, gone by some with similar circumstances toward a vision, realized. E.g. ceratin faith that it is possible by human effort.)

Mudita
« Last Edit: April 11, 2018, 06:17:48 AM by Johann »
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Re: Meinungsverschiedenheit und Hierarchie [2]
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2018, 09:23:57 PM »
I'll tell you something about my past, to explain how I've arrived at the point I'm at currently. I was born and raised in a traditionally Catholic country. Due to legitimacy issues, I was not eligible for infant baptism, and so I grew up as the only non-Catholic among Catholics. I was considered a heathen, mocked, verbally, and also physically abused for not being a Catholic. But, as an outsider on the inside, I also got to see Catholicism from a different perspective. Apparently, they didn't really believe what they so staunchly professed to believe. Nobody actually seemed to take Catholic doctrine seriously. Few knew it, or held folk variations of it (such like that not being baptized as an infant, one is sure to go to hell forever). But when it came to me, it somehow mattered that I was not Catholic. For all the humility exercised and the humiliation endured in church, it seems they tried really hard to make up for it at home. Getting drunk, swearing, beating eachother and the animals. Cursing God, the Church, the pope, St. Mary. They all seemed very unhappy.

I'm not complaining or criticising them, I'm too pessimistic for that. I actually concluded that this religious pretense and duplicity, and being miserable is simply as good as life gets anyway, and that one should not hope for anything more. That life is drudgery.

When I came to Buddhism, I have seen so much of it again, just the names and some external details were different. And for a long time, I saw this as evidence that nothing better is possible anyway, and that I should see to it to internalize this, stop resisting, and become this way myself. Right now, I'm not sure what to think.


I apologize for staying distant, not getting a proper account, giving a name and picture. At this point, it doesn't seem right to go in that direction.


Thank you, you've been kind.


B.

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Re: Meinungsverschiedenheit und Hierarchie [2]
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2018, 01:34:01 AM »
Nothing to apologize Nyom Binocolar. It was/is just a suggestion for a possibility to chance, to a not so much just a life (existence, state in a certain world one take birth, a would one creates) of pretenses.

The replay how ever, may it be correted if wrong, is another "yes/no, but I, me, mine", claiming of rights and toward victim blaming. It's normal.

Maybe again as reminder generally if gain of friends or living bond in a ceratin society is wished. Giving veneration (to that what is worthy, or one likes to go for) is the readon for honor. Giving material things (this incl. such as knowledge and certain skills) is the reason to win friends.

Or better complete, all 4 Sangha vatthus, in it's highest again, as means for liberation.

Also, maybe again: Sozialisieren, mit wem und warum | Socialize with who, why | ធ្វើសង្គមមូបនីយកម្ម

Sozialisieren - សង្គម [Sangama]

to find that what might seek for.

Gain can not be obtained/accumulated by just seeking of what merits and where, are left, but always by giving/sacrifice.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 03:11:37 AM by Johann »
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Re: Meinungsverschiedenheit und Hierarchie [2]
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2018, 07:17:20 PM »
Bhante, thank you for your reply.


I wrote a reply, but decided it would not be appropriate to post it.

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Re: Meinungsverschiedenheit und Hierarchie [2]
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2018, 08:29:24 PM »
Bhante, thank you for your reply.


I wrote a reply, but decided it would not be appropriate to post it.


Edit:
Why do you say victim blaming ?
Or did you mean victim mentality ?

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Re: Meinungsverschiedenheit und Hierarchie [2]
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2018, 12:47:32 AM »
Attention, empathy and care by Nyom Binuclar is amazing.

May "she" be touched
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Tags:
 

Plauderbox

 

Johann

September 14, 2018, 07:11:41 AM
Und was ist die Grundlage für das Aukommen (paccaya) von Saddhā? Dukkha ist die Grundlage für das Aufkommen von Vertrauen (Händen und Füßen). Viel Dukkha! um Khema zu werden.
 

Johann

September 14, 2018, 07:02:53 AM
Eine Person ohne Vertrauen, Saddhaa, so sagen die Weisen, ist wie jemand ohne Hände und ohne Füße.

Also besser heute "unperfekt" beginnen, Anstelle perfekt wiedermal weiter nirgendwo Zuflucht zu erlangen. "Da ist nichts Gutes, es sei den man tut es."
 

Johann

September 11, 2018, 02:42:47 PM
Nyom Roman.
 

Johann

September 10, 2018, 03:39:32 PM
Ein Besucher. Wie geht es den Katzen?
 

Johann

September 08, 2018, 01:28:03 AM
Meister Hanspeter
 

Johann

September 05, 2018, 08:34:31 AM
At Buddhas times, so in times of Ajahn Mun, Upāli was the great supporter of the Kassapa, now the "Upalis" just make their livelihoods with it. Sad but true: or "nor for sure?"
 

Johann

September 05, 2018, 08:31:06 AM
It's like with Metallica- Fans and their producer, or to put it into Buddhas words: Uposatha of the cowboys.
 

Johann

September 05, 2018, 08:27:52 AM
Today many trade an nurish on the reputation of forest or kammaṭṭhāna - monks, making their livelihood with it by giving books, while wasting away their own goodness and possibilities actually destruct their upanissaya to it.
 

Johann

September 01, 2018, 07:16:53 PM
mit gahaṭṭha den Tag abschließend und segenreichen (verdienstvollen puñña) Sonntag allen anregend.
 

Johann

September 01, 2018, 09:43:50 AM
Was immer Mönch/Lehrer im Westen/moderenen Welt weilt, ist entweder Außenseiter oder (möglich ist) Arahant. Denken Sie nach.
 

Johann

September 01, 2018, 09:41:14 AM
Suchen Sie die Theras in traditionellem Land. Die Mitglieder anderer Sekten/"Buddhisten/moderne, arroganz/dünkel gefangen, sind verloren!
 

Johann

September 01, 2018, 09:38:20 AM
Das ist so klärend... ohne, wie die Westlichen Lehrer, jemals in alte Kultur und Sprache eingetaucht zu sein, vermag man nicht mal Pali richtig übersetzen, scjreiben, dann erst Buddhavaca verstehen.
 

Johann

August 30, 2018, 03:39:04 PM
Be prepared to die! Pets -life in a rich country is nice, but you would not understand anything: paṭisandhi (Com., Mahavihara)
 

Johann

August 30, 2018, 01:38:39 PM
 

Johann

August 26, 2018, 10:06:36 PM
Verdienstreichen Vollmond-Uposatha Ausklang allen.
 

Johann

August 22, 2018, 06:04:12 AM
"No mercy" :) soweit Trübungen nicht hindern, Nyom Moritz und Mudita.
 

Moritz

August 22, 2018, 05:07:08 AM
Ich verabschiede mich. Viele Dinge zu ordnen. _/\_
 

Moritz

August 22, 2018, 04:50:41 AM
 _/\_
Gut zu hören, auch wenn sicher relativ.
Mögen Bhante genug Schonung finden. _/\_
 

Johann

August 22, 2018, 04:37:12 AM
Gegenüber dem "Sterben" gestern, "pumperlg'sund" auf Wienerisch. Sadhu der Nachfrage, Nyom Moritz.
 

Moritz

August 22, 2018, 04:10:10 AM
Vandami, Bhante _/\_
Wie geht es Ihnen körperlich?
 

Johann

August 17, 2018, 02:21:49 AM
Mein's oder nicht meines, (Gier) Liebe oder Hass... Da sind wenige, die Blumen im Wald stehen lassen und Insekten nicht töten, weder bleiben noch gehen, und alles geben aus Wohlwollen und Mitgefühl, Weisheit gewonnen, Geiz besiegt und Güte ohne zu vereinnahmen. Wie konnten andere diese je sehen,
 

Johann

August 13, 2018, 05:13:25 AM
Händler mögen es nicht sich für passendes Mudita hinzugeben, und würden nur in Lob über deren Handelsware sprechen. Warum Leute Lobenswertes nicht loben: apacayana eine er 12 Personen: "...ein Geschäftsmann, sich seiner Schuld zum Arbeiten für seinen Vorteil verschrieben."
 

Johann

August 11, 2018, 12:06:41 AM
Erfreuenden und klärenden Neumond-Uposatha, den Ehrw. Herren, Anhängern und Interessierten.
 

Johann

August 10, 2018, 08:31:57 PM
Sokh chomreoun Nyom. Möge sich Sukha zur Vollständigkeit mehren.
 

Moritz

August 10, 2018, 06:20:44 PM
Ich muss wieder an die Arbeit. Einen angenehmen Abend, Bhante _/\_
 

Johann

August 10, 2018, 05:25:27 PM
Nyom Moritz.

Nyom Mohan.
 

Moritz

August 10, 2018, 05:18:04 PM
Guten Abend, Bhante _/\_
 

Mohan Gnanathilake

August 05, 2018, 12:58:01 PM
Sehr ehrwürdiger Samanera Johann,

ich habe der Gruppe „ Anussavika“ beigetreten.

Dhamma Grüβe an Sie aus Sri Lanka!
 

Johann

July 31, 2018, 04:38:15 PM
Den Weg kennend, im Vertrauen jenen folgen ihn gehend, gegangen, sich dann ausschließlich um die Enihsltung des Weges kümmer, gelangt man nach oben und hinaus. So, in dieser Weise, ist "der Weh ist das Ziel zu verstehen.
 

Johann

July 31, 2018, 04:33:35 PM
Mögen alles stets vorrangig auf die Qualitäten von Handlungen und Hingaben, die Ursachen für Früchte achten und nicht wie dumme gewöhnliche Leute, Zeile fixieren und danach gfreifen, die Ursachen damit fehlen, nie zu Früchten kommend, falscher Mitteln für Wirkung bedient.

Mudita
 

Johann

July 28, 2018, 07:38:00 AM
on how the blessed hobby, the liberating anime, the sublime gotchi decays for one and at a certain point for all: Dhamma-Gotchi and only fake last for some times lasting till also the mythos decays.
 

Johann

July 26, 2018, 01:50:45 PM
Morgen, Vollmond vor dem Vassa seiend, mag jener, der nicht zu sehr verstrickt in Fehlinvestitionen, die Gelegenheit für Lösung von Verstrickungen zu nützen vermögen.
 

Johann

July 26, 2018, 01:50:20 PM
Morgen, Vollmond vor dem Vassa seiend, mag jener, der nicht zu sehr verstrickt in Fehlinvestitionen, die Gelegenheit für Lösung von Verstrickungen zu nützen vermögen.
 

Roman

July 22, 2018, 08:01:16 PM
Danke für die Infos
und eine friedliche Nacht
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 06:27:44 PM
Atma, zieht sich nun zurück, wieder spät geworden, Nyom. Ruhe Freude und Geduld beim ungestörten Erkunden und Gelegenheiten, Gegeben-heiten, nutzen.
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 03:13:38 PM
Atma wird das Gespräch nun versuchen in Passendes Thema im Forum zu kopieren.
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 03:12:06 PM
In Sorge Unmut ob der Situation, gänzlich anders Vorgestellt,  zu mehren, hatte Johann nicht nach Marcel gefragt. Doch hätte er, würde er er erwähnen, wenn da dringliches und triftige Sorge um Marcel wäre. Gute Übung und Lehre, alles in allem, für viele, wenn danach ausgerichtet. Also einfach
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 03:06:12 PM
Bhante Indannano, Johann angerufen habend, kurz, vor Tagen, unterrichtet geworden das Johann am Weg in die Hauptstadt sein, hatte sich sehr zurückhaltend und kurz gehalten. Wohl nicht mit den weltlichen Hindernissen all zu Erfreut und noch ungelößt.
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 03:03:21 PM
Im Verwenden des Forums, überall, keine Sorge irgendwo was Falsch zu machen, ist es Stressfreier und Langlebiger, auch für andere, als Geschenk, Nyom Roman. Woimmer.
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 03:00:55 PM
Nyom kam Nyom als "füherer Elternteil/Verwandter" betrachten. Hie etwas Technischer: ញោម "Nyom", ñoma - Ursprung bzw. Bedeutung
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 02:56:10 PM
Wenn Sie sich freimachen können, besuchen Sie ihn, und machen Sie Entdeckungsreise in unbekannter Welt, während ihm vielleich Weltliches abnehmen könnend.
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 02:53:55 PM
mit Freude tun oder Geben mag, wo immer, ist vorallem für Roman glücksverheißend, neben Moraluscher Stange zum Glück für ihn haltend.
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 02:51:42 PM
Mag er sicher Abstand von Unsicherm Gewinnen. Was immer Roman sich inspiriet fühlt, geschicktes, niemanden Verletzendes zu geben, zu tun, gar vielleicht mehr an jemand erhabener als "nur" eigener Bruder denkend,
 

Roman

July 22, 2018, 02:49:04 PM
  Und was bedeutet Nyom...Ich habe versucht zu übersetzen.  Jedoch weiß ich nicht ob der Bezug richtig ist
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 02:48:39 PM
Johann hat ihn schon länger nicht persönlich getroffen, ob in Buchstaben, am Ohr oder mit mehr Sinnen. Gestern war er wohl online hier. Denke er ist sehr vertieft in der Praxis und hat eigentlich wenig Interesse sich um Äußerses zu kümmern.
 

Roman

July 22, 2018, 02:46:46 PM
Beim lesen von den Beiträgen fällt es mir noch bißchen schwer alles zu verstehen...Ich frage mich gerade wer Atma ist..Und moritz bist du für die Internetseite zuständig?  
 

Roman

July 22, 2018, 02:43:49 PM
Hallo,

Ich lese viel hier und wollte mich mal erkundigen wie es mit Marcel so steht..Hatte letzte Woche mit ihm gesprochen und es geht ihm gut! Hatte Johann geschrieben wie ich helfen kann..
 

Johann

July 22, 2018, 02:41:15 PM
Nyom Roman
 

Sophorn

July 20, 2018, 05:09:54 AM
Sadhu. Möge es ein verdienstvolller Tag sein!
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

July 20, 2018, 03:06:04 AM
Allen einen verdienstvollen Silatag, der letzte vor dem Antritt der Regenrückzugszeit.

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