* * * *

Tipitaka Khmer

 Please feel welcome to join the transcription project of the Tipitaka translation in khmer, and share one of your favorite Sutta or more. Simply click here or visit the Forum: 

Search ATI on ZzE

Zugang zur Einsicht - Schriften aus der Theravada Tradition



Access to Insight / Zugang zur Einsicht: Dhamma-Suche auf mehr als 4000 Webseiten (deutsch / english) - ohne zu googeln, andere Ressourcen zu nehmen, weltliche Verpflichtungen einzugehen. Sie sind für den Zugang zur Einsicht herzlich eingeladen diese Möglichkeit zu nutzen. (Info)

Random Sutta
Random Article
Random Jataka

Zufälliges Sutta
Zufälliger Artikel
Zufälliges Jataka


Arbeits/Work Forum ZzE

"Dhammatalks.org":
[logo dhammatalks.org]
Random Talk
[pic 30]

Recent Topics

[Today at 08:18:11 AM]

[Today at 07:30:51 AM]

[Today at 06:16:20 AM]

[January 18, 2018, 02:18:09 PM]

[January 18, 2018, 10:04:23 AM]

[January 18, 2018, 06:13:18 AM]

[January 18, 2018, 05:32:04 AM]

[January 18, 2018, 04:53:22 AM]

[January 18, 2018, 01:57:02 AM]

[January 15, 2018, 09:15:20 PM]

[January 14, 2018, 09:56:25 AM]

[January 13, 2018, 07:15:25 PM]

[January 13, 2018, 05:40:29 PM]

[January 13, 2018, 05:24:49 PM]

[January 13, 2018, 04:42:42 PM]

[January 13, 2018, 11:50:24 AM]

[January 12, 2018, 06:12:47 PM]

[January 12, 2018, 02:57:17 PM]

[January 12, 2018, 11:46:06 AM]

[January 09, 2018, 07:32:38 PM]

[January 09, 2018, 01:20:56 PM]

[January 09, 2018, 11:15:49 AM]

[January 09, 2018, 07:35:21 AM]

[January 09, 2018, 07:30:04 AM]

[January 09, 2018, 05:11:20 AM]

[January 09, 2018, 05:09:36 AM]

[January 09, 2018, 03:08:52 AM]

[January 09, 2018, 01:29:24 AM]

[January 08, 2018, 02:39:29 PM]

[January 07, 2018, 03:55:15 AM]

[January 05, 2018, 07:17:28 AM]

[January 04, 2018, 12:49:58 PM]

[January 03, 2018, 12:56:52 PM]

[January 03, 2018, 12:05:50 PM]

[January 01, 2018, 02:05:13 PM]

[January 01, 2018, 12:52:24 PM]

[January 01, 2018, 10:57:04 AM]

[January 01, 2018, 10:16:16 AM]

[January 01, 2018, 10:12:54 AM]

[January 01, 2018, 03:51:14 AM]

[December 31, 2017, 04:34:36 PM]

[December 31, 2017, 08:38:00 AM]

[December 31, 2017, 05:33:43 AM]

[December 31, 2017, 04:44:17 AM]

[December 30, 2017, 10:20:20 AM]

[December 30, 2017, 09:47:04 AM]

[December 29, 2017, 03:25:41 PM]

[December 29, 2017, 02:43:34 PM]

[December 28, 2017, 02:58:21 PM]

[December 28, 2017, 01:23:57 PM]
[Buddha]

Author Topic: [Q&A] What can (should) be done about fake monks?  (Read 150 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Johann

  • Samanera
  • Very Engaged Member
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +320/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
[Q&A] What can (should) be done about fake monks?
« on: December 05, 2017, 11:50:31 AM »

[Q&A] What can (should) be done about fake monks?

Quote from: asked by Anthony, on BSE
What can be done about fake monks?

In the city where i live (Toronto, although this is an issue in many cities around the world), there are people dressed as monks soliciting others on the street for donations. In return, various good luck charms are offered.

The fake monks speak little English, and will try to justify their begging with the claim that donations are for building a temple back home.

Is there anything I can or should do about this?

Are these fake monks giving Buddhism a bad name, or at least obscuring Buddhism's true message?

Are the fake monks doing an ironic good by giving people the chance to practice generosity?

Venerable members of the Sangha,
walking in front Fellows in leading the holly life.

  _/\_  _/\_  _/\_

In Respect of the Triple Gems, Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, in Respect of the Elders of the community  _/\_ , my person tries to answer this question. Please, may all knowledgeable Venerables and Dhammika, out of compassion, correct my person, if something is not correct and fill also graps, if something is missing.

Valued Upasaka, Upasika, Aramika(inis),
dear Readers and Visitors,

 *sgift*

(This is a maybe modified and expanded answer of the "original" that can be found here .)

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -



It's maybe good to distinguish between a "monk not sticking with his rules" or a "monk - 'living by theft'" and a recluse/brahman of other traditions.

The first means that he has gained the going forth and possible acceptance by the Sangha of Buddhas disciples but lives with wrong livelihood, bad means, corrupt.

The second means that one "for the sake of his belly" (livelihood, wordily gains) uses the appearance and declatation of being an accepted (ordained) Bhikkhu/Bhikkhuni by the Sangha of the Buddha.

The last, someone who might beg and "just" look like or be assumed by people being a Bhikkhu, would actually not allow to call him "fake monk" in the context here. Hegshe might be "just" a beggar of other sects.

Giving someone in need or to come after someones request is very seldom wrong. If wishing to gain possible high fruits by benefiting the Sangha, Novices but also lay people "working" for them, good to simply ask if not willing to sacrify to secterians and others.

To gain the most of ones sacrifies, itjs of course from use to be well informed but also not foolish biased at the same time.

And it's good to know that if one has not gained certain level on sainthood, one, even if correct accepted, is a "fake monk" (eg. an outsider) to that extent. And it could be that someone appearing totally fakish, even unseemingly, one might be actually an insider (one of the Sangha in ideal therms).

So one should be carefull in regard of such and prove well, not only in regard of Vinaya but also in regard of Dhamma.

Generally it is to say that neither a correct good member of the monastic Sangha nor a Novice nor a recluse of certain sainthood would beg for money, take and make use of it. So such can not be regarded as recluse (monk) but has to be seen as a householder. Whether one begs on the street or behind his desktop for his fondings, undertakings, asks, takes takes use and controll over money (means of exchange and trade)... such should be regarded as householder even if a well known and public regarded monk (a fake to that extent).

Yet, if one is clear about that, there is nothing bad in fonding or helping certain householder undertakings, depending of what one feels inspired to give and as the Buddha rejected as people told "the Buddha says, one should give only to his disciples":

 

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

"Master Gotama, I have heard that 'Gotama the contemplative says this: "Only to me should a gift be given, and not to others. Only to my disciples should a gift be given, and not to others. Only what is given to me bears great fruit, and not what is given to others. Only what is given to my disciples bears great fruit, and not what is given to the disciples of others."'...
Quote from: AN 3.57

How ever, since the topic is not so easy and good and benefical giving requires discernment, it's good to learn but mostly simply practice where ever there is a chance and proper time .

Possible helpful additions can be found here:

My person came even accross well-known Bhikkhus who puplic encouraged people to call even police. Such is not the way of a not-fake monk and given that in modern world often highest livelihood is not only regarded as not welcome but even against law on certain places, in certain countries, what if not just cutting oneself off of possibilities to make merits in approaching issues in foolish and biased ways, whould one gain?

Just more of the obstacle to liberation: Stinginess , or?

So, in relation of proper time as well:

 

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa

Not to contemplatives,
  to brahmans,
  to the miserable,
  nor to the homeless
  does he share what he's gained:
      food,
      drinks,
      nourishment.
  He, that lowest of people,
      is called a cloud with no rain.

To some he gives,
  to others he doesn't:
      the intelligent call him
      one who rains locally.

A person responsive to requests,
  sympathetic to all beings,
  delighting in distributing alms:
      "Give to them!
      Give!"
      he says.
  As a cloud — resounding, thundering — rains,
      filling with water, drenching
      the plateaus & gullies:
          a person like this
          is like that.
  Having rightly amassed
  wealth attained through initiative,
  he satisfies fully with food & drink
  those fallen into
  the homeless state.
Quote from: iti

So best is always to either (if able) judge ones mind and own defilements or stick simply with the advices of the wise.

Generally, by using the therm "fake" or by disregarding improper, uninformed (not to speak about out of greed, aversion or not-knowing) recluses or others one might remember this even: Young Now it's not wrong but even good to dispraise of what should be rebuked, after good prove and knowing for sure and if one has the possibility in regard of his status and independency.

Anumodana!
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Online Johann

  • Samanera
  • Very Engaged Member
  • *
  • Sadhu! or +320/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Date of ordination/Datum der Ordination.: 20140527
Re: [Q&A] What can (should) be done about fake monks?
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2017, 09:20:57 AM »
In regard of possible "Fake monks", someone in Affiliation Through Theft , it is for him who lives in that way, "for the sake of comfortable life" a very serious thing, since by theft he would cut himself of to get a member of the Sangha in this very live.

So there is a lot of reason to have compassion if meeting someone like that, rather to be even jealous and act unwholesome on that.

One does good to never take what is not really given by the owner otherwise it can be that one derives one self from prosperity and wealth, in wordly meaning as well as beyond.

So to take away something even if it has been stolen, from a thief, counts as taking what is not given as well.

It would be/is a transgression for a Bhikkhu to call for police and possible case even a "fake monk" to lose what he regards as his possession.

Of how the Sangha may act on someone living be theft in Affiliation is given by the rule:

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

“A person in affiliation through theft, if unaccepted, is not to be given Acceptance. If accepted, he is to be expelled.

This can be applied as well for certain sects or groups as well, living in ways not having gained by themselves or not given the heritage of the Noble Ones and use it's means for their objectives in the world.

- Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa -

"One who has gone over (while a monk) to another religion, if unaccepted, is not to be given Acceptance. If accepted, he is to be expelled.”
This post and Content has come to be by Dhamma-Dana and so is given as it       Dhamma-Dana: Johann

Tags:
 
18 Guests, 1 User
Johann
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
January 19, 2018, 08:24:11 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Talkbox

 

Moritz

Today at 05:35:24 AM
_/\_ Namasakara, Bhante
_/\_
 

Johann

January 18, 2018, 05:06:38 AM
..wäre es nicht passend "Gestehen" anzunehmen, selbes Ups habend. Jedoch ist es in dem Fall ja noch gut gegangen und daher Grund für gemeinsames "gerade noch" und Mudita. Gut das gewisse Verbindungen und Wahrnehmen nicht abreißt (reißen kann) und absehbar passiert.
 

Johann

January 18, 2018, 05:02:41 AM
Atma war, aus irgend einem Grund, fest überzeugt, das gestern Uposatha sein sollte, trotzdem er am Almosengang gar Laien in Wat ziehen sah (denkend, gut auch heute an punna teilzunehmen). Selbigem Thema gegegnend, sah Atma nach und mußte feststellen, das bereits der 16. war. So zu diesem Ausmaß (
 

Moritz

January 17, 2018, 10:36:54 PM
 

Johann

January 17, 2018, 01:08:49 PM
Und gestern? Übersehen, oder verdienstvoll?
 

Sophorn

January 09, 2018, 07:48:37 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
sadhu. anumodana.
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

January 09, 2018, 01:51:15 AM
Sadhu! Anumodana!
 

Marcel

January 09, 2018, 01:39:30 AM
 :-*allen ein verdienstvollen uposatha :-*
 

Johann

January 03, 2018, 11:42:34 AM
ធម្មតា ញោម។ Dhammatā, Ñoma.
 

Marcel

January 03, 2018, 10:39:23 AM
 :-* បាទ :-*  អរគុណ :-*  ខ្ញុំសុខសបាយជាទទអរគុណ  :-* ehrwürdiger bhante, ja mir geht es gut! ich hab mich er-holt!  wie geht es ihnen?  :-*
 

Johann

January 03, 2018, 10:30:20 AM
Marcel. Er- oder besser vielleicht Entholt und Verdaut?
 

Marcel

January 03, 2018, 10:24:49 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Chanroth

January 02, 2018, 04:59:02 AM
សាធុសាធុ :-*
 

Johann

January 01, 2018, 02:05:59 PM
Sokh chomreuon, Nyom.
 

Chanroth

January 01, 2018, 12:36:03 PM
 :-* :-* :-*Karuna tvay bongkum
 

Johann

January 01, 2018, 12:42:33 AM
Einen freidvollen und erkenntnisreichen Vollmond Uposatha, am ersten Tag des Jahres.
 

Johann

December 31, 2017, 05:59:48 PM
Also hier spricht man nun schon von Wiedergeburt 2018.
 

Maria

December 30, 2017, 10:19:57 AM
Danke, wird weitergegeben und ebenfalls die besten Wünsche retour
 

Johann

December 30, 2017, 10:12:19 AM
Beste Wünsche und Grüße in den Kreis der Familien, Freunde und Lieben und möge man viel Zeit mit den Älteren, guten Gönnern und Weisen verbringen, sich nicht zu sehr Panalem hingeben.
 

Maria

December 30, 2017, 10:09:05 AM
Zeichen davor ist leider unpassend.
 

Maria

December 30, 2017, 10:05:41 AM
 :-*Werter Bhante
 

Johann

December 30, 2017, 10:04:46 AM
Njom Maria.
 

Johann

December 23, 2017, 01:56:19 PM
Funtioniert hier gut, Nyom Sophorn
 

Sophorn

December 23, 2017, 01:35:54 PM
 :-* :-* :-*
Karuna tvay bongkum
kana ist aufgefallen, dass die Bilder sich schlecht runterladen lassen. Hat das mit dem Server zu tun oder doch eine Störung hier in Ö? :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

December 23, 2017, 12:01:30 PM
មើលនិងចែករំលែកដោយខ្លួនអ្នកនៅពេលក្រោយ
http://sangham.net/index.php?topic=8304.new#new
 

Johann

December 23, 2017, 11:59:01 AM
បាន ណោម
 

Chanroth

December 23, 2017, 11:44:51 AM
 :-*តើព្រះតេជគុណបានទទួលEmailខ្ញុំកណាឬនៅ
 

Johann

December 23, 2017, 11:34:31 AM
ពិតប្រាកដបានបាត់ឬអត់? ហេតុអ្វីបានជាការកាន់និងការចិញ្ចឹម?
 

Johann

December 23, 2017, 11:29:29 AM
ប្រាកដ? ហើយវាយូរអង្វែង? ហើយ​ឥឡូវនេះ? មើលដោយអត់ធ្មត់!
 

Chanroth

December 23, 2017, 07:56:49 AM
អកុសល​បានកើតឡើងចំពោះខ្ញុំហើយ
 

Johann

December 22, 2017, 01:46:31 PM
Sadhu! Nyom Chanroth.
Mudita!
 

Chanroth

December 22, 2017, 03:01:50 AM
ខ្ញុំបាននាំ marvel មកដល់កំពង់ស្ពឺហើយ :-*
 

Chanroth

December 22, 2017, 02:59:59 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

December 18, 2017, 01:16:46 PM
Wird wohl schon sehr Weihnachtsstreß sein, oder Guest?
 

Johann

December 01, 2017, 11:19:47 AM
ចូលបន្ទប់ ព្រះត្រៃបិដកភាសាខ្មែរ . ផ្នែកខាងឆ្វេងមាន
 

Chanroth

December 01, 2017, 05:31:53 AM
ខ្ញុំកណារកមិនឃើញ កន្លែងមហាវគ្គទេសូមជួយប្រាប់កណាផង :-*
 

Chanroth

December 01, 2017, 05:29:34 AM
 :-* :-* :-* ខ្ញុំកណាសូមអគុណ
 

Johann

November 30, 2017, 10:49:09 AM
ពាក្យ "ញោម "។ ឣត្ថន័យ (អថន័យ!) មិនពិតប្រាកដ សំរាប់ អាត្ម។
 

Johann

November 30, 2017, 10:22:55 AM
Ñoma Chanroth.
 

Chanroth

November 30, 2017, 08:44:19 AM
ខ្ញុំព្រះករុណាសូមថ្វាយបង្គំមលោកម្ចាស់ Johann :-* :-* :-*
 

Chanroth

November 30, 2017, 08:40:12 AM
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Johann

November 26, 2017, 04:09:56 PM
Sadhu! Nyom Marcel.
 

Marcel

November 25, 2017, 10:59:50 PM
 :-* einen verdienstvollen uposatha allen  :-*
 

Marcel

November 15, 2017, 10:28:45 AM
 :-* ehrwürdiger samana johann  :-*
 

Johann

November 15, 2017, 10:22:52 AM
Nyom Marcel.
 

Sophorn

November 10, 2017, 09:42:54 PM
 :-* :-* :-*
Versucht mit laptop einzuloggen, aber die Updates ziehen sich dahin...
Möge der heutige Uposatha ein Tag der Erkenntnis und des Segens sein.
 :-* :-* :-*
 

Marcel

October 31, 2017, 05:36:49 AM
 :-*ehrwürdiger samana johann :-* ich hoffe, es geht ihnen gut und die dhamma-praxis schreitet vorran!
 

Johann

October 30, 2017, 01:48:18 AM
Nyom Sophorn.
 

Maria

October 25, 2017, 05:08:34 PM
Danke geht allen gut. Werther Bhante hoffentlich auch ?
 

Johann

October 25, 2017, 04:39:43 PM
Maria.
Familie und Freunden geht es gut? Nyom Maria selbst wohl auf, gesund?

Show 50 latest
Members
  • Total Members: 293
  • Latest: Aushan
Stats
  • Total Posts: 13451
  • Total Topics: 2599
  • Online Today: 19
  • Online Ever: 90
  • (September 25, 2014, 05:26:29 AM)
Users Online
Users: 1
Guests: 18
Total: 19